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Colts sign Sanders to a Mega Deal (1 Viewer)

The Pitbull

Footballguy
Per ESPN

Indianapolis Colts safety Bob Sanders has signed a five-year, $37.5 million contract with the Colts that includes $20 million in guaranteed money, according to NFL sources.

The contract makes Sanders the highest-paid safety in the NFL.

Sanders, whose playoff performance sparked the Colts on their run to a Super Bowl victory last season, would have been an unrestricted free agent after this season.

Wow. What does this mean for Harrison and Clark??

 
Gotta think Harrison will be done, esp. given how Colts O really didn't take much of a step back with him out. Clark likely gets the Franchise Tag. I'd be highly impressed with the Colts FO if they were able to re-sign both Sanders & Clark long term.

I just don't think that Indy can give Clark the long term contract he deserves to be paid as top 5 TE. Look at the $$ Dan Graham commanded on the open market. Imagine what Clark's agent is telling him he can get ...

 
From RotoWorld:

Harrison:

12/8/2004: Signed a seven-year, $67 million contract. The deal included $22 million in guarantees that were paid before 2006. 2007: $4 million, 2008: $7.6 million, 2009: $9 million, 2010: $10 million, 2011: $11.4 million, 2012: Free Agent

 
When are Harrison & Clark up for contract?Can't believe they have any money left after Sanders/Manning/Freeney.
Harrison is going into the back end of his deal. '08 will be when the real "meat and potatoes" of the deal kick in. Check it out...www.coltscap.net/harrison.phpHe is due $12m in '08 (as is) and even if he cannot play beyond this year, there is still 11.8M in bonus money that has to be written off against their cap.If he is cut, he will only count for $4.4M in '08 and $7.4M in '09. Im sure there has to be a way for them to work it out... but this hefty contract could realistically set them back BIG.Dallas Clark can opt out and become a UFA (I think).
 
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When are Harrison & Clark up for contract?

Can't believe they have any money left after Sanders/Manning/Freeney.
Harrison is going into the back end of his deal. '08 will be when the real "meat and potatoes" of the deal kick in. Check it out...

www.coltscap.net/harrison.php

He is due $12m in '08 (as is) and even if he cannot play beyond this year, there is still 11.8M in bonus money that has to be written off against their cap.



If he is cut, he will only count for $4.4M in '08 and $7.4M in '09.

Im sure there has to be a way for them to work it out... but this hefty contract could realistically set them back BIG.

Dallas Clark can opt out and become a UFA (I think).
I just can't see them cutting Marvin Harrison, no matter how much business sense it makes to do it.
 
Dallas Clark can opt out and become a UFA (I think).
:goodposting: Really? He's going to make a ton of money. (I know that's obvious.)
He better go to a team that has a QB who is his roommate and looks for him like Manning does. I doubt he finds the success elsewhere as he has in Indy.
Can't you just see him going to the Patriots? :lmao:
According to some on this board, they already have a TE better than Clark. Just ask....nevermind, they'll be here soon enough! :lmao:
 
Apparently Tarik Glenn's retirement saved the Colts a bunch of money on the cap.
They better hope so... lol- BEFORE this signing Manning and Harrison took up 30.7M or 26.4% of the 2008 Colts cap (this is including the '08 cap increase). That is CRIPPLING amount of cap space devoted to just 2 (skill position) players.

Not to mention...

Lilja is going to be unrestricted free agent too, and O-Lineman are reeling in top $$. The Colts also, only have 36 guys under contract for 2008; and those 36 guys put them only 17 million under the cap.

 
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Dallas Clark can opt out and become a UFA (I think).
:thumbup: Really? He's going to make a ton of money. (I know that's obvious.)
He better go to a team that has a QB who is his roommate and looks for him like Manning does. I doubt he finds the success elsewhere as he has in Indy.
Can't you just see him going to the Patriots? :homer:
According to some on this board, they already have a TE better than Clark. Just ask....nevermind, they'll be here soon enough! :lmao:
I don't think even the most irrational and biased Pats fan would claim Watson is better than Clark. As a Pats fan, I just want Clark off that team, I could care less where he goes.Gotta assume he is franchised for a year, but if I'm the Titans with all that cap room I make a HARD push for Clark. Help yourself and hurt Indy in one fell swoop.
 
Whats this do to the pricetag of Ken Hamlin and some of the other FA safeties coming due? Bears need a safety in the worst way.

 
Dallas Clark can opt out and become a UFA (I think).
:doh: Really? He's going to make a ton of money. (I know that's obvious.)
He better go to a team that has a QB who is his roommate and looks for him like Manning does. I doubt he finds the success elsewhere as he has in Indy.
Clark would succeed with many QBs, his stats may even be better on a team like Minnesota, Tennessee, Jacksonville, or Buffalo.
 
Apparently Tarik Glenn's retirement saved the Colts a bunch of money on the cap.
They better hope so... lol- BEFORE this signing Manning and Harrison took up 30.7M or 26.4% of the 2008 Colts cap (this is including the '08 cap increase). That is CRIPPLING amount of cap space devoted to just 2 (skill position) players.

Not to mention...

Lilja is going to be unrestricted free agent too, and O-Lineman are reeling in top $$. The Colts also, only have 36 guys under contract for 2008; and those 36 guys put them only 17 million under the cap.
From the same ColtsCap.net site - the website's author's thoughts on what may happen to Manning's contract
 
I guess I get to be the first "hater" to come in and say that Indy overpaid for Sanders.

 
Even if they restructure Manning to a new six year deal, the remaining signing bonuses ($21.2mil) will still need to be prorated over the life of the new contract. Now the incentive will have to be even MORE garunteed $$ (otherwise, the NFLPA would be all over it). Either way they need to be really careful after giving Freeney all that $$. IMO, that deal was the first step into cap hell.

Where they will save the "real" $$ will be Booger Mcfarlen. I think they can get rid of like $6.3 when they slice him loose.

 
Dallas Clark can opt out and become a UFA (I think).
:crazy: Really? He's going to make a ton of money. (I know that's obvious.)
That's why they HAD to lock up Sanders. Now they can transition tag Dallas Clark if they so wish.You do realize that they only have 4 of their 11 defensive starters right now from the Super Bowl team - and are actually BETTER than last year's team. Currently ranked 2nd on defense I believe. They coach their young defensive players up!
 
Dallas Clark can opt out and become a UFA (I think).
:thumbup: Really? He's going to make a ton of money. (I know that's obvious.)
He better go to a team that has a QB who is his roommate and looks for him like Manning does. I doubt he finds the success elsewhere as he has in Indy.
Clark would succeed with many QBs, his stats may even be better on a team like Minnesota, Tennessee, Jacksonville, or Buffalo.
Yes, I could see his stats cut in half on every one of those teams. Oh wait, you said his numbers could go up???To that I say no way!
 
I'm frankly STUNNED to hear people think that either a) Harrison is going to retire or b) that Harrison is in danger of being cut. His first injured season and he's washed up? Guys, there is ZERO chance Harrison isn't a Colt next year unless his injuries are really career threatening (and since he's practicing this week I doubt it).

 
Gotta think Harrison will be done, esp. given how Colts O really didn't take much of a step back with him out. Clark likely gets the Franchise Tag. I'd be highly impressed with the Colts FO if they were able to re-sign both Sanders & Clark long term.I just don't think that Indy can give Clark the long term contract he deserves to be paid as top 5 TE. Look at the $$ Dan Graham commanded on the open market. Imagine what Clark's agent is telling him he can get ...
I think any decent TE would thrive with the Colts. Clark would not be near a top 5 tE anywhere else. Plus his blocking is suspect.
 
djcolts said:
You understand that the Colts had lots of unused cap room this season, and signing him now means that they can use that unused cap room to help out with the extension.
Hold on... Please explain what you mean by this. :eek: Unless im missing something, the Big Four of Manning, Harrison, Wayne, and Freeney will have a total cap hit of $43M in 2008. That would leave the Colts with only $8.49M in cap room (before the Sanders deal) heading into next season. Are you saying that they will use the $$ they have left under the '07 cap to fork over a (good) portion of that $20M garanteed to Sanders? (Im not trying to be a dik. Im genuinely interested in how you think they will handle it.)
 
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Gotta think Harrison will be done, esp. given how Colts O really didn't take much of a step back with him out. Clark likely gets the Franchise Tag. I'd be highly impressed with the Colts FO if they were able to re-sign both Sanders & Clark long term.I just don't think that Indy can give Clark the long term contract he deserves to be paid as top 5 TE. Look at the $$ Dan Graham commanded on the open market. Imagine what Clark's agent is telling him he can get ...
I think any decent TE would thrive with the Colts. Clark would not be near a top 5 tE anywhere else. Plus his blocking is suspect.
think you're wrong. Clark is a former first round pick, guy has a lot of talent. Colts system is nowhere near ideal for good tight end production. Put him on a team with limited receiving options that focuses their passing game around him ala KC or San Diego and he could be a 1000 yard receiver. Before Harrison got hurt this year he was always just a 400-500 yard guy in Indy.
 
I guess I get to be the first "hater" to come in and say that Indy overpaid for Sanders.
I really disagree with this. Sanders is as important to his team as any player in the league. He is the heart and soul of that defense and he IS the identity of the defense. They are a completely different team with Sanders, especially their mentality. I think right now he is one of the best defensive players in the game, and even with the injury risks, I like the move by the Colts.Other than the injury risk (and I think it's minimal), I can't see why this is a bad move.
 
more than likely they franchise tag Dallas Clark
I don't think soI don't think he's worth it. He's a very good player but Gonzalez and Gates are head and shoulders above the rest so the top 5 for a TE is too much for him IMO. A nice sized contract he's worth but not so high as it's extreme. IF someone out there overpays for him, I don't think the Colts could/should match.I don't recall transition tag's meaning but...you get the gist, something very good but not quite franchise tag $.There's been some OK backup TEs for them in recent years and I'm not so sure a decent TE like Randy McMichael(to use last year's FA as example) wouldn't do fine for them.
 
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I guess I get to be the first "hater" to come in and say that Indy overpaid for Sanders.
I really disagree with this. Sanders is as important to his team as any player in the league. He is the heart and soul of that defense and he IS the identity of the defense. They are a completely different team with Sanders, especially their mentality. I think right now he is one of the best defensive players in the game, and even with the injury risks, I like the move by the Colts.Other than the injury risk (and I think it's minimal), I can't see why this is a bad move.
I agree and if I were the owner, in that contract would be mandatory time spent with a trainer and maybe a nutritionist.
 
djcolts said:
You understand that the Colts had lots of unused cap room this season, and signing him now means that they can use that unused cap room to help out with the extension.
Hold on... Please explain what you mean by this. :D Unless im missing something, the Big Four of Manning, Harrison, Wayne, and Freeney will have a total cap hit of $43M in 2008. That would leave the Colts with only $8.49M in cap room (before the Sanders deal) heading into next season. Are you saying that they will use the $$ they have left under the '07 cap to fork over a (good) portion of that $20M garanteed to Sanders? (Im not trying to be a dik. Im genuinely interested in how you think they will handle it.)
Your numbers or 43 and 8.49 (or how you worded it) aren't too accurate as the cap is far higher than that. Near 100 IIRC.A team can apply signing bonuses however they want, whenever they want so long as it's structured. IE 2 mil this year, 3 mil next year etc. I believe he's saying that they can apply some of his signing bonus to this salary cap year, thus saving that amount against future caps. So if it's 20 mil and they have 10 mil free- they'll apply 10 now and it will seem like he only got a 10 mil bonus capwise.I don't think they do that now. They may play some games and have Sanders actually sign it after they speak with Clark. As some have mentioned, they should be trying to sign Clark next. I imagine re-signing him vs fighting other teams in FA for his services will be cheaper, as there's no bidding war.
 
I think right now he is one of the best defensive players in the game, and even with the injury risks, I like the move by the Colts.

Other than the injury risk (and I think it's minimal), I can't see why this is a bad move.
I have to disagree BIG TIME on this one. That's not to say he isn't a solid player, because I think he is. But "one of the best defensive players in the game"?? COME'ON!! Sanders is terrific against the run and makes some nice SC highlight reel hits; he plays with a fire much like that of Troy Polamalou of the Steelers... but IMO, he is a liability in pass coverage. He over pursues, almost ALWAYS bites on the PA, and is constantly caught out of position because he cheats up too much (it was extremely noticeable on the last couple of drives in their game against New England earlier this year); but his knack for the “big play” seems to cover up that flaw nicely. As for the injury risk... I wouldn't say it's "minimal". Not for that kind of $$. In 4 seasons, I think he has only played in more than 5 games twice.

In the end... I think it's a high risk/reward move by Indianapolis. But that is how their defense is structured (overall), and it has been pretty effective. It is a system where lesser players revolve around the 'stars'. So it tends to hurt them allot more, if/when they lose a big ticket player.

 
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Your numbers or 43 and 8.49 (or how you worded it) aren't too accurate as the cap is far higher than that. Near 100 IIRC.
You may have misread my post. What I said was that Manning, Harrison, Freeney, and Wayne will have a total cap hit of $43M in 2008. That would leave the Colts with only $8.49M in cap room (as is stood before the Sanders deal) heading into next season.
A team can apply signing bonuses however they want, whenever they want so long as it's structured. IE 2 mil this year, 3 mil next year etc. I believe he's saying that they can apply some of his signing bonus to this salary cap year, thus saving that amount against future caps. So if it's 20 mil and they have 10 mil free- they'll apply 10 now and it will seem like he only got a 10 mil bonus capwise.
I understand how the spread out of the bonus/guaranteed $$ works. I'm just curious to know "IF" they are even able to apply $$ from this deal against the '07 cap.
They may play some games and have Sanders actually sign it after they speak with Clark. As some have mentioned, they should be trying to sign Clark next. I imagine re-signing him vs fighting other teams in FA for his services will be cheaper, as there's no bidding war.
I really don't think it will matter, because they will likely franchise Clark. Their bigger problem may be re-signing Lilja(sp).
 
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A team can apply signing bonuses however they want, whenever they want so long as it's structured. IE 2 mil this year, 3 mil next year etc. I believe he's saying that they can apply some of his signing bonus to this salary cap year, thus saving that amount against future caps. So if it's 20 mil and they have 10 mil free- they'll apply 10 now and it will seem like he only got a 10 mil bonus capwise.
I understand how the spread out of the bonus/guaranteed $$ works. I’m just curious to know "IF" they are even able to apply $$ from this deal against this seasons cap.
yes they cansorry I misunderstoof the other
 
yes they cansorry I misunderstoof the other
From what I understand, the signing bonus was $8M... The Colts will be able to prorate 1/6th of that (about $133K) under the '07 cap. I *believe* Indianapolis is only under by $7.8M (or very close to it) right now.
 
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I guess I get to be the first "hater" to come in and say that Indy overpaid for Sanders.
I really disagree with this. Sanders is as important to his team as any player in the league. He is the heart and soul of that defense and he IS the identity of the defense. They are a completely different team with Sanders, especially their mentality. I think right now he is one of the best defensive players in the game, and even with the injury risks, I like the move by the Colts.Other than the injury risk (and I think it's minimal), I can't see why this is a bad move.
:goodposting: I agree 100%, this guy is a complete stud. The Colts defense is totally different with him in there, they are a very good run stopping team with him and a horrible one without him. One player truly makes a difference.
 
Gotta think Harrison will be done, esp. given how Colts O really didn't take much of a step back with him out. Clark likely gets the Franchise Tag. I'd be highly impressed with the Colts FO if they were able to re-sign both Sanders & Clark long term.I just don't think that Indy can give Clark the long term contract he deserves to be paid as top 5 TE. Look at the $$ Dan Graham commanded on the open market. Imagine what Clark's agent is telling him he can get ...
I think any decent TE would thrive with the Colts. Clark would not be near a top 5 tE anywhere else. Plus his blocking is suspect.
think you're wrong. Clark is a former first round pick, guy has a lot of talent. Colts system is nowhere near ideal for good tight end production. Put him on a team with limited receiving options that focuses their passing game around him ala KC or San Diego and he could be a 1000 yard receiver. Before Harrison got hurt this year he was always just a 400-500 yard guy in Indy.
I think he's right. The Colts system isn't ideal for TE production, it it *IS* ideal for slot WR production, and despite his classification as a "TE", Clark has been playing the vast majority of his snaps as a slot WR. Basically, he's been Brandon Stokley. It's gotten to the point that, based on their game-charting data of where he's been lining up and for what percentage of the snaps, Football Outsiders has begun classifying Clark as a WR. If Clark leaves via free agency, then he's either going to a system that is less reliant on the slot WR, or he's going to a system that will use him as a true TE. In either case, his production plummets.The loss of Stokley had far more to do with Clark's sudden spike than the injury to Marvin Harrison. Just look at Clark's numbers in the weeks before Harrison got injured compared to the weeks after. Harrison played in weeks 1, 2, 3, 4, and 7. In those five weeks, Dallas Clark averaged for 4.6 catches for 63 yards and 1 score (pro-rates to 74/1008/16). In the other 9 weeks, Clark has averaged 3.8 grabs for 33 yards and .66 scores (pro-rates to 61/528/11). Clark actually produced more yards in the 5 games with Harrison than he did in the 9 games without.
I guess I get to be the first "hater" to come in and say that Indy overpaid for Sanders.
I really disagree with this. Sanders is as important to his team as any player in the league. He is the heart and soul of that defense and he IS the identity of the defense. They are a completely different team with Sanders, especially their mentality. I think right now he is one of the best defensive players in the game, and even with the injury risks, I like the move by the Colts.Other than the injury risk (and I think it's minimal), I can't see why this is a bad move.
I think Sanders is overrated based on the fact that the defense started playing better in the playoffs last year, which happened to coincide to his return. The Colts actually allowed a higher ypc in the regular season games that Sanders played than they did in the games that he didn't- pretty hard to fathom for such a mythical, all-important figure. Sanders' return definitely had something to do with Indy's defensive improvements, but it's often treated as if it were the one and only reason. I could name probably a dozen different defenders who are more important to their team's defense than Sanders. I think Sanders is one of the best safeties in the league, and I think the Colts *HAD* to resign him, but they definitely overpaid. I think Sanders is almost more important for what he frees up Freeney to do (ignore the run) than he is for what he does himself. That's not meant as an insult- I'd say the same thing about Champ Bailey, for instance- it's just the reality of the situation.I like the signing, I just don't like the cost. I can understand wanting to pay Sanders as if he were the best at his position even if he's not, but I can't understand paying him as if he were durable when he's clearly not.
yes they cansorry I misunderstoof the other
From what I understand, the signing bonus was $8M... The Colts will be able to prorate 1/6th of that (about $133K) under the '07 cap. I *believe* Indianapolis is only under by $7.8M (or very close to it) right now.
From what I understand, the Colts can pro-rate as much as they want over this season. The only limitation on how you pro-rate signing bonuses is that you cannot pro-rate more over later years than you do over earlier years. A $15 million dollar bonus on a 5-year contract, for instance, could be pro-rated 15-0-0-0-0, or 5-4-3-2-1, or 3-3-3-3-3, or 12-1-1-1-0... but it could not be pro-rated 1-2-3-4-5.
 
I like the signing, I just don't like the cost. I can understand wanting to pay Sanders as if he were the best at his position even if he's not, but I can't understand paying him as if he were durable when he's clearly not.
Agree 100%.
From what I understand, the Colts can pro-rate as much as they want over this season.
Are you sure about this?? :confused:
 
From what I understand, the Colts can pro-rate as much as they want over this season.
Do you have a link for this? Everything I've read says it is averaged out over the length of the contract. This is from 2001 but Clayton addresses it:2. What does signing bonus proration means?

That is the key to understanding the cap. A signing bonus is prorated or averaged over the length of the contract. For example, a $4 million signing bonus on a four-year contract counts as $1 million in each year of the cap. If a player has a $4 million signing bonus on a four-year deal that has a $440,000 base salary and a $250,000 roster bonus, his cap number for the year is $1.69 million.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/2001/0228/1115767.html

 
I think right now he is one of the best defensive players in the game, and even with the injury risks, I like the move by the Colts.

Other than the injury risk (and I think it's minimal), I can't see why this is a bad move.
I have to disagree BIG TIME on this one. That's not to say he isn't a solid player, because I think he is. But "one of the best defensive players in the game"?? COME'ON!! Sanders is terrific against the run and makes some nice SC highlight reel hits; he plays with a fire much like that of Troy Polamalou of the Steelers... but IMO, he is a liability in pass coverage. He over pursues, almost ALWAYS bites on the PA, and is constantly caught out of position because he cheats up too much (it was extremely noticeable on the last couple of drives in their game against New England earlier this year); but his knack for the “big play” seems to cover up that flaw nicely. As for the injury risk... I wouldn't say it's "minimal". Not for that kind of $$. In 4 seasons, I think he has only played in more than 5 games twice.

In the end... I think it's a high risk/reward move by Indianapolis. But that is how their defense is structured (overall), and it has been pretty effective. It is a system where lesser players revolve around the 'stars'. So it tends to hurt them allot more, if/when they lose a big ticket player.
Do you have specific examples of where the Colts gave up a big play becuse of Sanders being out of position? I mean, the guy has 2 INTs to go with 123 tackles. He is second on the team in tackles.He is the emotional leader of the defense. As a Colts fan, that is worth as much as the Colts are willing and able to pay him.

There is no high risk/reward defense in place in Indy?! The cover 2 is a bend-but-don't-break scheme, designed to limit big plays.

 
Dallas Clark can opt out and become a UFA (I think).
:thumbup: Really? He's going to make a ton of money. (I know that's obvious.)
He better go to a team that has a QB who is his roommate and looks for him like Manning does. I doubt he finds the success elsewhere as he has in Indy.
Clark would succeed with many QBs, his stats may even be better on a team like Minnesota, Tennessee, Jacksonville, or Buffalo.
Yes, I could see his stats cut in half on every one of those teams. Oh wait, you said his numbers could go up???To that I say no way!
He'd be the #1 or #2 option in each of those teams, mostly #1 in shorter distance passes. I'd rather have him there than the #3 in Indy. I assume Marvin will be back. Prior to this season, Clark's best stats were 37/488/4 and the only reason he's better this year is Marvin being out. So while I do not mean he'd improve on his 2007 stats, I do mean his stats on those teams would be better than back in Indy.
 
Do you have specific examples of where the Colts gave up a big play becuse of Sanders being out of position?
Yeah...I have a few. I'll point them out when I get back from the gym. I have a few Colts games on Tivo. Maybe I'll upload the video on youtube after the game. Like I said, he is "excellent" against the run... just not so much in pass coverage. He cheats up too much (IMO). A smart QB can catch him on his heels.

Here is one example from the NE game (where I thought they actually picked on him during the last couple of drives).

moss%20one%20hand.jpg


He is the emotional leader of the defense. As a Colts fan, that is worth as much as the Colts are willing and able to pay him.
I agree he is an emotional leader, and critical to the Colts defense. I just don't think he was worth $20M in guaranteed money.
There is no high risk/reward defense in place in Indy?! The cover 2 is a bend-but-don't-break scheme, designed to limit big plays.
I didn't say they were a risk/reward "defense"... I said it was a Risk/Reward "signing". I think this beacause: A. It's allot of of money B. He is undersized. C. He has had trouble staying healthy. The majority of the DB's and LB's, are the "charge the ball fast" type, who are "tailor made" for playing with a lead and benefit from your high powered offense. They are not built or designed to cover well.

I'm not saying it's a "BAD" thing. It's just the type of defense that most teams cant operate, because they don't have an explosive enough offense. Because of that, Indy gets to fill up their "D" with guys who thrive in their system, but would probably not do so well elsewhere (Jason David comes to mind). They employ a bunch of lesser players, who revolve around a few key stars that lead the "charge" (that's why the loss of Sanders hurt them so much). As opposed to an "independent assignment" based system that allot of other teams use. This strategy has worked really well for them since (about) the start of the play-off's last season. Again, im not saying it is 'bad"... just that it relies more heavily on the play of a few "key" guys.

 
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