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Creepier Belief system (1 Viewer)

Which is creepier

  • Scientology

    Votes: 30 88.2%

  • Creationism

    Votes: 4 11.8%
  • Total voters
    34
If this isn't what happened, where did the dragon theories come from? Every other human myth has a basis in reality, except dragons...
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Minotaurs, Chimeras, Hydras, Mermaids, Centaur, Sphinx, Unicorns, etc.Somehow dragons are different?
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minotaurs, mermaids, centaurs, & Sphinx... um... how is putting a human head on something ultimately creative? Seriously... not really all that big of a stretch...Chimeras... Lion + Eagle = Chimera (snake too maybe)... its REAL THINGS!! maybe mixed some, but real...Hydras... can I just point out that most hydras look just like dragons with multiple heads... again, not exactly that much of a stretch... especially if they looked at bones how we do... I'm surprised we havne't found remains of 35 legged dog/cat/bird/lizards yet with how some fossils are found }=OP
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What about the sharks with laser beams on their heads?Hmmmmm?
 
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And, crikey would get this through your head, THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE FOR CREATION. None. Zip. Zilch. NADA! Seriously. NOTHING.
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That's funny, I see evidence every day.
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No, you don't. If you're talking about 'look how pretty this tree is', that's not evidence of Creation because the existence of that tree (and even 'how pretty it is')can be explained in an evolutionary way as well. No ground is gained.
 
You claim to know how the Universe formed. That takes some wrinklies.
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I am again wishing I knew how to put up the pot-kettle-black thing...your saying creation didn't happen, but evolution did, how do you know how the world got here?
 
I think that what most of these debates on this board come down to, as I believe this one is, is that the creationists have a real stake in winning this argument as it is line with thier inner core of beliefs. I, speaking only for myself, believe very much in the concept of evolution, but I readily admit that it doesn't answer the question of how did the earth happen? But to me, as a non-creationist, non-christian, it really doesn't matter to me that much. I don't have issue with saying, "I don't know". Creationists by their very belief system, can't say "I don't know" and that is where the disconnect comes. I think that man's pursuit of science to better understand our world and its origins is fascinating and noble, but it hasn't really proved it yet. I will keep waiting and honor the pursuit of knowledge because I don't have the faith to blindly believe. Good stuff as always though.
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Good post.As is evidenced by Crosseye's "well then where did Earth come from" post, creationists feel that if something can't be answered, well then the answer must be some higher magical diety.Creationists have a need to have the answer NOW, whereas evolutionists realize that scientific theory takes time.
 
ok, so how did everything get here? it cannot just be because matter can NEVER be created nor destroyed, so EVENTUALLY there has to be a creator [of matter] ...
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Do you see the rather obvious contradiction here?
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no, because at some point matter/energy had to be created, then not allowed to be created any more...the laws of science/physics/etc. cannot create or destory matter/energy, only convert...BUT if matter just is, there is no way for the matter to become life without an outside force... yes, scientists have done it, but scientists are the outside force then...
 
If this isn't what happened, where did the dragon theories come from? Every other human myth has a basis in reality, except dragons...
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Minotaurs, Chimeras, Hydras, Mermaids, Centaur, Sphinx, Unicorns, etc.Somehow dragons are different?
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minotaurs, mermaids, centaurs, & Sphinx... um... how is putting a human head on something ultimately creative? Seriously... not really all that big of a stretch...Chimeras... Lion + Eagle = Chimera (snake too maybe)... its REAL THINGS!! maybe mixed some, but real...Hydras... can I just point out that most hydras look just like dragons with multiple heads... again, not exactly that much of a stretch... especially if they looked at bones how we do... I'm surprised we havne't found remains of 35 legged dog/cat/bird/lizards yet with how some fossils are found }=OP
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What about the sharks with laser beams on their heads?Mmmmmm?
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someone likes laserbeams too much... }=OP
 
And, crikey would get this through your head, THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE FOR CREATION.  None.  Zip.  Zilch.  NADA!  Seriously.  NOTHING.
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That's funny, I see evidence every day.
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No, you don't. If you're talking about 'look how pretty this tree is', that's not evidence of Creation because the existence of that tree (and even 'how pretty it is')can be explained in an evolutionary way as well. No ground is gained.
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explain it then...
 
I think that what most of these debates on this board come down to, as I believe this one is, is that the creationists have a real stake in winning this argument as it is line with thier inner core of beliefs.  I, speaking only for myself, believe very much in the concept of evolution, but I readily admit that it doesn't answer the question of how did the earth happen?  But to me, as a non-creationist, non-christian, it really doesn't matter to me that much.  I don't have issue with saying, "I don't know".  Creationists by their very belief system, can't say "I don't know" and that is where the disconnect comes.  I think that man's pursuit of science to better understand our world and its origins is fascinating and noble, but it hasn't really proved it yet.  I will keep waiting and honor the pursuit of knowledge because I don't have the faith to blindly believe.  Good stuff as always though.
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Good post.As is evidenced by Crosseye's "well then where did Earth come from" post, creationists feel that if something can't be answered, well then the answer must be some higher magical diety.Creationists have a need to have the answer NOW, whereas evolutionists realize that scientific theory takes time.
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but the scientific theory has NEVER had any proof...oh yeah, I know evolution happens within a species, the part that has no proof is:a) BILLIONS of years ago matter wnet POOF and became aliveb) lizards evolved into birdsc) who knows how mammals evolved, etc... but however that happeend...this stuff is not only not science, its not proven AT ALL!!!
 
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The haughty scientists beg for more time to prove how everything came into existence, but it begs the question how did lighting stike some primordial ooze and lead to a self replicating organism that then brached out into the millions of varieties of plant and animal life that we have today? How old is the earth? Would it have time to allow for this evolution? Where did this ooze come from? Where did the lightning come from? How is it that the planet earth is in perfect position for live to emerge. Pretty coincidental.I am not a new earth literalist, but I find science's attempts to invalidate intelligent design to require more faith than the faith that I have in my God.

 
Larry, you really don't see the contradiction with your argument? I believe traditionally called the "first cause" argument, the logical problem is that by your way of thinking there has to be a creator. Well the fallacy with that is that by that line of thinking, then there logically has to be a creator for your creator, and so on, and so on, and so on. There's no end to that argument.

 
Larry, you really don't see the contradiction with your argument? I believe traditionally called the "first cause" argument, the logical problem is that by your way of thinking there has to be a creator. Well the fallacy with that is that by that line of thinking, then there logically has to be a creator for your creator, and so on, and so on, and so on. There's no end to that argument.
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That was Thomas Aquinas' dilemma when he eventually posited "there is no uncaused cause but God". It does lead to the intriguing question as to where did God emerge from, but I fall back to his statement of who he is "IAM, IAM".
 
ok, so how did everything get here? it cannot just be because matter can NEVER be created nor destroyed, so EVENTUALLY there has to be a creator [of matter] ...
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Do you see the rather obvious contradiction here?
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no
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Carry on, then.
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did u even read the rest of it?
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Yes. It was just handwaving. And your original statement still contains a blatant contradiction. Matter cannot be created, therefore it must have been created?
 
Larry, you really don't see the contradiction with your argument? I believe traditionally called the "first cause" argument, the logical problem is that by your way of thinking there has to be a creator. Well the fallacy with that is that by that line of thinking, then there logically has to be a creator for your creator, and so on, and so on, and so on. There's no end to that argument.
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not necessarily...See, I'm not arguing that everything needs a creator... I'm arguing that there is no way that evolution could have happened the way that we say ti did...I'm saying MATTER/ENERGY can't be created nor destoryed and really don't do anything unless an outside force acts upon it... so something with a will had to act on it...unless your eally think aliens made earth how it is, you have no argument for how earth got here without God...But who made the aliens?There has to be an eternal force that causes things to happen somehwere... outside eternal force... a God...otherwise everything is impossible...
 
Would it have time to allow for this evolution? Where did this ooze come from? Where did the lightning come from? How is it that the planet earth is in perfect position for live to emerge. Pretty coincidental.I am not a new earth literalist, but I find science's attempts to invalidate intelligent design to require more faith than the faith that I have in my God.
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That's my point. We don't know. But that doesn't mean we have to stop the pursuit of understanding. It doesn't mean we stop the scientific process and say, "Well, it must be a god".How is this any different than the Greek creating gods for things they didn't understand?
 
Would it have time to allow for this evolution? Where did this ooze come from? Where did the lightning come from? How is it that the planet earth is in perfect position for live to emerge. Pretty coincidental.I am not a new earth literalist, but I find science's attempts to invalidate intelligent design to require more faith than the faith that I have in my God.
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That's my point. We don't know. But that doesn't mean we have to stop the pursuit of understanding. It doesn't mean we stop the scientific process and say, "Well, it must be a god".How is this any different than the Greek creating gods for things they didn't understand?
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simple. The greek gods were made up.
 
There has to be an eternal force that causes things to happen somehwere... outside eternal force... a God...otherwise everything is impossible...
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And that is the crux I was trying to get at earlier. For you and your belief system, I agree there has to be a God. But as Shuke just said above, for me, there doesn't have to be a definitive answer. For me, evolution or astrophysics may very well not yet have the final answer, with that I would agree, but they are closer than we were 100 years ago, and not as close as we will be next year. The pursuit of knowledge goes forward....
 
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The greek gods were made up.
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That's an unwise thing to say. If the Greek gods don't exist and you believe in them, you lose nothing. If the Greek gods exist and you don't believe in them, you will burn forever.Isn't it much wiser to believe in the Greek gods, just in case?
 
Yes. It was just handwaving. And your original statement still contains a blatant contradiction. Matter cannot be created, therefore it must have been created?
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matter cannot create itself... aka - if there is no matter there without an outside force, matter will not appear...that is what I was saying...
 
I'm arguing that there is no way that evolution could have happened the way that we say ti did...
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If you come up with a sensible argument for this, you will win a Nobel prize.
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no I wouldn't, because the scientific community woudl say Im' crazy and didn't prove it really because htey are as dogmatic as Christians are about Creation...
 
The greek gods were made up.
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That's an unwise thing to say. If the Greek gods don't exist and you believe in them, you lose nothing. If the Greek gods exist and you don't believe in them, you will burn forever.Isn't it much wiser to believe in the Greek gods, just in case?
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YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY LYING!
 
There has to be an eternal force that causes things to happen somehwere... outside eternal force... a God...otherwise everything is impossible...
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And that is the crux I was trying to get at earlier. For you and your belief system, I agree there has to be a God. But as Shuke just said above, for me, there doesn't have to be a definitive answer. For me, evolution or astrophysics may very well not yet have the final answer, with that I would agree, but they are closer than we were 100 years ago, and not as close as we will be next year. The pursuit of knowledge goes forward....
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and my point is that creation is as viable an answer as evolution is...both are equally as provable as a way that WE GOT HERE!!
 
That's my point. We don't know. But that doesn't mean we have to stop the pursuit of understanding. It doesn't mean we stop the scientific process and say, "Well, it must be a god".How is this any different than the Greek creating gods for things they didn't understand?
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*inserts standard argument he's repeated multiple times here about prophecies in the Bible, etc.**responds to himself about Nostradamus, etc.**responds back that nostradamus was wrong at times, the Bible wasn't**listens to self respond about how Revelations hasn't happened yet, therefore can't prove antyhing... also the Bible can't prophesy to itself**gives up, 'czu, again, your pot is more black than my kettle is...*
 
both are equally as provable as a way that WE GOT HERE!!
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You for got to add: As of Today, they are equally provable.There may be scientific advances which lead us toward the ultimate answer of life, the universe, and everything.But there will NEVER be a religious advance that will prove the existance of your belief system.
 
Yes. It was just handwaving. And your original statement still contains a blatant contradiction. Matter cannot be created, therefore it must have been created?
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matter cannot create itself... aka - if there is no matter there without an outside force, matter will not appear...that is what I was saying...
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Dude, the conservation of matter law has nothing to do with whether or not matter can "create itself" ( :rotflmao: ) it has to do with the total number of atoms in the universe remaining constant.
 
both are equally as provable as a way that WE GOT HERE!!
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You for got to add: As of Today, they are equally provable.There may be scientific advances which lead us toward the ultimate answer of life, the universe, and everything.But there will NEVER be a religious advance that will prove the existance of your belief system.
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oh yeah, how about this:what if there is a war in a field outside of Jeruselam known as "Megiddo" where millions of people die?What if soon hereafter there is a WWIII where 2 billion people (1/3 of earth's population) dies?would those things prove it?what about when the Jews rebuild thier temple?one world government with a man at the head who claims to be God?science can never prove how we got here, I can never prove how we got here, niether can anything religious... but I can prove the Bible is true...it takes faith to believe in evolution, because no matter how many scientific advances are made, you can't prove the past happened by science...Now, fi they invent a time machine and go back adn video tape stuff or something... I'd pro'lly believe then... }=O)
 
That's my point. We don't know. But that doesn't mean we have to stop the pursuit of understanding. It doesn't mean we stop the scientific process and say, "Well, it must be a god".How is this any different than the Greek creating gods for things they didn't understand?
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*inserts standard argument he's repeated multiple times here about prophecies in the Bible, etc.**responds to himself about Nostradamus, etc.**responds back that nostradamus was wrong at times, the Bible wasn't**listens to self respond about how Revelations hasn't happened yet, therefore can't prove antyhing... also the Bible can't prophesy to itself**gives up, 'czu, again, your pot is more black than my kettle is...*
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Nice copout.
 
both are equally as provable as a way that WE GOT HERE!!
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You for got to add: As of Today, they are equally provable.There may be scientific advances which lead us toward the ultimate answer of life, the universe, and everything.But there will NEVER be a religious advance that will prove the existance of your belief system.
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oh yeah, how about this:what if there is a war in a field outside of Jeruselam known as "Megiddo" where millions of people die?What if soon hereafter there is a WWIII where 2 billion people (1/3 of earth's population) dies?would those things prove it?what about when the Jews rebuild thier temple?one world government with a man at the head who claims to be God?science can never prove how we got here, I can never prove how we got here, niether can anything religious... but I can prove the Bible is true...it takes faith to believe in evolution, because no matter how many scientific advances are made, you can't prove the past happened by science...Now, fi they invent a time machine and go back adn video tape stuff or something... I'd pro'lly believe then... }=O)
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None of that has any relevance. It would simply be coincidental.There is also a theory (held by more of the world population than believes in your religion) that there is a six-armed god of war who will try to destroy all of creation.If a six-armed god of war shows up on your doorstep, will you stop believing the nonsensical ravings of Revelation?
 
I don't mean this as a shot at anyone, but since this thread has taken off this way, Creation has made up some ground versus Scientology in the actual poll.

 
That's my point.  We don't know.  But that doesn't mean we have to stop the pursuit of understanding.  It doesn't mean we stop the scientific process and say, "Well, it must be a god".How is this any different than the Greek creating gods for things they didn't understand?
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*inserts standard argument he's repeated multiple times here about prophecies in the Bible, etc.**responds to himself about Nostradamus, etc.**responds back that nostradamus was wrong at times, the Bible wasn't**listens to self respond about how Revelations hasn't happened yet, therefore can't prove antyhing... also the Bible can't prophesy to itself**gives up, 'czu, again, your pot is more black than my kettle is...*
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Nice copout.
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and "hey, look, my unprovable, unscientific theory means that your God isn't real" isn't a copout?I just skipped repeating the same argument for 3 days and put both in here now so we can GET PAST THEM AND SAY SOMETHING NEW!!!
 
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I don't mean this as a shot at anyone, but since this thread has taken off this way, Creation has made up some ground versus Scientology in the actual poll.
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the onlys reason Scientology dosn't have all the votes:1. athiests will say Creationists are crazies no matter what just 'cuz they said so2. no one relaly knows what scientology is...
 
how in the world is something done in a lab spontaneously forming?

seriously, they were MAKING the things appear...

I'm not saying that it can't happen, but until they get more than the "building block of protiens and DNA" you can't say life formed that way...

there is more "evidence" for Creation than Evolution...
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What the hell? Scientists aren't sitting there with tweezers assempling cytosine. What a completely uninformed thing to say. The experiment goes like this: this is what we thing the conditions of the earth were. Here's some water, some carbon dioxide, some methane, blah blah blah, all the things that would have been on primitive earth. Then they turn on some electricity and see what happens. They don't manipulate it in any way. The first time this was done, they had no idea what was going to happen. But ta-da, there's the cytosine. It wasn't consciously made by the scientists. To claim it was is sheer ignorance.As for your second bit, wtf? Of course you can. It's FAR more plausible than any other theory to date.

And, crikey would get this through your head, THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE FOR CREATION. None. Zip. Zilch. NADA! Seriously. NOTHING.
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So how did the earth happen?
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poofing
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The Earth was created by Greenwich Village?
 
That's my point.  We don't know.  But that doesn't mean we have to stop the pursuit of understanding.  It doesn't mean we stop the scientific process and say, "Well, it must be a god".

How is this any different than the Greek creating gods for things they didn't understand?
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*inserts standard argument he's repeated multiple times here about prophecies in the Bible, etc.**responds to himself about Nostradamus, etc.*

*responds back that nostradamus was wrong at times, the Bible wasn't*

*listens to self respond about how Revelations hasn't happened yet, therefore can't prove antyhing... also the Bible can't prophesy to itself*

*gives up, 'czu, again, your pot is more black than my kettle is...*
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Nice copout.
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and "hey, look, my unprovable, unscientific theory means that your God isn't real" isn't a copout?I just skipped repeating the same argument for 3 days and put both in here now so we can GET PAST THEM AND SAY SOMETHING NEW!!!
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All scientific theories are unprovable. That's the nature of science and it's not in any way a slight or a discredit, it's the way it is.But at least natural process is a theory. The deity supposition isn't even that. It's speculation. It's a flight of fancy. It's a fairy tale. Go ahead and believe it, but it's supremely foolish to get indignant about its veracity.

 
there also "were" giant lizards...
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You're just being stubborn. Do you really think humans are incapable of imagining really big lizards without there actually being a really big lizard?
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they probably were... BUT the thing is... we have fossils that are big, and many of those fossils are the same as lizards that we have in smaller versions now...we have bones of giant lizards that match the bone structures of lizards alive today...

the chances of evolution are like 1 in hundreds of hundreds of billions...

what are the chances of the same lizard evolving twice?
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:rotflmao:
 
All scientific theories are unprovable. That's the nature of science and it's not in any way a slight or a discredit, it's the way it is.

But at least natural process is a theory. The deity supposition isn't even that. It's speculation. It's a flight of fancy. It's a fairy tale. Go ahead and believe it, but it's supremely foolish to get indignant about its veracity.
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that isn't the nature of science, that's the nature of modern science...can you prove the theory of relativity? What about gravity? They are provable...

evolution is not... evolution as a way we got here is not science because it is completely unprovable without a time machine...

 
there also "were" giant lizards...
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You're just being stubborn. Do you really think humans are incapable of imagining really big lizards without there actually being a really big lizard?
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they probably were... BUT the thing is... we have fossils that are big, and many of those fossils are the same as lizards that we have in smaller versions now...we have bones of giant lizards that match the bone structures of lizards alive today...

the chances of evolution are like 1 in hundreds of hundreds of billions...

what are the chances of the same lizard evolving twice?
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:rotflmao:
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what's so funny?The chances of an cell/organism/acid thinger evolving, then evolving further, then evolving limbs, organs, etc.... especially the eye... are VERY SLIM!!

now, then, the odds of 2 seperate creatures evolving sepreatly the same way... wouldn't that be the odds of it happening TIMES the odds of it happening?

 
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The chances of an atom evolving, then evolving further, then evolving limbs, organs, etc.... especially the eye... are VERY SLIM!!
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Lol at the idea of ATOMs evolving.You are dumber than a talking cucumber.
 
Would it have time to allow for this evolution? Where did this ooze come from? Where did the lightning come from? How is it that the planet earth is in perfect position for live to emerge. Pretty coincidental.I am not a new earth literalist, but I find science's attempts to invalidate intelligent design to require more faith than the faith that I have in my God.
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That's my point. We don't know. But that doesn't mean we have to stop the pursuit of understanding. It doesn't mean we stop the scientific process and say, "Well, it must be a god".How is this any different than the Greek creating gods for things they didn't understand?
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We shouldn't stop our pursuit of knowledge, many things occur in nature thgat are a result of chain reactions from an initial cause. The difference between believing in the tri-une God of the Christian faith is that we have the reports and the faith of our predecessors to provide us with who that God is. Just reading the Old Testament, I would find it pretty difficult to have faith like the faith shown by the saints of old. There are some pretty fantastical stories. I am in awe that the early forefathers could have faith in the savior who had not yet revealed himself.Yet as a modern day Christian, I can look back at the life (and death) of the promised savior and judge for myself (through the accounts of our early church fathers). Others may view this as mythical, but I view it as very real. I have been on the other side (unbelief), so I can relate to how much faith Christian belief requires. It certainly seems pretty fantastic, but the proof is there.I wonder why so many skeptics try to disprove faith? What vested interest do they have? Aren't they evangelical in their insistence that there is no God?
 
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