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Covid and School This Fall (2 Viewers)

Sports have been ramping up at our schools over the past couple weeks. Last week a girl on the Field Hockey team tested positive prompting half the team to immediately leave and get tested and stop going to practice while the other half of the team acted like nothing was happening and refused to wear masks or social distance. There was a funeral for a student over the weekend with many students in attendance (and hugging, crying, etc).Today I heard there are now 3 girls on the FH team that are positive along with 1 kid on the volleyball team and 1 kid on the soccer team. There's really no way this is happening.  :kicksrock:

 
alabama is supposedly going forward with school this fall
I assume you mean in person?  I haven’t heard of any districts cancelling school - I think I heard some considering delaying.

I said it a while back - this is probably our toughest decisions collectively as a nation.  Educating our young people is a moral imperative - it also helps our economy and provides services and resources to many that are in need.  But we have to weigh that with the health of the kids and the spread of the virus.

 
That is fine if a district is able to do this, but this puts an incredible strain on staffing needs for a district.
I really don't think most school districts are factoring in the extra work load for teachers.

If you have a hybrid approach - those teachers are in-school every day, but also having to deal with email questions from the students who are remote.

Oh, and states, cities/counties are in a real budget crunch with school budgets usually among the first to get cut - which means schools will be doing more, with fewer resources...

 
That is fine if a district is able to do this, but this puts an incredible strain on staffing needs for a district.
Can you explain what you had in mind?   I was thinking more of you're teaching class as normal and there's a projector screen in the back that has the kids on display that are logged in virtually so the teacher is addressing both at the same time.   

 
I think it will depend on where you are and how good the safety measures are.  I don’t see any reason some of these states that haven’t seen big number and seem to have a handle on things can’t go ahead with in person.  I just hope all school systems are prepared to stop if needed and don’t become stubborn about remaining in person. 


If they go on-line, they need to have live classes IMO. My youngest had at most, a half hour of work to do each day. It was a complete waste of time. 


We are such a weird mix of local rule and school district power here.

My kids won't be going into a school building this fall regardless of what they come up with. But we are blessed with the ability to do that.  I know others don't have that ability.


All of the bolded has me seriously considering signing up to Home School our kids for the Fall Semester (8th and 11th Grade).  Anyone else looked into this recently?

We live in a small community in CO Rocky Mountains and we only had 10 total confirmed cases in June.  But we "opened the doors" and tourists from all over the country have been blasting through here over the last 4-6 weeks.  Our numbers just spiked for the first time this week and I think this is just the beginning as the true impacts of the July tourist season will hit us hardest by end of August, right when school should be starting.    

Maybe the teachers will be more prepared this semester, but if they're forced into a hybrid and/or part-time schooling I see the majority of teachers struggling under these circumstances.

 
Can you explain what you had in mind?   I was thinking more of you're teaching class as normal and there's a projector screen in the back that has the kids on display that are logged in virtually so the teacher is addressing both at the same time.   
not sure what the projector screen would do - its not like the kids could be viewing from that projector screen...

And, I imagine it would be difficult, if not impossible for a teacher to stay in view of his/her laptop while walking around the classroom, or when writing on a board.  Best case scenario is that teachers put lessons into power point presentations that can be uploaded for kids to access remotely, but then you are dividing their screen attention between some lecture and some power point.

Virtual teaching <> simply showing an in-class session via zoom.

My kids are taking a free virtual class from Stanford this summer (A very old into Computer Science class) - and while that is essentially a video of lectures, there are several cameras in play, and the ability to focus on things written on the chalk board, as well as things put up on the in-class monitor, and following the professor when he moves around.  These are things outside the scope af any K-12 teachers.

 
All of the bolded has me seriously considering signing up to Home School our kids for the Fall Semester (8th and 11th Grade).  Anyone else looked into this recently?
My wife and I talked about this. We are lucky in that she can work from home, so we just decided that she could manage their workload. The way we see it is the school district has already developed the curriculum so we just figured we can follow that and not have to learn a whole new process.

 
Can you explain what you had in mind?   I was thinking more of you're teaching class as normal and there's a projector screen in the back that has the kids on display that are logged in virtually so the teacher is addressing both at the same time.   
Yeah, this is what I would hope for in a dream scenario. Or there is just a camera at the back that shows the teacher giving lessons in real time and streamed so the kids at home could watch it. That way the teacher just presents the lesson once and all the kids can see it in real-time.

 
not sure what the projector screen would do - its not like the kids could be viewing from that projector screen...

And, I imagine it would be difficult, if not impossible for a teacher to stay in view of his/her laptop while walking around the classroom, or when writing on a board.  Best case scenario is that teachers put lessons into power point presentations that can be uploaded for kids to access remotely, but then you are dividing their screen attention between some lecture and some power point.

Virtual teaching <> simply showing an in-class session via zoom.

My kids are taking a free virtual class from Stanford this summer (A very old into Computer Science class) - and while that is essentially a video of lectures, there are several cameras in play, and the ability to focus on things written on the chalk board, as well as things put up on the in-class monitor, and following the professor when he moves around.  These are things outside the scope af any K-12 teachers.
I'm not sure about the capabilities of zoom.   Maybe a wide angle camera so the virtual kids can see the teacher moving around while speaking and another camera that's focused on a part of the white board.   I'm not sure if that's expecting too much.  The projector screen is more so the teacher can see the virtual students engaged and also giving them an opportunity to notify the teacher if they want to ask a question.   The scenario I'm picturing is that most kids will show up in person.   For those who maybe have underlying health conditions or whose parents just don't want to take the risk, this gives them an option of still receiving some semblance of learning.   Based on what I witnessed during the spring, its not too far in terms of the quality of education they were receiving by going fully virtual.  If most parents would rather go virtual, then just do virtual.  Maybe then for those kids that don't have that option b/c they don't have wifi for instance, they can come into school and use the school network along with a chromebook provided by the school.  

 
Can you explain what you had in mind?   I was thinking more of you're teaching class as normal and there's a projector screen in the back that has the kids on display that are logged in virtually so the teacher is addressing both at the same time.   
Lesson design for an online environment is fundamentally different than it is for in person interaction.  What works for one does not necessarily work well for the other.  This is why so many people had such poor experiences in the spring of last year.  Students, teachers, and schools were in one mode and suddenly tried to transition to the other. You simply can not teach in the same manner effectively.  If you have to address the needs of the "at home" crowd during the same session as you describe, they might as well all be at home.   For schools offering a virtual option, they are more likely to designate certain staff to be online teacher and other staff in-person teachers.  This simply requires more staff.  It probably works better at the elementary level where a district can group at home kids together into cohorts with an assigned online teacher.  At the high school level, however, classes are specialized.  You don't want me teaching economics or band.  Likewise, there is no one else in the school who can teach the physics that I do.  I teach AP Physics, physics, and physical science.  For me to teach 3 different classes both online and in person is not very realistic.  I may be able to pull something off, but it won't be effective instruction for anyone.

 
not sure what the projector screen would do - its not like the kids could be viewing from that projector screen...

And, I imagine it would be difficult, if not impossible for a teacher to stay in view of his/her laptop while walking around the classroom, or when writing on a board.  Best case scenario is that teachers put lessons into power point presentations that can be uploaded for kids to access remotely, but then you are dividing their screen attention between some lecture and some power point.

Virtual teaching <> simply showing an in-class session via zoom.

My kids are taking a free virtual class from Stanford this summer (A very old into Computer Science class) - and while that is essentially a video of lectures, there are several cameras in play, and the ability to focus on things written on the chalk board, as well as things put up on the in-class monitor, and following the professor when he moves around.  These are things outside the scope af any K-12 teachers.
Let's add to this the fact that lecture is probably one of the least effective methodologies for promoting effective learning.

 
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Lesson design for an online environment is fundamentally different than it is for in person interaction.  What works for one does not necessarily work well for the other.  This is why so many people had such poor experiences in the spring of last year.  Students, teachers, and schools were in one mode and suddenly tried to transition to the other. You simply can not teach in the same manner effectively.  If you have to address the needs of the "at home" crowd during the same session as you describe, they might as well all be at home.   For schools offering a virtual option, they are more likely to designate certain staff to be online teacher and other staff in-person teachers.  This simply requires more staff.  It probably works better at the elementary level where a district can group at home kids together into cohorts with an assigned online teacher.  At the high school level, however, classes are specialized.  You don't want me teaching economics or band.  Likewise, there is no one else in the school who can teach the physics that I do.  I teach AP Physics, physics, and physical science.  For me to teach 3 different classes both online and in person is not very realistic.  I may be able to pull something off, but it won't be effective instruction for anyone.
If most parents want to go in person and the school goes that route, I'd think what I'm suggesting is better then nothing for those kids whose parents do not want to send them in since schools don't have the resources to offer an alternative purely virtual option.     Its been many years since I've been in a classroom but I'd think that the majority of classes throughout the grades still follow some semblance of the approach where there's a teacher in front of the class addressing the students.   If your suggestion is that we go solely virtual, then we can just agree to disagree since I want my kids in the classroom.  

 
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I assume you mean in person?  I haven’t heard of any districts cancelling school - I think I heard some considering delaying.

I said it a while back - this is probably our toughest decisions collectively as a nation.  Educating our young people is a moral imperative - it also helps our economy and provides services and resources to many that are in need.  But we have to weigh that with the health of the kids and the spread of the virus.
in person.  they are giving the parents the choice to keep their kids at home and can distance learn.  mine is going.

 
Because sue happy Sue will lose her #### if a kid gets Covid because the schools didn't protect her darling daughter.   School policies are so ridiculous because of these parents
I know right? Crazy to want to protect your kid's health and welfare. It's not just about the kids of course. What happens when teachers started dying? Just keep on keeping on?

 
I know right? Crazy to want to protect your kid's health and welfare. It's not just about the kids of course. What happens when teachers started dying? Just keep on keeping on?
Most likely get better and get back to work in 2 weeks. They are going to distance and wear masks.  Should all folks working in grocery stores stay home as well?

 
I am not sure how schools just dont bite the bullet and try option 1 at first and see how it goes.  Families are just not set up for virtual teaching.


Because sue happy Sue will lose her #### if a kid gets Covid because the schools didn't protect her darling daughter.   School policies are so ridiculous because of these parents


How much of that is parents, and how much is that teachers/staff saying - "Hey, maybe I don't want to teach in a petri dish this fall!"
If they're offering a choice, as most are, then nobody should be in a position to complain.  Of course they will, but you have them all sign waivers of liability.  No parent should be forced to stay home and forego an income to teach their child unless their taxes are significantly reduced and the school board budgets are slashed.  If teachers don't want to teach then that's their choice, just like all of the other people who have to decide whether or not they want to return to work during a pandemic.  Don't expect parents to teach the kids AND pay your salaries though.   

 
Yeah, this is what I would hope for in a dream scenario. Or there is just a camera at the back that shows the teacher giving lessons in real time and streamed so the kids at home could watch it. That way the teacher just presents the lesson once and all the kids can see it in real-time.
It should also be recorded so students can view anytime of day to fit their family's unique work/life situation.

 
If they're offering a choice, as most are, then nobody should be in a position to complain.  Of course they will, but you have them all sign waivers of liability.  No parent should be forced to stay home and forego an income to teach their child unless their taxes are significantly reduced and the school board budgets are slashed.  If teachers don't want to teach then that's their choice, just like all of the other people who have to decide whether or not they want to return to work during a pandemic.  Don't expect parents to teach the kids AND pay your salaries though.   
yeah we just did that this past spring and it was terrible

 
Most likely get better and get back to work in 2 weeks. They are going to distance and wear masks.  Should all folks working in grocery stores stay home as well?
There's an age factor, as lots of teachers are in their 50s and 60s, whereas clerks tend to be much younger. All lives matter, but teachers are harder to replace. 

Can teachers be surrounded by a plastic shield? Serious proposition.

 
Most likely get better and get back to work in 2 weeks. They are going to distance and wear masks.  Should all folks working in grocery stores stay home as well?
Apples and oranges. Schooling can be done remotely, stocking shelves cannot. Everyone should be doing online ordering and curbside pickup though to help protect our essential grocery workers.

 
I wish we had the option to choose. I'd definitely choose 100% in person learning. His education is much too important for such a miniscule risk and remote learning was a huge fail for him last year. He's going into junior high school and has an IEP.

 
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There's an age factor, as lots of teachers are in their 50s and 60s, whereas clerks tend to be much younger. All lives matter, but teachers are harder to replace. 

Can teachers be surrounded by a plastic shield? Serious proposition.
Their choice to go back to work

 
There's an age factor, as lots of teachers are in their 50s and 60s, whereas clerks tend to be much younger. All lives matter, but teachers are harder to replace. 

Can teachers be surrounded by a plastic shield? Serious proposition.
Interesting idea. I saw video from South Korea where the kids had plastic dividers up on their tables to separate each other. They also had masks and plastic face shields and had hand washing routines. Not sure that little kids are going to be able to strictly follow that though, at least not here in our culture.

 
Again, these jobs cannot be done remotely. Teaching can. It's been done successfully for years. 
I disagree with you on teaching can be done remotely. Maybe in college. Good luck doing it in elementary school where a lot of kids can't afford the technology and parents are working two jobs and do not have time to help their child.

 
This argument isn't really about teachers, students, classrooms, etc. It's about how school has become relied upon daycare for working parents. I get that. It's an extremely difficult position to be in and I'm grateful we are both able to work from home. Also grateful that my kids are old enough to be at home by themselves if need be. Not ideal but safety comes first. I also respect what some of you have said about your kids struggle with online learning. I realize it hasn't came out that way. There are no easy answers here. My default response has been where and whenever possible stay at home and minimize risk. We need to do so en masse if we have any chance of beating back the virus and holding on for a vaccine. Options are always appreciated for people in different situations. I would just encourage those that have the option to do school remotely to do so. Hope your kids, teachers, and families stay safe this school year.

 
I disagree with you on teaching can be done remotely. Maybe in college. Good luck doing it in elementary school where a lot of kids can't afford the technology and parents are working two jobs and do not have time to help their child.
It has been done for years. Of course it may not be for everyone.

 
This argument isn't really about teachers, students, classrooms, etc. It's about how school has become relied upon daycare for working parents. I get that. It's an extremely difficult position to be in and I'm grateful we are both able to work from home. Also grateful that my kids are old enough to be at home by themselves if need be. Not ideal but safety comes first. I also respect what some of you have said about your kids struggle with online learning. I realize it hasn't came out that way. There are no easy answers here. My default response has been where and whenever possible stay at home and minimize risk. We need to do so en masse if we have any chance of beating back the virus and holding on for a vaccine. Options are always appreciated for people in different situations. I would just encourage those that have the option to do school remotely to do so. Hope your kids, teachers, and families stay safe this school year.
glad you are not making the decisions where i live

 
It has been done for years. Of course it may not be for everyone.
Not in the real world our school district lives in. Full time virtual learning would be really hard here. And I live in a decent district. In some of the lower income districts here in Kansas City it would be an economic disaster. And a massive disadvantage for those kids.

 
cap'n grunge said:
This argument isn't really about teachers, students, classrooms, etc. It's about how school has become relied upon daycare for working parents. I get that. It's an extremely difficult position to be in and I'm grateful we are both able to work from home. Also grateful that my kids are old enough to be at home by themselves if need be. Not ideal but safety comes first. I also respect what some of you have said about your kids struggle with online learning. I realize it hasn't came out that way. There are no easy answers here. My default response has been where and whenever possible stay at home and minimize risk. We need to do so en masse if we have any chance of beating back the virus and holding on for a vaccine. Options are always appreciated for people in different situations. I would just encourage those that have the option to do school remotely to do so. Hope your kids, teachers, and families stay safe this school year.
I can certainly see that for younger kids.  I'm also wfh and my kids are older enough to be home like yours.   I want my kids in school.   Even under the best of circumstances, online learning isn't nearly as good as in person.   Maybe, just maybe, if we were going to go back to full lockdown and put this virus behind us, I'd be behind virtual learning for a couple of months, but that ship has sailed.  We had our chance and we blew it.   

 
I can certainly see that for younger kids.  I'm also wfh and my kids are older enough to be home like yours.   I want my kids in school.   Even under the best of circumstances, online learning isn't nearly as good as in person.   Maybe, just maybe, if we were going to go back to full lockdown and put this virus behind us, I'd be behind virtual learning for a couple of months, but that ship has sailed.  We had our chance and we blew it.   
Agree that we blew it but I'll do my best to mitigate the lack of leadership and the effects on the safety of my family. Bonus points if I help keep our hospitals from going over the tipping point which they are dangerously close to right now. 

 
Agree that we blew it but I'll do my best to mitigate the lack of leadership and the effects on the safety of my family. Bonus points if I help keep our hospitals from going over the tipping point which they are dangerously close to right now. 
I'm not too concerned about my family.   Both parents are young and healthy (I know that doesn't make us immune, but far less likely to experience serious consequences) but I am concerned about a surge and this is why I like what Cuomo is doing.  He's not going full in person, consequences be damned.   He's saying that if the virus is under control (the metric they're going off of is <5% infection rate over a 2 week period), then in person school can proceed.   If there's a surge (>9% infection rate in one week), then they shut down.   

 
I need to stop responding to this thread. I'm coming off as condescending and rigid to other viewpoints and that's not cool. This is obviously an extremely difficult position for all parents. I apologize for my tone. This whole situation just has me really irritable and angry at alot of humans right now. 😐

 
cap'n grunge said:
I don't believe this has been scientifically proven.
German Study  - My preference for my kids (going into 10th, 8th and 4th grades) would be to keep them home for at least the fall semester, but this study from Germany seems promising. Granted, from my recollection, Germany had a much better handle on the virus at the time they went back to school compared to where we currently are at in many places, and I would want to see additional studies and review of them complete before I'd be more comfortable with the results.

That said, I also am very fortunate that I am in a position where I can handle online learning - my kids are old enough to be at home if needed, for the most part I am able to work from home if need be, and we have the technology at our house to enable distance learning. But I realize not everyone is in that position, and I don't believe there is a one size fits all solution.

Regarding teachers, I would like to think that with an entire summer to adjust, and had they been given adequate time to prepare, that a potential adjustment to distance learning would be much smoother and effective. One analogy I saw (I don't believe it was here, if it was apologies for butchering it) was that in the spring, when given essentially a weekend to adapt, teachers were more in a triage mode to have something going on. Some were able to make the adaption quicker/more efficiently than others, some were not. Same goes for parents - some were able to make the adaption, some were not.

Additionally, many schools and/or teachers are also not set up with the infrastructure to handle remote learning. I know locally they have found the funding to put up the plexiglass shields around desks and are working on other physical barriers and plans, which includes having students sitting in alternating rows, switching those between classes - so for example if a classroom has 6 rows of desks, in period 1, the kids sit in the odd number rows, in period 2, they sit in the even number rows, then have a deep clean period, rinse and repeat. Personally, I think the funding that was found for this would have been better spent on upgrading the technological infrastructure (improved network connectivity on campuses, etc.) so that teachers could teach from the classroom and stream to students online. As it currently is, I don't believe any of the local schools are set up to be able to handle the kind of network traffic that streaming 60-70 classes (for junior high/high schools) simultaneously would require.

I don't know what the answer is - I want to take teacher/staff safety into consideration as much as possible. I am intrigued by one of the ideas presented above where you could have certain classrooms designated for students to do remote learning, while teachers could be set up in other classrooms to conduct the class online for all in the class. This would require some creative scheduling as many schools likely do not have the space to do this separately, but perhaps the schools within the district could really come together on this, where certain campuses have the students (with lower risk staff supervising) and a different campus was used to conduct the teaching from, so at risk staff could keep up major social distancing. This would also provide greater structure for the at home learners with a set schedule where they had to tune in to their class, which could help alleviate one of the main complaints I had and heard about the initial switch, which was a lack of structure (obviously some adapt to this well, others not so much - my then 7th grader did well as he liked getting all his assignments for the week on Sunday night/Monday morning and he would work real hard to try finish them all in the first couple of days of the week so he could have more free time the rest of the week - my older son would more likely put off until the day before something was due)

 
I need to stop responding to this thread. I'm coming off as condescending and rigid to other viewpoints and that's not cool. This is obviously an extremely difficult position for all parents. I apologize for my tone. This whole situation just has me really irritable and angry at alot of humans right now. 😐
Its all good man.   These are tough times for a lot of people.  

 
NutterButter said:
If most parents want to go in person and the school goes that route, I'd think what I'm suggesting is better then nothing for those kids whose parents do not want to send them in since schools don't have the resources to offer an alternative purely virtual option.     Its been many years since I've been in a classroom but I'd think that the majority of classes throughout the grades still follow some semblance of the approach where there's a teacher in front of the class addressing the students.   If your suggestion is that we go solely virtual, then we can just agree to disagree since I want my kids in the classroom.  
I am just pointing out differences and do not think it would work well to try to do both at once.  Make no mistake, I want to get back in the classroom.  I want the personal interaction.  I thrive in the classroom environment and did not particularly care for the virtual setting.  My order of preference would be:  

full return (if possible) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  fully remote >>>>>  hybrid  >  your suggestion of simultaneous remote and on site. 

I can't speak for everybody, but very little of my instruction revolves around me at the front of the class.  I try to maintain a much more collaborative environment where students are learning with each other and from each other.  I try to let students discover relationships and laws of nature through our experimental and practical experiences.  This is the true nature of science.  I very rarely give lectures, notes, or slide presentation stuff.

 

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