Combine --- Winners and Losers (non-OL positions) (2 Viewers)

[Patoons]

How about Adarius Bowman? How much scratch has he cost himself since the Senior Bowl with a poor showing there and now a 4.69 at the combine? Ouch.

I can tell you now just keep in mind Boldin ran a 4.71 and this guy kinda reminds me of him the way he play.

He'll probably fall like Boldin as well... I do agree that Bowman is a solid prospect - his draft stock is just going to fall.

 

[prymetyme25]

Desean Jackson and Caldwell both ran 4.31...Bowman and Manningham are in trouble...

I didnt like manningham coming into this thing and I like him alot less now.

 

[prymetyme25]

Winners:

Felix Jones (RB) - 5'10" 207 lbs (expected to be more "stretched out" at 6'0")

Rashard Mendenhall - weighed a chiseled 225 lbs and showed he can carry the load.

Dustin Keller (TE) - 4.53/40 - 26 reps - 38" vertical (if Dallas Clark can do it, so can Keller, right??)

Calais Campbell (DE) - 6'7" 290 lbs (assuming he runs as expected)

Derrick Harvey (OLB) - much bigger than expected at 6'4" 291 lbs (assuming he runs as expected)

Vernon Gholston (DE) - 6'3" 266 lbs (size to play both DE in 4-3 and OLB in 3-4)

Keith Rivers (LB) - bigger than expected at 6'2" 244 lbs (assuming he runs as expected)

Colt Brennan (QB) - weighed 203 lbs (still will probably fall to the 2nd day)

Mike Hart (RB) - weighed 206 lbs (...but I think his times will be terrible, as a result)

Steve Slaton (RB) - approached 200 lbs and may not be a terrible pick if he runs a 4.30-4.40/40

Kevin Smith (RB) - at 6'1" 217 lbs, he's bigger than I thought

Losers:

Desean Jackson (WR) - smurflike sub-170 lbs.

James Hardy (WR) - "only" 6'5" vs several listings at 6'7"

Brian Brohm (QB) - sub 6'3"

Chad Henne (QB) - sub 6'3"

Ali Highsmith (LB) - only 5'11" (will probably squash any small existing chance of entering the 1st-round)

Chris Johnson (RB) - weighed an expected 197 lbs at 5'11", but simply not compact enough to be a true #1 at this time

I think 6'5'' helps Hardy more than 6'7''.I don't think Brennan will get drafted at all. He's not very good.

Hardy has lost a little "freak" value. Instead of being a potential immense red-zone talent, he'll now be measured against the likes of Malcom Kelly and Limas Sweed and I fear his clockings will fall short (...and Sweed is not a speedster).I agree Brennan does not have the physical tools to be a viable NFL player. However, his leadership and cerebral game could net him a 2nd-day drafting.

I keep hearing people say that Sweed doesn't have speed. That scouldn't be further from the truth. if he runs higher than a 4.45 i would be surprised. He does have a Plaxico type feel to his game but he does have real speed. As a freshman he was clocked in the sub 4.4.

I was close 4.46

 

[FavreCo]

Jordy Nelson 4.51 and 4.49. Fast enough to make my team if he goes to the right place.

 

[redman]

Potential winner at the combine...well nearby: Jeff George

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...504/1247/SPORTS

The NFL scouts, George added, were on hand "to check James out, but at the same time maybe it helped me. I feel good. I'm just amazed that I haven't gotten a chance in the last couple of years.

"Every year I get my hopes up, especially when you look around and see what's in the league. I'm not talking about starting. I'm saying there is a role for me somewhere.''

He just doesn't get it.

 

[EBF]

Devin Thomas with a 4.32. He'll go in the 25-50 range.

 

[prymetyme25]

Devin Thomas with a 4.32. He'll go in the 25-50 range.

I know nothing about this guy but thats about to change.

 

[EBF]

Devin Thomas with a 4.32. He'll go in the 25-50 range.

I know nothing about this guy but thats about to change.

Lots of highlights here:
He's number 5 for MSU.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

GL to whomever takes Manningham. I puke everytime I see someone rank him in the Top 3 WR's.

Headcase - Check

Terrible hands - Check. The guy #####es and moans about not getting the ball....then drops the 2 pass after that.

Terrible size/speed combo - Check. 4.5+ for a guy that's what 190?

Someone please point me to anything positive about this guy. He's David Terrell II, that fortunately for all the NFL teams, already know he sucks before the draft.

 

[az_prof]

Height for QBs is ONE factor: basically, 6'2'' is the magic number. If a guy is shorter than that the scouts downgrade him because they worry that he will have vision problems, seeing the WRs over the big lineman and that he will be more likely to get passes batted down. There are guys who are under 6'2'' who are successful but usually they are mobile QBs or they have an uncanny knack for getting rid of the ball quickly. 6'3'' should not be a problem though.

RB upper body strength doesn't necessarily make a guy a great RB, but I wonder if it doesn't correlate with physical longevity and ability to be a full-time, 350 carry back? I don't know the evidence, but I can imagine that it might correlate with how your body would hold up with getting hit 20-30 times in a game.

 

[Balco]

Height for QBs is ONE factor: basically, 6'2'' is the magic number. If a guy is shorter than that the scouts downgrade him because they worry that he will have vision problems, seeing the WRs over the big lineman and that he will be more likely to get passes batted down. There are guys who are under 6'2'' who are successful but usually they are mobile QBs or they have an uncanny knack for getting rid of the ball quickly. 6'3'' should not be a problem though. RB upper body strength doesn't necessarily make a guy a great RB, but I wonder if it doesn't correlate with physical longevity and ability to be a full-time, 350 carry back? I don't know the evidence, but I can imagine that it might correlate with how your body would hold up with getting hit 20-30 times in a game.

The only thing that I worry about in a back is their lower body strength. I don't care how big their biceps are, how much they can bench . . . etc. I want to see a running back that can explode off the line of scrimmage, who makes sharp cuts, and can square their bodies quickly. This is all lower body strength.

 

[prymetyme25]

Height for QBs is ONE factor: basically, 6'2'' is the magic number. If a guy is shorter than that the scouts downgrade him because they worry that he will have vision problems, seeing the WRs over the big lineman and that he will be more likely to get passes batted down. There are guys who are under 6'2'' who are successful but usually they are mobile QBs or they have an uncanny knack for getting rid of the ball quickly. 6'3'' should not be a problem though. RB upper body strength doesn't necessarily make a guy a great RB, but I wonder if it doesn't correlate with physical longevity and ability to be a full-time, 350 carry back? I don't know the evidence, but I can imagine that it might correlate with how your body would hold up with getting hit 20-30 times in a game.

upperbody strength only plays a big role for running backs in protection. Felix is really gonna have to show some lower body strength or he destin for a reduce role in the NFL.

 

[redman]

Height for QBs is ONE factor: basically, 6'2'' is the magic number. If a guy is shorter than that the scouts downgrade him because they worry that he will have vision problems, seeing the WRs over the big lineman and that he will be more likely to get passes batted down. There are guys who are under 6'2'' who are successful but usually they are mobile QBs or they have an uncanny knack for getting rid of the ball quickly. 6'3'' should not be a problem though. RB upper body strength doesn't necessarily make a guy a great RB, but I wonder if it doesn't correlate with physical longevity and ability to be a full-time, 350 carry back? I don't know the evidence, but I can imagine that it might correlate with how your body would hold up with getting hit 20-30 times in a game.

The only thing that I worry about in a back is their lower body strength. I don't care how big their biceps are, how much they can bench . . . etc. I want to see a running back that can explode off the line of scrimmage, who makes sharp cuts, and can square their bodies quickly. This is all lower body strength.

Ball protection, especially in an era when defensive players are commonly taught to strip the ball, is just as important. It does nobody any good to have a guy run like a bull for six yards only to lose the ball. I agree that the stiff arm is not a huge consideration if he's already got good skills otherwise, but if he lacks the strength to hold onto the ball when people are batting at it or just when he's being hit, then that's a major flaw that will have him out of the lineup in a hurry.Edit to add- this goes directly to the concern I have about Felix Jones anyway, which is that he was not used at Arkansas to run between the tackles. His highlight videos have him continually running off the edge, usually through huge holes, which only shows his speed. I agree he's explosive, but so far I have yet to see how this guy is distinguishable from Tatum Bell.

 

[Balco]

Height for QBs is ONE factor: basically, 6'2'' is the magic number. If a guy is shorter than that the scouts downgrade him because they worry that he will have vision problems, seeing the WRs over the big lineman and that he will be more likely to get passes batted down. There are guys who are under 6'2'' who are successful but usually they are mobile QBs or they have an uncanny knack for getting rid of the ball quickly. 6'3'' should not be a problem though. RB upper body strength doesn't necessarily make a guy a great RB, but I wonder if it doesn't correlate with physical longevity and ability to be a full-time, 350 carry back? I don't know the evidence, but I can imagine that it might correlate with how your body would hold up with getting hit 20-30 times in a game.

upperbody strength only plays a big role for running backs in protection. Felix is really gonna have to show some lower body strength or he destin for a reduce role in the NFL.

Blocking strength is derived from your legs. If you try to block with your upper body, you are going to get destroyed. For all we know, Jones is just as weak in the squat as he is in the bench, which would spell huge problems for him.

 

[Balco]

Height for QBs is ONE factor: basically, 6'2'' is the magic number. If a guy is shorter than that the scouts downgrade him because they worry that he will have vision problems, seeing the WRs over the big lineman and that he will be more likely to get passes batted down. There are guys who are under 6'2'' who are successful but usually they are mobile QBs or they have an uncanny knack for getting rid of the ball quickly. 6'3'' should not be a problem though. RB upper body strength doesn't necessarily make a guy a great RB, but I wonder if it doesn't correlate with physical longevity and ability to be a full-time, 350 carry back? I don't know the evidence, but I can imagine that it might correlate with how your body would hold up with getting hit 20-30 times in a game.

The only thing that I worry about in a back is their lower body strength. I don't care how big their biceps are, how much they can bench . . . etc. I want to see a running back that can explode off the line of scrimmage, who makes sharp cuts, and can square their bodies quickly. This is all lower body strength.

Ball protection, especially in an era when defensive players are commonly taught to strip the ball, is just as important. It does nobody any good to have a guy run like a bull for six yards only to lose the ball. I agree that the stiff arm is not a huge consideration if he's already got good skills otherwise, but if he lacks the strength to hold onto the ball when people are batting at it or just when he's being hit, then that's a major flaw that will have him out of the lineup in a hurry.Edit to add- this goes directly to the concern I have about Felix Jones anyway, which is that he was not used at Arkansas to run between the tackles. His highlight videos have him continually running off the edge, usually through huge holes, which only shows his speed. I agree he's explosive, but so far I have yet to see how this guy is distinguishable from Tatum Bell.

Just to clarify too, I am not a huge Jones fan. But it has nothing to do with his bench press. Ball security has nothing to do with upper body strength.The pros are a completely different game. To be successful in the pros, you have to be able to run between the tackles. That is why I am so high On Ray Rice.

 

[prymetyme25]

Height for QBs is ONE factor: basically, 6'2'' is the magic number. If a guy is shorter than that the scouts downgrade him because they worry that he will have vision problems, seeing the WRs over the big lineman and that he will be more likely to get passes batted down. There are guys who are under 6'2'' who are successful but usually they are mobile QBs or they have an uncanny knack for getting rid of the ball quickly. 6'3'' should not be a problem though. RB upper body strength doesn't necessarily make a guy a great RB, but I wonder if it doesn't correlate with physical longevity and ability to be a full-time, 350 carry back? I don't know the evidence, but I can imagine that it might correlate with how your body would hold up with getting hit 20-30 times in a game.

upperbody strength only plays a big role for running backs in protection. Felix is really gonna have to show some lower body strength or he destin for a reduce role in the NFL.

Blocking strength is derived from your legs. If you try to block with your upper body, you are going to get destroyed. For all we know, Jones is just as weak in the squat as he is in the bench, which would spell huge problems for him.

well poor upper strength could be a indicator of poor core strength too which would mean it doesn't matter how strong your legs are you just wont be able to hold up and the POA.

 

[redman]

Height for QBs is ONE factor: basically, 6'2'' is the magic number. If a guy is shorter than that the scouts downgrade him because they worry that he will have vision problems, seeing the WRs over the big lineman and that he will be more likely to get passes batted down. There are guys who are under 6'2'' who are successful but usually they are mobile QBs or they have an uncanny knack for getting rid of the ball quickly. 6'3'' should not be a problem though. RB upper body strength doesn't necessarily make a guy a great RB, but I wonder if it doesn't correlate with physical longevity and ability to be a full-time, 350 carry back? I don't know the evidence, but I can imagine that it might correlate with how your body would hold up with getting hit 20-30 times in a game.

upperbody strength only plays a big role for running backs in protection. Felix is really gonna have to show some lower body strength or he destin for a reduce role in the NFL.

Blocking strength is derived from your legs. If you try to block with your upper body, you are going to get destroyed. For all we know, Jones is just as weak in the squat as he is in the bench, which would spell huge problems for him.

well poor upper strength could be a indicator of poor core strength too which would mean it doesn't matter how strong your legs are you just wont be able to hold up and the POA.

Agreed, that was a point I forgot to make. Unless you're dealing with Tour de France riders, strength doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's doubtful that a guy will have little upper body strength but gobs of lower body strength.

 

[mightyeskimo]

Height for QBs is ONE factor: basically, 6'2'' is the magic number. If a guy is shorter than that the scouts downgrade him because they worry that he will have vision problems, seeing the WRs over the big lineman and that he will be more likely to get passes batted down. There are guys who are under 6'2'' who are successful but usually they are mobile QBs or they have an uncanny knack for getting rid of the ball quickly. 6'3'' should not be a problem though. RB upper body strength doesn't necessarily make a guy a great RB, but I wonder if it doesn't correlate with physical longevity and ability to be a full-time, 350 carry back? I don't know the evidence, but I can imagine that it might correlate with how your body would hold up with getting hit 20-30 times in a game.

The only thing that I worry about in a back is their lower body strength. I don't care how big their biceps are, how much they can bench . . . etc. I want to see a running back that can explode off the line of scrimmage, who makes sharp cuts, and can square their bodies quickly. This is all lower body strength.

I'll give you props for standing by your opinion. However, I think it's not only foolish to disregard upperbody strength entirely but shows a complete lack of understanding of kinesiology and basic anatomy as well as muscle design. Despite what you may think, the upperbody muscles used in the bench press (including the forearm, triceps, chest and stabilizers) do contribute greatly to a running back's ability not only to hang onto the football and perform a stiff-arm (if they do indeed use that move as part of their style) but also to explode off the line, make a cut and square their body off. As Redman mentioned, strength does not exist in a vacuum. All the body's major muscles work together to form a cohesive effort in virtually all positions in professional football. I don't believe it's accurate or even possible to seperate them in such a way as you are intending.

 

[mightyeskimo]

McFadden running a 4.33 really helped stop his slide. Mendenhall at 4.45 and Stewart at 4.48 are on par with their size. I thought Felix would run a little faster than 4.47.

 

[FavreCo]

Devin Thomas with a 4.32. He'll go in the 25-50 range.

I know nothing about this guy but thats about to change.

Lots of highlights here:

Solid. Looked good today.

 

[FavreCo]

GL to whomever takes Manningham. I puke everytime I see someone rank him in the Top 3 WR's.Headcase - CheckTerrible hands - Check. The guy #####es and moans about not getting the ball....then drops the 2 pass after that.Terrible size/speed combo - Check. 4.5+ for a guy that's what 190? Someone please point me to anything positive about this guy. He's David Terrell II, that fortunately for all the NFL teams, already know he sucks before the draft.

No idea what happened to this dude. He was a force as a freshman. I'm leery of this guy. He even bobbled some easy ones today where others were plucking them clean.

 

[mightyeskimo]

GL to whomever takes Manningham. I puke everytime I see someone rank him in the Top 3 WR's.Headcase - CheckTerrible hands - Check. The guy #####es and moans about not getting the ball....then drops the 2 pass after that.Terrible size/speed combo - Check. 4.5+ for a guy that's what 190? Someone please point me to anything positive about this guy. He's David Terrell II, that fortunately for all the NFL teams, already know he sucks before the draft.

No idea what happened to this dude. He was a force as a freshman. I'm leery of this guy. He even bobbled some easy ones today where others were plucking them clean.

I agree. As a Michigan fan and someone who watched every game, there is no way I want that guy anywhere near my fantasy team. Just not what I'm looking for as a top WR.

 

[FavreCo]

Small school winner: Jerome Simpson.

http://www.goccusports.com/football/?player=2017

6016 199 4.47 34 1/4 (arm), 11" hands (THOSE are MITS!!!) Broad Jump of 11-4. Raved about and shown over and over by NFL Network. They asked him to jump a 3rd time to see if he could bust 12'. Caught the ball well. Will dig for info on his ability to run routes.

From FFlivewire.com

http://www.fflivewire.com/article.asp?id=2202008usm8700rn

Keep a very, very close eye on this youngster. He is a special talent coming from a program that gets little-to-no exposure. Simpson holds the Big South career receiving record with 2,430 yards. His intangibles are tremendous, and perhaps the most impressive attributes that this young man possesses are his 35 3/8" arm length (the longest arms of all players inthe draft) and the second biggest hands of all the players in this year's draft (that includes all players entering the draft - yes, that includes all of the linemen, too). Simpson blew up at the East-West Shrine game and really improved his stock, and if he has a successful combine you can expect him to be drafted as high as the 3rd round or somewhere within the 4th. Depending on how the draft shakes out, look for Baltimore to consider this young phenom (PLEASE NO!!!) in the early part of the 4th round (102nd overall), with Buffalo (110th) and Seattle (117th) possibly interested as well.

Strengths: Tremendous moves and athleticism. Extremely quick when making cuts in his routes. Very smart player who understands the game and is dedicated to fully understanding the playbook. His flexibility and balance is truly remarkable to watch. Could have the best collection of open field moves of all the receivers in this draft. A true leader on and off the field. Great vision and even better hand-eye coordination. Enormous wingspan will certainly intrigue NFL scouts.

Weaknesses: Needs to bulk up a bit. Needs to be more explosive off of the snap. Will struggle against bigger, more physical corners at the next level. Still has not fully developed his ability to be effective on deep balls. Struggled with separation more than a few times, but some of this was a direct result of average (at best) quarterback play. Lower body strength is not at all impressive - he absolutely has to work on this throughout the year.

I think his vertical was 37 1/4"

I like my guys to be able to comprehend the playbook and this dude is a brain.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Height for QBs is ONE factor: basically, 6'2'' is the magic number. If a guy is shorter than that the scouts downgrade him because they worry that he will have vision problems, seeing the WRs over the big lineman and that he will be more likely to get passes batted down. There are guys who are under 6'2'' who are successful but usually they are mobile QBs or they have an uncanny knack for getting rid of the ball quickly. 6'3'' should not be a problem though. RB upper body strength doesn't necessarily make a guy a great RB, but I wonder if it doesn't correlate with physical longevity and ability to be a full-time, 350 carry back? I don't know the evidence, but I can imagine that it might correlate with how your body would hold up with getting hit 20-30 times in a game.

upperbody strength only plays a big role for running backs in protection. Felix is really gonna have to show some lower body strength or he destin for a reduce role in the NFL.

Blocking strength is derived from your legs. If you try to block with your upper body, you are going to get destroyed. For all we know, Jones is just as weak in the squat as he is in the bench, which would spell huge problems for him.

well poor upper strength could be a indicator of poor core strength too which would mean it doesn't matter how strong your legs are you just wont be able to hold up and the POA.

Agreed, that was a point I forgot to make. Unless you're dealing with Tour de France riders, strength doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's doubtful that a guy will have little upper body strength but gobs of lower body strength.

Not true. I saw very little benfit to the bench (playing SS at 5'10 210#) other than beach muscle. No surprise that I was squating well over 550# but my bench was only about 245#.

 

[prymetyme25]

Height for QBs is ONE factor: basically, 6'2'' is the magic number. If a guy is shorter than that the scouts downgrade him because they worry that he will have vision problems, seeing the WRs over the big lineman and that he will be more likely to get passes batted down. There are guys who are under 6'2'' who are successful but usually they are mobile QBs or they have an uncanny knack for getting rid of the ball quickly. 6'3'' should not be a problem though. RB upper body strength doesn't necessarily make a guy a great RB, but I wonder if it doesn't correlate with physical longevity and ability to be a full-time, 350 carry back? I don't know the evidence, but I can imagine that it might correlate with how your body would hold up with getting hit 20-30 times in a game.

upperbody strength only plays a big role for running backs in protection. Felix is really gonna have to show some lower body strength or he destin for a reduce role in the NFL.

Blocking strength is derived from your legs. If you try to block with your upper body, you are going to get destroyed. For all we know, Jones is just as weak in the squat as he is in the bench, which would spell huge problems for him.

well poor upper strength could be a indicator of poor core strength too which would mean it doesn't matter how strong your legs are you just wont be able to hold up and the POA.

Agreed, that was a point I forgot to make. Unless you're dealing with Tour de France riders, strength doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's doubtful that a guy will have little upper body strength but gobs of lower body strength.

Not true. I saw very little benfit to the bench (playing SS at 5'10 210#) other than beach muscle. No surprise that I was squating well over 550# but my bench was only about 245#.

oddly enough you just made his point. In relative strength squating 550 and lifting about 250 is about right. Honestly average players dont lift over 250 thats for lineman and bodybuilders.

 

[mcintyre1]

Height for QBs is ONE factor: basically, 6'2'' is the magic number. If a guy is shorter than that the scouts downgrade him because they worry that he will have vision problems, seeing the WRs over the big lineman and that he will be more likely to get passes batted down. There are guys who are under 6'2'' who are successful but usually they are mobile QBs or they have an uncanny knack for getting rid of the ball quickly. 6'3'' should not be a problem though. RB upper body strength doesn't necessarily make a guy a great RB, but I wonder if it doesn't correlate with physical longevity and ability to be a full-time, 350 carry back? I don't know the evidence, but I can imagine that it might correlate with how your body would hold up with getting hit 20-30 times in a game.

upperbody strength only plays a big role for running backs in protection. Felix is really gonna have to show some lower body strength or he destin for a reduce role in the NFL.

Blocking strength is derived from your legs. If you try to block with your upper body, you are going to get destroyed. For all we know, Jones is just as weak in the squat as he is in the bench, which would spell huge problems for him.

well poor upper strength could be a indicator of poor core strength too which would mean it doesn't matter how strong your legs are you just wont be able to hold up and the POA.

Agreed, that was a point I forgot to make. Unless you're dealing with Tour de France riders, strength doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's doubtful that a guy will have little upper body strength but gobs of lower body strength.

Not true. I saw very little benfit to the bench (playing SS at 5'10 210#) other than beach muscle. No surprise that I was squating well over 550# but my bench was only about 245#.

oddly enough you just made his point. In relative strength squating 550 and lifting about 250 is about right. Honestly average players dont lift over 250 thats for lineman and bodybuilders.

And then there's Darius Reynaud, who squats 695lbs as a WR and benches god knows how much.