DenverBroncos
Footballguy
Does this guy have the potential to be a stud or is he a LB3 at best. I'm curious what fellow IDPers think?
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David Harris, LB, New York Jets (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter DenverBroncos
- Start date
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
I don't see Harris ever being a stud, especially playing in the Jets 3-4. He appears to be lacking in coverage skills.
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Rozelle
Moderator
I agree
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
I'm taking a long shoot... but Barnes could be a stud in a yr or 2
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
There are some intriguing rookie LBs to keep an eye on, such as Anthony Waters, Michael Okwo, and Quincy Black. I will not be surprised to see any or all of these three starting next year.bcr8f said:
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
As an ILB next to Vilma, Eric Barton posted exactly 100 total tackles and 4.5 sacks.
Not sure how many downs he was playing. But I do think it was somewhat limited compared to Hobson (101 tackles) and Vilma (114).
When he is starting, and has a bit of experience, equal type of numbers to Barton should be expected.
However, this could bode well for Harris if he is more of a natural/instinctive fit in the 3-4 system then Vilma or Barton.
Not sure how many downs he was playing. But I do think it was somewhat limited compared to Hobson (101 tackles) and Vilma (114).
When he is starting, and has a bit of experience, equal type of numbers to Barton should be expected.
However, this could bode well for Harris if he is more of a natural/instinctive fit in the 3-4 system then Vilma or Barton.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
There isn't a whole lot of meaningful data here yet, at least not enough to make a potentially meaningful conclusion like with the Phillips 3-4. But the LILB spot, where Harris will ultimately play, has shown above average potential at times.
In particular, Andra Davis had a top twelve season by FBG scoring in 2005 and was on pace for a similar finish last year before missing most of the final three games. Tedy Bruschi has also had some nice production from that spot in the past, but it's very difficult to draw any conclusions from the Pats defense given the true hybrid nature of that scheme.
Last season, Eric Barton had 47 solos from the LILB position in the first eight games before the Jets began giving time to Brad Kassell at that spot for a number of series per game. Tallying the Barton/Kassell solo tackle numbers (which may be a little presumptive, but worth considering anyway), the Jets LILB had 99 solos in 2006.
Others have hit on the potential rub on Harris being whether he'll be a regular participant in the nickel. I think some of the concern with his coverage ability is based on inexperience and a perceived lack of straight line speed. The speed issue was put to rest at the combine and Harris should be athletic enough to grow into a decent zone cover player. He won't need to be a man coverage player regularly in the current scheme. Regardless, Barton wasn't a primary contributor in the nickel last season either and he did fine.
So, stud? Probably not a clear low LB1 value at any point in the near future. But I think there's definite mid-LB2 upside to be had here. Selfishly, I'm hoping he earns the job on opening weekend so we'll have another data point to aid in a more accurate projection of the tackle numbers of the Belichick 3-4.
I've got him at 29 in my redraft rankings right now, but he could move in either direction after any number of camp questions are answered.
In particular, Andra Davis had a top twelve season by FBG scoring in 2005 and was on pace for a similar finish last year before missing most of the final three games. Tedy Bruschi has also had some nice production from that spot in the past, but it's very difficult to draw any conclusions from the Pats defense given the true hybrid nature of that scheme.
Last season, Eric Barton had 47 solos from the LILB position in the first eight games before the Jets began giving time to Brad Kassell at that spot for a number of series per game. Tallying the Barton/Kassell solo tackle numbers (which may be a little presumptive, but worth considering anyway), the Jets LILB had 99 solos in 2006.
Others have hit on the potential rub on Harris being whether he'll be a regular participant in the nickel. I think some of the concern with his coverage ability is based on inexperience and a perceived lack of straight line speed. The speed issue was put to rest at the combine and Harris should be athletic enough to grow into a decent zone cover player. He won't need to be a man coverage player regularly in the current scheme. Regardless, Barton wasn't a primary contributor in the nickel last season either and he did fine.
So, stud? Probably not a clear low LB1 value at any point in the near future. But I think there's definite mid-LB2 upside to be had here. Selfishly, I'm hoping he earns the job on opening weekend so we'll have another data point to aid in a more accurate projection of the tackle numbers of the Belichick 3-4.
I've got him at 29 in my redraft rankings right now, but he could move in either direction after any number of camp questions are answered.
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Rovers
Footballguy
I'll be attending several TC practices this year once again, and will post my initial TC impressions. I tend to avoid opening day and weekends due to crowd volume, but I expect to be there this coming Monday. I'll post my observations on Tuesday most likely. I will say this much... Harris better be good, or trading up to get him and not using a first day pick for an offensive lineman may be the first big screw up of the Tannenbaum/Mangini era. I really haven't seen Harris play, so I am interested to see how both he and Revis look out there on Monday.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
No, I don't. This LB class is mediocre to be kind. But it's all we have to work with. I think Durant should be in this conversation right behind the big 3 with Harris.I was outspoken before the draft about Nicholas, and now he seems to have a good shot at tasty job for IDP production.I see Waters getting some love. I'll defer to Tom Casale who does a great job covering the draft for the Pats. Waters is awful. His injury probably did more to enhance his draft status than a year of play would have. Casale can be brutal, but when he is, he is generally right. I like Harris as the talent in this class goes. He was the leader of a really solid defense, and while a few other players got more media attention, I think Harris translates best to the NFL. Annually for three years I'm tracking my hypothesis that supposes the college game has become a true farm system (read real NFL systems in place everywhere), and a high percentage of rookies are going to be much the same in the NFL as they are in college (sooner than later, but eventually or not always).bcr8f said:
So, that thinking makes HB Blades and Buster Davis real interesting. Clint Session is currently way under the radar and I have a gut feeling he's going to have an impact.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
This has been my outsider's impression as well. I'd like to hear a whole lot more about this when you get the time and inclination. I don't know enough about the college careers of these guys to make any determination. And I couldn't tell you which teams run which NFLish schemes.I'd love to see a uber CC post about this.Annually for three years I'm tracking my hypothesis that supposes the college game has become a true farm system (read real NFL systems in place everywhere), and a high percentage of rookies are going to be much the same in the NFL as they are in college (sooner than later, but eventually or not always).
So, that thinking makes HB Blades and Buster Davis real interesting.
Clint Session is currently way under the radar and I have a gut feeling he's going to have an impact.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Peak
Footballguy
I like the sound of this clip. I picked Harris up in my league's rookie draft last month. While he may not be in the big 3 tier, I still think he will have a good showing in the 3-4 defense.
