What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Commish Ethics Question (1 Viewer)

simsarge

simsarge

Footballguy
In my league the service mistakenly added an extra roster slot when they made a line up adjustment for us. Almost everyone in the league knew it was incorrect and didn't add a player to fill the newly emtpy slot save for one team. That one team happened to be a new guy this year and didn't realize adding the extra body via Free Agency actually put his roster over the pre-established player limit. I called him up, told him what happened and told him he had to drop him to ensure he was in compliance. I did tell him that he could drop someone on his roster and pick this guy up that way. He dropped him, but neither he nor anyone else has made a move to (re)aquire.

I posted the SNAFU and correction on the league web site, so everyone has had a chance to see what transpired. This happened last night around 8:30.

My question is, since this guy is a free agent can i in good concience pick him up? Or is this really some kind of insider trading (although not deliberate).I can wait and let him fall back to waivers after gametime tonight, and then see what happens next week, but I'd like not to wait since I plan on starting him if I do pick him up.

TIA

 
I would wait for him to go to waivers if I were you. It would look real shady if you snatch him up and start him this week.

 
Just to be clear, after our Waivers process has run all nonRostered players are Free Agents and Add/Drops can be done at will. So any player that's a FA can be picked up by any team. I assume this is known, but I'm guessing Different Leagues have different meanings and implementations for these terms

 
If you are merely doing something that any other owner could do right this second, then it's not improper. If the player is currently on waivers because he was dropped, and you'll be using your commish powers to add him, then it's improper. The point isn't that he would have been a free agent, the point is that you are using your commish powers to do something no one else could do.

It's also important to remember that a commish shouldn't just avoid improper behavior, he should avoid the very appearance of impropriety. There are times when I make a mistake and refrain from using my commish powers to fix it, even if I would have done so for another owner. It's not fair, but it's a small price to pay for a peaceful league. With great powers and all that.

 
Garbage commish move.

Fantasy football needs less people like you running leagues. Stop trying to abuse your 'power'

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'simsarge said:
'spodog said:
'Waverunner said:
He should be locked until waivers open for everyone.
Click to expand...
Agree with this
Click to expand...
I guess my wonder with this is if he was a FA before he was mistakenly picked up, why wouldn't he be so again once he was released? In my mind he never really rightfully belonged to anyone to begin with
Click to expand...
It's because you have knowledge that he is once again available before most of the other teams in the league. The argument could be made why didn't you pick him up earlier if he was a FA if you want him so bad?You have to do what's best for the league even if you feel you're getting screwed because you're the commish.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
How long ago did this happen? If it's been a day or so and he is a FA and no one has moved on him then I see nothing wrong with you picking him up.

 
'SSOG said:
If you are merely doing something that any other owner could do right this second, then it's not improper. If the player is currently on waivers because he was dropped, and you'll be using your commish powers to add him, then it's improper. The point isn't that he would have been a free agent, the point is that you are using your commish powers to do something no one else could do. It's also important to remember that a commish shouldn't just avoid improper behavior, he should avoid the very appearance of impropriety. There are times when I make a mistake and refrain from using my commish powers to fix it, even if I would have done so for another owner. It's not fair, but it's a small price to pay for a peaceful league. With great powers and all that.
Click to expand...
Great points both.We have our FA pickups handled manually by the commish (long story as to why). However, just this past week, he gave kudos to a team for snagging the guy he wanted, as the commish put in for that player in his 2nd pickup que, not 1st. Clearly, he could have looked at the requests and flipped them in his que and no one would have known. But he didn't - and we all know he never would. He always puts in his FA pickups before looking at the list - a great commish. Not everyone in the league has to be of high moral character - just one; the commish. The rest of us can be ########. :thumbup:
 
'Craig_MiamiFL said:
Garbage commish move. Fantasy football needs less people like you running leagues. Stop trying to abuse your 'power'
Click to expand...
Not sure where you think there's any impropriety. :confused: I'm not using Commish powers to add or move him from one roster to another. The guy's a free agent so anyone can pick him up. I do understand that it's not the FA pick up that's the problem. It's well within the rules and I'm not asking for permission to cheat so I can have a clear concience. My wonder was if this looks as someone put it "shady". Thus I figured eliciting the SP's thoughts would be the way to go.
 
'SSOG said:
It's also important to remember that a commish shouldn't just avoid improper behavior, he should avoid the very appearance of impropriety. There are times when I make a mistake and refrain from using my commish powers to fix it, even if I would have done so for another owner. It's not fair, but it's a small price to pay for a peaceful league. With great powers and all that.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: If you have to ask if it's proper, don't do it. Doesn't matter if the answer is yes or no.

 
A lot of great points made in here, but the original question was about ethics, not technicalities. Since you are the Commish, you get to be held to a higher standard – not only to returning owners, but especially in the eyes of the new guy. Ethically, let it go to the waiver process.

Now if it happens AGAIN, screw ethics… :excited:

 
The fact that you had to ask means you shouldn't do it. I'm a commissioner and if I ever have to ask myself if a move I was making was an abuse of power and rules, I don't do it.

 
'whatadai said:
The fact that you had to ask means you shouldn't do it. I'm a commissioner and if I ever have to ask myself if a move I was making was an abuse of power and rules, I don't do it.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:There's a reason why a part of you feels it's the wrong thing to do. Listen to it.
 
'simsarge said:
In my league the service mistakenly added an extra roster slot when they made a line up adjustment for us. Almost everyone in the league knew it was incorrect and didn't add a player to fill the newly emtpy slot save for one team. That one team happened to be a new guy this year and didn't realize adding the extra body via Free Agency actually put his roster over the pre-established player limit. I called him up, told him what happened and told him he had to drop him to ensure he was in compliance. I did tell him that he could drop someone on his roster and pick this guy up that way. He dropped him, but neither he nor anyone else has made a move to (re)aquire. I posted the SNAFU and correction on the league web site, so everyone has had a chance to see what transpired. This happened last night around 8:30. My question is, since this guy is a free agent can i in good concience pick him up? Or is this really some kind of insider trading (although not deliberate).I can wait and let him fall back to waivers after gametime tonight, and then see what happens next week, but I'd like not to wait since I plan on starting him if I do pick him up.TIA
Click to expand...
Who is the player? It doesn't matter of course, just really curious now after reading this post haha
 
'Diamond One said:
A lot of great points made in here, but the original question was about ethics, not technicalities. Since you are the Commish, you get to be held to a higher standard – not only to returning owners, but especially in the eyes of the new guy. Ethically, let it go to the waiver process.

Now if it happens AGAIN, screw ethics… :excited:
Click to expand...
My solution does not hold the Commish to a higher standard.OP, your argument is that this player should be a FA, and nobody rightfully has a claim. It makes no difference what should have happened rightfully, because you failed to make things happen rightfully.

The player should be locked until the next regular waiver period clears. It's fine to be quick on the draw and claim a regular free agent when some development unfolds. This is NOT like that. This is a league error, period. You are fixing that error. Not everyone monitors the league constantly, and those people will lag behind your information. Fixing your mistake does not give you an advantage over people who won't consider making transaction until the next waiver period. They have no reason to expect this player would be a FA.

It is not only an abuse of your power to do this, it would also be a mistake to let him be a free agent even if you didn't want him.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
All league has the same access the moment the player is a FA. So if that is what matters, he should take him after one second of free agency.

 
Please let us know if/when another owner picks that player up so you can look like an idiot for not doing something allowed by the rules.

 
'Bonka said:
Please let us know if/when another owner picks that player up so you can look like an idiot for not doing something allowed by the rules.
Click to expand...
Was it a rule that the league would create a bogus roster spot, and the commish would admit to failing to make sure everyone knew this? His original goof was a mark on his credibility as a commish; this would flush his cred down the toilet. If the player goes through the week's waivers, your scenario is nullified.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Let me just make sure I have my facts straight here.

it sounds to me like player A picked up a player he wasnt supposed to. you made him drop him (or any other player of his choice) so his roster size would be the same as everyone else.

totally fair.

he drops said player, and now said player is a free agent belonging to nobody and any one of the teams can pick him up and have been able to do so for 24 hours.

you now think you may want him and are thinking of dropping someone up to pick this guy up?

If I am correct, you have done nothing wrong officially.

I would, as a courtesy, inform the player who initially picked him up and dropped him of your intent to pick him up tomorrow. Knowing he wanted him, you give him a day to decide if he wants to drop a player to acquire this guy. if he doesn't or if he replies saying hes no longer interested, then go ahead. You've stepped on no toes, and if any other team is able to pick him up like you want to, there is nothing stopping them from doing it before you do.

To that end, you have covered all the bases you need to, and you have consulted the guy who picked him up and have given him a shot at him. While this part was unnecessary, it does prevent the appearance of any conflict of interest and there will be no hurt feelings on the part of the new guy.

That is how I would handle it.

If I misunderstand the situation, please correct me on the facts of the matter.

 
I'm amazed at the sheer number of people who think the commissioner is obligated to manage his team with one hand tied behind his back.

As commissioner, he has an obligation to do what is fair and best for the league. But he's not only the commissioner, he's also an owner, with the same rights and responsibilities as the other eleven owners. As an owner, he is allowed - even obligated - to do what is best for his own team. There is not a single piece of the OP that indicates he would be doing anything to abuse his commissioner powers or anything like that. He's allowed to pick up free agents, it's absurd to suggest that in that respect he is playing by a different set of rules than everyone else. Being commissioner is already often a thankless job, there's no reason to make it even worse by preventing him from managing his team the way any other owner could.

 
Ignorato:

I think the point is that as a commish you should avoid conflicts of interest.

I realize this thread has turned into a bit of a gong show and there is some confusion as to what has happened and what should happen as a result, but I think the point is, if you make an owner drop a player and then go scoop him up (legal or no) it looks bad. And if you want to remain a commish you should try to avoid those situations because noone will think you a fair decision maker if you cant referee yourself.

If you as a commish cant avoid the appearance of conflict of interest with a little common sense, you probably shouldnt be there as commish. It is an honour that the other league mates accept you as commish, you should treat it as such and try to avoid situations where it may appear you have betrayed someone's trust.

you can read my post above where I say what I feel the commish should do. I think it is a reasonable compromise that wont upset anyone so long as he drops a player when he picks up the new guy.

cheers

 
'Ray_T said:
Ignorato:I think the point is that as a commish you should avoid conflicts of interest. I realize this thread has turned into a bit of a gong show and there is some confusion as to what has happened and what should happen as a result, but I think the point is, if you make an owner drop a player and then go scoop him up (legal or no) it looks bad. And if you want to remain a commish you should try to avoid those situations because noone will think you a fair decision maker if you cant referee yourself.If you as a commish cant avoid the appearance of conflict of interest with a little common sense, you probably shouldnt be there as commish. It is an honour that the other league mates accept you as commish, you should treat it as such and try to avoid situations where it may appear you have betrayed someone's trust.you can read my post above where I say what I feel the commish should do. I think it is a reasonable compromise that wont upset anyone so long as he drops a player when he picks up the new guy. cheers
Click to expand...
:goodposting:
 
'Ray_T said:
Ignorato:

I think the point is that as a commish you should avoid conflicts of interest.

I realize this thread has turned into a bit of a gong show and there is some confusion as to what has happened and what should happen as a result, but I think the point is, if you make an owner drop a player and then go scoop him up (legal or no) it looks bad. And if you want to remain a commish you should try to avoid those situations because noone will think you a fair decision maker if you cant referee yourself.

If you as a commish cant avoid the appearance of conflict of interest with a little common sense, you probably shouldnt be there as commish. It is an honour that the other league mates accept you as commish, you should treat it as such and try to avoid situations where it may appear you have betrayed someone's trust.

you can read my post above where I say what I feel the commish should do. I think it is a reasonable compromise that wont upset anyone so long as he drops a player when he picks up the new guy.

cheers
Click to expand...
There's no conflict of interest to avoid here. His interest as commissioner is to make sure everyone has the same size roster, has the same opportunity to pick up available players, etc. He's done this. His interest as an owner is to pick up freely available players when he thinks it will improve his team. There's no conflict here between those two interests.Obviously the commissioner needs to act responsibly in the role of commissioner. But as a fellow owner in the league, no commissioner should be expected to neglect the best interests of his own team simply to avoid the appearance of impropriety. It's obvious in this case that he's not doing anything to abuse his commissioner powers - he's simply picking up a free agent, just like any owner in the league is allowed to do.

Regarding your "compromise," it seems all you've added is that he should let the other owner know he wants to pick up the player, and give him 24 hours to do so first. Two problems: First, it sounds like he already did that:

'simsarge said:
I did tell him that he could drop someone on his roster and pick this guy up that way. He dropped him, but neither he nor anyone else has made a move to (re)aquire.
Click to expand...
Secondly, you're confusing his commissioner role with his team-owner role. As commissioner, he stepped in where there was an issue in the league, and he corrected it. As a team owner, he is well within his rights to pick up a free agent without first notifying that player's previous owner. What if a third team wanted to pick up the player? Would he be required to give this owner advance notice and give him first dibs? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. Besides, the owner already had first dibs on the player, and chose not to keep him. He is freely available for ANY owner - including the commissioner - to pick up. There is a rampant and absurd notion in fantasy football that the commissioner cannot manage his team like the other owners in the league, in the interest of "appearing" fair. You know what's not fair? Handcuffing one owner in the league and preventing him from making moves that the other eleven owners could make without question. In his role as commissioner, he is held to a standard to make sure the league functions properly, make sure he doesn't abuse his commissioner access in a way that would give his own team an advantage, etc. In his role as a team owner, he is held to the same exact standard as the other owners in the league. He is under no obligation to manage his own team differently just because he also, separately, serves as the commissioner of the league.

 
'Ignoratio Elenchi said:
'Ray_T said:
Ignorato:

I think the point is that as a commish you should avoid conflicts of interest.

I realize this thread has turned into a bit of a gong show and there is some confusion as to what has happened and what should happen as a result, but I think the point is, if you make an owner drop a player and then go scoop him up (legal or no) it looks bad. And if you want to remain a commish you should try to avoid those situations because noone will think you a fair decision maker if you cant referee yourself.

If you as a commish cant avoid the appearance of conflict of interest with a little common sense, you probably shouldnt be there as commish. It is an honour that the other league mates accept you as commish, you should treat it as such and try to avoid situations where it may appear you have betrayed someone's trust.

you can read my post above where I say what I feel the commish should do. I think it is a reasonable compromise that wont upset anyone so long as he drops a player when he picks up the new guy.

cheers
Click to expand...
There's no conflict of interest to avoid here. His interest as commissioner is to make sure everyone has the same size roster, has the same opportunity to pick up available players, etc. He's done this. His interest as an owner is to pick up freely available players when he thinks it will improve his team. There's no conflict here between those two interests.Obviously the commissioner needs to act responsibly in the role of commissioner. But as a fellow owner in the league, no commissioner should be expected to neglect the best interests of his own team simply to avoid the appearance of impropriety. It's obvious in this case that he's not doing anything to abuse his commissioner powers - he's simply picking up a free agent, just like any owner in the league is allowed to do.

Regarding your "compromise," it seems all you've added is that he should let the other owner know he wants to pick up the player, and give him 24 hours to do so first. Two problems: First, it sounds like he already did that:

'simsarge said:
I did tell him that he could drop someone on his roster and pick this guy up that way. He dropped him, but neither he nor anyone else has made a move to (re)aquire.
Click to expand...
Secondly, you're confusing his commissioner role with his team-owner role. As commissioner, he stepped in where there was an issue in the league, and he corrected it. As a team owner, he is well within his rights to pick up a free agent without first notifying that player's previous owner. What if a third team wanted to pick up the player? Would he be required to give this owner advance notice and give him first dibs? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. Besides, the owner already had first dibs on the player, and chose not to keep him. He is freely available for ANY owner - including the commissioner - to pick up. There is a rampant and absurd notion in fantasy football that the commissioner cannot manage his team like the other owners in the league, in the interest of "appearing" fair. You know what's not fair? Handcuffing one owner in the league and preventing him from making moves that the other eleven owners could make without question. In his role as commissioner, he is held to a standard to make sure the league functions properly, make sure he doesn't abuse his commissioner access in a way that would give his own team an advantage, etc. In his role as a team owner, he is held to the same exact standard as the other owners in the league. He is under no obligation to manage his own team differently just because he also, separately, serves as the commissioner of the league.
Click to expand...
Now for the rest of the story. The player in question that got cut by the noob is Doug Martin.Anyone want to change their response.

I would have picked him up so fast it would make your head spin!

 
'Ignoratio Elenchi said:
'Ray_T said:
Ignorato:

I think the point is that as a commish you should avoid conflicts of interest.

I realize this thread has turned into a bit of a gong show and there is some confusion as to what has happened and what should happen as a result, but I think the point is, if you make an owner drop a player and then go scoop him up (legal or no) it looks bad. And if you want to remain a commish you should try to avoid those situations because noone will think you a fair decision maker if you cant referee yourself.

If you as a commish cant avoid the appearance of conflict of interest with a little common sense, you probably shouldnt be there as commish. It is an honour that the other league mates accept you as commish, you should treat it as such and try to avoid situations where it may appear you have betrayed someone's trust.

you can read my post above where I say what I feel the commish should do. I think it is a reasonable compromise that wont upset anyone so long as he drops a player when he picks up the new guy.

cheers
Click to expand...
There's no conflict of interest to avoid here. His interest as commissioner is to make sure everyone has the same size roster, has the same opportunity to pick up available players, etc. He's done this. His interest as an owner is to pick up freely available players when he thinks it will improve his team. There's no conflict here between those two interests.Obviously the commissioner needs to act responsibly in the role of commissioner. But as a fellow owner in the league, no commissioner should be expected to neglect the best interests of his own team simply to avoid the appearance of impropriety. It's obvious in this case that he's not doing anything to abuse his commissioner powers - he's simply picking up a free agent, just like any owner in the league is allowed to do.

Regarding your "compromise," it seems all you've added is that he should let the other owner know he wants to pick up the player, and give him 24 hours to do so first. Two problems: First, it sounds like he already did that:

'simsarge said:
I did tell him that he could drop someone on his roster and pick this guy up that way. He dropped him, but neither he nor anyone else has made a move to (re)aquire.
Click to expand...
Secondly, you're confusing his commissioner role with his team-owner role. As commissioner, he stepped in where there was an issue in the league, and he corrected it. As a team owner, he is well within his rights to pick up a free agent without first notifying that player's previous owner. What if a third team wanted to pick up the player? Would he be required to give this owner advance notice and give him first dibs? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. Besides, the owner already had first dibs on the player, and chose not to keep him. He is freely available for ANY owner - including the commissioner - to pick up. There is a rampant and absurd notion in fantasy football that the commissioner cannot manage his team like the other owners in the league, in the interest of "appearing" fair. You know what's not fair? Handcuffing one owner in the league and preventing him from making moves that the other eleven owners could make without question. In his role as commissioner, he is held to a standard to make sure the league functions properly, make sure he doesn't abuse his commissioner access in a way that would give his own team an advantage, etc. In his role as a team owner, he is held to the same exact standard as the other owners in the league. He is under no obligation to manage his own team differently just because he also, separately, serves as the commissioner of the league.
Click to expand...
I understand where you are coming from. However, you need to remember this is a new guy who is probably a guppie rather than a shark. (most of us are if it's our first fantasy football league) and could have misunderstood or misread the messaging (this sometimes happens) and just perceived the message to be 'drop him now' and may have hard feelings if you pick him up now.In notifying him you are basically giving him some courtesy and avoiding the appearance of any wrongdoing if someone should gripe about the move.

I think there is nothing wrong with this, and in the event that someone complains, this keeps the integrity of the commish intact and he doesn't have to fight to do it. (important)

I'm not saying don't pick him up. I'm saying show some courtesy to the new guy. if as a manager, you have concerns another team is gonna scoop him, then call the manager personally and ask him point blank. do you intend to pick him up or keep him? Yes or no.

That is more than enough. But I do think it could be perceived as a jerk type move if you just pick him up with no explanation to anyone(the new guy in particular). This is not a place you wanna go. That's all I'm saying.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
DJ Moore
Replies
5
Views
370
ffmail4me
ffmail4me
Largent
Travis Hunter in IDP leagues
Replies
16
Views
2K
Brew Swillis
Brew Swillis
Judge Smails
**Official 5th Pick - 1/2 point PPR strategy thread
Replies
3
Views
168
Judge Smails
Judge Smails

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top