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Creation vs. Evolution (1 Viewer)

Agree totally. After watching that clip, I clicked on a few others. One of his more salient points, to me at least, he expressed on the Bill Maher show about Congress. It's kind of off-topic, but I guess it relates a little bit. He said that Congress is made up of about about 50% lawyers. In other words, 50% of Congress consists of people who argue for a living without coming to an agreement. How can anyone possibly expect Congress to do a good job if all they do is argue talking points. And wouldn't it be better if Congress were representative of the overall population? Wouldn't it be better if Congress were adequately represented by scientists, teachers, small business owners, blue collar types, etc.Also... he mentioned that the recent bank bailout money is greater than the total combined 50-year budget of the space program. Found that fascinating.

 
Charles Darwin gets 4,000 write-in votes in Georgia

ATLANTA (Reuters) - A Georgia congressman who attacked the theory of evolution found himself with an unlikely opponent in Tuesday's U.S. election, when 4,000 voters in one county cast write-in ballots for the 19th century father of evolution, British naturalist Charles Darwin.

In a September 27 speech, Paul Broun, a physician and member of the U.S. House of Representatives Science, Space and Technology Committee, called evolution and the Big Bang Theory, "lies straight from the pit of hell."

Since Broun, a Republican, had no opposition in the general election, a University of Georgia plant biology professor, Jim Leebens-Mack, and others started a write-in campaign for Darwin, the father of the theory of evolution.

"We don't feel our interests are being best served by an anti-science fundamentalist representing us on the Science, Space and Technology Committee," Leebens-Mack told Reuters on Friday.

The write-in votes in Athens-Clarke County will not count officially since Darwin was never certified as a write-in candidate.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE8A813W20121109?irpc=932
 
With regards to the Science, Space and Tech committee (or any others), do they have to be elected officials? If so, that is pretty terrible. If not, it is even worse that idiots like this guy are appointed to it.

Can't Obama just say, 'Hey Bill Nye, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, you guys are the committee now. Hire whom ever you need'.

 
5 strategies to collapse Darwinism

1. Strength of resources

Borrowing from Carl von Clausewitz and it is important to have as much firepower as possible. We wrote about this in our articles on the importance of fundraising entitled Winning the creation vs. evolution war with the help of strong fundraising and We are off to the races as far as developing our creation vs. evolution fundraising abilities

In short, we want to we want to "flood the zone" on the public forum as much as possible.
 
Over Thanksgiving I found out my dad believes dragons once existed. He claims the fact "They're mentioned in every culture." can't just be a coincidence and must therefore mean they roamed the earth. He also believes in the literal interpretation of Noah's Ark.

:mellow:

 
Couldn't god have just recreated all the animal instead of this whole ark deal?
yeah, but that wouldn't have taught us a lesson about hard work, or the value of hetero animals, or whatever.he can't always just do everything for us.if you're going to take that angle, why not just not flood us out with 40 days of rain in the first place?seems kind of unfair for all the fish to sin all they want with no repercussions.
 
Over Thanksgiving I found out my dad believes dragons once existed. He claims the fact "They're mentioned in every culture." can't just be a coincidence and must therefore mean they roamed the earth. He also believes in the literal interpretation of Noah's Ark. :mellow:
Maybe a dragon can help him boost that weed van.
 
Religious-based nonsense even here in California.

San Juan Capistrano city planning commissioners ban dinosaur statue on private property.

San Juan Capistrano panel wants dinosaur statue removed

Planning commissioners say the replica is out of character in the historic heart of town. The owner plans to appeal the decision.

The dinosaur replica at Zoomars Petting Zoo in San Juan Capistrano stands 13 feet tall. (Katie Falkenberg /

By Anh Do, Los Angeles Times

January 9, 2013, 7:35 p.m.

The San Juan Capistrano dinosaur is one step closer to extinction after city planning commissioners voted to evict the 40-foot long Apatosaurus statue from a petting zoo in the heart of the city's oldest neighborhood.

Commissioners said the dinosaur, which peeks onto historic Los Rios Street from the tiny zoo, does not reflect the history of San Juan, which would have been underwater when such animals roamed the Earth.

Carolyn Franks, owner of Zoomars Petting Zoo, said she plans to appeal the commission's 4-2 vote.

Franks bought the 13-foot-high statue for $12,000 in June, installing it without city permission. Since then, she and a donor have spent more than $30,000 on improvements to the statue and its setting, including leveling the ground where it was placed.

"We're a historical animal park," she said, noting that her zoo includes alpacas, goats, rabbits and a few zedonks — a cross between a zebra and a donkey. "The dinosaur is fiberglass. It's been so exciting for the kids — and what a great way to get kids started in history at the start of history."

Opponents cite the zoo's location on historic Los Rios Street, a narrow passageway dotted with buildings more than 200 years old. The road is one of the oldest in California.

Franks said she offered to screen off the statue — which is known by its fans as Juan the Capistrano Dinosaur — from pedestrians' view if the commission lets the dinosaur stay.

"She came in with good ideas, including screening with trees, and I thought we could find a way to preserve the statue," said Jeff Parkhurst, a city planning commissioner who said he took both of his daughters to the zoo when they were younger.



"I'm all for learning for kids, but our focus is on the history of San Juan — not the history of dinosaurs," said Robert Williams, who chairs the planning commission and believes the statue is out of place.

Franks has 15 days to appeal the vote. If the commission isn't swayed, she can appeal its decision to the City Council.

She said that when she returns to City Hall, she's considering bringing along some of the children, parents and teachers who support the dinosaur's continued residency on Los Rios.

"They wanted to wear dinosaur T-shirts because they love the statue," she said.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Religious-based nonsense even here in California.

San Juan Capistrano city planning commissioners ban dinosaur statue on private property.

San Juan Capistrano panel wants dinosaur statue removed

Planning commissioners say the replica is out of character in the historic heart of town. The owner plans to appeal the decision.

The dinosaur replica at Zoomars Petting Zoo in San Juan Capistrano stands 13 feet tall. (Katie Falkenberg /

By Anh Do, Los Angeles Times

January 9, 2013, 7:35 p.m.

The San Juan Capistrano dinosaur is one step closer to extinction after city planning commissioners voted to evict the 40-foot long Apatosaurus statue from a petting zoo in the heart of the city's oldest neighborhood.

Commissioners said the dinosaur, which peeks onto historic Los Rios Street from the tiny zoo, does not reflect the history of San Juan, which would have been underwater when such animals roamed the Earth.

Carolyn Franks, owner of Zoomars Petting Zoo, said she plans to appeal the commission's 4-2 vote.

Franks bought the 13-foot-high statue for $12,000 in June, installing it without city permission. Since then, she and a donor have spent more than $30,000 on improvements to the statue and its setting, including leveling the ground where it was placed.

"We're a historical animal park," she said, noting that her zoo includes alpacas, goats, rabbits and a few zedonks — a cross between a zebra and a donkey. "The dinosaur is fiberglass. It's been so exciting for the kids — and what a great way to get kids started in history at the start of history."

Opponents cite the zoo's location on historic Los Rios Street, a narrow passageway dotted with buildings more than 200 years old. The road is one of the oldest in California.

Franks said she offered to screen off the statue — which is known by its fans as Juan the Capistrano Dinosaur — from pedestrians' view if the commission lets the dinosaur stay.

"She came in with good ideas, including screening with trees, and I thought we could find a way to preserve the statue," said Jeff Parkhurst, a city planning commissioner who said he took both of his daughters to the zoo when they were younger.



"I'm all for learning for kids, but our focus is on the history of San Juan — not the history of dinosaurs," said Robert Williams, who chairs the planning commission and believes the statue is out of place.

Franks has 15 days to appeal the vote. If the commission isn't swayed, she can appeal its decision to the City Council.

She said that when she returns to City Hall, she's considering bringing along some of the children, parents and teachers who support the dinosaur's continued residency on Los Rios.

"They wanted to wear dinosaur T-shirts because they love the statue," she said.
Where's the religion based part?
 
Religious-based nonsense even here in California.

San Juan Capistrano city planning commissioners ban dinosaur statue on private property.

San Juan Capistrano panel wants dinosaur statue removed

Planning commissioners say the replica is out of character in the historic heart of town. The owner plans to appeal the decision.

The dinosaur replica at Zoomars Petting Zoo in San Juan Capistrano stands 13 feet tall. (Katie Falkenberg /

By Anh Do, Los Angeles Times

January 9, 2013, 7:35 p.m.

The San Juan Capistrano dinosaur is one step closer to extinction after city planning commissioners voted to evict the 40-foot long Apatosaurus statue from a petting zoo in the heart of the city's oldest neighborhood.

Commissioners said the dinosaur, which peeks onto historic Los Rios Street from the tiny zoo, does not reflect the history of San Juan, which would have been underwater when such animals roamed the Earth.

Carolyn Franks, owner of Zoomars Petting Zoo, said she plans to appeal the commission's 4-2 vote.

Franks bought the 13-foot-high statue for $12,000 in June, installing it without city permission. Since then, she and a donor have spent more than $30,000 on improvements to the statue and its setting, including leveling the ground where it was placed.

"We're a historical animal park," she said, noting that her zoo includes alpacas, goats, rabbits and a few zedonks — a cross between a zebra and a donkey. "The dinosaur is fiberglass. It's been so exciting for the kids — and what a great way to get kids started in history at the start of history."

Opponents cite the zoo's location on historic Los Rios Street, a narrow passageway dotted with buildings more than 200 years old. The road is one of the oldest in California.

Franks said she offered to screen off the statue — which is known by its fans as Juan the Capistrano Dinosaur — from pedestrians' view if the commission lets the dinosaur stay.

"She came in with good ideas, including screening with trees, and I thought we could find a way to preserve the statue," said Jeff Parkhurst, a city planning commissioner who said he took both of his daughters to the zoo when they were younger.



"I'm all for learning for kids, but our focus is on the history of San Juan — not the history of dinosaurs," said Robert Williams, who chairs the planning commission and believes the statue is out of place.

Franks has 15 days to appeal the vote. If the commission isn't swayed, she can appeal its decision to the City Council.

She said that when she returns to City Hall, she's considering bringing along some of the children, parents and teachers who support the dinosaur's continued residency on Los Rios.

"They wanted to wear dinosaur T-shirts because they love the statue," she said.
Where's the religion based part?
The under water part maybe referring to the flood. :unsure: I saw it as just another someone doesn't like an eyesore in a historic neighborhood and happened to be on the zoning board.
 
'Novice2 said:
'mad sweeney said:
'cstu said:
Religious-based nonsense even here in California.

San Juan Capistrano city planning commissioners ban dinosaur statue on private property.

San Juan Capistrano panel wants dinosaur statue removed

Planning commissioners say the replica is out of character in the historic heart of town. The owner plans to appeal the decision.

The dinosaur replica at Zoomars Petting Zoo in San Juan Capistrano stands 13 feet tall. (Katie Falkenberg /

By Anh Do, Los Angeles Times

January 9, 2013, 7:35 p.m.

The San Juan Capistrano dinosaur is one step closer to extinction after city planning commissioners voted to evict the 40-foot long Apatosaurus statue from a petting zoo in the heart of the city's oldest neighborhood.

Commissioners said the dinosaur, which peeks onto historic Los Rios Street from the tiny zoo, does not reflect the history of San Juan, which would have been underwater when such animals roamed the Earth.

Carolyn Franks, owner of Zoomars Petting Zoo, said she plans to appeal the commission's 4-2 vote.

Franks bought the 13-foot-high statue for $12,000 in June, installing it without city permission. Since then, she and a donor have spent more than $30,000 on improvements to the statue and its setting, including leveling the ground where it was placed.

"We're a historical animal park," she said, noting that her zoo includes alpacas, goats, rabbits and a few zedonks — a cross between a zebra and a donkey. "The dinosaur is fiberglass. It's been so exciting for the kids — and what a great way to get kids started in history at the start of history."

Opponents cite the zoo's location on historic Los Rios Street, a narrow passageway dotted with buildings more than 200 years old. The road is one of the oldest in California.

Franks said she offered to screen off the statue — which is known by its fans as Juan the Capistrano Dinosaur — from pedestrians' view if the commission lets the dinosaur stay.

"She came in with good ideas, including screening with trees, and I thought we could find a way to preserve the statue," said Jeff Parkhurst, a city planning commissioner who said he took both of his daughters to the zoo when they were younger.



"I'm all for learning for kids, but our focus is on the history of San Juan — not the history of dinosaurs," said Robert Williams, who chairs the planning commission and believes the statue is out of place.

Franks has 15 days to appeal the vote. If the commission isn't swayed, she can appeal its decision to the City Council.

She said that when she returns to City Hall, she's considering bringing along some of the children, parents and teachers who support the dinosaur's continued residency on Los Rios.

"They wanted to wear dinosaur T-shirts because they love the statue," she said.
Where's the religion based part?
The under water part maybe referring to the flood. :unsure: I saw it as just another someone doesn't like an eyesore in a historic neighborhood and happened to be on the zoning board.
Maybe it was under water along time ago. You do know the earth has changed drastically over the last billion years.
 
'Novice2 said:
'mad sweeney said:
'cstu said:
Religious-based nonsense even here in California.

San Juan Capistrano city planning commissioners ban dinosaur statue on private property.

San Juan Capistrano panel wants dinosaur statue removed

Planning commissioners say the replica is out of character in the historic heart of town. The owner plans to appeal the decision.

The dinosaur replica at Zoomars Petting Zoo in San Juan Capistrano stands 13 feet tall. (Katie Falkenberg /

By Anh Do, Los Angeles Times

January 9, 2013, 7:35 p.m.

The San Juan Capistrano dinosaur is one step closer to extinction after city planning commissioners voted to evict the 40-foot long Apatosaurus statue from a petting zoo in the heart of the city's oldest neighborhood.

Commissioners said the dinosaur, which peeks onto historic Los Rios Street from the tiny zoo, does not reflect the history of San Juan, which would have been underwater when such animals roamed the Earth.

Carolyn Franks, owner of Zoomars Petting Zoo, said she plans to appeal the commission's 4-2 vote.

Franks bought the 13-foot-high statue for $12,000 in June, installing it without city permission. Since then, she and a donor have spent more than $30,000 on improvements to the statue and its setting, including leveling the ground where it was placed.

"We're a historical animal park," she said, noting that her zoo includes alpacas, goats, rabbits and a few zedonks — a cross between a zebra and a donkey. "The dinosaur is fiberglass. It's been so exciting for the kids — and what a great way to get kids started in history at the start of history."

Opponents cite the zoo's location on historic Los Rios Street, a narrow passageway dotted with buildings more than 200 years old. The road is one of the oldest in California.

Franks said she offered to screen off the statue — which is known by its fans as Juan the Capistrano Dinosaur — from pedestrians' view if the commission lets the dinosaur stay.

"She came in with good ideas, including screening with trees, and I thought we could find a way to preserve the statue," said Jeff Parkhurst, a city planning commissioner who said he took both of his daughters to the zoo when they were younger.



"I'm all for learning for kids, but our focus is on the history of San Juan — not the history of dinosaurs," said Robert Williams, who chairs the planning commission and believes the statue is out of place.

Franks has 15 days to appeal the vote. If the commission isn't swayed, she can appeal its decision to the City Council.

She said that when she returns to City Hall, she's considering bringing along some of the children, parents and teachers who support the dinosaur's continued residency on Los Rios.

"They wanted to wear dinosaur T-shirts because they love the statue," she said.
Where's the religion based part?
The under water part maybe referring to the flood. :unsure: I saw it as just another someone doesn't like an eyesore in a historic neighborhood and happened to be on the zoning board.
Maybe it was under water along time ago. You do know the earth has changed drastically over the last billion years.
All this talk of religion and whether water ever covered the region is just so much chatter. Here is the real problem:
Franks bought the 13-foot-high statue for $12,000 in June, installing it without city permission.
So she installed this giant thing without checking with city zoning first. No surprise she has run afoul of city hall really.
 
'Novice2 said:
'mad sweeney said:
'cstu said:
Religious-based nonsense even here in California.

San Juan Capistrano city planning commissioners ban dinosaur statue on private property.

San Juan Capistrano panel wants dinosaur statue removed

Planning commissioners say the replica is out of character in the historic heart of town. The owner plans to appeal the decision.

The dinosaur replica at Zoomars Petting Zoo in San Juan Capistrano stands 13 feet tall. (Katie Falkenberg /

By Anh Do, Los Angeles Times

January 9, 2013, 7:35 p.m.

The San Juan Capistrano dinosaur is one step closer to extinction after city planning commissioners voted to evict the 40-foot long Apatosaurus statue from a petting zoo in the heart of the city's oldest neighborhood.

Commissioners said the dinosaur, which peeks onto historic Los Rios Street from the tiny zoo, does not reflect the history of San Juan, which would have been underwater when such animals roamed the Earth.

Carolyn Franks, owner of Zoomars Petting Zoo, said she plans to appeal the commission's 4-2 vote.

Franks bought the 13-foot-high statue for $12,000 in June, installing it without city permission. Since then, she and a donor have spent more than $30,000 on improvements to the statue and its setting, including leveling the ground where it was placed.

"We're a historical animal park," she said, noting that her zoo includes alpacas, goats, rabbits and a few zedonks — a cross between a zebra and a donkey. "The dinosaur is fiberglass. It's been so exciting for the kids — and what a great way to get kids started in history at the start of history."

Opponents cite the zoo's location on historic Los Rios Street, a narrow passageway dotted with buildings more than 200 years old. The road is one of the oldest in California.

Franks said she offered to screen off the statue — which is known by its fans as Juan the Capistrano Dinosaur — from pedestrians' view if the commission lets the dinosaur stay.

"She came in with good ideas, including screening with trees, and I thought we could find a way to preserve the statue," said Jeff Parkhurst, a city planning commissioner who said he took both of his daughters to the zoo when they were younger.



"I'm all for learning for kids, but our focus is on the history of San Juan — not the history of dinosaurs," said Robert Williams, who chairs the planning commission and believes the statue is out of place.

Franks has 15 days to appeal the vote. If the commission isn't swayed, she can appeal its decision to the City Council.

She said that when she returns to City Hall, she's considering bringing along some of the children, parents and teachers who support the dinosaur's continued residency on Los Rios.

"They wanted to wear dinosaur T-shirts because they love the statue," she said.
Where's the religion based part?
The under water part maybe referring to the flood. :unsure: I saw it as just another someone doesn't like an eyesore in a historic neighborhood and happened to be on the zoning board.
Maybe it was under water along time ago. You do know the earth has changed drastically over the last billion years.
All this talk of religion and whether water ever covered the region is just so much chatter. Here is the real problem:
Franks bought the 13-foot-high statue for $12,000 in June, installing it without city permission.
So she installed this giant thing without checking with city zoning first. No surprise she has run afoul of city hall really.
She needed to make some donations to some campaigns beforehand.
 
'Novice2 said:
'mad sweeney said:
'cstu said:
Religious-based nonsense even here in California.

San Juan Capistrano city planning commissioners ban dinosaur statue on private property.

San Juan Capistrano panel wants dinosaur statue removed

Planning commissioners say the replica is out of character in the historic heart of town. The owner plans to appeal the decision.

The dinosaur replica at Zoomars Petting Zoo in San Juan Capistrano stands 13 feet tall. (Katie Falkenberg /

By Anh Do, Los Angeles Times

January 9, 2013, 7:35 p.m.

The San Juan Capistrano dinosaur is one step closer to extinction after city planning commissioners voted to evict the 40-foot long Apatosaurus statue from a petting zoo in the heart of the city's oldest neighborhood.

Commissioners said the dinosaur, which peeks onto historic Los Rios Street from the tiny zoo, does not reflect the history of San Juan, which would have been underwater when such animals roamed the Earth.

Carolyn Franks, owner of Zoomars Petting Zoo, said she plans to appeal the commission's 4-2 vote.

Franks bought the 13-foot-high statue for $12,000 in June, installing it without city permission. Since then, she and a donor have spent more than $30,000 on improvements to the statue and its setting, including leveling the ground where it was placed.

"We're a historical animal park," she said, noting that her zoo includes alpacas, goats, rabbits and a few zedonks — a cross between a zebra and a donkey. "The dinosaur is fiberglass. It's been so exciting for the kids — and what a great way to get kids started in history at the start of history."

Opponents cite the zoo's location on historic Los Rios Street, a narrow passageway dotted with buildings more than 200 years old. The road is one of the oldest in California.

Franks said she offered to screen off the statue — which is known by its fans as Juan the Capistrano Dinosaur — from pedestrians' view if the commission lets the dinosaur stay.

"She came in with good ideas, including screening with trees, and I thought we could find a way to preserve the statue," said Jeff Parkhurst, a city planning commissioner who said he took both of his daughters to the zoo when they were younger.



"I'm all for learning for kids, but our focus is on the history of San Juan — not the history of dinosaurs," said Robert Williams, who chairs the planning commission and believes the statue is out of place.

Franks has 15 days to appeal the vote. If the commission isn't swayed, she can appeal its decision to the City Council.

She said that when she returns to City Hall, she's considering bringing along some of the children, parents and teachers who support the dinosaur's continued residency on Los Rios.

"They wanted to wear dinosaur T-shirts because they love the statue," she said.
Where's the religion based part?
The under water part maybe referring to the flood. :unsure: I saw it as just another someone doesn't like an eyesore in a historic neighborhood and happened to be on the zoning board.
Maybe it was under water along time ago. You do know the earth has changed drastically over the last billion years.
All this talk of religion and whether water ever covered the region is just so much chatter. Here is the real problem:
Franks bought the 13-foot-high statue for $12,000 in June, installing it without city permission.
So she installed this giant thing without checking with city zoning first. No surprise she has run afoul of city hall really.
She needed to make some donations to some campaigns beforehand.
Certainly wouldn't have hurt her cause.
 
Support for evolution in medicine and industry

A common complaint of creationists is that evolution is of no value, has never been used for anything, and will never be of any use. According to many creationists, nothing would be lost by getting rid of evolution, and science and industry might even benefit.[87][88][89]

In fact, evolution is being put to practical use in industry and widely used on a daily basis by researchers in medicine, biochemistry, molecular biology, and genetics to both formulate hypotheses about biological systems for the purposes of experimental design, as well as to rationalise observed data and prepare applications.[25][90][91][92] As of June 2012 there are 318,926 scientific papers in PubMed that mention 'evolution'.[93] Pharmaceutical companies utilize biological evolution in their development of new products, and also use these medicines to combat evolving bacteria and viruses.[91]

Because of the perceived value of evolution in applications, there have been some expressions of support for evolution on the part of corporations. In Kansas, there has been some widespread concern in the corporate and academic communities that a move to weaken the teaching of evolution in schools will hurt the state's ability to recruit the best talent, particularly in the biotech industry.[94] Paul Hanle of the Biotechnology Institute warned that the United States risks falling behind in the biotechnology race with other nations if it does not do a better job of teaching evolution.[95] James McCarter of Divergence Incorporated states that the work of 2001 Nobel Prize winner Leland Hartwell which has substantial implications for combating cancer relied heavily on the use of evolutionary knowledge and predictions. McCarter points out that 47 of the last 50 Nobel Prizes in medicine or physiology also depended on the use of evolutionary theory.[96]
 
Cambridge Study Reveals How Life Could Have Started From Nothing

One of the most challenging questions in basic biology and the history of evolution and life stems from the unknown origin of the first cells billions of years ago. Though many pieces of the puzzle have been put together, this origin story remains somewhat murky. But a team of researchers from the University of Cambridge believe they've accidentally stumbled on an answer, and a very compelling one at that.

The discovery: Through routine quality control testing, a researcher working with Markus Ralser, who would eventually become the lead researcher for the project, stumbled upon signs of the metabolic process where, for all intents and purposes, there shouldn't have been. Until now, much of the science community has generally agreed that Ribonucleic acid, or RNA, was the first building block of life because it produces enzymes that could catalyze complex sequences of reactions such as metabolic action. However, Ralser's lab found the end products of the metabolic process without any presence of RNA. Instead, the findings indicate that complex and life-forming reactions like these could occur spontaneously given the right, but surprisingly simple, conditions.

"People have said that these pathways look so complex they couldn't form by environmental chemistry alone," Rasler told NewScientist. "This is the first experiment showing that it is possible to create metabolic networks in the absence of RNA."

Testing: Because Rasler's team basically stumbled upon their initial findings, they repeated the process several times and were pleasantly surprised with repeat successful outcomes. So, taking things to the next level, Rasler began working with Cambridge's Earth sciences department to determine if these processes could have occurred in the Archean Ocean, the oxygen-free world, predating photosynthesis, which covered the planet almost 4 billion years ago.

"In the beginning we had hoped to find one reaction or two maybe, but the results were amazing," said Ralser. "We could reconstruct two metabolic pathways almost entirely."

If these metabolic pathways were occurring in the absence of RNA in conditions rich with iron and other metals and phosphate, it seems increasingly likely that life could have literally started from nothing and spontaneously formed in ways until now believed impossible.

So what? "I think this paper has really interesting connotations for the origins of life," says Matthew Powner at University College London. "For origins of life, it is important to understand where the source molecules come from."

Rasler's team has been the first to show that life could literally come from nothing. Of course, in the scientific community, this could be a major advancement, albeit one that is still only a part of an overall picture that's still forming through years of continuing research. However, these findings could also potentially play into the creationism versus evolution debate. One of the holes often poked by creationists is the complex and hard-to-explain idea of life started from nothing at all, and for the most part scientific explanations have been somewhat lacking. However, these findings indicate that something from nothing might not be as far-fetched idea as it seems.
link
 
Star-Forming Clouds May Spit Out Life’s Building Blocks

Astronomers have discovered one of the largest and most complex organic molecules yet in a gaseous star-forming region of interstellar space. Clara Moskowitz reports
October 9, 2014 |By Clara Moskowitz
The ingredients for life on Earth may have gotten a start in space. Many biologically important molecules have been seen in space or found in meteorites. Now astronomers have discovered one of the largest and mostcomplex organic molecules yet in a gaseous star-forming region of interstellar space.

Most organic molecules seen in interstellar space, thanks to their spectra, are just straight chains of carbon atoms. The newfound molecule, isopropyl cyanide, on the other hand, has branching carbon chains. Such branches are needed for many molecules crucial to life, such as the amino acids that build proteins.

Researchers found the isopropyl cyanide’s chemical imprints in light from the Sagittarius B2 cloud about 27,000 light-years away. To reach the sensitivity needed to spot the faraway molecule, the scientists used the connected web of 66 radio telescopes that make up the Atacama Large Millimeter/submillimeter Array, also known as ALMA, in Chile. They report their findings in the journal Science. [Arnaud Belloche et al: Detection of a branched alkyl molecule in the interstellar medium: iso-propyl cyanide]

The discovery supports the idea that life’s building blocks may have originated in interstellar space. The molecules could have arisen during the process of early star formation, and been transferred to our planet later. Of course, that still doesn’t explain the origin of life—or why it ultimately came up with that wacky cousin you have to see at Thanksgiving.

—Clara Moskowit
link

 
Interesting article on how speciation may occur. Link

Scientists have long known of the important roles played by the microbes on and in our bodies our microbiomes. These little guys outnumber our own cells 10 to 1, and they help regulate everything from the energy we get out of food to the health of our immune systems. Now, scientists believe that the bugs help play another important role: the evolution of new species.

Vanderbilt University biologists Seth Bordenstein and Robert Brucker were studying what distinguished similar wasp species. Specifically, they knew two closely related wasp species, Nasonia giraulti and Nasonia longicornis, could produce healthy hybrid offspring and that the two had a similar array of gut bacteria. But when either wasp tried to mate with the related Nasonia vitripennis, which has different gut microbes, those hybrid offspring died. Bordenstein and Brucker wanted to know whether these dissimilar microbiomes were the reason the N. vitripennis hybrids didnt make it.

To test their idea, they raised the hybrid offspring of N. vitripennis and each of the other wasp species in a germ-free environment, eliminating any signs of gut bacteria that might be toxic to the wasps. While microbe-free wasps likely wouldnt survive in the wild, these hybrids survived and thrived in the safety of the lab. However, when the researchers inoculated these germ-free hybrid wasps with the gut microbes from any of the parent species, they died. Bordenstein and Brucker found that the parental microbiome was causing a malfunction in the hybrids immune systems, which likely contributed to their deaths. A mismatch between the hybrids and their inherited microbiomes was enough to kill the offspring outright. Bordenstein believes that this mismatch can drive a wedge between two groups of organisms until their offspring can no longer survive, ultimately resulting in a separate, new species akin to N. vitripennis.

This could be a potentially universal phenomenon because all animals have gut microbes, Bordenstein says. These results broaden our understanding of how species form.
 
Scientists make enzyme that could help explain origins of life

The researchers are now working to put the right-handed ribozyme (and by implication its left-handed partner) through more selection rounds, so that it can mediate the full replication of RNA, with essentially no sequence-dependence. That would make it a true general-purpose RNA-replication enzyme, capable in principle of turning a primordial nucleotide soup into a vast biosphere.

"Ultimately what one wants is to turn it loose -- in the lab, of course, not in the wild -- to let it start replicating and evolving and seeing what results," Joyce said.
link

 
"Ultimately what one wants is to turn it loose -- in the lab, of course, not in the wild -- to let it start replicating and evolving and seeing what results," Joyce said.
Whatever you say, Joyce.

 
I can see life coming from non life more than matter coming from no matter.
...and the "god of the gaps" continues to shrink and shrink.
Why even add the element of "God" or religion to the debate. I am interested in seeing how something came from nothing, but that is because our minds always search for a start point and an end point. Maybe everything has just always been, but we don't think like that. Religious people play the God is outside of nature card, thus natural law does not apply to him so he can be an uncreated being who then created everything. But for scientists, is it as simple as everything has always existed with no start point?

 
I can see life coming from non life more than matter coming from no matter.
...and the "god of the gaps" continues to shrink and shrink.
Why even add the element of "God" or religion to the debate. I am interested in seeing how something came from nothing, but that is because our minds always search for a start point and an end point. Maybe everything has just always been, but we don't think like that. Religious people play the God is outside of nature card, thus natural law does not apply to him so he can be an uncreated being who then created everything. But for scientists, is it as simple as everything has always existed with no start point?
No, it's pretty freaking incredible to attempt to comprehend. Doesn't mean we should just give up and say "Meh, probably a thing in the sky did it".

 
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I can see life coming from non life more than matter coming from no matter.
...and the "god of the gaps" continues to shrink and shrink.
Why even add the element of "God" or religion to the debate. I am interested in seeing how something came from nothing, but that is because our minds always search for a start point and an end point. Maybe everything has just always been, but we don't think like that. Religious people play the God is outside of nature card, thus natural law does not apply to him so he can be an uncreated being who then created everything. But for scientists, is it as simple as everything has always existed with no start point?
No, it's pretty freaking incredible to attempt to comprehend. Doesn't mean we should just give up and say "Meh, probably a thing in the sky did it".
:goodposting: This is why Creationism/ID should never be taught as "science".

 
I can see life coming from non life more than matter coming from no matter.
...and the "god of the gaps" continues to shrink and shrink.
Why even add the element of "God" or religion to the debate. I am interested in seeing how something came from nothing, but that is because our minds always search for a start point and an end point. Maybe everything has just always been, but we don't think like that. Religious people play the God is outside of nature card, thus natural law does not apply to him so he can be an uncreated being who then created everything. But for scientists, is it as simple as everything has always existed with no start point?
No, it's pretty freaking incredible to attempt to comprehend. Doesn't mean we should just give up and say "Meh, probably a thing in the sky did it".
I am agnostic about starting points.

 
CBusAlex said:
Mr. Know-It-All said:
But for scientists, is it as simple as everything has always existed with no start point?
Really, it's as simple as "we don't know... yet"
Right, and that goes to what I was saying. The religious say something from nothing must be outside the laws of nature - hence God. But...maybe we don't understand all the laws of nature and this original start point will be explained once that knowledge is attained. It really is fascinating - but far beyond my comprehension - so i'll wait til the experts figure it out.

 
http://www.nature.com/news/university-sued-after-firing-creationist-fossil-hunter-1.16281

In May 2012, Mark Armitage made a discovery that he had dreamed of for years. While digging in Montana, he uncovered one of the largest triceratops horns ever found in the Hell Creek Formation, a legendary stack of fossil-bearing rocks that date to the last days of the dinosaurs. Armitage drove the horn back home to Los Angeles, California, where his microscopic examination revealed that it contained not only fossilized bone but also preserved layers of soft tissue. “They were brown, stretchy sheets. I was shocked to see anything that was that pliable,” he says.

In February 2013, he published his findings in Acta Histochemica, a journal of cell and tissue research (M. H. Armitage and K. L. Anderson Acta Histochem. 115, 603–608; 2013). Two weeks later, he was fired from his job at California State University, Northridge (CSUN), where he managed the biology department’s electron and confocal microscopy suite.

Now he is embroiled in a long-shot legal fight to get his job back. In July, his lawyers filed a wrongful-termination suit claiming that religious intolerance motivated the dismissal: as a young-Earth creationist, Armitage says that finding soft tissue in the fossil supports his belief that such specimens date to the time of the biblical flood, which he puts at about 4,000 years ago.

The suit alleges that faculty members hostile to Armitage had him fired because they could not stand working with a creationist who had been published in a legitimate scientific journal. He and his attorneys at the Pacific Justice Institute, a conservative legal organization based in Sacramento, California, that focuses on religious and family issues, have repeatedly made that claim in the press. But specialists in US labour law suggest that his claim of religious intolerance might have difficulty standing up if the case goes to trial.

In recent years, a schoolteacher, academic and NASA employee who were creationists have claimed that they were fired unjustly for their religious beliefs. (None were reinstated.) But what makes this case different is that Armitage managed to survive for years in a mainstream academic institution and to publish research in a respected peer-reviewed journal.

Armitage acknowledges that he did that by keeping his views on the age of the fossil out of the paper. Written with biologist Kevin Lee Anderson of Arkansas State University-Beebe, the study simply reported that the horn was found in Hell Creek (which has a well-accepted age of 65 million to 70 million years). “It was just morphology,” says Mary Schweitzer, a palaeontologist at North Carolina State University at Raleigh who reviewed the work before publication, and made the first discovery of soft tissue in dinosaur bones in 2005. “It was fine".

Creationists often appeal to soft-tissue preservation as evidence that dinosaur fossils are thousands rather than millions of years old, says palaeontologist Jack Horner of the Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman, Montana. “Science is about building hypotheses and then attempting to falsify them,” he says. “Creation science or any kind of pseudoscience is just the opposite. It is coming up with an idea or a notion or anything else and finding evidence to support it.”

According to his lawsuit, Armitage never tried to conceal his beliefs from his employer. The filing says that when he was interviewed for his job at CSUN in November 2009, he did not hide that he holds degrees from the Christian-fundamentalist Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia, and the Institute for Creation Research, previously in San Diego, California. In an interview with Nature, Armitage said that he was also equally open about his roughly 30 technical articles on microscopy and his 2008 self-published book Jesus is like my Scanning Electron Microscope.

The lawsuit also claims that Armitage excelled in his job, receiving numerous letters of commendation. “I’m not a microscopist but as far as I could tell, Armitage was a good one,” Paul Wilson, a biologist at CSUN, told Nature.

CSUN declined to comment on Armitage’s performance or its reasons for ending his employment. However, Jeffrey Noblitt, associate vice-president of marketing and communications at CSUN, did stress in an email that Armitage’s position had been “temporary”.

Armitage freely admits that he often engaged students in conversations, giving his opinion on issues such as the age of the remarkably well-preserved cells in the triceratops horn. “To me, the obvious conclusion is they’re young. They can’t be 68 million years old,” he says.

In terms of getting his job back, those conversations might be Armitage’s undoing. US anti-discrimination laws require employers to reasonably accommodate an employee’s beliefs or religious practices, unless doing so would cause ‘undue hardship’ to the employer, says Justine Lisser, a spokesperson for the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

If Armitage made his living bending metal in a machine shop, an employer would find it difficult to show how his views caused undue hardship, she says. But in an academic setting, telling biology or palaeontology students that life began only a few thousand years ago more clearly undermines the institution’s goals. “It would be an easier showing of undue hardship,” says Lisser, “because it’s more related to the essence of what the person is doing.”
 
http://www.nature.com/news/university-sued-after-firing-creationist-fossil-hunter-1.16281

In terms of getting his job back, those conversations might be Armitage’s undoing. US anti-discrimination laws require employers to reasonably accommodate an employee’s beliefs or religious practices, unless doing so would cause ‘undue hardship’ to the employer, says Justine Lisser, a spokesperson for the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

If Armitage made his living bending metal in a machine shop, an employer would find it difficult to show how his views caused undue hardship, she says. But in an academic setting, telling biology or palaeontology students that life began only a few thousand years ago more clearly undermines the institution’s goals. “It would be an easier showing of undue hardship,” says Lisser, “because it’s more related to the essence of what the person is doing.”
I would agree that being completely wrong about science would constitute "undue hardship" to his employer, a university science department.

 
http://www.nature.com/news/university-sued-after-firing-creationist-fossil-hunter-1.16281

In May 2012, Mark Armitage made a discovery that he had dreamed of for years. While digging in Montana, he uncovered one of the largest triceratops horns ever found in the Hell Creek Formation, a legendary stack of fossil-bearing rocks that date to the last days of the dinosaurs. Armitage drove the horn back home to Los Angeles, California, where his microscopic examination revealed that it contained not only fossilized bone but also preserved layers of soft tissue. “They were brown, stretchy sheets. I was shocked to see anything that was that pliable,” he says.

In February 2013, he published his findings in Acta Histochemica, a journal of cell and tissue research (M. H. Armitage and K. L. Anderson Acta Histochem. 115, 603–608; 2013). Two weeks later, he was fired from his job at California State University, Northridge (CSUN), where he managed the biology department’s electron and confocal microscopy suite.

Now he is embroiled in a long-shot legal fight to get his job back. In July, his lawyers filed a wrongful-termination suit claiming that religious intolerance motivated the dismissal: as a young-Earth creationist, Armitage says that finding soft tissue in the fossil supports his belief that such specimens date to the time of the biblical flood, which he puts at about 4,000 years ago.

The suit alleges that faculty members hostile to Armitage had him fired because they could not stand working with a creationist who had been published in a legitimate scientific journal. He and his attorneys at the Pacific Justice Institute, a conservative legal organization based in Sacramento, California, that focuses on religious and family issues, have repeatedly made that claim in the press. But specialists in US labour law suggest that his claim of religious intolerance might have difficulty standing up if the case goes to trial.

In recent years, a schoolteacher, academic and NASA employee who were creationists have claimed that they were fired unjustly for their religious beliefs. (None were reinstated.) But what makes this case different is that Armitage managed to survive for years in a mainstream academic institution and to publish research in a respected peer-reviewed journal.

Armitage acknowledges that he did that by keeping his views on the age of the fossil out of the paper. Written with biologist Kevin Lee Anderson of Arkansas State University-Beebe, the study simply reported that the horn was found in Hell Creek (which has a well-accepted age of 65 million to 70 million years). “It was just morphology,” says Mary Schweitzer, a palaeontologist at North Carolina State University at Raleigh who reviewed the work before publication, and made the first discovery of soft tissue in dinosaur bones in 2005. “It was fine".

Creationists often appeal to soft-tissue preservation as evidence that dinosaur fossils are thousands rather than millions of years old, says palaeontologist Jack Horner of the Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman, Montana. “Science is about building hypotheses and then attempting to falsify them,” he says. “Creation science or any kind of pseudoscience is just the opposite. It is coming up with an idea or a notion or anything else and finding evidence to support it.”

According to his lawsuit, Armitage never tried to conceal his beliefs from his employer. The filing says that when he was interviewed for his job at CSUN in November 2009, he did not hide that he holds degrees from the Christian-fundamentalist Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia, and the Institute for Creation Research, previously in San Diego, California. In an interview with Nature, Armitage said that he was also equally open about his roughly 30 technical articles on microscopy and his 2008 self-published book Jesus is like my Scanning Electron Microscope.

The lawsuit also claims that Armitage excelled in his job, receiving numerous letters of commendation. “I’m not a microscopist but as far as I could tell, Armitage was a good one,” Paul Wilson, a biologist at CSUN, told Nature.

CSUN declined to comment on Armitage’s performance or its reasons for ending his employment. However, Jeffrey Noblitt, associate vice-president of marketing and communications at CSUN, did stress in an email that Armitage’s position had been “temporary”.

Armitage freely admits that he often engaged students in conversations, giving his opinion on issues such as the age of the remarkably well-preserved cells in the triceratops horn. “To me, the obvious conclusion is they’re young. They can’t be 68 million years old,” he says.

In terms of getting his job back, those conversations might be Armitage’s undoing. US anti-discrimination laws require employers to reasonably accommodate an employee’s beliefs or religious practices, unless doing so would cause ‘undue hardship’ to the employer, says Justine Lisser, a spokesperson for the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

If Armitage made his living bending metal in a machine shop, an employer would find it difficult to show how his views caused undue hardship, she says. But in an academic setting, telling biology or palaeontology students that life began only a few thousand years ago more clearly undermines the institution’s goals. “It would be an easier showing of undue hardship,” says Lisser, “because it’s more related to the essence of what the person is doing.”
See ya later. Don't let the doorknob hit you where the good lord split you.

 
he did not hide that he holds degrees from the Christian-fundamentalist Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia, and the Institute for Creation Research, previously in San Diego, California.
:lmao: Good gravy. Why would they hire this rube?

 
Mr. Know-It-All said:
CBusAlex said:
Mr. Know-It-All said:
But for scientists, is it as simple as everything has always existed with no start point?
Really, it's as simple as "we don't know... yet"
Right, and that goes to what I was saying. The religious say something from nothing must be outside the laws of nature - hence God. But...maybe we don't understand all the laws of nature and this original start point will be explained once that knowledge is attained. It really is fascinating - but far beyond my comprehension - so i'll wait til the experts figure it out.
This is no different than a thousand other things throughout time that were eventually figured out.

What are clouds?

Science: Dunno yet.

Religion: It is the backs of angels. 100% sure of that.

What are the stars?

Science: Not sure yet.

Religion: They're holes in the sky, where the gods look down at us. Guaranteed.

Why is the sky blue?

Science: We're still working on figuring that out.

Religion: Because god thinks it's the most beautiful color. You can take that to the bank.

Why hasn't it rained in 2 months?

Science: We're close to figuring out how to predict the weather.

Religon: Because you haven't prayed enough. And you sinned. I know this for a fact.

Where did the stuff from the Big Bang come from?

Science: Still working on that.

Religion: God put it there, duh. No doubt in my mind.

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me 11,000 times, well, I'm just gonna keep making the same mistake over and over again.

 

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