Could somebody explain to me why... (1 Viewer)

[laughinboy_2000]

This guy gets a ton of HR's and RBI's each year and it would only make sense to have him batting 3rd, 4th, or 5th in the lineup. Today for example he is batting second while 2B Brandon Phillips is batting 3rd? I just don't understand it? Thoughts?

 

[Irish]

This guy gets a ton of HR's and RBI's each year and it would only make sense to have him batting 3rd, 4th, or 5th in the lineup. Today for example he is batting second while 2B Brandon Phillips is batting 3rd? I just don't understand it? Thoughts?

It could get him an extra AB in the game.

 

[Capella]

best or one of the best OBPs on the team. gets him on base for other guys behind him to drive in.

also, his average with runners in scoring position is almost historically bad. he has absolutely no business being in a position to bat behind guys who are consistently getting on base.

 

[Limp Ditka]

best or one of the best OBPs on the team. gets him on base for other guys behind him to drive in.also, his average with runners in scoring position is almost historically bad. he has absolutely no business being in a position to bat behind guys who are consistently getting on base.

I think the guy went an entire year without hitting a sac fly. I'd love to see him in the 2 hole all year

 

[Limp Ditka]

best or one of the best OBPs on the team. gets him on base for other guys behind him to drive in.

also, his average with runners in scoring position is almost historically bad. he has absolutely no business being in a position to bat behind guys who are consistently getting on base.

I think the guy went an entire year without hitting a sac fly. I'd love to see him in the2 hole all year

 

[[icon]]

best or one of the best OBPs on the team. gets him on base for other guys behind him to drive in.

also, his average with runners in scoring position is almost historically bad. he has absolutely no business being in a position to bat behind guys who are consistently getting on base.

I think the guy went an entire year without hitting a sac fly. I'd love to see him in the2 hole all year

 

[Gaddis]

Two steals for the big man today.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

best or one of the best OBPs on the team. gets him on base for other guys behind him to drive in.also, his average with runners in scoring position is almost historically bad. he has absolutely no business being in a position to bat behind guys who are consistently getting on base.

Adam Dunn's strengths: 1. Power2. Terrific eye at the plate leading to high on base percentages. 3. Sees a lot of pitches which allows Freel the opportunity to run wild on the bases. Adam Dunn's weaknesses:1. Situational hitting, especially driving in runs. Original poster says he always has a ton of RBIs. He hit 40+ HRs last season and couldn't even break 100 RBIs because he's been such a poor hitter situationally. That's supposed to change this season.2. Strikeouts. K's aren't as much of a problem in the two hole because you're not as likely to be hitting with runners in scoring position. With nobody on base, a strike out is not different than any other out. With runners in scoring position and less than two outs, a strike out is a rally killer and momentum drainer.He's most suited to hitting 3rd in the lineup, but with Narron's preference of going right-lefty all the way down the line-up 2nd works just fine. His game works better in the 2-hole than hitting 5th or 6th. Why would you assume a hitter should be batting 4th or 5th just because he hits for power? Look at the whole package.

 

[Keys Myaths]

2. Strikeouts. K's aren't as much of a problem

Fixed your post, you had unnecessary words.Strikeouts, when taken on an overall basis, have very little effect on how effective a particular hitter is.

 

[Greco]

2. Strikeouts. K's aren't as much of a problem

Fixed your post, you had unnecessary words.Strikeouts, when taken on an overall basis, have very little effect on how effective a particular hitter is.

As in, with men on base and less than two outs, Dunn often strikes out to keep the inning alive.

 

[Keys Myaths]

2. Strikeouts. K's aren't as much of a problem

Fixed your post, you had unnecessary words.Strikeouts, when taken on an overall basis, have very little effect on how effective a particular hitter is.

As in, with men on base and less than two outs, Dunn often strikes out to keep the inning alive.

That's one way of looking at it.But honestly, think about it. How much does a strikeout hurt versus a regular out? Okay, so you don't move a runner up every once in a while? Isn't that logically countered by the times you hit into the double play and completely destroy an inning?

 

[Greco]

2. Strikeouts. K's aren't as much of a problem

Fixed your post, you had unnecessary words.Strikeouts, when taken on an overall basis, have very little effect on how effective a particular hitter is.

As in, with men on base and less than two outs, Dunn often strikes out to keep the inning alive.

That's one way of looking at it.But honestly, think about it. How much does a strikeout hurt versus a regular out? Okay, so you don't move a runner up every once in a while? Isn't that logically countered by the times you hit into the double play and completely destroy an inning?

Exactly the point I was making.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

2. Strikeouts. K's aren't as much of a problem

Fixed your post, you had unnecessary words.Strikeouts, when taken on an overall basis, have very little effect on how effective a particular hitter is.

I'm very familiar with that philosophy, and, frankly, I consider it new age bunk. Much like with the clutch hitting argument, you'll never hear anyone actually associated with the game of baseball jump on board with the argument that "strikeouts don't hurt your team, they just hurt your feelings."

I do believe that strikeouts don't affect your total runs scored over the course of the season; however, they certainly do affect the consistency of your output. In addition to failing to consider how run scoring consistency affects a team's won/loss percentage, I've yet to come across the study that measures momentum on a baseball field. Whether they've found a way to measure it or not, momentum is a significant factor in the outcome of a baseball game.

Also, have you ever talked to a baseball player who said he enjoys it when his teammate keeps putting himself in a 2-strike hole with runners in scoring position because he's waiting for his homerun pitch rather than being a good teammate and getting the runner in from 3rd base? Baseball players aren't clueless out there. They know when a guy is playing winning baseball and putting the team first, and they know when a guy isn't on board with the program...whether it be by way of selfishness, habit or ignorance.

This is yet another argument where the sabermetricians will be reversing field in a few years saying they didn't really think it all the way through and didn't consider all of the factors. You know, like defensive metrics, clutch hitting, etc. But the little guys are so darned adamant about it in the meantime...

Amateur sabermetricians -- they run on batteries.

 

[Keys Myaths]

2. Strikeouts. K's aren't as much of a problem

Fixed your post, you had unnecessary words.Strikeouts, when taken on an overall basis, have very little effect on how effective a particular hitter is.

I'm very familiar with that philosophy, and, frankly, I consider it new age bunk. Much like with the clutch hitting argument, you'll never hear anyone actually associated with the game of baseball jump on board with the argument that "strikeouts don't hurt your team, they just hurt your feelings."

I do believe that strikeouts don't affect your total runs scored over the course of the season; however, they certainly do affect the consistency of your output. In addition to failing to consider how run scoring consistency affects a team's won/loss percentage, I've yet to come across the study that measures momentum on a baseball field. Whether they've found a way to measure it or not, momentum is a significant factor in the outcome of a baseball game.

Also, have you ever talked to a baseball player who said he enjoys it when his teammate keeps putting himself in a 2-strike hole with runners in scoring position because he's waiting for his homerun pitch rather than being a good teammate and getting the runner in from 3rd base? Baseball players aren't clueless out there. They know when a guy is playing winning baseball and putting the team first, and they know when a guy isn't on board with the program...whether it be by way of selfishness, habit or ignorance.

This is yet another argument where the sabermetricians will be reversing field in a few years saying they didn't really think it all the way through and didn't consider all of the factors. You know, like defensive metrics, clutch hitting, etc. But the little guys are so darned adamant about it in the meantime...

Amateur sabermetricians -- they run on batteries.

I accept a TON of the "old school" metrics...especially player makeup. But, to just ignore every advance that sabermetricians have made over the years is just plain ignorant.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

2. Strikeouts. K's aren't as much of a problem

Fixed your post, you had unnecessary words.Strikeouts, when taken on an overall basis, have very little effect on how effective a particular hitter is.

I'm very familiar with that philosophy, and, frankly, I consider it new age bunk. Much like with the clutch hitting argument, you'll never hear anyone actually associated with the game of baseball jump on board with the argument that "strikeouts don't hurt your team, they just hurt your feelings."

I do believe that strikeouts don't affect your total runs scored over the course of the season; however, they certainly do affect the consistency of your output. In addition to failing to consider how run scoring consistency affects a team's won/loss percentage, I've yet to come across the study that measures momentum on a baseball field. Whether they've found a way to measure it or not, momentum is a significant factor in the outcome of a baseball game.

Also, have you ever talked to a baseball player who said he enjoys it when his teammate keeps putting himself in a 2-strike hole with runners in scoring position because he's waiting for his homerun pitch rather than being a good teammate and getting the runner in from 3rd base? Baseball players aren't clueless out there. They know when a guy is playing winning baseball and putting the team first, and they know when a guy isn't on board with the program...whether it be by way of selfishness, habit or ignorance.

This is yet another argument where the sabermetricians will be reversing field in a few years saying they didn't really think it all the way through and didn't consider all of the factors. You know, like defensive metrics, clutch hitting, etc. But the little guys are so darned adamant about it in the meantime...

Amateur sabermetricians -- they run on batteries.

I accept a TON of the "old school" metrics...especially player makeup. But, to just ignore every advance that sabermetricians have made over the years is just plain ignorant.

Please highlight the part where I ignore ANY advances that sabermetricians have made. Pretty please. Just feel free to quote it, bold it and put it right down here for everyone to see. Keep in mind that disagreeing with a particular notion is a far cry from ignoring an advance.I whole heartedly appreciate and embrace the advances that expert analysts like Bill James, Eddie Epstein, Rob Neyer, Voros McCracken, John Thorn, Pete Palmer, et al. have contributed to the baseball world. He11, I've said for quite some time that Bill James would be my ideal MLB commissioner. Even better, Moneyball is one of the top handful of baseball books I've read, right behind Bill James' Historical Abstract and several of his annuals.

What I'm saying is that the legions of nerds that the movement has sprung completely miss the point of the movement. It was started as a way of questioning conventional wisdom. It was begun to combat narrow-mindedness and skin-deep thinking about baseball. Unfortunately, the nerds who like to play at analyst have been bogged under orthodoxy for years (and even more unfortunately, the internet is littered with their species). They don't question sabermetric tenets. They've fallen prone to the same stringent thinking that the movement was against from the beginning. They attack rather than consider. It's no surprise, really. All revolutions behave this way...survival is a basic instinct.

One of the things that really makes Bill James stand out compared to his trekkies is that he is constantly challenging his own thinking. While they dogmatically protect his, he's moving on to new areas and questioning whether he was right all along. That's admirable. Would that his spawn followed his lead on that score...

Like I said, the amateur ones run on batteries. You just have to pat them on head occasionally...

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Frankly, it might be the best place for him. His career OBP is very good, he has some speed for a big man, and has never been very good at driving in runners despite his power.

If this guy could just hit .290 and cut his Ks in half, he'd be absolutely deadly. It'll never happen.

 

[bucs4life_99]

FWIW, Dunn was batting third in the lineup behind Freel and Phillips.

Personally, I think it should stay that way. Dunn is equally qualified for the 2 or the 3, but I think Phillips has a bit more speed than Dunn and is a better fit in the 2 hole.

 

[shuke]

This guy gets a ton of HR's and RBI's each year and it would only make sense to have him batting 3rd, 4th, or 5th in the lineup. Today for example he is batting second while 2B Brandon Phillips is batting 3rd? I just don't understand it? Thoughts?

Narron said he wanted to split up the left-handers (Dunn, Griffey, Hatteberg) in the lineup this year.So when Hatteberg is in the lineup, you'll get this 1. Freel2. Dunn3. Phillips4. Griffey5. Encarnacion6. Hatteberg7. Gonzalez8. RossWhen Conine is in, you'll see1. Freel2. Phillips3. Dunn4. Encarnacion5. Griffey6. Conine7. Gonzalez8. Ross

 

[shuke]

Two steals for the big man today.

Be aware that he was on the back end of a double steal behind Freel both times, so don't get too excited.

 

[DoubleG]

I thought it was just because "Dunn" came before "Griffey" alphabetically...

 

[Disco Stu]

What's with all the steals so far?

4 SB in 2005

7 SB in 2006

6 SB in April 2007

I'm thinking about trying to move him, but if those steals aren't a fluke I may just sit tight.

 

[Sammy3469]

What's with all the steals so far?

4 SB in 2005

7 SB in 2006

6 SB in April 2007

I'm thinking about trying to move him, but if those steals aren't a fluke I may just sit tight.

Supposedly it'll continue link

 

[Capella]

What's with all the steals so far?

4 SB in 2005

7 SB in 2006

6 SB in April 2007

I'm thinking about trying to move him, but if those steals aren't a fluke I may just sit tight.

Supposedly it'll continue link

 

[Sammy3469]

What's with all the steals so far?

4 SB in 2005

7 SB in 2006

6 SB in April 2007

I'm thinking about trying to move him, but if those steals aren't a fluke I may just sit tight.

Supposedly it'll continue link

With the way he's hitting, he may have turned a corner and become a fantasy stud in any format not just OBP leagues.

 

[Limp Ditka]

What's with all the steals so far?

4 SB in 2005

7 SB in 2006

6 SB in April 2007

I'm thinking about trying to move him, but if those steals aren't a fluke I may just sit tight.

Supposedly it'll continue link

With the way he's hitting, he may have turned a corner and become a fantasy stud in any format not just OBP leagues.

League leader in Ks with 33 in just 25 games. Reality, which is south of .250, is probably right around the corner.

 

[shuke]

What's with all the steals so far?4 SB in 20057 SB in 20066 SB in April 2007 I'm thinking about trying to move him, but if those steals aren't a fluke I may just sit tight.

You might want to check how many of those were the backends of double steals behind Freel.The throw to second on last night's steal went into center.

 

[shuke]

What's with all the steals so far?

4 SB in 2005

7 SB in 2006

6 SB in April 2007

I'm thinking about trying to move him, but if those steals aren't a fluke I may just sit tight.

Supposedly it'll continue link

With the way he's hitting, he may have turned a corner and become a fantasy stud in any format not just OBP leagues.

"the way he's hitting"? He's been horrible the past couple weeks.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

This guy gets a ton of HR's and RBI's each year and it would only make sense to have him batting 3rd, 4th, or 5th in the lineup. Today for example he is batting second while 2B Brandon Phillips is batting 3rd? I just don't understand it? Thoughts?

Narron said he wanted to split up the left-handers (Dunn, Griffey, Hatteberg) in the lineup this year.So when Hatteberg is in the lineup, you'll get this 1. Freel2. Dunn3. Phillips4. Griffey5. Encarnacion6. Hatteberg7. Gonzalez8. RossWhen Conine is in, you'll see1. Freel2. Phillips3. Dunn4. Encarnacion5. Griffey6. Conine7. Gonzalez8. Ross

*cough*Hamilton*cough*