Crabtree or Nicks? (1 Viewer)

[Carolina Hustler]

#3 Crabtree commands more targets based on being the best WR on the team. Without question the best WR on the team, I don't know how you could argue different.

I didn't argue differently --- go back and read.

I'll bet you, that the looks/attempts/catch ratio between Crabtree and Davis will be more in Crabtree's favor then the ratio between Nicks and S.Smith... What ever you want to put on it. Name your price...

If you figure out a way to phrase this so that it makes sense, I'm game for a sig line bet.

The receptions ratio for Crabtree vs Davis will be better then that of Nicks vs. Smith.. (barring major injury)I'm saying, that if Crabtree catches 5o balls, and Davis catches 5o balls, Crabtree will have caught 50% of the passes between the 2.

And if Nicks catches 4o balls, and Smith catches 6o, Nicks will have only caught 40%.

Better percentage, or ratio, goes to Crabtree.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I like them both but here's why Nicks gets my vote:

Crabtree 2009

Yards on the Catch: 9.0

Yards after the Catch: 4.0

YPC: 13.0

Nicks 2009

Yards on the Catch: 7.8

Yards after the Catch: 9.0

YPC: 16.8

Can you explain that a little more? You like Nicks because he gets more yards after the catch? I just want to make sure that is it. Is there a reason why that is the deciding factor? Honest question.

Both are solid possession WRs but I like Nicks more because every ball he catches has the potential to go the distance. He has the skills of a young TO.

I don't disagree about Nicks.Crabtree is a playmaker

Look at the "Long"

Not even close... If you're going to make an arrangement for Nicks and match highlight videos, you'll have to do better than that. Nicks had a few nice catches, but ultimately looked slow and playing against poor coverage. He's always had good hands, but the so does Crabtree.

And with the tipped ball play? What are you giving Nicks credit for there?

 

[Alex P Keaton]

The receptions ratio for Crabtree vs Davis will be better then that of Nicks vs. Smith.. (barring major injury)I'm saying, that if Crabtree catches 5o balls, and Davis catches 5o balls, Crabtree will have caught 50% of the passes between the 2.And if Nicks catches 4o balls, and Smith catches 6o, Nicks will have only caught 40%. Better percentage, or ratio, goes to Crabtree.

Given that Smith is a possession receiver, I wouldn't be surprised by that either.Here is what I expect:- Crabtree has more catches than Nicks- Nicks has more yards (because he will have a higher YPC)- Nicks has more TDs

 

[rizzler]

Here is what I expect:- Crabtree has more catches than Nicks- Nicks has more yards (because he will have a higher YPC)- Nicks has more TDs

agreedisagreetie or too close to call. (but if I was betting Id still say crabs)

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The receptions ratio for Crabtree vs Davis will be better then that of Nicks vs. Smith.. (barring major injury)I'm saying, that if Crabtree catches 5o balls, and Davis catches 5o balls, Crabtree will have caught 50% of the passes between the 2.And if Nicks catches 4o balls, and Smith catches 6o, Nicks will have only caught 40%. Better percentage, or ratio, goes to Crabtree.

Given that Smith is a possession receiver, I wouldn't be surprised by that either.Here is what I expect:- Crabtree has more catches than Nicks- Nicks has more yards (because he will have a higher YPC)- Nicks has more TDs

Since the OP question was:"If their ADPs creep into the same area as I expect, which player are you targeting for 2010?"We're talking about fantasy points. So lets make the bet on Fantasy points...6pt per TD, .1pt per yard rush/rec, 1pt per recWe on?Barring major injuries of course...

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Since the OP question was:"If their ADPs creep into the same area as I expect, which player are you targeting for 2010?"We're talking about fantasy points. So lets make the bet on Fantasy points...6pt per TD, .1pt per yard rush/rec, 1pt per recWe on?Barring major injuries of course...

We're on. Injuries could go either way, so let's keep it simple -- the bet stands regardless of injuries.6 pt / TD. .1 pt per yard rush/rec. No PPR.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Since the OP question was:"If their ADPs creep into the same area as I expect, which player are you targeting for 2010?"We're talking about fantasy points. So lets make the bet on Fantasy points...6pt per TD, .1pt per yard rush/rec, 1pt per recWe on?Barring major injuries of course...

We're on. Injuries could go either way, so let's keep it simple -- the bet stands regardless of injuries.6 pt / TD. .1 pt per yard rush/rec. No PPR.

Who plays "NO PPR"? You can't say "We're on" when I say "1pt per rec" and then say "NO PPR"This:"6pt per TD, .1pt per yard rush/rec, 1pt per rec"is pretty much the standard. Don't try to tailor it to your needs....

 

[gethugefast1]

I’m fascinated by everything Hakeem Nicks. So he's got my vote here and drops to me me lower than his ADP.

First story I remember hearing when the G-Men(Homer) was of how Hakeem Nicks wears 4XL gloves, but I wanted to put into perspective how big his hands are (which is one of the reasons for his catching ability).

Hakeem Nicks’ hands measure at 10.5 inches.

Here are some other hand measurements from Hick's draft class:

Jason Smith OT 6′5" Hands measure at 9.75 inches.

Andre Smith OT 6′4” hands measure at 9.75 inches

Michael Oher 6′5" 10 and 3/8 inches hand measurements

Phil Loadholt 6′8” hand span of 10 inches

Only Eugene Monroe of the OT selected in the first two rounds of that draft has bigger hands than Hakeem Nicks. Monroe’s hands are 11 1/8 inches.

Hakeem Nick’s hands are HUGE. He has hands bigger than the average 6′5" guy. That has to be a reason why he catches everything so well.

Some WR comparisons:

Kenny Britt 9 inches

Michael Crabtree 9.25 inches

Darrius Heywar Bey 9 inches

Jeremey Maclin 9.25 inches

Brandon Tate 9.25 inches

Just my but I see WR Stud in his future.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Yeah really, he comparing Crabtree's clutch play to beat Texas, one of the greatest plays of all time to a tip ball that I've seen DBS do 100 times and Darren Sharper has done it many times. So as far as good luck der nobody can do it!!! well, hundreds have and i've seen better plays at high school games. LOL!!!

 

[Multiple Scores]

I’m fascinated by everything Hakeem Nicks. So he's got my vote here and drops to me me lower than his ADP. First story I remember hearing when the G-Men(Homer) was of how Hakeem Nicks wears 4XL gloves, but I wanted to put into perspective how big his hands are (which is one of the reasons for his catching ability).Hakeem Nicks’ hands measure at 10.5 inches.Here are some other hand measurements from Hick's draft class:Jason Smith OT 6′5" Hands measure at 9.75 inches.Andre Smith OT 6′4” hands measure at 9.75 inchesMichael Oher 6′5" 10 and 3/8 inches hand measurementsPhil Loadholt 6′8” hand span of 10 inchesOnly Eugene Monroe of the OT selected in the first two rounds of that draft has bigger hands than Hakeem Nicks. Monroe’s hands are 11 1/8 inches.Hakeem Nick’s hands are HUGE. He has hands bigger than the average 6′5" guy. That has to be a reason why he catches everything so well.Some WR comparisons:Kenny Britt 9 inchesMichael Crabtree 9.25 inchesDarrius Heywar Bey 9 inchesJeremey Maclin 9.25 inchesBrandon Tate 9.25 inchesJust my but I see WR Stud in his future.

No dismissing the size of Nicks hands. Crabtree has better football hands though, he catches better and that is what matters, his arm length is also freakish, giving him a full inch on Nicks, that you can just add to his height, combine that with he jumps better and it's like Crabtree is 6'4" and Nicks is 6'1". The decision on who is the better player is a shock that it's a decision and not just a foregone conclusion. NYG fans pimping Nicks, doesn't get better than that!

 

[Multiple Scores]

I think this exercise is pretty foolish, if we want to be real here we should be comparing Roddy White vs. Michael Crabtree and Hakeem Nicks to Dez Bryant or Chad Shillenz. Let's keep it real guys, comparing Nicks and Crabtree is just a chance for the haters to hate.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

 

[finito]

How would Percy harvin figure in to the mix?

My personal order would be:CrabtreeNicksHarvinBut Harvin is certainly in the discussion IMO, he looked excellent last season, but Rice looks like he's the #1 there so Percy's ceiling may be a bit limited.

 

[Avery]

I think this exercise is pretty foolish, if we want to be real here we should be comparing Roddy White vs. Michael Crabtree and Hakeem Nicks to Dez Bryant or Chad Shillenz. Let's keep it real guys, comparing Nicks and Crabtree is just a chance for the haters to hate.

Just don't get that at all.First of all just because people disagree with you, doesn't necessarily make them "haters".Second of all why does it make more sense to you to compare to an Crabtree to an established veteran like White rather than players from the same draft class? Just because you think that Crabtree is better?What is true is that each player has a lot going for them and there is not enough information as of yet, as to who will be the better player fantasy and NFL based on each of their skill set, supporting casts, and respective team offensive philosophies.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Who plays "NO PPR"? You can't say "We're on" when I say "1pt per rec" and then say "NO PPR"This:"6pt per TD, .1pt per yard rush/rec, 1pt per rec"is pretty much the standard. Don't try to tailor it to your needs....

First - plenty of people don't play PPR. So stop acting like it's a crime.Second - I don't want to turn this into a debate over the merits of PPR. There are plenty of threads floating around out there already.Third - Alright, clearly PPR helps your cause since Crabtree is more of a possession WR than Nicks, but fine. Whatever. We're on. PPR. Fourth - please, lose the attitude. You come across like a petulant teenager.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Who plays "NO PPR"? You can't say "We're on" when I say "1pt per rec" and then say "NO PPR"This:"6pt per TD, .1pt per yard rush/rec, 1pt per rec"is pretty much the standard. Don't try to tailor it to your needs....

First - plenty of people don't play PPR. So stop acting like it's a crime.Second - I don't want to turn this into a debate over the merits of PPR. There are plenty of threads floating around out there already.Third - Alright, clearly PPR helps your cause since Crabtree is more of a possession WR than Nicks, but fine. Whatever. We're on. PPR. Fourth - please, lose the attitude. You come across like a petulant teenager.

Petulant Teenager? lolMy friend, It's a rather simple idea, someone offers a bet including the rules he's agreeing to, you don't accept and then change the rules...You will ware my sig nicely.... I can't wait...

 

[Balco]

I’m fascinated by everything Hakeem Nicks. So he's got my vote here and drops to me me lower than his ADP. First story I remember hearing when the G-Men(Homer) was of how Hakeem Nicks wears 4XL gloves, but I wanted to put into perspective how big his hands are (which is one of the reasons for his catching ability).Hakeem Nicks’ hands measure at 10.5 inches.Here are some other hand measurements from Hick's draft class:Jason Smith OT 6′5" Hands measure at 9.75 inches.Andre Smith OT 6′4” hands measure at 9.75 inchesMichael Oher 6′5" 10 and 3/8 inches hand measurementsPhil Loadholt 6′8” hand span of 10 inchesOnly Eugene Monroe of the OT selected in the first two rounds of that draft has bigger hands than Hakeem Nicks. Monroe’s hands are 11 1/8 inches.Hakeem Nick’s hands are HUGE. He has hands bigger than the average 6′5" guy. That has to be a reason why he catches everything so well.Some WR comparisons:Kenny Britt 9 inchesMichael Crabtree 9.25 inchesDarrius Heywar Bey 9 inchesJeremey Maclin 9.25 inchesBrandon Tate 9.25 inchesJust my but I see WR Stud in his future.

Do you think hand size = has good football hands? Meaning, because Nicks has big hands, he catches everything? Not sure what hand size had to do with receiver performance.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I’m fascinated by everything Hakeem Nicks. So he's got my vote here and drops to me me lower than his ADP. First story I remember hearing when the G-Men(Homer) was of how Hakeem Nicks wears 4XL gloves, but I wanted to put into perspective how big his hands are (which is one of the reasons for his catching ability).Hakeem Nicks’ hands measure at 10.5 inches.Here are some other hand measurements from Hick's draft class:Jason Smith OT 6′5" Hands measure at 9.75 inches.Andre Smith OT 6′4” hands measure at 9.75 inchesMichael Oher 6′5" 10 and 3/8 inches hand measurementsPhil Loadholt 6′8” hand span of 10 inchesOnly Eugene Monroe of the OT selected in the first two rounds of that draft has bigger hands than Hakeem Nicks. Monroe’s hands are 11 1/8 inches.Hakeem Nick’s hands are HUGE. He has hands bigger than the average 6′5" guy. That has to be a reason why he catches everything so well.Some WR comparisons:Kenny Britt 9 inchesMichael Crabtree 9.25 inchesDarrius Heywar Bey 9 inchesJeremey Maclin 9.25 inchesBrandon Tate 9.25 inchesJust my but I see WR Stud in his future.

Do you think hand size = has good football hands? Meaning, because Nicks has big hands, he catches everything? Not sure what hand size had to do with receiver performance.

Hand size is most certainly not the single determining factor, but it's helpfull for a good reciever to have large hands..Now, the fact that he has large hands, has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. Nicks having larger hands then Crabtree has very Very little to do with which is the better player.They both have great hands and a soft touch for the ball. I think I'd rank them rather equally there. But Crabtree has a larger catch radius and is better at adjusting to catch poorly thrown balls...

 

[dwyadog]

I’m fascinated by everything Hakeem Nicks. So he's got my vote here and drops to me me lower than his ADP. First story I remember hearing when the G-Men(Homer) was of how Hakeem Nicks wears 4XL gloves, but I wanted to put into perspective how big his hands are (which is one of the reasons for his catching ability).Hakeem Nicks’ hands measure at 10.5 inches.Here are some other hand measurements from Hick's draft class:Jason Smith OT 6′5" Hands measure at 9.75 inches.Andre Smith OT 6′4” hands measure at 9.75 inchesMichael Oher 6′5" 10 and 3/8 inches hand measurementsPhil Loadholt 6′8” hand span of 10 inchesOnly Eugene Monroe of the OT selected in the first two rounds of that draft has bigger hands than Hakeem Nicks. Monroe’s hands are 11 1/8 inches.Hakeem Nick’s hands are HUGE. He has hands bigger than the average 6′5" guy. That has to be a reason why he catches everything so well.Some WR comparisons:Kenny Britt 9 inchesMichael Crabtree 9.25 inchesDarrius Heywar Bey 9 inchesJeremey Maclin 9.25 inchesBrandon Tate 9.25 inchesJust my but I see WR Stud in his future.

Do you think hand size = has good football hands? Meaning, because Nicks has big hands, he catches everything? Not sure what hand size had to do with receiver performance.

Hand size is most certainly not the single determining factor, but it's helpfull for a good reciever to have large hands..Now, the fact that he has large hands, has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. Nicks having larger hands then Crabtree has very Very little to do with which is the better player.They both have great hands and a soft touch for the ball. I think I'd rank them rather equally there. But Crabtree has a larger catch radius and is better at adjusting to catch poorly thrown balls...

Which he has to be due to who his throwing him the ball. Give me Nicks

 

[shadyridr]

 

[ponchsox]

Nicks looks a lot better right now

 

[shadyridr]

I think this exercise is pretty foolish, if we want to be real here we should be comparing Roddy White vs. Michael Crabtree and Hakeem Nicks to Dez Bryant or Chad Shillenz. Let's keep it real guys, comparing Nicks and Crabtree is just a chance for the haters to hate.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Was just looking for this thread, someone bumped it as I was scrolling through the pages.. Certainly doesn't look good after week one for Crabtree, huge deficit..

Not sure I still back Crabtree in this debate. Nicks and Manning look alot better then I expected. Obviously still going to honor my bet with Alex though..

 

[ponchsox]

Crabtree becomes a weekly matchup start for me vs a must start

 

[One]

Was just looking for this thread, someone bumped it as I was scrolling through the pages.. Certainly doesn't look good after week one for Crabtree, huge deficit.. Not sure I still back Crabtree in this debate. Nicks and Manning look alot better then I expected. Obviously still going to honor my bet with Alex though..

Things can change, but honorable post.

 

[fightingillini]

While I like Nicks' talent....I like Crabtree more. Nicks has to share the ball with S Smith, Manningham, Boss, as well as the NYG running game. I like what they are doing in SF. While I don't belive Alex Smith is an elite talent, he did vastly improve at the end of last year. Vernon Davis is a stud, Frank Gore is a stud, so defenses can't just focus on Crabtree. He has more potential to put up top 10 stats, and that's what your looking for in WRs ranked around 20-25. Harder for Nicks to do that if S Smith is taking 90+ catches away from the NYG passing game.

Oops.

 

[shadyridr]

Crabtree just looks so boring to me. Not tall, not muscular, not fast, runs horrible routes, mopes. What is the positive aspect about him? Maybe hands but thats about it.

 

[EBF]

Crabtree just looks so boring to me. Not tall, not muscular, not fast, runs horrible routes, mopes. What is the positive aspect about him? Maybe hands but thats about it.

Tall. Muscular. Fast. Strong hands. What his game lacks is explosiveness. He's not a big play threat, but when the effort is there, he's a very good possession WR.

 

[basher]

Crabtree just looks so boring to me. Not tall, not muscular, not fast, runs horrible routes, mopes. What is the positive aspect about him? Maybe hands but thats about it.

Tall. Muscular. Fast. Strong hands. What his game lacks is explosiveness. He's not a big play threat, but when the effort is there, he's a very good possession WR.

what his game lacks is heart.

 

[Grahamburn]

Sigmund Bloom = :winning: