Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Worst thread ever.
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Cowboy Carter by Beyonce (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
She can sing all the country she wants as far as I’m concerned.
This ain’t it. She wears a cowboy hat so it’s country? Nah
Kanil
Footballguy
I read somewhere that she wasn't originally planning on the Jolene cover but Dolly said in some interview that she'd love to see Beyonce cover "my little old song". I thought the cover did a good job of making Jolene in her own style. Really liked it.
Nugget
Footballguy
My daughter was hoping for a Beyoncé/Taylor collab. I don’t think the internet could have survived it.
timschochet
Footballguy
Some of that opera stuff reminded me of Freddie Mercury and that band he was in.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Beyoncé said herself “This ain’t a Country album. This is a Beyoncé album.” The album is more about bending and blending genres, taking some country, mixing it with R&B and rock.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I didn’t say Beyoncé wasn’t smart.
I didn’t say she was not country
I didn’t say it wasn’t any good
I didn’t say that she did anything wrong
I am just making fun of all the same usual characters, all falling over themselves to love some thing for other than the artist performance.
By all means, post links to all the other country artist album threads.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Ugh!!!! I hate it when people have opinions different from mine please make it go away.!!!!!!!
timschochet
Footballguy
But what is country anyhow?
I’ve always loved certain country artists: Townes Van Zandt, Patsy Cline, Emmylou Harris, the Chicks, Sugarland, a few others. I really don’t like Garth Brooks or several artists who sound like him. What distinguishes them? Who is country and who isn’t?
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
I don’t think it’s about who is country and who isn’t. Im talking about what is country and what isn’t. Everything I read said “Beyoncé is putting out a country album “.
Cool, I thought I’d check it out. I wanted to like it. I did not
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I didn’t come up with the genres, I assume the artist did. At some point all the record companies have taken over and none of it is the same.
I fully admit that I hold musical artist to a different standard than how many records they sold, or how catchy the computer generated auto tune is.
Can they sing?
Miley Cyrus, Kelly Clarkson, Adele, Dia Lupa, Lauryn Hill when she wants to, Whitney, and my beloved Linda Ronstadt - all amazingly talented vocalists.
They had what others didn’t, (actual talent) and therefore couldn’t be controlled like these new artists who are studio produced.
The General
Footballguy
Joliene cover is like glorified karaoke version.
squistion
Footballguy
Like a lot of other genres of music, Soul, Jazz, Dance Music, etc., there are sub-categories for Country.
For Country, besides Traditional Country (however you wish to define that, Hank Williams, George Jones, Patsy Cline, etc.) you have Country Rock, Alt Country, Outlaw Country, Pop Country, and probably a couple I forgot.
I have classified the tracks I've posted off this album (here and on another forum, plus Twitter) under the categories of: Country, Pop Country, Pop Music, Alt Country and Country Rock (but I am not sure how accurate any of those labels are).
the moops
Footballguy
I honesty have no idea what we are arguing about anymore.
Maybe we can argue over whether she should be signing a reggae song with a white guy
www.youtube.com
Maybe we can argue over whether she should be signing a reggae song with a white guy
Eddie Vedder feat. Beyoncé - Redemption Song @Global Citizen Festival 2015
Eddie Vedder feat. Beyoncé - Redemption Song @Global Citizen Festival 2015Todos los derechos reservados para MSNBCNo somos propietarios de las imageneswww.fa...
www.youtube.com
Ilov80s
Footballguy
And I think the really weird posts were actually removed by the modsI finally made it through to the end of Cowboy Carter and came in here thinking it's great that this board has spent 3 pages discussing a new Beyonce album.
The General
Footballguy
Music is subjective and all but if you think this album is amazing or whatnot you are not welcome to DJ my party or control the radio on road trips 
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
man I hate it when people put a gun to my head and force me into a thread about a subject I don't like...
General Malaise
Footballguy
Music is subjective and all but if you think this album is amazing or whatnot you are not welcome to DJ my party or control the radio on road trips
When I listen to the song Alligator Tears, the guitar riff almost has a Radiohead sound to it - Paranoid Android opening guitar to be specific.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Some more days on, the song that I find myself re-listening to the most is “Protector.” Pretty simple lullaby, but the stripped down production with mostly just an acoustic guitar accompaniment really brings out her voice. And maternal lyrics about protecting and being proud of her kids hits all the right feels.
youtu.be
Beyoncé, Rumi Carter - PROTECTOR (Official Lyric Video)
Listen & Download ‘COWBOY CARTER’: https://beyonce.lnk.to/COWBOYCARTERAmazon Music - https://beyonce.lnk.to/COWBOYCARTER/amazonmusicApple Music - https://bey...
youtu.be
FairWarning
Footballguy
I didn’t know a song she did, now I do - Jolene.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
It’s on streaming services. I subscribe to Apple Music. A number of the music folks here use Spotify.So this will be old man chat but
Are you guys purchasing the album or is it included in some streaming service?
You can tell the last time I listened to new music
Also can listen through YouTube.
FairWarning
Footballguy
No dog in the fight, but would rather the artist control their music vs music executives and marketers. Granted few are successful enough to do it.
General Malaise
Footballguy
So this will be old man chat but
Are you guys purchasing the album or is it included in some streaming service?
You can tell the last time I listened to new music
Spotify but I'll he buying the vinyl for my son for his birthday. It's purchase worthy for record collectors.
Goldminer1
Footballguy
I haven't listened to this album. I am an elder Millennial. I still know the words to multiple Destiny's Child songs and late 90s/00s Beyonce songs.
What I think is being lost here - is that she is an - ARTIST. What is good art supposed to do? Get people to talk and discuss and debate and think.
How many albums are released that aren't turned into their own individual threads in the FFA, because nobody cares about them? Beyonce's art, got people talking about what is or isn't country music. What is allowed to be considered part of one genre but not another. What type of person is allowed in certain areas of music or culture.
I honestly don't care if the music is terrible or not, she got people talking about things that are more important than the songs she sings. That is what art is supposed to do. She did it. Good for her.
Somewhere Marcel Duchamp and his "fountain" are smiling.
What I think is being lost here - is that she is an - ARTIST. What is good art supposed to do? Get people to talk and discuss and debate and think.
How many albums are released that aren't turned into their own individual threads in the FFA, because nobody cares about them? Beyonce's art, got people talking about what is or isn't country music. What is allowed to be considered part of one genre but not another. What type of person is allowed in certain areas of music or culture.
I honestly don't care if the music is terrible or not, she got people talking about things that are more important than the songs she sings. That is what art is supposed to do. She did it. Good for her.
Somewhere Marcel Duchamp and his "fountain" are smiling.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Jack White likes her album. That's enough validation for me.
www.yahoo.com
Beyoncé Wants Jack White to Know How Much He Inspired ‘Cowboy Carter’
"Nobody sings like you," White wrote about Queen Bey
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Interesting to read that. I was thinking when I was listening that reminded me a little bit of the Van Lear Rose album that he did with Loretta Lynn, in terms of mixing country with some other genres.Jack White likes her album. That's enough validation for me.
Beyoncé Wants Jack White to Know How Much He Inspired ‘Cowboy Carter’
"Nobody sings like you," White wrote about Queen Bey
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yep and this a clear example of an artist in control.
Manster
Footballguy
The newer country that's fused pop, and hip hop is pretty bad, imo. Gimme John Anderson, Dwight Yoakum, George Strait. That's country.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Outlaw country is delightful.
Bro country is satan's taint.
Bro country is satan's taint.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Never heard of this
General Malaise
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Man, poptimism and its discontents is a weird thing.
I mean, you can see the obvious sociopolitical divide in who likes this album and is effusive in their praise versus who doesn't like it and says so. It couldn't be any clearer. Ring a bell on a cold morning and it'll surely lead you to it.
Imagine the conceptual framework that must exist to get us here.
I don't even think either side is being dishonest and going too far beyond the music to reach a conclusion. Well, maybe I do, actually. But it doesn't make anybody a bad person or anything.
All I know is what my niece and stepniece said when we were talking about Beyonce and I said I didn't care for her. Both young girls who are ardent feminists protested with, "Of course you don't like her. You're a guy. It's not meant for you."
I suppose this board begs to differ.
As for me, I'm probably not even going to waste my time with it. Not even that curious. I don't need to hear updated lyrics to Jolene or Beyonce's version of "Blackbird," which lifts the Beatles' exact backing track so that four singers can play karaoke on it. I couldn't possibly care less, and the only reason I'm commenting is that reading this thread reinforces how darn theoretical and ideological we've become about things. And how rigid and predictable everything is.
And I do mean theoretical/ideological. No way this just happens to be an almost exact sociopolitical bellwether unless there's something in the air and in the water.
What is so ironic is that a certain political outlook used to loathe industry music. The other side was the entity that gobbled it up, overproduced pop crap and all. But somehow the algorithms of pop changed the game and the culture wars were used to defend billionaires. It's all so wild. I never thought I'd see the day when smart, grown men would trip over themselves to appreciate music meant for people much less sophisticated and discerning. It's the lowest common denominator here, most likely, and we are defending it.
Another interesting thought and one I actually had, by Kat Rosenfield:
unherd.com
"The narrator of the original “Jolene” is decidedly not a badass — but this is the point, and something she is not ashamed to admit. She’s heartbroken at the idea of losing her man. But she’s no fool, either; she knows that her best chance of happiness requires playing on Jolene’s decency, woman to woman — or, possibly, pre-empting any man-stealing impulses Jolene might have had by respectfully flattering her into submission. Here I will admit that after listening to the song on repeat for the better part of a day, Parton’s lyrics started to remind me of the scene from The Hobbit where Bilbo Baggins attempts to disarm the dragon Smaug by bestowing upon him an increasingly flowery series of superlatives: Smaug the Magnificent. Smaug the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities. Smaug the Unassessably Wealthy! And as such, Smaug who surely has much better and more important things to do than eat a hobbit of no importance.
Maybe the narrator of Jolene is truly the pathetic, simpering creature she pretends to be. Or maybe she’s just figured out that the best way to get what you want from a more powerful person is to make her feel magnanimous about giving it to you. And while the new “Jolene” struts around with its chest out, making superficially feminist noises (and, as such, acts as catnip for Beyoncé’s fans), it’s Parton’s that imagines women in the greater fullness, that recognises female power as it exists beyond the shallow archetype of the badass *****. There is the soft power of the seductress, whose charms nobody can resist. And there’s the even softer power of the supplicant who — as another song would have it — ain’t too proud to beg."
I mean, you can see the obvious sociopolitical divide in who likes this album and is effusive in their praise versus who doesn't like it and says so. It couldn't be any clearer. Ring a bell on a cold morning and it'll surely lead you to it.
Imagine the conceptual framework that must exist to get us here.
I don't even think either side is being dishonest and going too far beyond the music to reach a conclusion. Well, maybe I do, actually. But it doesn't make anybody a bad person or anything.
All I know is what my niece and stepniece said when we were talking about Beyonce and I said I didn't care for her. Both young girls who are ardent feminists protested with, "Of course you don't like her. You're a guy. It's not meant for you."
I suppose this board begs to differ.
As for me, I'm probably not even going to waste my time with it. Not even that curious. I don't need to hear updated lyrics to Jolene or Beyonce's version of "Blackbird," which lifts the Beatles' exact backing track so that four singers can play karaoke on it. I couldn't possibly care less, and the only reason I'm commenting is that reading this thread reinforces how darn theoretical and ideological we've become about things. And how rigid and predictable everything is.
And I do mean theoretical/ideological. No way this just happens to be an almost exact sociopolitical bellwether unless there's something in the air and in the water.
What is so ironic is that a certain political outlook used to loathe industry music. The other side was the entity that gobbled it up, overproduced pop crap and all. But somehow the algorithms of pop changed the game and the culture wars were used to defend billionaires. It's all so wild. I never thought I'd see the day when smart, grown men would trip over themselves to appreciate music meant for people much less sophisticated and discerning. It's the lowest common denominator here, most likely, and we are defending it.
Another interesting thought and one I actually had, by Kat Rosenfield:
Has Beyoncé killed Jolene?
unherd.com
"The narrator of the original “Jolene” is decidedly not a badass — but this is the point, and something she is not ashamed to admit. She’s heartbroken at the idea of losing her man. But she’s no fool, either; she knows that her best chance of happiness requires playing on Jolene’s decency, woman to woman — or, possibly, pre-empting any man-stealing impulses Jolene might have had by respectfully flattering her into submission. Here I will admit that after listening to the song on repeat for the better part of a day, Parton’s lyrics started to remind me of the scene from The Hobbit where Bilbo Baggins attempts to disarm the dragon Smaug by bestowing upon him an increasingly flowery series of superlatives: Smaug the Magnificent. Smaug the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities. Smaug the Unassessably Wealthy! And as such, Smaug who surely has much better and more important things to do than eat a hobbit of no importance.
Maybe the narrator of Jolene is truly the pathetic, simpering creature she pretends to be. Or maybe she’s just figured out that the best way to get what you want from a more powerful person is to make her feel magnanimous about giving it to you. And while the new “Jolene” struts around with its chest out, making superficially feminist noises (and, as such, acts as catnip for Beyoncé’s fans), it’s Parton’s that imagines women in the greater fullness, that recognises female power as it exists beyond the shallow archetype of the badass *****. There is the soft power of the seductress, whose charms nobody can resist. And there’s the even softer power of the supplicant who — as another song would have it — ain’t too proud to beg."
timschochet
Footballguy
Thanks Rock. Interesting to me that kat Rosenfield, whoever that is, seems to know what Dolly intended for Jolene and meanwhile Dolly herself fully approves of Beyoncé’s changes and introduces the song on the album.
As far as the rest of your post, once again I have to take umbrage at the theory that I like this album for any reason other than I like the music and enjoy listening to it. Seriously if the tunes weren’t catchy nothing else would matter to me.
As far as the rest of your post, once again I have to take umbrage at the theory that I like this album for any reason other than I like the music and enjoy listening to it. Seriously if the tunes weren’t catchy nothing else would matter to me.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
That's always how I've listened to music. Strange but true.
rockaction
Footballguy
That's absolutely fine. You can take umbrage with it. I can't tell you your motivations for listening to it. All I can do is observe and note that it falls along neat partisan lines (almost) in regard to who likes this album and who doesn't in this thread. And I can't tell you that you wouldn't be starting this thread if not for the cultural zeitgeist. But knowing certain things I'll just say that it doesn't surprise me in the least that you started this thread. And that's not a negative. It's just the likelihood of it isn't stunning in the least.
rockaction
Footballguy
Sure. We pretty much do that. But there are social pressures, signaling, and cultural milieu to consider. These all play a role in our listening and assessments of what we're listening to—never mind our initial selection of what to hear. The gatekeeping function has to be breached first and foremost.
Nobody is immune to the outside world even when that comes to our sensory perceptions.
rockaction
Footballguy
Rosenfield is spot-on in her assessment of the songs if not in her normative arguments about the desirability of each. About that, I do not care. I'm not going into the feminist weeds on that one. But the song totally changes its dynamic if the changes to the lyrics that have been reported on are true. That's undeniable.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Music genre arguments are a fool's errand. I know because I've been the fool a few times on other platforms. I listened to most of this record on a long drive a few days ago. Would never have done so but for this thread. While "country" is a pretty big umbrella, its really hard for me to accept this record as coming anywhere within that category, but I'm not about to argue with the artist or anyone else who wants to call it country for any reason whatsoever. I'm a big fan of Rhiannon Giddens and was listening for her voice or her banjo but didn't hear it anywhere in the 6-7 songs I listened to. Definitely not my cup 'o tea but that's the cool thing about music. Saw a great country punk singer/songwriter chick rocking out at a ####hole bar in Milwaukee last night - Sarah Shook - who also defies the genre but I have no problem calling her country because despite the edge she oozes a twangy desperate country vibe on every song. Not a single cowboy hat on the stage though.
Phil Elliott
Footballguy
Taylor did start in country music.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Sarah Shook's "Dwight Yokam" is a favorite song of mine. Good choice, GB.
