Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Cruz over Nicks? Why? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Futz
- Start date
Jimbo Slice
Footballguy
Shhhhhhh
Futz
Footballguy
Don't get me wrong, I like me some Cruz but dayum..... Nicks is one heatlhy season away from being the second WR off the board and possibly a first round pick in 13'
Shermanator
Footballguy
Thats putting it mildlyI know Nicks has been gimpy at times but he's back to full practice now. Cruz is explosive no doubt but only one year of history to go on. Their current ADPs are similar Cruz: 3.10 Nicks 4.04.
I really think when right, Nicks is a top 5 WR in this league.
What gives?
There's no f*cking way I'm taking Victor Cruz over Hakeem Nicks - what are you guys smoking? #2 WRs have been getting falsely pimped by fantasy sites for years. The exception this year is Jordy - he was a top pick and a phenomenal talent. There's a reason Cruz was undrafted. It doesn't elite talent to play opposite Nicks.
Nicks is a 2nd round talent going in the 4th right now. Cruz is a 5th/6th going in the 3rd. Which is on every one of my teams this year? Nicks.
Nicks is a 2nd round talent going in the 4th right now. Cruz is a 5th/6th going in the 3rd. Which is on every one of my teams this year? Nicks.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jordy's not an exception. He blew up on a very similar set of fluky circumstances full of irrationally long plays that happened due to missed tackles, blown coverages, etc.Odds of him having so few catches combined with so many long scores again are astronomical. Jordy and Cruz are both going three to four rounds too high for what they ought to be expected to contribute. But FF'ers can generally only see the most recent year's statline and draw conclusions from that.
Futz
Footballguy
Alright, I can buy that I guess. Although is there a "safe" pick in the NFL? I usually don't win leagues when I play it safe. My eyes tell me the safe picks are the most talented players.
Last edited by a moderator:
Phenix
Footballguy
Took Nicks as my #1 with the plan that he would slide. People get so worried by injuries, yes some have the knack for getting hurt more than others, but this is football... anyone can get hurt on any play.
Nicks was ranked in my Top 5 WRs at the draft but took him as the 9th and 12th WRs of the board in my 2 big leagues. (Not that you care, just sharing my plan and where I got him)
Nicks was ranked in my Top 5 WRs at the draft but took him as the 9th and 12th WRs of the board in my 2 big leagues. (Not that you care, just sharing my plan and where I got him)
lol if u think cruz doesnt have elite talent.regardless, id prefer nicks but both look like nice acquisitions.
Cruz has shown he has the talent. Not a question there.He also seemed to show that he wasnt simply the next beneficiary of Eli's love for the slot receiver (turned Steve Smith into a pro-bowler); but the fact that he was in the slot and got so many snaps there b/c the Giants often got behind in games early on last year (i.e. Seattle)...that needs to be taken into consideration.Im looking forward to see how this plays out.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Cruz outperformed Nick's best season, in 14 games. And he isn't always hurt. If Cruz was drafted in the 1st round, out of an SEC school, nobody would question it.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I'm a Nicks owner but I understand why Cruz is going before Nicks in PPR leagues. I think the majority of the passes will go to Cruz as the slot receiver.
steveski
Footballguy
As a Giants fan, I'm taking Cruz as well. Everything I saw in the preseason shows that it wasn't a 1 year fluke. They will both see their targets so you can't go wrong with Nicks, but I love Cruz's big play ability after even simple catches. He can break for a TD at any moment, yet he can still play as a possession receiver.
Steel Dillo
Footballguy
This discussion reminds me a lot of the mike Wallace Antonio Brown discussion. In a PPR, I take Cruz & Brown 1st every time. In a non-PPR it's closer, but I still think I'd take Cruz & Brown over Wallace & Nicks.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Whenever I watch Cruz I come away with impression that he is pretty much uncoverable one-on-one, which is how he's often guarded in the slot. Eli always looks his way, too. I can't find any fault with Cruz, and would take him over Nicks, who at least has some ??s this year.
bbuster
Footballguy
I know it's only preseason, but I watched Cruz get open consistently without Nicks on the field. Eli was looking to throw to him constantly and he was always open. Nicks is great and I wouldn't mind having either one.
Todem
Footballguy
No doubt. V.Cruz is a PPR stud, and an explosive player after the catch. He and Antonio Brown are going to explode. Well....Cruz already did. Brown and Cruz will be going in the early to mid second round next year.No doubt in my mind. Both are fast, run great routes, have great hands, great YAC. Nicks is also a stud Can't deny that. Cruz, Nicks.....either one is a great WR to have. Nicks is getting value this year only because he had a broken foot a month ago...otherwise it's not a conversation about 4th round for Nicks. But people are dismissing Cruz.....and those that are...what were you watching last season? Uber stud WR.
Last edited by a moderator:
wallace has a higher catch rate, a higher ypc, and higher td per target. so i guess i dont get how brown goes ahead of him. i must be missing something.
bengalbuck
Footballguy
I like them both and have them ranked almost identically.
For what its worth, Vegas has over/unders on both guys for Yards, TDs, etc. and they like Cruz just a little bit more, but they too have both with pretty identical over/unders.
For what its worth, Vegas has over/unders on both guys for Yards, TDs, etc. and they like Cruz just a little bit more, but they too have both with pretty identical over/unders.
Exactly what I did:1. DMC2. S. Jackson3. D. Martin4. NicksNicks in the 4th round is a steal. He will be the guy Eli goes to in the red zone more than Cruz.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Cruz has also talked about how well they are able to read each other now. Nicks and Cruz bith went in the 3rd round of my ppr draft last night.
ponchsox
Footballguy
A little concerning:
Hakeem Nicks (foot) was held out of Giants practice Sunday.
Nicks admitted to some soreness in his surgically repaired foot, but coach Tom Coughlin didn't express much concern and expects Nicks back on the practice field Monday. We're not worried yet, but Nicks' foot is a situation worth monitoring considering the Giants' opener against the Cowboys is three days away.
Source: Mike Garafolo on Twitter
Hakeem Nicks (foot) was held out of Giants practice Sunday.
Nicks admitted to some soreness in his surgically repaired foot, but coach Tom Coughlin didn't express much concern and expects Nicks back on the practice field Monday. We're not worried yet, but Nicks' foot is a situation worth monitoring considering the Giants' opener against the Cowboys is three days away.
Source: Mike Garafolo on Twitter
Not concerned. The bone is completely healed by now. There will be scar tissue that needs to be worked out and that is his pain, completely normal for this kind of injury. He will likely have some pain for several weeks, but it's not going to re-break the bone by playing on it.Starting Nicks with confidence.
Last edited by a moderator:
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I have Nicks, but honestly I'd rather have Cruz. He went a few picks before I took Hakeem.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Phenix
Footballguy
Would you be sttarting Nicks without confidence?
Because people have been saying that about him for the past 2 years, but he always goes down in game for a bit and ends up missing a couple. Plus...Nicks will get the double coverage out of the two of them.I know Nicks has been gimpy at times but he's back to full practice now. Cruz is explosive no doubt but only one year of history to go on. Their current ADPs are similar Cruz: 3.10 Nicks 4.04.I really think when right, Nicks is a top 5 WR in this league. What gives?
Yes, possibly if it was week 11 or 12 since the injury. It is going into week 15 since his surgery. The injury was said to have a 12 week recovery period.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Dont think the double team thing is true anymore.Because people have been saying that about him for the past 2 years, but he always goes down in game for a bit and ends up missing a couple. Plus...Nicks will get the double coverage out of the two of them.I know Nicks has been gimpy at times but he's back to full practice now. Cruz is explosive no doubt but only one year of history to go on. Their current ADPs are similar Cruz: 3.10 Nicks 4.04.I really think when right, Nicks is a top 5 WR in this league. What gives?
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
I find that a strange thing to say since Victor Cruz actually was a top 5 WR last year, which is essentially his first ever season. So both Nicks and Cruz each have 1 season where they put up top 5 WR numbers for fantasy points per game, but Nicks has played 2 more seasons than Cruz has. Then when you take into account all the injury issues Nicks has had in his young career, I think Cruz most certainly should have the higher ADP at the moment.I know Nicks has been gimpy at times but he's back to full practice now. Cruz is explosive no doubt but only one year of history to go on. Their current ADPs are similar Cruz: 3.10 Nicks 4.04.
I really think when right, Nicks is a top 5 WR in this league.
What gives?
Last edited by a moderator:
Cyclones
Footballguy
I took Nicks and Nelson at the 3/4 turn with Cruz still on the board, and would do it again. Nelson started blowing up in the 2010 playoffs and it continued. I think both finish top 6 this year and I teamed them up with Megatron to give myself a massive advantage at WR in what has turned into a passing league. You can have your Doug Martins, Steven Jacksons, and Frank Gores in rounds 2-3-4. Give me stud WRs.
cruz has missed a ton more time than nicks. he missed almost an entire season due to injury.I find that a strange thing to say since Victor Cruz actually was a top 5 WR last year, which is essentially his first ever season. So both Nicks and Cruz each have 1 season where they put up top 5 WR numbers for fantasy points per game, but Nicks has played 2 more seasons than Cruz has. Then when you take into account all the injury issues Nicks has had in his young career, I think Cruz most certainly should have the higher ADP at the moment.I know Nicks has been gimpy at times but he's back to full practice now. Cruz is explosive no doubt but only one year of history to go on. Their current ADPs are similar Cruz: 3.10 Nicks 4.04.
I really think when right, Nicks is a top 5 WR in this league.
What gives?
Last edited by a moderator:
Kinda like DBryant and MAustin, the youngins are here to play. The old guys cant stay healthy. I think NYG WRs are 1A and 1B, so take the bargain with Nicks to the bankI know Nicks has been gimpy at times but he's back to full practice now. Cruz is explosive no doubt but only one year of history to go on. Their current ADPs are similar Cruz: 3.10 Nicks 4.04.I really think when right, Nicks is a top 5 WR in this league. What gives?
Last edited by a moderator:
Tau837
Footballguy
Including postseason last year (all stats from PFF):Nicks:19 games, 1257 snaps, 168 targets104/1636/11 receiving, 61.9% catch percentage, 15 avoided/broken tackles8 drops, 1 fumbleTargeted on 5 interceptionsCruz:20 games, 1051 snaps, 151 targets103/1805/10 receiving, 68.2% catch percentage, 16 avoided/broken tackles13 drops, 1 fumbleTargeted on 3 interceptionsNicks faced stronger coverage, which I assume contributed to his lower catch percentage. However, Nicks was more reliable, with fewer drops on more targets.Cruz was more explosive, with 5 plays of at least 68 yards and another 4 plays that went for 40+. That's amazing, but I am skeptical that it will be repeatable.Interestingly, PFF shows the following for deep passing, defined as targets 20+ yards downfield:Cruz: 30 targets, 16 catchable, 1 drop, 15/552/4 receivingNicks: 40 targets, 16 catchable, 1 drop, 15/542/4 receivingThis seems to show Cruz wasn't necessarily a stronger deep threat.What it comes down to for me is that I think Nicks will maintain his performance, but I don't think Cruz will.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Slight exaggeration. When Cruz was put on IR in October 2010, it wasn't because he had a season ending injury -- it was because he was low on the depth chart and it didn't make sense for the Giants to tie up a roster spot for a guy who doesn't play. If Cruz had been a starter, he probably would have returned after 3-5 games.
theprince
Footballguy
Excellent thought out post. Shows they are both excellent options. I will say though that having a sore foot days before the season is troubling.
Futz
Footballguy
If I could change that 'good' to 'great' posting I would. Really interesting numbers.Anyone think Martellus Bennett might bite into someone's #s if he proves effective?
Futz
Footballguy
You see the problem with slot guys is that their TD totals can be wildly unpredicatable IMO. Sure Cruz pops a big TD here and there and shakes loose for a few more but just like Desean Jackson or Wes Welker, they can have total downer years in the TD department. They just don't present a big red zone threat. Nicks can score in way imaginable. I like that versatility on a week to week basis.I find that a strange thing to say since Victor Cruz actually was a top 5 WR last year, which is essentially his first ever season. So both Nicks and Cruz each have 1 season where they put up top 5 WR numbers for fantasy points per game, but Nicks has played 2 more seasons than Cruz has. Then when you take into account all the injury issues Nicks has had in his young career, I think Cruz most certainly should have the higher ADP at the moment.I know Nicks has been gimpy at times but he's back to full practice now. Cruz is explosive no doubt but only one year of history to go on. Their current ADPs are similar Cruz: 3.10 Nicks 4.04.
I really think when right, Nicks is a top 5 WR in this league.
What gives?
I believe Bennett will get his but his presence will help both Nicks and Cruz. I really wanted Eli for my QB this yr but he came off the board way earlier than I thought he would (early 3rd).
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
Those numbers seem to indicate that Cruz is a much strong deep threat.Cruz had 18.4 yards per target vs Nicks' 13.55 YPT.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
How good is Cruz? He was THE WR teams wanted to shut down in the playoffs last year, which is why the others produced more than him, but over the course of a 16-week season, he'll get his. I am not sure he can keep scoring all of those really long TDs, but he should still be pretty great.
Nicks is just as good, if not better when healthy, but there it is...WHEN healthy. He always seems to miss a game here, or a game there. If he can ever put together a full season of not missing any action, we are probably looking at 1,300 yards+, 80+ catches and 10+ touchdowns, but can he do it?
Nicks is just as good, if not better when healthy, but there it is...WHEN healthy. He always seems to miss a game here, or a game there. If he can ever put together a full season of not missing any action, we are probably looking at 1,300 yards+, 80+ catches and 10+ touchdowns, but can he do it?
netnalp
Footballguy
Bennett in the preseason games ran routes that caused the DB to choose between covering Bennett or helping to double Cruz. Eli would hit the one that was open.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Yeah people are totally dismissing a guy with a higher ADP, in favor of a better WR with a lower ADP. Shocking.
Last edited by a moderator:
I was specifically referencing the Shark Pool thoughts. Also, it's your opinion that Nicks is a a better WR. Many people disagree.
Run It Up
Footballguy
And its a fact that Cruz has a higher ADP, so whos being dismissed here?
