***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (1 Viewer)

[snitwitch]

How did he look in pass pro this weekend?

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

How did he look in pass pro this weekend?

He was definitely more aggressive, but two plays I saw him going after blitzers the play actually went away from his side so hard to tell how successful he was. There were no glaring misses I think.

 

[Khy]

How did he look in pass pro this weekend?

I thought he looked rather good it was my biggest take away from the game for him as simply a Giants fan. He was actually stepping up and putting himself in the way of the defender and Eli and taking the hit. Some people will claim he blew a pass prot that caused Eli to take a sack but on that play two different defenders got past the o-line and he just picked one. Didn't matter which one he grabbed there was nothing he could have done.

 

[RushHour]

If Wilson's psyche is so fragile that Coughlin shattered it, he will never be a success on this team. Coughlin is 100 times gentler than he used to be, he is not going to turn into **** Vermeil for David Wilson. Coughlin is the Giants coach, if Wilson cannot mentally handle that he is not going to be a successful player for the Giants

But that was one of the concerns about Wilson, his being emotional and high strung. I think it's obvious Wilson was "thinking" too much. There was one run they played in slo-mo and as he passed through the line you could see him start to drop one hand away from the ball when he found some space and then he immediately put it back on the ball. He's literally running not to fumble right now and it's occupying his thinking.

For those saying the fumbling issue isn't why he isn't playing, let's consider something. It's crazy for Coughlin to hammer him on turnovers when the QB is turning the ball over every other series, but that's what's happening. And it doesn't make sense for them to use Wilson on kick-off returns if they are so concerned about it. But yet you read how Wilson is acting, and he's acting like a guy that thinks not fumbling is THE most important thing in his universe right now. So why would he think that and act that way unless someone has made him think that not fumbling IS the most important thing in his universe right now. Do we really think Wilson is in the dark about why he isn't playing more? So what do his actions tell us?

If Coughlin wasn't really as worried about Wilson's fumbles, as some claim, and Coughlin wanted to get him touches yesterday, there were several of those Jacobs touches that could have gone to Wilson because they didn't put Eli at risk and they weren't short yardage situations. The commentators even noticed that when Jacobs was getting carries. But they didn't go to Wilson. I think they did it on purpose and it wasn't due to game situations. It's Coughlin trying to teach Wilson a lesson. I suspect he's trying to use him enough so as to not make him lose hope while at the same time holding him back enough to motivate improvement.

That does give me hope because it means that Coughlin thinks Wilson is worth grooming. But for the life of me I just wonder if Coughlin is the guy to do it. All the talk about treating every player the same is BS coachspeak which many of them will admit in a candid moment. So it makes me wonder if Coughlin is the genius that is actually making Wilson a better player or simply the fool that is incapable of managing certain types of players. At 0-2 that's a strategy that quickly gets second guessed.

This is where the disconnect is - If coughlin wanted him to get touches yesterday, he would have gotten more touches.

He is not sitting him "to teach him a lesson" - he did not sit him in week 1 to "teach him a lesson" either. He is not playing in a given situation because the Giants think they have better alternatives for a given situation.

Jacobs had 7 carries - 4 in the first half. He had 3 in the second half - all were goal line carries - those are very specifically game situations where Wilson is not getting the ball. So, when you say Jacobs was stealing carries from Wilson, what exactly do you mean?

In the second half, the Giants ran the ball 9 times. 4 were goal line carries that went to Jacobs (3) and Scott (1). Wilson got 1 carry in the 3rd quarter, and then Scott got the remaining 4 carries in the 4th quarter when the Giants were in their hurry-up offense. Scott is the 3rd down back, and, by extension, the back who will play in the hurry up offense. So the carries in the second half were purely dictated by game situation - not the nebulous "I-am-Tom-Coughlin-I-will-teach-this-young-rb-a-lesson-instead-of-trying-to-win-the-game".

Look, I get the frustration from a fantasy player who thought Wilson was going to be the great sleeper pick of 2013. But, when you take the blinders off, you have to understand that real men are playing and coaching this game to win in real life, not in fantasy life. Coughlin, and Gilbride, are making decisions to win games. They are not out there trying to teach lessons, at the expense of winning. Last week Wilson got benched because the Giants could not trust him with the ball - not to teach him a lesson. This week, they wanted to rotate him with Jacobs early, probably to get Jacobs some quick playing time. Jacobs is the short-yardage back, Scott is the third-down back. Wilson still will get his carries in other game situations. Its not anymore complicated than that.

The thing is though that they aren't winning with what their doing. Now, it debatable whether playing Wilson more would make any difference right now since this team has a bunch of deficiencies, but IMO it couldn't hurt. And really this is the best hope for Wilson owners - they keep losing games with Jacobs and Scott giving them nothing in the running game, and they finally realise they might need to do something different.

I agree that Coughlin might not be in the "teaching a lesson" mode with Wilson right now and that he just believes the other guys are better for the team in certain situations, but it's the inconsistency of all this that is maddening. Signs were good in the offseason that Wilson had improved in the areas he needed to, and that the coaching staff trusted him to have a big share of the workload this year, whether or not Andre Brown was prominently involved. They didn't sign any other backs and they gave Wilson plenty of value looks in the offseason, everyone was saying positive things etc. If he had built up some level of trust, and Coughlin says openly that he regrets how he handled Wilson last year, then it doesn't make sense to react the way that they did after that first game. No one can argue that first game wasn't disastrous, but it's one game and you have to move on. There's a bigger picture here and the team has a first round pick investment in this guy - it's on this coaching staff to develop that talent. Everyone expected Wilson to get a minimum of 50% of the carries, even with Brown there, and now, because of one bad game, he's getting a much lower share of that, while competing with obviously worse backs in Scott and Jacobs (who is basically washed up)? I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense to me.

 

[drake_ovo]

he is horrible

 

[LittleLarry]

This thread should be immediately locked.... and all evidence of it ever existing burned.

BURNED

 

[Sinn Fein]

This is where the disconnect is - If coughlin wanted him to get touches yesterday, he would have gotten more touches.


He is not sitting him "to teach him a lesson" - he did not sit him in week 1 to "teach him a lesson" either. He is not playing in a given situation because the Giants think they have better alternatives for a given situation.

Jacobs had 7 carries - 4 in the first half. He had 3 in the second half - all were goal line carries - those are very specifically game situations where Wilson is not getting the ball. So, when you say Jacobs was stealing carries from Wilson, what exactly do you mean?

In the second half, the Giants ran the ball 9 times. 4 were goal line carries that went to Jacobs (3) and Scott (1). Wilson got 1 carry in the 3rd quarter, and then Scott got the remaining 4 carries in the 4th quarter when the Giants were in their hurry-up offense. Scott is the 3rd down back, and, by extension, the back who will play in the hurry up offense. So the carries in the second half were purely dictated by game situation - not the nebulous "I-am-Tom-Coughlin-I-will-teach-this-young-rb-a-lesson-instead-of-trying-to-win-the-game".

Look, I get the frustration from a fantasy player who thought Wilson was going to be the great sleeper pick of 2013. But, when you take the blinders off, you have to understand that real men are playing and coaching this game to win in real life, not in fantasy life. Coughlin, and Gilbride, are making decisions to win games. They are not out there trying to teach lessons, at the expense of winning. Last week Wilson got benched because the Giants could not trust him with the ball - not to teach him a lesson. This week, they wanted to rotate him with Jacobs early, probably to get Jacobs some quick playing time. Jacobs is the short-yardage back, Scott is the third-down back. Wilson still will get his carries in other game situations. Its not anymore complicated than that.

The thing is though that they aren't winning with what their doing. Now, it debatable whether playing Wilson more would make any difference right now since this team has a bunch of deficiencies, but IMO it couldn't hurt. And really this is the best hope for Wilson owners - they keep losing games with Jacobs and Scott giving them nothing in the running game, and they finally realise they might need to do something different.

I agree that Coughlin might not be in the "teaching a lesson" mode with Wilson right now and that he just believes the other guys are better for the team in certain situations, but it's the inconsistency of all this that is maddening. Signs were good in the offseason that Wilson had improved in the areas he needed to, and that the coaching staff trusted him to have a big share of the workload this year, whether or not Andre Brown was prominently involved. They didn't sign any other backs and they gave Wilson plenty of value looks in the offseason, everyone was saying positive things etc. If he had built up some level of trust, and Coughlin says openly that he regrets how he handled Wilson last year, then it doesn't make sense to react the way that they did after that first game. No one can argue that first game wasn't disastrous, but it's one game and you have to move on. There's a bigger picture here and the team has a first round pick investment in this guy - it's on this coaching staff to develop that talent. Everyone expected Wilson to get a minimum of 50% of the carries, even with Brown there, and now, because of one bad game, he's getting a much lower share of that, while competing with obviously worse backs in Scott and Jacobs (who is basically washed up)? I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense to me.

Ok, I'll ask you the same thing I asked DannyBoy - look back at the Denver game, and tell me where did Wilson lose carries that you thought he should have had?

1. He is not the short-yargade back, and has not shown signs that he is capable of being a short-yardage back.

2. He is not the 3rd-down back, and has not shown the Giants that he is capable of being the 3rd down back.

I'll grant you that jacobs picked up a couple of carries in the first half that could have gone to Wilson. My take is that the Giants wanted Jacobs to get a few touches in a live game early, rather than bring him in cold for his first action in short yardage. But other than those carries - Wilson got the expected number of carries given the game situation. Had the game been closer in the second half, or had the Giants been winning, I have no doubt that he would have seen more carries in the second half. But, as I outlined above, every carry in the 2nd half was driven by game circumstances. If you are a Wilsonite - that is where you take solace. He was a victim of circumstances, not a victim of Coughlin (or really Gilbride).

 

[Gottabesweet]

Really missed on him passed on Sproles to take him at 3.9

 

[RushHour]

This is where the disconnect is - If coughlin wanted him to get touches yesterday, he would have gotten more touches.


He is not sitting him "to teach him a lesson" - he did not sit him in week 1 to "teach him a lesson" either. He is not playing in a given situation because the Giants think they have better alternatives for a given situation.

Jacobs had 7 carries - 4 in the first half. He had 3 in the second half - all were goal line carries - those are very specifically game situations where Wilson is not getting the ball. So, when you say Jacobs was stealing carries from Wilson, what exactly do you mean?

In the second half, the Giants ran the ball 9 times. 4 were goal line carries that went to Jacobs (3) and Scott (1). Wilson got 1 carry in the 3rd quarter, and then Scott got the remaining 4 carries in the 4th quarter when the Giants were in their hurry-up offense. Scott is the 3rd down back, and, by extension, the back who will play in the hurry up offense. So the carries in the second half were purely dictated by game situation - not the nebulous "I-am-Tom-Coughlin-I-will-teach-this-young-rb-a-lesson-instead-of-trying-to-win-the-game".

Look, I get the frustration from a fantasy player who thought Wilson was going to be the great sleeper pick of 2013. But, when you take the blinders off, you have to understand that real men are playing and coaching this game to win in real life, not in fantasy life. Coughlin, and Gilbride, are making decisions to win games. They are not out there trying to teach lessons, at the expense of winning. Last week Wilson got benched because the Giants could not trust him with the ball - not to teach him a lesson. This week, they wanted to rotate him with Jacobs early, probably to get Jacobs some quick playing time. Jacobs is the short-yardage back, Scott is the third-down back. Wilson still will get his carries in other game situations. Its not anymore complicated than that.

The thing is though that they aren't winning with what their doing. Now, it debatable whether playing Wilson more would make any difference right now since this team has a bunch of deficiencies, but IMO it couldn't hurt. And really this is the best hope for Wilson owners - they keep losing games with Jacobs and Scott giving them nothing in the running game, and they finally realise they might need to do something different.

I agree that Coughlin might not be in the "teaching a lesson" mode with Wilson right now and that he just believes the other guys are better for the team in certain situations, but it's the inconsistency of all this that is maddening. Signs were good in the offseason that Wilson had improved in the areas he needed to, and that the coaching staff trusted him to have a big share of the workload this year, whether or not Andre Brown was prominently involved. They didn't sign any other backs and they gave Wilson plenty of value looks in the offseason, everyone was saying positive things etc. If he had built up some level of trust, and Coughlin says openly that he regrets how he handled Wilson last year, then it doesn't make sense to react the way that they did after that first game. No one can argue that first game wasn't disastrous, but it's one game and you have to move on. There's a bigger picture here and the team has a first round pick investment in this guy - it's on this coaching staff to develop that talent. Everyone expected Wilson to get a minimum of 50% of the carries, even with Brown there, and now, because of one bad game, he's getting a much lower share of that, while competing with obviously worse backs in Scott and Jacobs (who is basically washed up)? I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense to me.

Ok, I'll ask you the same thing I asked DannyBoy - look back at the Denver game, and tell me where did Wilson lose carries that you thought he should have had?

1. He is not the short-yargade back, and has not shown signs that he is capable of being a short-yardage back.

2. He is not the 3rd-down back, and has not shown the Giants that he is capable of being the 3rd down back.

I'll grant you that jacobs picked up a couple of carries in the first half that could have gone to Wilson. My take is that the Giants wanted Jacobs to get a few touches in a live game early, rather than bring him in cold for his first action in short yardage. But other than those carries - Wilson got the expected number of carries given the game situation. Had the game been closer in the second half, or had the Giants been winning, I have no doubt that he would have seen more carries in the second half. But, as I outlined above, every carry in the 2nd half was driven by game circumstances. If you are a Wilsonite - that is where you take solace. He was a victim of circumstances, not a victim of Coughlin (or really Gilbride).

Yeah I definitely see that argument and you could be right. I suppose I expected Jacobs might get only a couple of carries in the game, but it seemed like he was in for much more than that. I also don't recall Wilson being in at all in the second half or, if he was, only for a couple of snaps. Scott was in on third downs, but it seemed like he was in most of the time actually. If Wilson was in at any point, I don't remember him getting a carry. Sure, don't play Wilson on third downs if you don't trust him, but you could run a couple of plays on early downs for him and try to get him in space (remember the game was still close into the third quarter - they didn't need to be in full catch up/pass mode). I also think that if you need to make up points, it might make sense to have the one RB on your roster with the potential to break a big run, in the game at some point, but maybe that's just me. Once it got into the 4th quarter and they were down by 20 or whatever, then yeah, I agree with you.

As for him not showing signs of being a capable short yardage back, I don't know how we can assess that, given that he hasn't ben given the opportunity. He was certainly as good, if not better, than Andre Brown in short yardage situations in the preseason. But it does seem like the Giants have this old school mentality of thinking that just because a guy like Jacobs is huge, he'll be an effective short yardage and GL back. The fact is he wasn't very good yesterday and got gifted that TD after a bunch of penalties. I have no reason to think Wilson couldn't do a better job than Jacobs, if given the opportunity.

 

[msudaisy26]

he is horrible

Good analysis man... do you host a Sunday morning NFL talk show I can watch or something to get more of these interesting and invigorating breakdowns of skill?

That is Cris Carter you are talking to. He has forgotten more about football then you will ever know!!!

 

[Bob Magaw]

I'll make different buy/sells:

BUYING

David Wilson - RB - NYG: All offseason the question has been only about his opportunity. The only thing everyone agreed on with Wilson was that if given bell-cow work he had all the talent to succeed. Nobody thought he would get the bell-cow work this season with Brown around. With Brown down now and bell-cow work all but guaranteed for most of the season. He'll finish Top 5.

I rest my case.

Fair enough...

Although if we're being honest.

With the way the first two weeks have gone for RBs, he could still EASILY finish Top 5. Right now the #1 RB is Shady and #5 is Reggie Bush with 260 total yards and a single TD. One or two big games and Wilson is immediately shoved into the RB1 mix again. Joique Bell, Knowshon and McFadden are all currently Top 10 RBs. I think past McCoy, Charles, Lynch and Peterson this top 10 is a wide open ball game still through Week 2.

Not at all saying I still think he's anything close to a good bet let alone a lock for Top 5. But really, if he puts up 100yds and 2 TDs this week all of a sudden he's a Top 15 back. Does it again in Week 4? He's a Top 5-6 back. That's how this seasons been so far. Not saying he will just saying realistically it's a perfectly reasonable option.

it may not be realistic or perfectly reasonable based on usage, it isn't just about his talent...

his usage needs to change to even be a viable starter, let alone top 5...

ask yourself, is coughlin stubborn enough and does he have enough of a blind spot to continue misusing wilson a while longer...

so far, the answer to that is yes...

wilson's destiny or fate was taken away from his control (dictated solely by his ability) by his mistakes week one...

at this point, nobody knows how coughlin will handle the distribution the rest of the way... making inferences based on interviews hasn't helped much... he has handled things differently with different RBs at different times, so history isn't very useful in this case, either (other than to despair of discovering a pattern or decoding key)...

wilson won't necessarily even get a chance to prove himself and earn back trust with a larger role, unless coughlin changes his mind... but what his state of mind is on this, is pretty much inscrutable to us...

no longer just a question of talent, continued hope for wilson has effectively become a gamble coughlin softens up on his stubbornness...

* this is partly a catch 22... the bigger a hard case coughlin is, less opportunity wilson gets, less chance he gets to prove himself, hard to get in a rhythm, less opps for breakaway long runs and scores, sub-optimal for his confidence, etc...

 

[netnalp]

Former Giants center Shaun O'Hara's analysis: http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/Shaun-O-Hara/article-1/Shaun-OHara-Plays-that-Changed-the-Game-/f4fb47ce-0c11-41f7-9238-bb385b5bc027

SMALL MISTAKES LED TO BIG PROBLEMS
When you’re going to throw the ball that many times, there are going to be bad plays. There are going to be interceptions. Now a couple of them looked like Eli Manning was trying to throw the ball away, and then on the last interception I think he was just forcing it, feeling like, “I have to do this all by myself.” You have to run the football a little bit more. I understand if you’re not getting great yards per carry, but just the presence of the run game, I think, takes the pressure off of Eli so he doesn’t have to feel like he’s doing it all by himself.

HOW TO IMPROVE THE RUN GAME
I think, number one, you can’t judge your running game based on production in the first and second quarter. I think you have to be very patient with it. A lot of times you only get two or three yards per carry in the first half, and then the big run comes in the third or fourth quarter as the offensive line gets better at picking up the blitzes and the way the defense is reacting to them. That goes for the running backs, too, because a lot of it is vision for them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I take from O'Hara is that you can't accurately judge Wilson's use in this offense based on the first half since they abandoned the run as the game went on. So Wilson missed out on the time of the game when the running game starts to click for most teams.

In the video he points out that Wilson does well with his pass blocking responsibility in the plays he goes over.

 

[Khy]

Former Giants center Shaun O'Hara's analysis: http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/Shaun-O-Hara/article-1/Shaun-OHara-Plays-that-Changed-the-Game-/f4fb47ce-0c11-41f7-9238-bb385b5bc027

SMALL MISTAKES LED TO BIG PROBLEMS

When you’re going to throw the ball that many times, there are going to be bad plays. There are going to be interceptions. Now a couple of them looked like Eli Manning was trying to throw the ball away, and then on the last interception I think he was just forcing it, feeling like, “I have to do this all by myself.” You have to run the football a little bit more. I understand if you’re not getting great yards per carry, but just the presence of the run game, I think, takes the pressure off of Eli so he doesn’t have to feel like he’s doing it all by himself.

HOW TO IMPROVE THE RUN GAME

I think, number one, you can’t judge your running game based on production in the first and second quarter. I think you have to be very patient with it. A lot of times you only get two or three yards per carry in the first half, and then the big run comes in the third or fourth quarter as the offensive line gets better at picking up the blitzes and the way the defense is reacting to them. That goes for the running backs, too, because a lot of it is vision for them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I take from O'Hara is that you can't accurately judge Wilson's use in this offense based on the first half since they abandoned the run as the game went on. So Wilson missed out on the time of the game when the running game starts to click for most teams.

Well yeah, I don't think you can find someone who watched the game who won't say they abandoned the run WAY to early. They ran the ball 5... FIVE times in the 2nd half, I'm not counting the like 6 carries Scott and Jacobs split on the 1yd line to get into the end zone. It was a 10-9 game at half... this was a game that was 100% winnable and in no way out of their hands at the start of the half. They get the ball 10-9 and come out and go Pass-Pass-Pass-Punt. Peyton drives down and scores it's 17-9 not a big deal. They come out and go PASS-PASS-RUN-PASS-PASS-Goal Line Run TD. Broncos march down again and it's 24-16. They come out and go pass-passINT. Like they just abandoned the run completely. Made no sense to me, how do you not come out at the half and go first play run? Blows my mind.

 

[msudaisy26]

Former Giants center Shaun O'Hara's analysis: http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/Shaun-O-Hara/article-1/Shaun-OHara-Plays-that-Changed-the-Game-/f4fb47ce-0c11-41f7-9238-bb385b5bc027

SMALL MISTAKES LED TO BIG PROBLEMS

When you’re going to throw the ball that many times, there are going to be bad plays. There are going to be interceptions. Now a couple of them looked like Eli Manning was trying to throw the ball away, and then on the last interception I think he was just forcing it, feeling like, “I have to do this all by myself.” You have to run the football a little bit more. I understand if you’re not getting great yards per carry, but just the presence of the run game, I think, takes the pressure off of Eli so he doesn’t have to feel like he’s doing it all by himself.

HOW TO IMPROVE THE RUN GAME

I think, number one, you can’t judge your running game based on production in the first and second quarter. I think you have to be very patient with it. A lot of times you only get two or three yards per carry in the first half, and then the big run comes in the third or fourth quarter as the offensive line gets better at picking up the blitzes and the way the defense is reacting to them. That goes for the running backs, too, because a lot of it is vision for them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I take from O'Hara is that you can't accurately judge Wilson's use in this offense based on the first half since they abandoned the run as the game went on. So Wilson missed out on the time of the game when the running game starts to click for most teams.

Well yeah, I don't think you can find someone who watched the game who won't say they abandoned the run WAY to early. They ran the ball 5... FIVE times in the 2nd half, I'm not counting the like 6 carries Scott and Jacobs split on the 1yd line to get into the end zone. It was a 10-9 game at half... this was a game that was 100% winnable and in no way out of their hands at the start of the half. They get the ball 10-9 and come out and go Pass-Pass-Pass-Punt. Peyton drives down and scores it's 17-9 not a big deal. They come out and go PASS-PASS-RUN-PASS-PASS-Goal Line Run TD. Broncos march down again and it's 24-16. They come out and go pass-passINT. Like they just abandoned the run completely. Made no sense to me, how do you not come out at the half and go first play run? Blows my mind.

How dare you question Coughlin and his staff. They have won 2 super bowls in the last 6 years and are beyond reproach!

 

[T with T]

omg please Cough Lin isn't that great buddy, he is an avg coach at best. His ways are being shown and exposed as idiocracy.

 

[msudaisy26]

omg please Cough Lin isn't that great buddy, he is an avg coach at best. His ways are being shown and exposed as idiocracy.

I guess you missed a lot of this thread. I was being sarcastic

 

[Statorama]

Buy low

 

[netnalp]

http://www.bigblueview.com/2013/9/16/4736912/run-giants-run-why-cant-they-do-it

Run Giants, run! Why can't they do it?

We have established that the New York Giants were miserable running the ball Sunday vs. the Denver Broncos, with 19 carries for 23 yards. Let's break it down play-by-play with the benefit of NFL.com's 'Game Pass."

The Plays

10:04 1st quarter. 1st-and-10, Denver 29-yard line. David Wilson, 5-yard gainWilson takes a run off right guard and cuts back to the left side. Looks like nice work here by David Baas and Kevin Boothe.

9:30 1st quarter. 2nd-and-5, Denver 24-yard line
Brandon Jacobs, 5-yard gain

Justin Pugh seals the right side and Jacobs slides off his block for a first down. At this point, two runs for 10 yards. That means the Giants ran 17 times for 13 yards the remainder of the game.

8:37 1st quarter. 1st-and-10, Denver 19-yard line
David Wilson, 1-yard gain

The first shotgun draw of the day, run to the right from a three-wide set. Right tackle Justin Pugh appears to handle his man, but Chris Snee looks beaten to the inside. The bigger problem? Both Victor Cruz, in the slot, and Hakeem Nicks don't even touch their defenders, allowing them to step inside and give Wilson no place to run.

4:40 1st quarter. 1st-and-10, New York 16-yard line
David Wilson, 3-yard loss

Denver defensive end Robert Ayers makes an inside move on rookie Justin Pugh, who barely gets a hand on him.

13:35 2nd quarter, 1st-and-10, New York 45-yard line

Center David Baas completely whiffs on Denver defensive tackle Kevin Vickerson, who demolishes Wilson at just about the instant he takes the handoff on a run to the right side.

1:13 1st quarter, 2nd-and-10, New York 11-yard line
Brandon Jacobs, 3-yard loss

Denver defensive end Robert Ayers barrels inside of rookie right tackle Justin Pugh, who lunges to the outside and barely gets a hand on him. Jacobs gets the Wilson treatment, possibly wishing he was still out of the league after Ayers slammed into him as soon as he took the handoff.

13:35, 2nd quarter. 1st-and-10, New York 45-yard line
Brandon Jacobs, 2-yard gain

Jacobs is in a single back set. This is a run to the left side with right guard Chris Snee pulling to lead the way. It appears to be well-blocked, except Snee missed Denver linebacker Danny Trevathan right in the hole. With a block from Snee, this play might have gone for a decent gain.

9:24 2nd quarter, 1st-and-10, Denver 43-yard line
Brandon Jacobs, 2-yard loss

Denver is coming on a run blitz here. I don't even know which linemen to blame on this one. what you can clearly see is that by the time Jacobs gets the ball 4 yards deep in the backfield there are already three Broncos defenders who have beaten blocks, are in the backfield and have a clear path to the helpless running back.

6:05, 2nd quarter. 1st-and-10, New York 40-yard line
David Wilson, 6-yard gain

A shotgun draw that nearly went to the house. Chris Snee and David Baas open a huge hole for Wilson. Denver linebacker Shaun Phillips gets off a Pugh block just in time to dive and trip Wilson by the ankle. Even tight end Brandon Myers did a decent job sealing a linebacker at the second level here.

4:04 2nd quarter, 1st-and-10, Denver 31-yard line
David Wilson, 2-yard gain

Another shotgun draw. This play was a mess. Pugh appears beaten at the line of scrimmage, though he may not have been the only one. Wilson twists and fights and nearly breaks away, doing a great job to get anything positive from this play.

3:18 2nd quarter. 2nd-and-8, Denver 29-yard line
David Wilson, 6-yard gain

Once again an inside handoff to Wilson from the gun. This time Pugh, Snee, Baas and a pulling Boothe spring Wilson into the secondary. Unfortunately, Myers and Cruz can't hold their blocks long enough for Wilson to turn this one into a big play.

7:34 3rd quarter. 1st-and-10, Denver 31-yard line
David Wilson, no gain

Yes, the Giants went more than halfway into the third quarter without having a running play. This was a run up the middle for Wilson, almost a pistol-type play. Not sure if David Baas or Kevin Boothe was the culprit here, Denver defensive tackle Terrance Knighton was in the backfield to haul Wilson down. Hakeem Nicks also seemed to miss a block on the outside.

5:09, 3rd quarter. 1st-and-goal, Denver 4-yard line
Brandon Jacobs, 1-yard gain

This was a massive pile of humanity straight up the middle. No way to really see who did what in terms of blocking, but there wasn't anyplace for Jacobs to go.

4:22, 3rd quarter. 2nd-and-goal, Denver 3-yard line
Da'Rel Scott, 1-yard gain

Yes, the shotgun draw. Again, difficult to tell who missed a block but Travathan gets to Scott untouched.

3:35, 3rd quarter. 1st-and-gosl, Denver 1-yard line (following penalty)
Brandon Jacobs, no gain

Boothe misses a cut block on Knighton, who makes the play. The Giants catch a break when Knighton is flagged for taunting.

3:18, 3rd quarter. 1st-and-goal, Denver 1-yard line (following another penalty) Brandon Jacobs, 1-yard touchdown run

The offensive line finally wins a battle at the line of scrimmage. Boothe, Snee and Pugh all clearly push their men into the end zone as Jacobs plows up the middle for a score. Henry Hynoski also gets a good lead block.

11:17, 4th quarter. 1st-and-10, New York 32-yard line Da'Rel Scott, 1-yard loss

By this time the Giants are in shotgun on every play, as they have been most of the second half. The score is 31-16 Denver at this stage. So, variations of the shotgun draw are about all they have in their running arsenal. David Baas appears to whiff on Denver defensive tackle Malik Jackson, who makes the play in the backfield.

8:33, 4th quarter. 2nd-and-1, Denver 47-yard line Da'Rel Scott, 2-yard gain

You know the play call. Scott gets the first down, but Pascoe could not handle Ayers on the outside or this play could have gone for bigger yardage.

5:06, 4th quarter. 1st-and-10, New York 44-yard line Da'Rel Scott, 4-yard gain

Once again Scott could have had a bigger gain, but a Giants' blocker couldn't sustain his block. This time it looked like Kevin Boothe who could not keep control of Robert Ayers, allowing him to make the play.

2:00, 4th quarter. 1st-and-10, New York 45-yard line Da'Rel Scott, 4-yard loss A jailbreak in the backfield on the Giants' final rushing play of the game.

Observations

You can kill Kevin Gilbride for the plethora of shotgun runs if you want. Really, though, the Giants had little choice in the second half but to go shotgun -- especially when the fell behind by 15 points. If you look at each of those runs there were chances for success, and missed blocks or assignment errors that caused the plays to break down.

In each case I have pointed out what I think I see. In fairness to the linemen, what I can't tell is when there were missed assignments. In those instances it may look like a player missed a block when, in truth, someone else's man was running by him. I have done the best I can to accurately portray who missed what blocks, though it wouldn't surprise me if I have identified the wrong culprit in a few cases.

Veteran offensive lineman Chris Snee said the effort in the running game simply "wasn't good enough." Snee was really distressed by the inability to get run plays blocked in the second half, when the Broncos were playing a softer, pass-oriented defense.

"Obviously we're not doing something right," said Kevin Boothe. "We gotta figure it out because you can't be one-dimensional in this league."

The hardest part of figuring it out is that it is impossible to blame one player's struggles or to say the backs are missing holes. There aren't holes on any sort of consistent basis, and the breakdowns seem to come from a different place on each play.

Maybe things will improve as Hynoski gets sharper, Jacobs gets into better shape, Baas' health improves and the line gets more reps together. It is apparent, though, that this won't be an easy fix.

 

[msudaisy26]

Good stuff there, sounds like no one is doing much of any blocking

 

[Rick James]

Are Cruz and Nicks known to be poor blockers?

 

[netnalp]

Good stuff there, sounds like no one is doing much of any blocking

Cruz and Nicks not attending OTAs and being out for parts of camp, along with the time linemen have been out seem to have had an impact. Blockers seem to be playing as individuals rather than working as a cohesive unit.

 

[netnalp]

Are Cruz and Nicks known to be poor blockers?

I don't recall them being knocked for it.

Both missed OTAs and time in camp. Nicks is playing for a contract, maybe he's been taking some blocking plays off?

 

[netnalp]

Beat writer Ed Valentine, in response to a comment claiming Coughlin has benched Wilson this year.

- The guy STARTED (Wilson). He played until it became obvious the giants had to pass on every down. The third down back is now Scott’s role, so he was in the game for all of that.

 

[T with T]

omg please Cough Lin isn't that great buddy, he is an avg coach at best. His ways are being shown and exposed as idiocracy.

I guess you missed a lot of this thread. I was being sarcastic

NO Have been posting in this thread from start, can't keep track of everyone, but glad to see that.

 

[2ksports]

This situation screams buy low. Look at his value (not much), and look at his potential (Top 10 finish).

His combination of strength, speed, and vision is unmatched by everyone in NY, including Andre Brown. He was named the starter because the coaching staff knows this. Otherwise, Brown would have been named starter.

He looks like a jaded but supremely talented RB and if he can overcome the fumbling and pass protection, which he can, you will be way too late. At times like this, when his value is at its lowest, is when you make the move.

Don't even hesitate, it's a gamble well worth making.

 

[Rick James]

Beat writer Ed Valentine, in response to a comment claiming Coughlin has benched Wilson this year.

- The guy STARTED (Wilson). He played until it became obvious the giants had to pass on every down. The third down back is now Scotts role, so he was in the game for all of that.

Scott was almost cut three weeks ago. Now they want him in the field every time Eli throws the ball. There goes Wilson's value fellas.

 

[TwinTurbo]

It was obvious when the Giants released Bradshaw, that it was because they planned to make Wilson the lead back. That's a long term plan that shouldn't be scrapped after one bad game. Otherwise it should have never been the plan.

If Wilson really does lack the talent to be an RB1, then the Giants look like fools for releasing Bradshaw. If he is a RB1, then Coughlin is a fool for not finding ways to use him more. Either way grandpa Coughlin looks like a fool. Meanwhile Giants fans now get to watch Jacobs fall down for 1 yard and defenses ignore all of Eli's play action fakes.

 

[RushHour]

This situation screams buy low. Look at his value (not much), and look at his potential (Top 10 finish).

His combination of strength, speed, and vision is unmatched by everyone in NY, including Andre Brown. He was named the starter because the coaching staff knows this. Otherwise, Brown would have been named starter.

He looks like a jaded but supremely talented RB and if he can overcome the fumbling and pass protection, which he can, you will be way too late. At times like this, when his value is at its lowest, is when you make the move.

Don't even hesitate, it's a gamble well worth making.

Not sure why Wilson owners would give up on him at this point, considering they invested a decent draft pick in him. Why would you sell him for a bench player or something equivalent to what you could get off the waiver wire when you haven't gotten any production out of him yet and you will likely have owned him for his worst stretch, while a new owner gets any future benefits (if they are any)? You might consider selling for a decent offer that included a solid starter, but I don't see many people offering that right now.

This is why I always find it funny when people say they are going to buy low on someone when they are stinking it up and saying "it's worth the risk". As if it's just a matter of going to the Wilson owner and getting Wilson for some mediocre roster filler you don't want. Of course there's no risk in that - all the risk is with the Wilson owner in selling low. So it's probably better sometimes for the value to not be quite at rock bottom before trying to buy low.

 

[2ksports]

You should be trying to acquire him by trading starters, not bench players. That way, the offer cannot be refused. If you are trading a bench player, there is no risk now is there?

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

62 pages. What can be said that hasn't? Amazing.

 

[Nucker101]

62 pages. What can be said that hasn't? Amazing.

Wilson sucks.

Coughlin sucks.

Everyone's stupid!

ETA something valuable:

David Wilson was traded for Knowshon Moreno in my redraft PPR league tonight. It might just be me, but I like the Moreno side by a decent margin.

 

[Warrior]

This situation screams buy low. Look at his value (not much), and look at his potential (Top 10 finish).

His combination of strength, speed, and vision is unmatched by everyone in NY, including Andre Brown. He was named the starter because the coaching staff knows this. Otherwise, Brown would have been named starter.

He looks like a jaded but supremely talented RB and if he can overcome the fumbling and pass protection, which he can, you will be way too late. At times like this, when his value is at its lowest, is when you make the move.

Don't even hesitate, it's a gamble well worth making.

You make it sound like top 10 finish is as likely as him being worthless. I assure you that him being worthless has a much higher % chance of happening.

50% chance he's un-startable for the rest of the season. 49% chance he's bad, but can be used as a flex play now and then. 1% chance of that top 10 finish you're talking about.

Don't throw good money after bad, this guy is toast.

 

[EagleHawk]

62 pages. What can be said that hasn't? Amazing.

Wilson sucks.

Coughlin sucks.

Everyone's stupid!

ETA something valuable:

David Wilson was traded for Knowshon Moreno in my redraft PPR league tonight. It might just be me, but I like the Moreno side by a decent margin.

I'm a Wilson owner and I'd make that trade right now. In fact, I just offered it to the Moreno owner in my league.

 

[Eminence]

Why would anyone want him as their feature back? Those long TD runs?

No TD David Wilson has scored I don't think a comparable scatback couldn't have scored on as well.

Terrible pass-catcher to boot. Go cry some more, David.

 

[rickyg]

People selling him right now are seriously going to regret it. He's about to play Carolina. Not exactly a top offense. There is a decent chance that the giants might actually take and protect a lead in this game. Eli and coughlin are talking about how they need more balance BW run and pass. So is coaching staff. Eli's INTs are coming BC too much is being out on his shoulders rt now. The whole team is rallying behind Wilson. His performance in week 2 was better than week 1. He proved to coughlin he can go in there and secure the ball.

Providing that continues his role will grow all season long. Those who sell low now out of panic will be sorry IMO.

 

[2ksports]

This situation screams buy low. Look at his value (not much), and look at his potential (Top 10 finish).

His combination of strength, speed, and vision is unmatched by everyone in NY, including Andre Brown. He was named the starter because the coaching staff knows this. Otherwise, Brown would have been named starter.

He looks like a jaded but supremely talented RB and if he can overcome the fumbling and pass protection, which he can, you will be way too late. At times like this, when his value is at its lowest, is when you make the move.

Don't even hesitate, it's a gamble well worth making.

You make it sound like top 10 finish is as likely as him being worthless. I assure you that him being worthless has a much higher % chance of happening.

50% chance he's un-startable for the rest of the season. 49% chance he's bad, but can be used as a flex play now and then. 1% chance of that top 10 finish you're talking about.

Don't throw good money after bad, this guy is toast.

A guy has 2 bad games in a row because he fumbled twice, and now there is a 99% chance of him barely being playable?

Is this seriously the consensus of everyone here?

 

[jacobo_moses]

David Wilson and the Giants' Play Calling: Now What?

by JJ Zachariason on Sep 16th, 2013

"After two games in this young NFL season, David Wilson is worse than everyone.Plaxico Burress, who was put on IR before the season began, has more standard fantasy points than him. So does the suspended Jerome Felton, the PUP’d Jonathan Stewart and the retired Glen Coffee. And, dare I say, so does Brandon freaking Jacobs.

It wasn’t a surprise to see the Giants lose to the Broncos on Sunday. It was, however, surprising to see just how stubborn and mind-blowingly ridiculous the Giants coaching staff was with their running backs.

Yesterday was more than a loss for the Giants. It was a sign. The Giants don’t trust David Wilson the way fantasy owners want them to, and this notion is deeper than just peeping the stat sheet to see the running back splits. It’s much deeper.

Breaking Down the Giants Play-by-Play Against the BroncosWe can forgive the New York coaching staff for their benching of David Wilson against the Cowboys Week 1. After fumbling the ball twice, there was no reason for him to be in the game.

I’m not sure we can forgive them for Week 2, though.

I dug into the play-by-play of the Giants game yesterday, and the only word to describe what I saw was “ridiculous”. Let’s take a look.

On the first drive for the G-Men, with the game scoreless, David Wilson saw two carries and a target on five offensive plays. The first play of the game was a deep pass from Elito Victor Cruz, good for 51 yards. Wilson had two carries for six yards, while newcomer Brandon Jacobs saw one for five. Fine. Great. The drive resulted in a field goal and the lead for the Giants.

After a Denver punt, the Giants had the ball again up by three. Wilson got the first touch of the drive, resulting in a three-yard loss. Eli then threw two incomplete passes. The Giants punted the ball back to the Peytons.

Did David Wilson make a pass at Coughlin's wife after that three-yard loss? Because after the carry, which happened with over four minutes left in the first quarter, Brandon Jacobs started seeing the field on early downs. Guys, it’s not like we’re talking about Andre Brown here. We talkin’ bout Prac…Brandon Jacobs!

The next David Wilson carry occurred almost an entire quarter (three offensive drives and a couple of Jacobs carries) after his three-yard loss, and he touched the ball for a nice six-yard gain on first down. Wilson then had two more carries which went for two and six, and the drive resulted in a field goal after Eli Manning couldn’t complete a pass.

So let’s get this straight for a second: The Giants are now up 9-7 against the best team in the AFC, and David Wilson was the primary back during two of those field goal drives. And the one where he wasn’t, Brandon Jacobs ran once for a two-yard loss.

OK. Let’s continue.

The next non-two-minute drill drive for the Giants occurred in the third, where Eli dropped back to pass three times and failed to convert on a first down. New York was down by just one at that point, keep in mind, but a first-down sack forced the team to pass on second and third down.

After a Broncos touchdown, the Giants found themselves on their own 19 down by eight. Eli started to move the ball, but Wilson saw one carry (no gain) on the 12-play, touchdown-scoring drive. Brandon Jacobs, understandably (I guess), saw three carries within the Denver five-yard line. Da’Rel Scott saw one too.

This drive told me a lot. The Giants were pass-heavy, which isn’t incredibly surprising; the team and play calling is a "giant" panic attack on offense. David Wilson, to note, wasn’t part of that attack.

The other takeaway here: David Wilson probably won’t be the goal line back because of his fumbling issues and smaller build. That’s fine, as Andre Brown was going to assume that role anyway before he was hurt. But even if Wilson sees a bigger role, don’t expect him to score seven or eight touchdowns this year.

The G-Men found themselves down by just one point towards the end the third. It’s kind of surprising considering the game’s score. Knowshon Moreno then scored his second touchdown (which would’ve been Montee Ball if not for an early-game goal line fumble), putting the Giants down eight.

Then Eli threw an interception. Then Trindon Holliday returned a punt for a touchdown. Then Da’Rel Scott – the Giants clear third-down back – saw most of the running back playing time for the majority of the fourth quarter.

David Wilson saw zero offensive touches after the 7:34 mark in the third quarter.

In the end, Da’Rel Scott saw 39 snaps, David Wilson saw 24 and Brandon Jacobs 14. The Scott numbers were due to his third-down role, as the Giants found themselves in a big hole in the fourth quarter. It would seem fair to assume that Wilson would have seen a few more touches if not for a late-game meltdown by the Giants.

Reason to Believe in a CommitteeIf we’re using the game against Denver as the barometer, it would make sense that a running back-by-committee is the future for New York. The problem for Wilson is that the Giants offensive play calling is so fear-driven that, any time the team goes down by even just a score, it’s going to be Eli’s turn to toss the rock around the field. Because David Wilson’s third-down role is diminished by Da’Rel Scott (I can’t even believe I’m typing this), he’s not going to see the kind of snaps fantasy owners want him to.

The Giants defense has holes, so it’s not safe to assume they’ll consistently have the lead this year. We’ve already seen that through two weeks of the season. If this doesbecomes a full blown committee, David Wilson will more than likely only be a valuable fantasy play when the Giants are facing poor competition. In other words, he’s a bench guy that could see your lineup every now and then.

Reason to Believe in WilsonBut guys, the Giants are 0-2. During Week 1, partially because of the David Wilson fumbles, the G-Men ranked dead last in adjusted rushing net expected points per play. In other words, they surrendered the most points to opposition via the run than any other team in the NFL. Their efficiency was borderline atrocious.

That continued into Week 2, and the good news is that David Wilson wasn’t the biggest offender. Brandon Jacobs carried the ball seven times for four yards, and Da’Rel Scott had five attempts for just two. Though Wilson’s seven for 17 was bad, it was at least the best of the three. And, as noted above, the Giants favorable drives against Denver involved Wilson over the other two backs.

You could make the argument that the Giants need David Wilson to have any semblance of a complete offense. Brandon Jacobs hasn’t been relevant since Conan O’Brien hostedThe Tonight Show, and Da’Rel Scott’s efficiency numbers on his few attempts haven’t been anything but mediocre.

The Giants still haven’t won, and David Wilson still hasn’t been an integral part of their offense. Is it just a coincidence? (Perhaps – their defense has been miserable.)

What Now?You’re either a David Wilson owner or you’re not. If you are, you have four choices: drop him, start him, trade him, bench him.

Dropping him wouldn’t make much sense at this point. Unless you’re in a 6-team league, David Wilson’s going to be better than anything off your waiver wire.

Starting Wilson wouldn’t make much sense either, unless you’re completely desperate. The play calling disaster in New York can’t make you feel confident about slotting a guy like Wilson in your lineup.

Trading the Giants runner would be a strange thing to do. We all go with the “buy low, sell high” attitude in fantasy, and you’d be selling Wilson at his probable extreme low. Who are you going to get? Daniel Thomas? Is there a point?

Benching David Wilson is the only choice. It’s time to think of David Wilson as a high-upside play that has just as much of a chance of breaking out as any other benched running back. It’s a sad day for David Wilson owners, I know, but the instant you recognize the mess in New York, the instant you become a better fantasy owner. Keep him on your bench until you see a change of heart with the Giants coaching staff. If he has a breakout game from there, that’s fine – at least you know you didn’t make a reactionary move that could end up costing you the season."

As a Wilson Dyn owner I just don't see how you can do anything but hold. (He is a 1st Rnd talent that even Tiki Barber has said the Giants have never had a dynamic RB as Wilson.)

But with how Coughlin will handle Wilson in the game script, using a 3 RB rotation between (Brown,Scott, Jacobs and Wilson), and the def for NYG always letting games get out of hand so they are pass happy. You pretty much have to call this season a lost season for Wilson and hope for better days next year or when Wilson is with another team.

 

[Eminence]

This situation screams buy low. Look at his value (not much), and look at his potential (Top 10 finish).

His combination of strength, speed, and vision is unmatched by everyone in NY, including Andre Brown. He was named the starter because the coaching staff knows this. Otherwise, Brown would have been named starter.

He looks like a jaded but supremely talented RB and if he can overcome the fumbling and pass protection, which he can, you will be way too late. At times like this, when his value is at its lowest, is when you make the move.

Don't even hesitate, it's a gamble well worth making.

You make it sound like top 10 finish is as likely as him being worthless. I assure you that him being worthless has a much higher % chance of happening.

50% chance he's un-startable for the rest of the season. 49% chance he's bad, but can be used as a flex play now and then. 1% chance of that top 10 finish you're talking about.

Don't throw good money after bad, this guy is toast.

A guy has 2 bad games in a row because he fumbled twice, and now there is a 99% chance of him barely being playable?

Is this seriously the consensus of everyone here?

I've always thought he was overrated, great gadget player but WAY too one-dimensional.

Sure, he 'might' score a long one. But he also 'might' fumble or get Eli sacked. Start him if you want.

But a RB who can't a block or catch well is VERY easy to defend against. All speed, no wiggle.

Wait til he gets banged up, let's see how much "burst" he has left.

 

[Casting Couch]

This situation screams buy low. Look at his value (not much), and look at his potential (Top 10 finish).

His combination of strength, speed, and vision is unmatched by everyone in NY, including Andre Brown. He was named the starter because the coaching staff knows this. Otherwise, Brown would have been named starter.

He looks like a jaded but supremely talented RB and if he can overcome the fumbling and pass protection, which he can, you will be way too late. At times like this, when his value is at its lowest, is when you make the move.

Don't even hesitate, it's a gamble well worth making.

You make it sound like top 10 finish is as likely as him being worthless. I assure you that him being worthless has a much higher % chance of happening.

50% chance he's un-startable for the rest of the season. 49% chance he's bad, but can be used as a flex play now and then. 1% chance of that top 10 finish you're talking about.

Don't throw good money after bad, this guy is toast.

A guy has 2 bad games in a row because he fumbled twice, and now there is a 99% chance of him barely being playable?

Is this seriously the consensus of everyone here?

I've always thought he was overrated, great gadget player but WAY too one-dimensional.

Sure, he 'might' score a long one. But he also 'might' fumble or get Eli sacked. Start him if you want.

But a RB who can't a block or catch well is VERY easy to defend against. All speed, no wiggle.

Wait til he gets banged up, let's see how much "burst" he has left.

 

[2ksports]

This situation screams buy low. Look at his value (not much), and look at his potential (Top 10 finish).

His combination of strength, speed, and vision is unmatched by everyone in NY, including Andre Brown. He was named the starter because the coaching staff knows this. Otherwise, Brown would have been named starter.

He looks like a jaded but supremely talented RB and if he can overcome the fumbling and pass protection, which he can, you will be way too late. At times like this, when his value is at its lowest, is when you make the move.

Don't even hesitate, it's a gamble well worth making.

You make it sound like top 10 finish is as likely as him being worthless. I assure you that him being worthless has a much higher % chance of happening.

50% chance he's un-startable for the rest of the season. 49% chance he's bad, but can be used as a flex play now and then. 1% chance of that top 10 finish you're talking about.

Don't throw good money after bad, this guy is toast.

A guy has 2 bad games in a row because he fumbled twice, and now there is a 99% chance of him barely being playable?

Is this seriously the consensus of everyone here?

I've always thought he was overrated, great gadget player but WAY too one-dimensional.

Sure, he 'might' score a long one. But he also 'might' fumble or get Eli sacked. Start him if you want.

But a RB who can't a block or catch well is VERY easy to defend against. All speed, no wiggle.

Wait til he gets banged up, let's see how much "burst" he has left.

Terrible analysis of David Wilson.

It's easy to kick a man when he's down.

For starters, his greatest asset isn't even speed. Just look up his 40 time.

 

[RushHour]

Where does this idea come from that Wilson can't "catch well"? Hard to show anything if you're not given the opportunity. Same with GL carries.

 

[Eminence]

I've always thought he was overrated, great gadget player but WAY too one-dimensional.Sure, he 'might' score a long one. But he also 'might' fumble or get Eli sacked. Start him if you want.

But a RB who can't a block or catch well is VERY easy to defend against. All speed, no wiggle.

Wait til he gets banged up, let's see how much "burst" he has left.

Terrible analysis of David Wilson.

It's easy to kick a man when he's down.

For starters, his greatest asset isn't even speed. Just look up his 40 time.

Too bad I've been saying this #### for months.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=681790&page=1

 

[zoonation]

If the Giants don't wake up and get this guy the ball more, they are done this year. Right now they are a joke offensively and giving Jacobs meaningful work just serves to illustrate that point.

Jacobs looks absolutely brutal out there.

Furthermore, Eli's picks are the real turnover problem here. Butthat is partially because they cant run the ball for #### and the joke of a back they put in their on third downs isnt a threat to do anything in the screen game.

They need to live and die with Wilson or they are done.

 

[Banger]

Thinking of offering Deandre Hopkins in a keep 4 + rookie league for him.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Where does this idea come from that Wilson can't "catch well"? Hard to show anything if you're not given the opportunity. Same with GL carries.

Just a guess here, but I am thinking the Giants' coaches have had ample opportunity to evaluate his skills and development in OTA's, training camp, and practices.

Its actually possible that they may have more information on this than some of the experts who post here.

 

[RushHour]

Where does this idea come from that Wilson can't "catch well"? Hard to show anything if you're not given the opportunity. Same with GL carries.

Just a guess here, but I am thinking the Giants' coaches have had ample opportunity to evaluate his skills and development in OTA's, training camp, and practices.

Its actually possible that they may have more information on this than some of the experts who post here.

Sure, I'm just saying that there was a post earlier saying he can't catch. As far as i'm concerned that's just an ill-informed assumption from someone who doesn't like Wilson. If he's not playing on passing downs, it's probably got more to do with pass protection than an utter inability to catch a football.

 

[FDC]

Where does this idea come from that Wilson can't "catch well"? Hard to show anything if you're not given the opportunity. Same with GL carries.

Just a guess here, but I am thinking the Giants' coaches have had ample opportunity to evaluate his skills and development in OTA's, training camp, and practices.

Its actually possible that they may have more information on this than some of the experts who post here.

Sure, I'm just saying that there was a post earlier saying he can't catch. As far as i'm concerned that's just an ill-informed assumption from someone who doesn't like Wilson. If he's not playing on passing downs, it's probably got more to do with pass protection than an utter inability to catch a football.

This

And should we really expect a ton of pass happy games in the future?

Not every game will be vs an offense like Denver and not every game will have 7 turnovers like the Cowboys game

Next week is @ Carolina. Andre Brown just happened to break out week 3 @ Carolina last year.

 

[Rick James]

Funny how people are slobbering all over Gio Bernard but so quick to dismiss David Wilson. Now I love me some Gio and targeted him in a lot of drafts, but strictly speaking Wilson was considered a better prospect and talent. Wilson was a first round draft pick, selected behind Trent Richardson and Doug Martin. Gio was a 2nd round pick and first off the board in a pretty weak RB class.

 

[JuniorNB]

Funny how people are slobbering all over Gio Bernard but so quick to dismiss David Wilson. Now I love me some Gio and targeted him in a lot of drafts, but strictly speaking Wilson was considered a better prospect and talent. Wilson was a first round draft pick, selected behind Trent Richardson and Doug Martin. Gio was a 2nd round pick and first off the board in a pretty weak RB class.

The difference is, Marvin Lewis is much better at taking advantage of Bernard's skillset than Coughlin is with Wilson. How in the hell can they make Scott the third down back? I've seen Scott have several opportunities to catch a ball in space. Of course, he runs until he gets near defenders and he goes down on first contact. Just like Giovani did last night, Wilson would excel in that kind of space, You'd think Coughlin and Gilbride would be smart enough to figure out that getting Wilson the ball out in space might be beneficial to the offense. Instead, they hand him the ball and tell him to run off-guard. Holding the ball like Larry Czonka.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

Call a tow truck cuz the wheels have come off this bandwagon...