Dave Kingman (1 Viewer)

[Encyclopedia Brown]

During the week of the HOF vote there is always a list of names of players with high stats in a particular category who are never going to be inducted.

Kingman has 442 homeruns. The highest number of anyone not in the Hall.

.302 lifetime OBP, including eight times where was under .300 (in 1986 he had 604 PA with a .255 OBP)

His career high total for walks was 62--in 666 PA, also a career high.

In fifteen years in the league he was first or second in strikeouts six times--and was in the Top Ten six other times.

He was atrocious defensively. Just awful. Both in LF and at 1B, the two easiest positions to play.

Contrast Kingman to someone like Jack Cust, a player who has struggled to find a permanent spot in the big leagues. Cust K's at a ridiculous rate, can't play defense anywhere, but knows how to take a walk--career OBP .374

With the sabermetric knowledge of today I don't think Kingman would have gotten more than 500 AB's in the majors as opposed to the 7400 he did get.

 

[MrPhoenix]

He'd either strictly be a pinch hitter (unlikely), DH on a real crappy team (Orioles? Royals?), or as a Rob Stratton type (triple-A sideshow).

 

[Koya]

450 career hr ability would find him a job somewhere.

Add to that diluted pitching ( he played in a pitching era) and the right band box coupled with far more emphasis by teams on obp And he'd find work today with his skillset.

Edit to clarify re obp I think davey would have had to be a bot more selective as obp just did not seen to be a focus during his era

 

[John Zaleski]

Jack Cust should not have a job.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

And he'd find work today with his skillset.

Did he really have a skillset beyond his size?The dude was 6' 7", 230.He went up to the plate and swung as hard as he could at every pitch. That was his mentality for fifteen years.

 

[Eephus]

Kong's OBP is nowhere near Cust's. Cust is good for 100 BB/year which gets him on base at a .350 clip. His most fitting modern offensive comp is Chris B. Young (without the defense and baserunning of course).

Kingman's stats have to be viewed considering an era where teams averaged a half a run less than today. That's a huge difference. The conventional wisdom that offensive production picked up dramatically after the mounds were lowered in 1969 is wrong. Teams in the 70s and early 80s were only slightly more productive than in the 60s. 1967-8 are the real outliers.

The offensive context makes Kingman's OPS+ scores a lot more impressive than just the raw .236/.302/.478 career line. His BR comps are all pretty decent players:

1. Greg Vaughn (868)

2. Frank Howard (866)

3. Rocky Colavito (853)

4. Boog Powell (847)

5. Roy Sievers (845)

6. Andruw Jones (845)

7. George Foster (833)

8. Joe Adcock (830)

9. Norm Cash (829)

10. Willie Horton (824)

He was bad defensively, no doubt about it. I don't think the Giants did him any favors when he first came up, juggling him between 1B, 3B and the OF. In retrospect, he probably should have been put in LF and stayed there. He could run a little and had a plus arm (he was a college pitcher at USC). But the Giants had Mays, Bobby Bonds and Ken Henderson out there already (with a young George Foster knocking at the door).

By most accounts, he was also a major league ###hole. He'd probably fit right into some current MLB clubhouses.

I have no doubt he'd have a job today. Chicks (and GMs) still dig the long ball. He'd probably be an improvement over the current Giants outfield even at the age of 61.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Kong's OBP is nowhere near Cust's. Cust is good for 100 BB/year which gets him on base at a .350 clip.

That was my point in contrasting the two.Cust has bounced around for 10 years trying to land a full-time gig in the majors, despite having a far superior ability to get on base than Kingman.Kingman was a starter throughout his MLB tenure.

 

[Eephus]

Kong's OBP is nowhere near Cust's. Cust is good for 100 BB/year which gets him on base at a .350 clip.

That was my point in contrasting the two.Cust has bounced around for 10 years trying to land a full-time gig in the majors, despite having a far superior ability to get on base than Kingman.Kingman was a starter throughout his MLB tenure.

Cust's career isn't that unusual for three true outcome guys. Some GMs/Managers focus on what they can't do (contact skills, defense) rather than what they contribute. Cust, Russell Branyan, Josh Phelps, Gorman Thomas, Rob Deer, etc. all bounced around before finding a role. Even Ryan Howard didn't become a regular until 26.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

A pic of Kong's defensive prowess: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2...ong_Kingman.JPG