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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Awesome
- Start date
Epic Problem
Footballguy
A forewarning: You might want to read what's in the spoiler tag slowly. Also don't hesitate to ask questions if its too much to comprehend
I was talking about your post, not SWC's
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Dedfin
Footballguy
SWC is the most good natured person on this boored. If you drew his ire, you messed up and should re-approach your posts because it happens very rarely.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/11/nfl-texans-colin-kaepernick-deshaun-watson-injury
The Texans have no excuse for passing on Colin Kaepernick after Deshaun Watson's injury
Unlike the NFL teams who have passed on him over the last few months, the Texans have no excuse for not signing Colin Kaepernick. Not after their star rookie Deshaun Watson went down with a torn ACL during Thursday’s practice. [...]
With $13 million in cap space, the Texans have enough money to get a deal done. The offense Bill O’Brien has put together for his rookie is tailor-made for Kaepernick, whom O’Brien referred to as “a good football player” back in March; in fact, the former 49ers quarterback may be better suited to run the offense than Watson is. The fit is perfect.
And Houston doesn’t have any other options…
Tom Savage has already proven incapable of leading the Texans offense, even if he knows the playbook. O’Brien only needed to see 30 minutes of Savage to pull the plug. Brandon Weeden, who also knows the offense having spent the preseason with Houston, is already on a roster. Brian Hoyer, also a former Texan, was snapped up by the Patriots as soon as the 49ers released him earlier this week. T.J. Yates has played for O’Brien but has no place on an NFL roster. The trade deadline has passed, so Houston can’t deal for a quarterback.
Kaepernick is not only the right choice. He’s really the only choice. [...]
The Texans have led the league in scoring since Watson took over the starting job. That success can be attributed to O’Brien’s tinkering with the offense. Houston simplified its read in the passing games and made up for that simplicity by featuring zone read runs and play-action based on college-style fakes in the backfield to confuse defenses. The result was a high-powered offense that didn’t require much thinking for the quarterback after the snap.
Kaepernick is a more advanced version of Watson at this point. Both have similar weaknesses — spotty accuracy and questionable pocket presence — and similar strengths, but Kaepernick has a better arm and is more adept at reading defenses thanks to more experience in a pro style offense. That’s not to say the Texans — or any team — would want Kaepernick over Watson. The latter is much younger and has an infinitely higher ceiling; but, as of right now, the veteran is probably the better quarterback.
The comparison is pointless because the Texans aren’t choosing between Watson and Kaepernick; they’re choosing between Kaepernick and Savage. And if they decide to go with the latter, it will require a change to the team’s current offense, which has worked so well with Watson running it. [...]
This offense that has torn up defenses over the last seven games was designed for a player of Kaepernick’s ability. Adjusting it for a immobile quarterback like Savage would mean returning to what the Texans were running before Watson entered the lineup, which, as we’ve seen over the last few years, isn’t very effective with a dud behind center. Houston ranked 30th in passing DVOA in 2016 with the same weapons and a quarterback who beat Savage out for the starting job (Brock Osweiler). [...]
Houston has two choices: Throw away a season that could end in the playoffs just to avoid upsetting some of its fans OR take a chance on Kaepernick and try to build on the momentum Watson’s presence created over the last two months.
With a battered defense, Houston isn’t going to win games averaging 20 points. It needs to sustain the torrid pace the offense set behind Watson in order to make a postseason run. Kaepernick is the Texans’ only hope of doing so.
The Texans have no excuse for passing on Colin Kaepernick after Deshaun Watson's injury
Unlike the NFL teams who have passed on him over the last few months, the Texans have no excuse for not signing Colin Kaepernick. Not after their star rookie Deshaun Watson went down with a torn ACL during Thursday’s practice. [...]
With $13 million in cap space, the Texans have enough money to get a deal done. The offense Bill O’Brien has put together for his rookie is tailor-made for Kaepernick, whom O’Brien referred to as “a good football player” back in March; in fact, the former 49ers quarterback may be better suited to run the offense than Watson is. The fit is perfect.
And Houston doesn’t have any other options…
Tom Savage has already proven incapable of leading the Texans offense, even if he knows the playbook. O’Brien only needed to see 30 minutes of Savage to pull the plug. Brandon Weeden, who also knows the offense having spent the preseason with Houston, is already on a roster. Brian Hoyer, also a former Texan, was snapped up by the Patriots as soon as the 49ers released him earlier this week. T.J. Yates has played for O’Brien but has no place on an NFL roster. The trade deadline has passed, so Houston can’t deal for a quarterback.
Kaepernick is not only the right choice. He’s really the only choice. [...]
The Texans have led the league in scoring since Watson took over the starting job. That success can be attributed to O’Brien’s tinkering with the offense. Houston simplified its read in the passing games and made up for that simplicity by featuring zone read runs and play-action based on college-style fakes in the backfield to confuse defenses. The result was a high-powered offense that didn’t require much thinking for the quarterback after the snap.
Kaepernick is a more advanced version of Watson at this point. Both have similar weaknesses — spotty accuracy and questionable pocket presence — and similar strengths, but Kaepernick has a better arm and is more adept at reading defenses thanks to more experience in a pro style offense. That’s not to say the Texans — or any team — would want Kaepernick over Watson. The latter is much younger and has an infinitely higher ceiling; but, as of right now, the veteran is probably the better quarterback.
The comparison is pointless because the Texans aren’t choosing between Watson and Kaepernick; they’re choosing between Kaepernick and Savage. And if they decide to go with the latter, it will require a change to the team’s current offense, which has worked so well with Watson running it. [...]
This offense that has torn up defenses over the last seven games was designed for a player of Kaepernick’s ability. Adjusting it for a immobile quarterback like Savage would mean returning to what the Texans were running before Watson entered the lineup, which, as we’ve seen over the last few years, isn’t very effective with a dud behind center. Houston ranked 30th in passing DVOA in 2016 with the same weapons and a quarterback who beat Savage out for the starting job (Brock Osweiler). [...]
Houston has two choices: Throw away a season that could end in the playoffs just to avoid upsetting some of its fans OR take a chance on Kaepernick and try to build on the momentum Watson’s presence created over the last two months.
With a battered defense, Houston isn’t going to win games averaging 20 points. It needs to sustain the torrid pace the offense set behind Watson in order to make a postseason run. Kaepernick is the Texans’ only hope of doing so.
Epic Problem
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
As proven by the 16, 17, 23, 20, 17, 24, 6, 17, 13, 22, and 23 points he led his team to last season. Well done here.
Doug B
Footballguy
Cake racks, a big cookie sheet underneath to catch drippings, and your oven for the win.Courtjester said:
Shrimp cooks so fast, I think the bacon has to be half-cooked (browning at the edges, but still pliable) and cooled before rolling around the shrimp and finishing it up in the oven. Add a water chestnut and you'd have "Seafood Rumaki".
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
Looking at the glass being half empty with a Kaep signing in Houston:
https://theundefeated.com/features/why-colin-kaepernick-is-better-off-not-signing-with-texans/
Why Colin Kaepernick is better off not signing with Texans
Replacing rookie Deshaun Watson in the middle of the season would not benefit the free-agent QB
[...]
There’s precedence for quarterbacks being brought in at the last minute and immediately being inserted into the offense. Neither the quarterbacks nor the teams have fared all that well.
Jacoby Brissett, traded from the New England Patriots to the Colts just two weeks before the 2017 season, started his first game in Week 2 and has led the Colts to a 2-6 record with a 36.2 QBR, ranked 25th of 32 eligible passers. Jay Cutler signed with the Miami Dolphins in August, and while Miami is 4-2 in games Cutler has started, he’s averaging an anemic 5.5 yards per attempt, the third-lowest rate in the league, and managed just 25 points the first three weeks, six of which were a garbage-time touchdown against the Jets in Week 2 to avoid a shutout. The Minnesota Vikings started 5-0 after acquiring Sam Bradford seven days before Week 1 of the 2016 season, but the offense ended up one of the lowest-rated units in the league (just 20.4 points per game despite Bradford breaking the all-time completion percentage record) and finished 8-8 behind a defense ranked ninth in DVOA. The most notorious example of a last-minute quarterback acquisition was the same Vikings signing Josh Freeman during the team’s bye week of the 2013 season. In his lone start for Minnesota, Freeman completed just 37.7 percent of his 53 passes for zero touchdowns and an interception. Freeman wouldn’t play another NFL down until two seasons later, when he signed and started for the Colts in the same week, struggling in his lone appearance.
So while Kaepernick may be the best option for a Texans team that is still in contention in its division and has the supporting cast to make a playoff push, it’s not necessarily the right option. Outside of dealing with an owner, and fan base, who would likely be highly critical of him, Kaepernick would have to balance learning a new offense in a limited time period with playing in the shadow of a beloved rookie who gave an entire city playoff hopes. In theory, for Kaepernick to succeed in Houston, he would need to go undefeated with zero interceptions and a perfect passer rating the remaining nine games, an almost impossible task.
Anything short of that would be a failure.
https://theundefeated.com/features/why-colin-kaepernick-is-better-off-not-signing-with-texans/
Why Colin Kaepernick is better off not signing with Texans
Replacing rookie Deshaun Watson in the middle of the season would not benefit the free-agent QB
[...]
There’s precedence for quarterbacks being brought in at the last minute and immediately being inserted into the offense. Neither the quarterbacks nor the teams have fared all that well.
Jacoby Brissett, traded from the New England Patriots to the Colts just two weeks before the 2017 season, started his first game in Week 2 and has led the Colts to a 2-6 record with a 36.2 QBR, ranked 25th of 32 eligible passers. Jay Cutler signed with the Miami Dolphins in August, and while Miami is 4-2 in games Cutler has started, he’s averaging an anemic 5.5 yards per attempt, the third-lowest rate in the league, and managed just 25 points the first three weeks, six of which were a garbage-time touchdown against the Jets in Week 2 to avoid a shutout. The Minnesota Vikings started 5-0 after acquiring Sam Bradford seven days before Week 1 of the 2016 season, but the offense ended up one of the lowest-rated units in the league (just 20.4 points per game despite Bradford breaking the all-time completion percentage record) and finished 8-8 behind a defense ranked ninth in DVOA. The most notorious example of a last-minute quarterback acquisition was the same Vikings signing Josh Freeman during the team’s bye week of the 2013 season. In his lone start for Minnesota, Freeman completed just 37.7 percent of his 53 passes for zero touchdowns and an interception. Freeman wouldn’t play another NFL down until two seasons later, when he signed and started for the Colts in the same week, struggling in his lone appearance.
So while Kaepernick may be the best option for a Texans team that is still in contention in its division and has the supporting cast to make a playoff push, it’s not necessarily the right option. Outside of dealing with an owner, and fan base, who would likely be highly critical of him, Kaepernick would have to balance learning a new offense in a limited time period with playing in the shadow of a beloved rookie who gave an entire city playoff hopes. In theory, for Kaepernick to succeed in Houston, he would need to go undefeated with zero interceptions and a perfect passer rating the remaining nine games, an almost impossible task.
Anything short of that would be a failure.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
HellToupee
Footballguy
tonydead said:
squistion
Footballguy
Hmmm...
Etan Thomas @etanthomas36 20h20 hours ago
So guess who owns over 100 Papa John’s Restaurants and is the biggest single stake
holder of @PapaJohns besides the owner ?
#JerryJones
https://twitter.com/etanthomas36/status/926174228260540416
Etan Thomas @etanthomas36 20h20 hours ago
So guess who owns over 100 Papa John’s Restaurants and is the biggest single stake
holder of @PapaJohns besides the owner ?
#JerryJones
https://twitter.com/etanthomas36/status/926174228260540416
HellToupee
Footballguy
Holy hell I didn’t realize kapernik is 30?? No wonder no one is “taking a chance on him”
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Jerry is out for Goodell's head over the Elliott suspension. I'm sure he's setting up the whole Papa John's thing as another data point to show Goodell is a massive failure.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
Are we quoting guys now who believe Kaepernick would be a better QB than Watson in present day? I'm a 49ers fan. Anyone who says that didn't watch any of those games last year.
squistion
Footballguy
I don't think anyone has said that, just that he would be a better fit for the offense than Savage.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
Um, a 30 year old veteran would arguably be a more advanced version of a rookie if one believes they possess similar skills.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
Bolded in the above post where that was said. Look, all kidding aside he was really good for a couple years. But he regressed and when NFL defenses adjusted to the designed runs for him he never developed as the passer the 49ers had hoped he would. They had several people work with him, Kurt Warner for one. In addition to the business reasons he hasn't been signed, it's not so easy to just pick up a new NFL offense midseason either. There's a reason that during the season teams pick up guys who have been there before, McGloin and Hoyer for instance. There's no time to bring someone new up to speed. I'm hoping the 49ers bring Garoppolo along slowly for that reason. It's hard to have any success without an offseason with an NFL system to learn.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
I'd agree, but it's pretty clear today his skills aren't equal, nor close to Watson's.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
This is news to you?
But, don't worry about Jerry:
Jones bought the Cowboys for $151 million in 1989. Now worth 4.8 billion (with a B) the most of any sports franchise on the planet.
Jones paid 1 Billion dollars of his own money for his stadium, he get a cut of every venue held there.
He owns a 20 million dollar mansion in the ultra-expensive Highland Park neighborhood of Dallas. His Zodiac sign is painted on the ceiling in golf leaf.
His house is full of modern art. He bought Norman Rockwell's "Coin Toss" for $1.1 million 1989. It's now worth $18.5 million.
Jones owns a 50 million dollar Gulfstream V private plane with the walls featuring custom paintings of Cowboys legends.
He bought a 2.5 million dollar luxury bus, and decked it out in Cowboys logos. It has nine TVs, marble counter tops, and room for 20 people.
He often commutes to work in his 8.5 million dollar helicopter.
His net worth is 5.6 Billion dollars.
Oh, and he's in the Hall of Fame.
squistion
Footballguy
Yes, he regressed since he led the 49ers to a Super Bowl appearance, but he is still much better than Savage IMO:
Chad Parsons @ChadParsonsNFL 19h19 hours ago
Tom Savage's next NFL touchdown pass will be his first
HellToupee
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
We don't know that, this decision may have little to do with their perceived abilities of Savage versus Kaepernick. Their decision could be based on the politics of the owner, as evidenced by McNair's "Inmates running the prison" comment regarding the anthem protests.
It is hard to see that a QB who has never thrown a TD pass in the NFL should be the preferred option over Kaepernick (even though he has regressed from the Harbaugh years). If your point is that they don't want the media circus and the perceived distraction that a Kaep signing might bring, OK, but arguing Savage is a better option than Kaep is not very persuasive.
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Old Smiley
Footballguy
Adam Schefter
5 mins ·
Facebook Mentions
·
Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, Patriots owner Robert Kraft and Texans owner Bob McNair, amongst others, will be deposed and asked to turn over all cell phone records and emails in relation to the Colin Kaepernick collusion case against the NFL, a league source confirmed. Others owners, teams and league officials also will be deposed, but those individuals have been confirmed for now.
5 mins ·
Facebook Mentions
·
Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, Patriots owner Robert Kraft and Texans owner Bob McNair, amongst others, will be deposed and asked to turn over all cell phone records and emails in relation to the Colin Kaepernick collusion case against the NFL, a league source confirmed. Others owners, teams and league officials also will be deposed, but those individuals have been confirmed for now.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
Or it could be based on a business decision that while the NFL is down, to sign Kaepernick in the state of Texas probably would cost you a lot more fans/revenue than it would gain.
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Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
Twitter link - https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/926491817058668544
Please don't be joking Schefty.
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squistion
Footballguy
I am not sure what the state of Texas has to do with it (more people vehemently against the kneeling?). I doubt that Houston fans would give a worse reception to Kaep than most other teams (with the obvious exception of Miami and their high Cuban population).
I can't seeing people with season tickets not attending Texan games and arguably the controversy might increase game day tickets and viewing interest. Since Watson should be back in 2018 and Kaep probably not retained as backup, I don't see an impact on 2018 ticket sales.
So, would it cost the team fans and revenue? Perhaps, but poor play by Savage and not making the playoffs may be more costly as far as TV ratings and revenue are concerned
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'll buy this argument in Miami given the Castro/Cuba thing, but everywhere else I think it's mostly nonsense. Kaepernick is massively unpopular with some fans, but also massively popular with others. And Houston has a huge minority population, we're not talking about some small town in west Texas. If he helped the team most people wouldn't care, and those that did would probably be balanced out by the new fans.
I'm speaking from experience here as a guy who forgot all about Daniel Murphy's homophobia about a week into his MVP runner-up season with the Nats in 2016
Shula-holic
Footballguy
Well, I'll put it like this, if I legit thought Kaepernick could make me money I'd sign him in a heartbeat. I think most owners would as well. For sure, out of 32 owners, someone would sign him if they felt that way. There's apparently a belief amongst them that he would cost them money if they did so. There's other factors like opportunity, etc, but owners in most all sports are more than happy to sign athletes, often as reserves, to put butts in the seats and get revenue. There's 32 franchises out there who could take this step. Unless we are to believe that all 32 somehow are putting some type of collusion deal ahead of their own personal financial interest then what other answer is there? It's also probably not good to seem litigious while you are unemployed either.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
I think the teams are disagreeing with you just by their actions. It only takes one team to sign him, it's not like it's just a simple majority of teams are feeling this way, apparently it's every one. Maybe if everything dies down then he gets signed in the offseason. But while all this is stirred up and there is litigation pending I'd be surprised. But then again, it only takes one.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I dunno, I think there's probably something to the claim of collusion. They're bitter about what he's done to "their league" by making them deal with this stuff so they collectively have turned their backs on him. And there's plenty of evidence that the NFL owners operate as a collective more so than 32 competing entities. For example- have you ever heard one of the teams question another one? I doubt all 32 owners approved of how the Ravens handled Ray Rice, or of the Cowboys bringing in Greg Hardy, or of [insert Dan Snyder atrocity here], but I honestly can't remember any of them saying anything critical about another one. Or if they do it's very rare. They generally don't break ranks publicly.
The other thing is he's not that great. Better than many guys on rosters to be sure, but he's not Aaron Rodgers. No doubt they'd sign him for 5 extra wins, but if it's only one or two extra wins and you're a wild-card team at best anyway it's probably easier to just stand with your fellow owners. Especially since if he does play well you just made all your buddies who passed on him in favor of lesser QBs look even worse.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
As far as I know, neither Kaepernick nor his agent have ever confirmed if they expected "starter money".
He opted out of his contract because the 49ers were going to cut him. When a player opts out early, they have more control over their free agent options.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Tiki Barber said it best "It is all about distraction.If Kap was a player who would put a team in the playoffs he would already be on a team. If he comes in as a backup all the writers are going to be going to him after every practice like they did with Tebow. Teams don`t want that kind of distractions from a backup QB"
Plus teams don`t want to deal with his tweeting girlfriend.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Tiki Barber is an idiot and talking about distractions is silly IMO. The Astros just won the World Series after one of their players got caught making a racist gesture in the middle of Game 3, to name just one of countless examples. UNC basketball just ran off back to back ACC championships and Final Four appearances culminating in a national title under the cloud of the most publicized scandal in school history, to name another. "Distractions" are just a post hoc excuse for losing.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
NFL owners don't usually say much of anything. They also dont really comment on other players because of exactly the baloney that Colin kaepernick is pulling here. Can you imagine if a bunch of owners came out and were critical of Hardy and then he wasn't signed? Haha. Collusion!!!
They generally speak through the commissioner and they revenue share so it makes little sense to damage the shield.
They do however compete and owners overpay or make unpopular decisions all the time if they think it will get them extra wins.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Maybe if Kap knocked her around a little bit and put her in her place, teams would sign him.
squistion
Footballguy
Amusing to hear Tiki Barber, of all people, criticizing someone for being a team distraction.
And seriously, teams don't really care what any player's girlfriend says on Twitter (Ray Lewis' dubious claim that it cost Kaep a job as Ravens backup notwithstanding). Please.
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
The Astro thing lasted about 5 minutes in total and the announcers gave it about 60 seconds. Plus none of the players even commented or probably cared.
Barber played a long time in the NFL and I think he knows a little more than we do about "distractions" and how NFL teams operate. And it appears Barber is correct in his assessment.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
They'd prefer to avoid controversy obviously, but "distractions" are inevitable and generally don't affect play at the highest levels IMO. People mostly just use it to explain stuff after the fact or make excuses before the fact. Look at our recent champs. I already did UNC and the Astros. The Warriors kick people in the junk and talk #### about the president non-stop and all the attention on those controversies doesn't seem to be slowing them down (unless they actually get suspended for junk-kicking). I don't know much about the Penguins' inner workings but #### them.
This sums up my thoughts on the whole distraction bit pretty well.
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