College Admissions Questions (4 Viewers)

[bigbottom]

You story is one that resonates with many families across the country.

For people following this thread with younger kids, bake the finances into all conversations you have about going to college.  Most kids will understand if programmed early enough that the finances are as important as the child's preferences. 

Of the schools he was accepted to, what is his top choice?

This is sage advice here.

 

[bigbottom]

Ugh. For those following along, my son was waiting on decisions from Boston schools. He got waitlisted at BU and BC and accepted at Bentley but with very little FA. 

That should have made his decision pretty straight forward. Months ago he got picked for the highest level scholarship at our state school (UNH). With that, he would get free tuition.

i just overheard him on a phone call telling his friend he has no interest in going there and if push came to shove he would refuse to go. He explained to his friend there is nothing about the school that appeals to him and he really doesn’t want to go there. (He is unaware I heard the backend of his conversation.)

He would prefer to go other places, but they would end up costing an extra $125-150K to go there in total. This is going to be a struggle to sort through. 

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.  It's a tough situation to be sure.  When you were applying to these more expensive schools, was it with the understanding that a good FA package would be necessary for it to be an option?  Or have the recent developments with the economy changed the landscape such that paying for private school was once a doable option, but will be much more difficult now?  I agree that you just have to have a frank conversation with him regarding how his choices will impact the family (and his future).  What does he want to study?

 

[Anarchy99]

You story is one that resonates with many families across the country.

For people following this thread with younger kids, bake the finances into all conversations you have about going to college.  Most kids will understand if programmed early enough that the finances are as important as the child's preferences. 

Of the schools he was accepted to, what is his top choice?

To bring people up to speed, our son wants to study sports management (or at the very least business management). His preference is a large D-1 sports powerhouse. His first choice was U of Florida. He got into the main campus (other kids from his HS got accepted but either had to go to a campus or start online). But UF is set up to cater to Florida residents and does not offer much FA or scholarships to out of staters. 

He got into South Carolina and they have him in state tuition as an out of stater, but that still is way more than FREE tuition. They have a strong sports management program and they tout having kids intern at professional sports teams. 

He got offered the highest scholarship in the honors business program at UNH. They design a program for the few kids in that program and they start doing internships and business co-ops as freshmen. He would have a good job lined up long before he would graduate. 

But he hates the weather here, it’s not the size or the environment he wants, and it’s not exactly in a location with a ton to do. 

He had some friends that initially were going to go to UNH, but they have opted to go elsewhere. So the draw in being with friends is gone.

The shelter in place isn’t helping, as he is understandably peeved his senior year is getting altered with little hope of going back to school. Not a happy camper at the moment. 

 

[Sweet Love]

I’m doing the same. I tell him that eventually he will have a top school. Figure it out by the fall and let’s go for it. 

I can't overstate the difference this made for my daughter getting into school - American is overly aggressive on ED (I think 82% were accepted for 2019), but the president of her senior class who had a better GPA than she (but lower ACTs), got waitlisted - we were stunned.  My daughter got money to boot.

It is a little sad though - there was something fun (and stressful) about getting your acceptances and determining which was the best fit.

 

[bigbottom]

To bring people up to speed, our son wants to study sports management (or at the very least business management). His preference is a large D-1 sports powerhouse. His first choice was U of Florida. He got into the main campus (other kids from his HS got accepted but either had to go to a campus or start online). But UF is set up to cater to Florida residents and does not offer much FA or scholarships to out of staters. 

He got into South Carolina and they have him in state tuition as an out of stater, but that still is way more than FREE tuition. They have a strong sports management program and they tout having kids intern at professional sports teams. 

He got offered the highest scholarship in the honors business program at UNH. They design a program for the few kids in that program and they start doing internships and business co-ops as freshmen. He would have a good job lined up long before he would graduate. 

But he hates the weather here, it’s not the size or the environment he wants, and it’s not exactly in a location with a ton to do. 

He had some friends that initially were going to go to UNH, but they have opted to go elsewhere. So the draw in being with friends is gone.

The shelter in place isn’t helping, as he is understandably peeved his senior year is getting altered with little hope of going back to school. Not a happy camper at the moment. 

So he got money from South Carolina and is now effectively paying in state tuition.  If a free ride at UNH was not on the table, is in state tuition at USC something you would have been advocating him to consider?

 

[Anarchy99]

So he got money from South Carolina and is now effectively paying in state tuition.  If a free ride at UNH was not on the table, is in state tuition at USC something you would have been advocating him to consider?

We didn’t really advocate for any school or any cost range other than seeing what the places came back with and we could then figure things out. The last month didn’t help consideration for full cost private schools. 

When he finally heard from SC, he wasn’t all that thrilled and he decided on his own it would still be too expensive. 

His first choice is UF (minimal FA package). Second choice is OSU (minimal FA package). Third choice is UCF (minimal FA package). The two cost effective options are UNH and SC. 

A completely different issue is his current online learning situation. All but one of his teachers is opting to just assign work without any Zoom meetings. So he is trying to navigate all tough courses without any actual teaching going on. It’s basically read and do the work on your own and take a test without any review or instruction. The school’s policy is teachers can opt for whatever approach they feel is best. Other school systems are doing Zoom meetings for every class period just like normal. So he’s in over his head in some classes and there is no great way to learn how to do things if you don’t get it on your own. 

 

[General Malaise]

Still haven't received the ACT test results.  Guessing they're backed up.....

 

[bigbottom]

Still haven't received the ACT test results.  Guessing they're backed up.....

I'm seeing people posting test results today on various boards.  Have you logged into your son's account at ACT.org?

 

[General Malaise]

I'm seeing people posting test results today on various boards.  Have you logged into your son's account at ACT.org?

No, just his ParentVue account.  I'll check in with him.  Thanks GB!

 

[Sweet Love]

We didn’t really advocate for any school or any cost range other than seeing what the places came back with and we could then figure things out. The last month didn’t help consideration for full cost private schools. 

When he finally heard from SC, he wasn’t all that thrilled and he decided on his own it would still be too expensive. 

His first choice is UF (minimal FA package). Second choice is OSU (minimal FA package). Third choice is UCF (minimal FA package). The two cost effective options are UNH and SC. 

A completely different issue is his current online learning situation. All but one of his teachers is opting to just assign work without any Zoom meetings. So he is trying to navigate all tough courses without any actual teaching going on. It’s basically read and do the work on your own and take a test without any review or instruction. The school’s policy is teachers can opt for whatever approach they feel is best. Other school systems are doing Zoom meetings for every class period just like normal. So he’s in over his head in some classes and there is no great way to learn how to do things if you don’t get it on your own. 

Could he elaborate on why he did not want SC?  It's a big school, warmer weather...A lot of NC kids who do not get into Chapel Hill choose to go there since they offer instate tuition.  I am not sure why they have so many of those slots to give away (maybe the infrastructure is bigger than the instate pool), but the ones that I know that have gone there, enjoy it very much.  Sorry you all are going through this - I had a somewhat similar situation with my parents (I got into a school they really wanted me to go to and I said "well, if you make me, you make me), and they relented, and I panicked, picked another school, and ended up transferring.  It all worked out though.

 

[Anarchy99]

Could he elaborate on why he did not want SC?  It's a big school, warmer weather...A lot of NC kids who do not get into Chapel Hill choose to go there since they offer instate tuition.  I am not sure why they have so many of those slots to give away (maybe the infrastructure is bigger than the instate pool), but the ones that I know that have gone there, enjoy it very much.  Sorry you all are going through this - I had a somewhat similar situation with my parents (I got into a school they really wanted me to go to and I said "well, if you make me, you make me), and they relented, and I panicked, picked another school, and ended up transferring.  It all worked out though.

We will have to recalibrate and reconvene on the college talks and negotiations. He himself determined that it wasn't worth the difference between free in NH and out of state in SC. At the time, he had a bunch of friends lined up to go to UNH . . . and now those kids have opted to go elsewhere. He is aware and cognizant of the money aspect. TBH, I think SC was more my wife's first choice and she was using the rudder to try to steer him into landing there. I think my son liked it there but am not sure he loved it. The other issue not previously discussed is he is very, very picky about most things.

 

[bigbottom]

A completely different issue is his current online learning situation. All but one of his teachers is opting to just assign work without any Zoom meetings. So he is trying to navigate all tough courses without any actual teaching going on. It’s basically read and do the work on your own and take a test without any review or instruction. The school’s policy is teachers can opt for whatever approach they feel is best. Other school systems are doing Zoom meetings for every class period just like normal. So he’s in over his head in some classes and there is no great way to learn how to do things if you don’t get it on your own. 

Try Khan Academy. Free instructional videos by good professors in a wide variety of courses, including AP classes.

 

[Nugget]

Anyone having any luck negotiating financial aid this spring?   Not sure what the current climate is doing to enrollment decisions and if there will be more aid available due to some students deferring their admissions.

 

[Galileo]

A completely different issue is his current online learning situation. All but one of his teachers is opting to just assign work without any Zoom meetings. So he is trying to navigate all tough courses without any actual teaching going on. It’s basically read and do the work on your own and take a test without any review or instruction. The school’s policy is teachers can opt for whatever approach they feel is best. Other school systems are doing Zoom meetings for every class period just like normal. So he’s in over his head in some classes and there is no great way to learn how to do things if you don’t get it on your own. 

Try Khan Academy. Free instructional videos by good professors in a wide variety of courses, including AP classes.

edX is another great resource for free courses  And don't short change YouTube either.  I know in physics, there is some extraordinary content available out there.  If physics is one of his courses, let me know.  I can point to some specific resources.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Unfortunately online classes will likely be the norm in the Fall of 2020 as well. Might also want to consider that in the scheme of decision making. 

 

[Freak Show]

One of my daughter's has finished her prerequisites, and has been accepted into an accredited Respiratory Therapy (AAS) Program. It took 26 credit hours of prerequisites, and will now take 52 credit hours for the certificate. The technical college she is going to doesn't participate in any student loan programs. Going forward it will cost an estimated $16,065.00. I can come up with the money, but it won't be easy. Any advice?

 

[Galileo]

One of my daughter's has finished her prerequisites, and has been accepted into an accredited Respiratory Therapy (AAS) Program. It took 26 credit hours of prerequisites, and will now take 52 credit hours for the certificate. The technical college she is going to doesn't participate in any student loan programs. Going forward it will cost an estimated $16,065.00. I can come up with the money, but it won't be easy. Any advice?

Over what period of time for the money to be paid and for her to complete those 52 hours?

Private student loan?  Home equity loan?  Part time employment?  Sell drugs? 

 

[Freak Show]

Classes start August 20th. 

Semester 1 is 1646. Tuition, 500. Program Charges, 1009. Book Fees + small fees around 250. = $3405.

Semester 3 seems to be the expensive one with tuition of 2444. + clinical charges of 2500.

I imagine I'll be looking for some sort of a loan. Definitely not a home loan. I'm close to having my house paid off.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Unfortunately online classes will likely be the norm in the Fall of 2020 as well. Might also want to consider that in the scheme of decision making. 

I share your pessimism, unfortunately.  My university is making contingency plans for an online fall, or possibly a delayed start, and I'm positive every other school of any significance is having the same sorts of internal conversations.  

My daughter is a high school senior as is planning on going to a school in a totally different part of the country.  I'm happy to pay out-of-state tuition if it means giving her the chance to live in different region, but covid obviously changes things.  I'm not paying out-of-state tuition for online classes that could could take just as easily from an in-state institution instead.  She gets that and agrees.  So her fall is kind of up in the air, and I'm sure lots of other families will go through this kind of cost-benefit analysis too. 

 

[Galileo]

Classes start August 20th. 

Semester 1 is 1646. Tuition, 500. Program Charges, 1009. Book Fees + small fees around 250. = $3405.

Semester 3 seems to be the expensive one with tuition of 2444. + clinical charges of 2500.

I imagine I'll be looking for some sort of a loan. Definitely not a home loan. I'm close to having my house paid off.

Then you ought to have some equity value there to tap, if needed.  Not saying you should, because I do not know your situation, but if you are going to seek some type of loan anyway, this might be an easy way with a decent interest rate.  I don't know how busy her schedule will be, but perhaps if you daughter gets a part time job that could offset some cost or reduce a loan amount.

 

[Sweet Love]

I share your pessimism, unfortunately.  My university is making contingency plans for an online fall, or possibly a delayed start, and I'm positive every other school of any significance is having the same sorts of internal conversations.  

My daughter is a high school senior as is planning on going to a school in a totally different part of the country.  I'm happy to pay out-of-state tuition if it means giving her the chance to live in different region, but covid obviously changes things.  I'm not paying out-of-state tuition for online classes that could could take just as easily from an in-state institution instead.  She gets that and agrees.  So her fall is kind of up in the air, and I'm sure lots of other families will go through this kind of cost-benefit analysis too. 

We are in the same boat - in fact, my wife works in government affairs in the healthcare industry and based on calls she has been on, she is actually suggesting, we send her the first semester, then have her take the second semester off as a gap semester, then go back in the fall again (of 2021).  Obviously, we need to consider her well being (how much fun is it to make friends for three months, then be yanked out for 9 months), but if you are trying to track (at this point) when schools may reopen and possibly close again, she is thinking they may make it through the Fall semester, but then pull back again in Spring 2021 to online.

 

[The_Man]

From someone in the Admissions biz: At least 3 of the highly selective colleges that refuse to extend the deposit deadline from May 1 have already gone to the waitlist. At least 1 has undenied applicants & placed on them on WL for now...if full-pay.

Heard from another source that an overqualified kid who got wait listed by GW as yield protection was admitted today w merit aid after not sending a letter of continuing interest. I think schools that have gotten fat on full-pay international students are suddenly finding next fall is looking a bit lean 

 

[bigbottom]

From someone in the Admissions biz: At least 3 of the highly selective colleges that refuse to extend the deposit deadline from May 1 have already gone to the waitlist. At least 1 has undenied applicants & placed on them on WL for now...if full-pay.

Heard from another source that an overqualified kid who got wait listed by GW as yield protection was admitted today w merit aid after not sending a letter of continuing interest. I think schools that have gotten fat on full-pay international students are suddenly finding next fall is looking a bit lean 

Wow, that is pretty amazing. 

 

[NewlyRetired]

I share your pessimism, unfortunately.  My university is making contingency plans for an online fall, or possibly a delayed start, and I'm positive every other school of any significance is having the same sorts of internal conversations.  

One of our local colleges, Boston University, is considering changing the school calendar.  They are trying to figure out if starting in January and then running through the entire summer will work.

I think I like that idea better than online for all next semester, specifically for the incoming freshman.

 

[The Z Machine]

From someone in the Admissions biz: At least 3 of the highly selective colleges that refuse to extend the deposit deadline from May 1 have already gone to the waitlist. At least 1 has undenied applicants & placed on them on WL for now...if full-pay.

Heard from another source that an overqualified kid who got wait listed by GW as yield protection was admitted today w merit aid after not sending a letter of continuing interest. I think schools that have gotten fat on full-pay international students are suddenly finding next fall is looking a bit lean 

Very interesting development.  I wonder what the academic outcomes for each of these groups of students are (full pay int'l students vs. waitlisted students, some with merit aid) will be in 3-4 years.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

One of our local colleges, Boston University, is considering changing the school calendar.  They are trying to figure out if starting in January and then running through the entire summer will work.

That option is on the table at my university too.  (University presidents and provosts all seem to talk to one another).

My initial reaction to that idea was one of horror because it means asking faculty to teach full loads spring/summer/fall/spring without a break, which is asking a lot for probationary folk who need the summer for research.  But I think what upper administrators are starting to realize is that if we announce that we're doing the fall semester online, we're going to lose a ####load of continuing students and probably most of our freshman class.  A lot of students would rather just do a gap semester than put up with another semester of online college.  That would be financially devastating for most schools.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

That option is on the table at my university too.  (University presidents and provosts all seem to talk to one another).

My initial reaction to that idea was one of horror because it means asking faculty to teach full loads spring/summer/fall/spring without a break, which is asking a lot for probationary folk who need the summer for research.  But I think what upper administrators are starting to realize is that if we announce that we're doing the fall semester online, we're going to lose a ####load of continuing students and probably most of our freshman class.  A lot of students would rather just do a gap semester than put up with another semester of online college.  That would be financially devastating for most schools.

Yeah, if it goes this way nearly all Universities will need a huge bailout to survive. 

 

[ffjunk]

That option is on the table at my university too.  (University presidents and provosts all seem to talk to one another).

My initial reaction to that idea was one of horror because it means asking faculty to teach full loads spring/summer/fall/spring without a break, which is asking a lot for probationary folk who need the summer for research.  But I think what upper administrators are starting to realize is that if we announce that we're doing the fall semester online, we're going to lose a ####load of continuing students and probably most of our freshman class.  A lot of students would rather just do a gap semester than put up with another semester of online college.  That would be financially devastating for most schools.

Sorry but I don't feel bad for them as it is financially devastating for a lot of students/families to attend college these days.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Sorry but I don't feel bad for them as it is financially devastating for a lot of students/families to attend college these days.

I'm not saying you should feel bad for anybody -- just explaining that that's why taking Fall 2020 off and turning Summer 2021 into a real semester makes a lot of sense for colleges. 

 

[bigbottom]

One of our local colleges, Boston University, is considering changing the school calendar.  They are trying to figure out if starting in January and then running through the entire summer will work.

I think I like that idea better than online for all next semester, specifically for the incoming freshman.

We’ve been getting emails from BU since my son is an admitted student, and it appears that they are trying to do some damage control following the Forbes article and related press coverage on the development you note above. Here is the text of today’s email:

Dear Parent:

Boston University is giving careful thought and consideration to providing [son’s name] with the great academic experience you expect from BU along with the extra safety and security demanded by these difficult times of the COVID-19 pandemic. Although we are uncertain as to the course of the virus and how we will resume more normal activities, BU is following the best practice of planning for all contingencies. We value transparency above all else and are sharing our COVID-19 Recovery plan which has been featured in BU Today and local media. 

I am writing today because I want to provide clarification about BU's plans for the fall term. It appears that some news outlets interpreted the article to indicate that BU did not expect to return to residential in-person operations until spring 2021. Our intent is just the opposite. 

Our recovery planning is focused on the fall semester, and the resumption of our on-campus, in-person programs in late August. We are planning accordingly and will incorporate the best public health practices into those plans so that members of the BU community will feel comfortable and safe on campus upon their return for fall semester. If for some reason public health authorities do not allow universities to re-open their residential campuses at that time, our planning will explore other alternatives, including the possibility of restarting in-person classes later in the year while continuing with remote classes until then.

We want to assure you that [son’s name]’s education, health, and safety are our top priority and our goal is to provide a first-year experience at BU that is academically challenging and full of opportunity.

If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to contact my office at admissions@bu.edu. I look forward to welcoming your family to campus in the near future.

Kelly A. Walter

Associate Vice President for Enrollment &
Dean of Admissions

 

[General Malaise]

Alright, oldest got his score back on the ACT.  32.  Had 35s on the English/Reading (what I suppose the SAT would classify as "verbal section" but 27 on the math as he said there were questions he had covered so long ago in school that he forgot how to do them.  He asked me if he should take it again.  Here's our down and distance:

- He doesn't have any aspirations to apply to "reach" schools.  I think he'll apply to Reed since its local and he might want to see if he can get in, but other than that, he had his scores sent to Oregon State, Montana State, Western Michigan (they have an aviation program he's interested in) and Embry Riddle.  32 on the ACT coupled with his unweighted GPA of 3.85 should be enough for acceptance to these schools.  

- But, when it comes to financial aid or scholarship, I'm wondering if it would be better for all of us financially if he brushed up on the math section and retook it.  He is very concerned about taking on a lot of debt to get through college, though it's not the end of the world.  I had to, so did my wife, it's part of life for a lot of us.  But I also don't want to pressure him into this or make him think we can't cover the cost of college unless he does better.  He's done great!  We are SO proud of him.  And I don't want him to think his chances of attending hinge on him improving his ACT score by a point or more.  

I think I know the answer but I'd welcome any feedback.  

 

[johnnycakes]

We’ve been getting emails from BU since my son is an admitted student, and it appears that they are trying to do some damage control following the Forbes article and related press coverage on the development you note above. Here is the text of today’s email:

Trying to update my notebook here....   where did your son finally settle on?  Was it USC?? 

 

[bigbottom]

Trying to update my notebook here....   where did your son finally settle on?  Was it USC?? 

Thanks for asking. Yes, USC was his first choice since the very beginning, so it was a forgone conclusion once he was accepted.  Unfortunately, they were the last school to which he applied to issue admissions decisions so we were in limbo until the very end. 

 

[johnnycakes]

Thanks for asking. Yes, USC was his first choice since the very beginning, so it was a forgone conclusion once he was accepted.  Unfortunately, they were the last school to which he applied to issue admissions decisions so we were in limbo until the very end. 

Cool.  Im sure he made a great choice.  My daughters aren't quite as ambitious.  My 18 year-old is lucky she got into Mass Bay Community College.  Her younger sister is a little more academically inclined, though...  she'll be a senior in the fall.  BU would be a "reach" school for her.  More realistically, I'm hoping she gets into UMass Amherst...  those in-state tuition rates are mighty attractive by comparison.  

 

[bigbottom]

Alright, oldest got his score back on the ACT.  32.  Had 35s on the English/Reading (what I suppose the SAT would classify as "verbal section" but 27 on the math as he said there were questions he had covered so long ago in school that he forgot how to do them.  He asked me if he should take it again.  Here's our down and distance:

- He doesn't have any aspirations to apply to "reach" schools.  I think he'll apply to Reed since its local and he might want to see if he can get in, but other than that, he had his scores sent to Oregon State, Montana State, Western Michigan (they have an aviation program he's interested in) and Embry Riddle.  32 on the ACT coupled with his unweighted GPA of 3.85 should be enough for acceptance to these schools.  

- But, when it comes to financial aid or scholarship, I'm wondering if it would be better for all of us financially if he brushed up on the math section and retook it.  He is very concerned about taking on a lot of debt to get through college, though it's not the end of the world.  I had to, so did my wife, it's part of life for a lot of us.  But I also don't want to pressure him into this or make him think we can't cover the cost of college unless he does better.  He's done great!  We are SO proud of him.  And I don't want him to think his chances of attending hinge on him improving his ACT score by a point or more.  

I think I know the answer but I'd welcome any feedback.  

As I recall, your kid is whipsmart and a good test taker.  With some preparation, I'd be willing to bet he could improve his score.  And ACT is starting to report superscores now, so for those schools that will accept superscores he can bank the two 35s and focus on math/science.  I'm not familiar with the admission requirements for the schools you've listed, but I can tell you that there are countless stories of kids (and parents) who thought their scores were more than good enough, and then got surprised (often a particular major can be far more competitive than the school generally).  Of course, we're 1-2 years ahead of you (is your son a sophomore?), and the standardized testing landscape has changed so much even in just the past year.  A bunch of schools who required them last year, won't be for next year's applicants.  Indeed, there is reason to believe that standardized tests may be dying a slow death (hastened by test day cancellations).  But in the end, if you think your kid can take it again in late summer/fall and score higher with additional preparation, I'd do it as it can't hurt, and very well may help.  However, there are many in this thread who are more knowledgeable on the current state of college admissions, so I'd be sure to get their input.

 

[bigbottom]

Cool.  Im sure he made a great choice.  My daughters aren't quite as ambitious.  My 18 year-old is lucky she got into Mass Bay Community College.  Her younger sister is a little more academically inclined, though...  she'll be a senior in the fall.  BU would be a "reach" school for her.  More realistically, I'm hoping she gets into UMass Amherst...  those in-state tuition rates are mighty attractive by comparison.  

Best of luck to your junior!  As much as it sucks for seniors, it may suck even worse for juniors.  Wishing you all the best in the coming months as she explores her options.  Please keep us posted.

 

[Galileo]

Alright, oldest got his score back on the ACT.  32.  Had 35s on the English/Reading (what I suppose the SAT would classify as "verbal section" but 27 on the math as he said there were questions he had covered so long ago in school that he forgot how to do them.  He asked me if he should take it again.  Here's our down and distance:

- He doesn't have any aspirations to apply to "reach" schools.  I think he'll apply to Reed since its local and he might want to see if he can get in, but other than that, he had his scores sent to Oregon State, Montana State, Western Michigan (they have an aviation program he's interested in) and Embry Riddle.  32 on the ACT coupled with his unweighted GPA of 3.85 should be enough for acceptance to these schools.  

- But, when it comes to financial aid or scholarship, I'm wondering if it would be better for all of us financially if he brushed up on the math section and retook it.  He is very concerned about taking on a lot of debt to get through college, though it's not the end of the world.  I had to, so did my wife, it's part of life for a lot of us.  But I also don't want to pressure him into this or make him think we can't cover the cost of college unless he does better.  He's done great!  We are SO proud of him.  And I don't want him to think his chances of attending hinge on him improving his ACT score by a point or more.  

I think I know the answer but I'd welcome any feedback.  

We should merge our kids...

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Alright, oldest got his score back on the ACT.  32.  Had 35s on the English/Reading (what I suppose the SAT would classify as "verbal section" but 27 on the math as he said there were questions he had covered so long ago in school that he forgot how to do them.  He asked me if he should take it again.  Here's our down and distance:

- He doesn't have any aspirations to apply to "reach" schools.  I think he'll apply to Reed since its local and he might want to see if he can get in, but other than that, he had his scores sent to Oregon State, Montana State, Western Michigan (they have an aviation program he's interested in) and Embry Riddle.  32 on the ACT coupled with his unweighted GPA of 3.85 should be enough for acceptance to these schools.  

- But, when it comes to financial aid or scholarship, I'm wondering if it would be better for all of us financially if he brushed up on the math section and retook it.  He is very concerned about taking on a lot of debt to get through college, though it's not the end of the world.  I had to, so did my wife, it's part of life for a lot of us.  But I also don't want to pressure him into this or make him think we can't cover the cost of college unless he does better.  He's done great!  We are SO proud of him.  And I don't want him to think his chances of attending hinge on him improving his ACT score by a point or more.  

I think I know the answer but I'd welcome any feedback.  

Retake it. Higher scores might mean financial aid, it could open doors to things like honor's programs, or who knows. It is a really good score, but if just brushing up on some things could dramatically improve his math score it is worth it. 

 

[bigbottom]

This site lists all the colleges that have adopted test-optional policies: https://www.fairtest.org/university/optional

This list, in chronological order, shows the most recent schools to go test-optional (some are only for Fall 2021 admissions), including the entire UC system:  https://www.fairtest.org/sites/default/files/Optional-Growth-Chronology.pdf

 

[Dr_Zaius]

Question for any of you esteemed college gurus in here.  Senior decided on her school last night, where she got some nice merit aid but no need-based (was not expecting any need-based).  Next in line is only one year behind her, and if you look at the family EFC, I would think we could be in line for some need-based when we have two in.  Should I broach this subject with the financial aid office before she commits?  If so, what's the best way to do so?  TIA.  

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

As much as it sucks for seniors, it may suck even worse for juniors. 

I should probably be paying more attention to all this stuff.  My kid is a junior  I haven’t really focused at all.  

 

[bigbottom]

I should probably be paying more attention to all this stuff.  My kid is a junior  I haven’t really focused at all.  

I think the primary issues for Juniors are as follows:

1) SAT and ACT testing dates being cancelled. This has reduced the opportunities for Juniors to take multiple tests to help improve scores or allow for superscoring. 

2) Junior year grades are typically the most important when applying to colleges and remote learning has screwed things up for a lot of students. 

3) There has been a lot of talk about current seniors taking a gap year or otherwise delaying matriculation because of coronavirus and the potential for disruption in Fall 2020. If that happens in substantial numbers, that could make fall admissions for 2021 more limited/competitive. 

4) With many colleges likely taking losses in terms of tuition and housing revenues (as well as increased costs arising from new health and safety measures), not to mention hits to endowments (for those schools with endowments), the availability of financial aid and merit awards may be reduced.

5) Some colleges have already cut sports programs in light of the financial challenges they are facing in connection with COVID-19. As the full impact is felt over the next 6-12 months, that could become more and more common. 

Note that the last two impact more than just high school juniors, but they will be particularly relevant for many of them as they start the application process. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I think the primary issues for Juniors are as follows:

Thanks for this summary biggie.  Fortunately my kid doesn’t play sports so #5 isn’t applicable.  I’m generally aware of the other stuff but in theory #1 and #2 should advantage just as many students as they disadvantage.  For example, if second semester grades Junior year are reported as pass/fail, for example, that’s probably good for my kid who just got a D in the third quarter.  And I expect my kid will be a good test taker so if most people are limited to only one SAT that could work to our advantage.  I guess #3 and #4 are concerning to some degree but sorta beyond our control so whatever happens happens I guess.

I guess I’m not all that worried.  The kid will go somewhere.  It’ll be fine for us.*
 

*My ex-wife may disagree with some of these conclusions.

 

[bigbottom]

Not sure, but Purdue may be the first school to officially announce a plan to return to campus in the fall. 

A message from President Daniels regarding fall semester

April 21, 2020

TO THE PEOPLE OF PURDUE:

The global pandemic which has altered every previous reality of daily life has, of course, inflicted great harm on the nation’s colleges and universities. American higher education, often criticized for its antiquated ways and its slowness to change them, has improvised and responded with admirable, even amazing alacrity to enable students to finish this semester with the progress they anticipated.

The central question now, assuming governmental authorities permit reopening of our schools by the customary August start dates, is should schools do so, and with what new rules and practices.  Purdue University, for its part, intends to accept students on campus in typical numbers this fall, sober about the certain problems that the COVID-19 virus represents, but determined not to surrender helplessly to those difficulties but to tackle and manage them aggressively and creatively.

Institutions committed to the on-campus educational experience face special difficulties in returning our operations to anything like their previous arrangements.  At Purdue, we have pursued a conscious policy that promotes density of our population.  Our campus master plan aims at bringing people more closely together.  Our housing policies, with significant success, have been designed to encourage on-campus living.  And there are far more of us; we have grown our entering classes, both undergraduate and graduate, by some 25%, while investing heavily in programs like learning communities that foster higher retention and graduation.

There were sound reasons for these steps.  Serving more students is our most worthy social mission.  Making the campus more convenient and walkable likewise has obvious merits.  Most important, all the evidence reveals that students who live and spend more of their time on campus succeed academically at higher rates.  The learning experience is enhanced not only by being closer to faculty, labs, and classrooms, but also by being closer to other students, especially those from different backgrounds.

Now, sadly and ironically, the very density we have consciously fostered is, at least for the moment, our enemy.  Distance between people, that is, less density, is now the overriding societal imperative.  It could be argued that a college campus will be among the most difficult places to reopen for previously regular activities.

But in other respects, a place like Purdue may be in better position to resume its mission.  Our campus community, a “city” of 50,000+ people, is highly unusual in its makeup.  At least 80% of our population is made up of young people, say, 35 and under.  All data to date tell us that the COVID-19 virus, while it transmits rapidly in this age group, poses close to zero lethal threat to them.

Meanwhile, the virus has proven to be a serious danger to other, older demographic groups, especially those with underlying health problems.  The roughly 20% of our Purdue community who are over 35 years old contains a significant number of people with diabetes, asthma, hypertension, and other ailments which together comprise a very high percentage of the fatal and most severe COVID-19 cases.  

We will consider new policies and practices that keep these groups separate, or minimize contact between them.  Literally, our students pose a far greater danger to others than the virus poses to them.  We all have a role, and a responsibility, in ensuring the health of the Purdue community.

The approaches below are preliminary, meant to be illustrative of the objectives we will pursue.  View them as examples, likely to be replaced by better ideas as we identify and validate them.

They could include spreading out classes across days and times to reduce their size, more use of online instruction for on-campus students, virtualizing laboratory work, and similar steps.

We will look to protect the more vulnerable members of our community by allowing (or requiring, if necessary) them to work remotely.  Like the rest of society, we are learning a lot right now about which jobs are most amenable to remote work, and about new and better ways to do such work.

We intend to know as much as possible about the viral health status of our community.  This could include pre-testing of students and staff before arrival in August, for both infection and post-infection immunity through antibodies.  It will include a robust testing system during the school year, using Purdue’s own BSL-2 level laboratory for fast results.  Anyone showing symptoms will be tested promptly, and quarantined if positive, in space we will set aside for that purpose.  

We expect to be able to trace proximate and/or frequent contacts of those who test positive.  Contacts in the vulnerable categories will be asked to self-quarantine for the recommended period, currently 14 days.  Those in the young, least vulnerable group will be tested, quarantined if positive, or checked regularly for symptoms if negative for both antibodies and the virus.

Again, these concepts are preliminary, intended mainly to illustrate an overall, data-driven and research-based strategy, and to invite suggestions for their modification or exclusion in favor of better actions.  They will be augmented by a host of other changes, such as an indefinite prohibition on gatherings above a specified size, continued limitations on visitors to and travel away from campus, required use of face coverings and other protective equipment, frequent if not daily deep cleaning of facilities, and so forth.

Whatever its eventual components, a return-to-operations strategy is undergirded by a fundamental conviction that even a phenomenon as menacing as COVID-19 is one of the inevitable risks of life.  Like most sudden and alarming developments, its dangers are graphic, expressed in tragic individual cases, and immediate; the costs of addressing it are less visible, more diffuse, and longer-term.  It is a huge and daunting problem, but the Purdue way has always been to tackle problems, not hide from them.  

Closing down our entire society, including our university, was a correct and necessary step.  It has had invaluable results.  But like any action so drastic, it has come at extraordinary costs, as much human as economic, and at some point, clearly before next fall, those will begin to vastly outweigh the benefits of its continuance.  Interrupting and postponing the education of tomorrow’s leaders for another entire semester or year, is one of many such costs.  So is permanently damaging the careers and lives of those who have made teaching and research their life’s work, and those who support them in that endeavor.

The COVID-19 virus will remain a fact of life this autumn.  Natural immunity, which has been slowed by the shutdown, will not yet have fully developed.  No vaccine can be counted on until 2021 at the soonest. It is unclear what course other schools will choose, but Purdue will employ every measure we can adopt or devise to manage this challenge with maximum safety for every member of the Boilermaker family, while proceeding with the noble and essential mission for which our institution stands.

Sincerely,

Mitchell E. Daniels, Jr.

President

 

[Bull Dozier]

Not sure, but Purdue may be the first school to officially announce a plan to return to campus in the fall. 

Not sure if it is official, but my son's choice, UW River Falls, has said pretty much the same.  They are planning on students being on campus in the fall.

 

[bigbottom]

On the other hand, Cal State Fullerton has indicated that the fall semester will start online. 

https://www.chronicle.com/article/2-Campuses-Give-Early-Answers/248589

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Schools are all planning on being on campus in the fall, being online-only in the fall, having delayed starts, breaking the semester up into 8-week terms, and all sorts of other stuff.  When an upper administrator is quoted as saying that they're "planning on" X, you should insert the word "contingency" in front of "planning."  Even Mitch Daniels has indicated that their plans are subject to change as the summer goes along.

 

[bigbottom]

Schools are all planning on being on campus in the fall, being online-only in the fall, having delayed starts, breaking the semester up into 8-week terms, and all sorts of other stuff.  When an upper administrator is quoted as saying that they're "planning on" X, you should insert the word "contingency" in front of "planning."  Even Mitch Daniels has indicated that their plans are subject to change as the summer goes along.

Of course you’re right. But by issuing a statement on the intended plan, the school is choosing to communicate an expected outcome. Otherwise why issue a statement at this point if all options were equally on the table and under consideration? I can’t help but think that doing so is either a reflection of, or is intended to affirmatively impact, their planning and goal setting. Purdue has chosen to publicly declare their intent, which is a different tack than the vast majority of schools that are taking a wait and see approach while contingency planning.  There has been quite a bit of backlash against Daniel’s statement, which I have to think was to be expected.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Of course you’re right. But by issuing a statement on the intended plan, the school is choosing to communicate an expected outcome. Otherwise why issue a statement at this point if all options were equally on the table and under consideration? I can’t help but think that doing so is either a reflection of, or is intended to affirmatively impact, their planning and goal setting. Purdue has chosen to publicly declare their intent, which is a different tack than the vast majority of schools that are taking a wait and see approach while contingency planning.  There has been quite a bit of backlash against Daniel’s statement, which I have to think was to be expected.

I agree.  Honestly, all of us would like to be back on campus for the fall, but it's just too early to have that as our expectation.  That's a pretty unlikely outcome at this point, unfortunately.

 

[Payne]

I think the primary issues for Juniors are as follows:

1) SAT and ACT testing dates being cancelled. This has reduced the opportunities for Juniors to take multiple tests to help improve scores or allow for superscoring. 

2) Junior year grades are typically the most important when applying to colleges and remote learning has screwed things up for a lot of students. 

3) There has been a lot of talk about current seniors taking a gap year or otherwise delaying matriculation because of coronavirus and the potential for disruption in Fall 2020. If that happens in substantial numbers, that could make fall admissions for 2021 more limited/competitive. 

4) With many colleges likely taking losses in terms of tuition and housing revenues (as well as increased costs arising from new health and safety measures), not to mention hits to endowments (for those schools with endowments), the availability of financial aid and merit awards may be reduced.

5) Some colleges have already cut sports programs in light of the financial challenges they are facing in connection with COVID-19. As the full impact is felt over the next 6-12 months, that could become more and more common. 

Note that the last two impact more than just high school juniors, but they will be particularly relevant for many of them as they start the application process. 

This is just fantastic to read since I have a junior as well.

Seems like my kids never get a break. At least they are healthy.