DeAngelo: Where is he going to go? (1 Viewer)

[houndirish]

You lay ot in the 1st paragraph exactly why I think Fox is headed for disaster agan. He isn't going to change so the fact he had a gem like DWill and didn't maximize him right away tells me al I need to know about the situation.

Is this really worth all this posting? I'm thinking no.

In fairness to Fox, Deshaun Foster wasn't exactly devoid of talent and Foster was used the same way (as a CoP back) while Stephen Davis was finishing his career in Carolina. Fox was a protege of Bill Parcells who was also very loyal to veterans at the expense of rookies/youngsters.

That's the whole point. DeAngelo went through the same professional development that all players go through. The difference is that Fox thinks you need to go through that before he hands you the reigns while other coaches would go ahead and play you.

Fox has started many rookies at their positions. All of Fox's first round picks have started as rookies with the exception of DeAngelo and Stewart, and both got playing time during their rookie seasons.

This isn't 100% accurate. Thomas Davis was not a full time starter his rookie season. Also, I tend to think there are very few, if any, coaches who have a rule they live by as it relates to playing rookies right away. I think the decision to start a rookie lies primarily in their ability to meet the challenge and the level of need at the position. Plain and simple, if the guy can play and there's an open opportunity for him I think the Coach will stick him in there. If the squad is already deep at the position it's going to be a tough climb initially for the prospect.

Now I do agree that the opposite is definitely possible (Coaches who tend to show blind loyalty to veterans versus starting promising younger players).

 

[houndirish]

I think the Giants will attempt to re-sign Bradshaw and will probably be successful, however if he gets away I think the GMen would be a player in the DW sweepstakes. The Giants don't trust Jacobs to be the bellcow and DW has played well versus NY.

I tend to agree that Miami doesn't appear likely. As a DW owner I'd be happy with him going to Denver but I don't see it as the automatic slam dunk others are forecasting.

 

[drfeelgood]

This isn't 100% accurate. Thomas Davis was not a full time starter his rookie season.

The point is Fox does start rookies. Peppers, Gross, Beason, Gamble, and Otah all started as rookies. Thomas Davis played in all 16 games his rookie season, and started one. Those are just the first rounders. He started other rookies as well during his tenure.

 

[Grahamburn]

Guys, how is any of this relevant to where DeAngelo is going to play football this season?

 

[JamesTheScot]

This is a bunch of hindsight justification and cliche'.

Williams, like all rookies, even the ones who produce at a high level right away, came into the league with the light off. Anyone think LT never had a "the light came on" moment? Anyone think LT in year 3 wasn't a better professional than he was as a rookie? Yet he started right away. Williams isn't describing anything that's unique to him. All rookies go through it. The difference is that some coaches prefer to develop their players on the bench while others believe in development under fire. DeAngelo obviously played for the former.

He's a class act. And it's fine that he is gracious and philosophical about his first two years. The guy has done nothing but support another RB who was drafted to replace him. That isn't proof of Fox's wisdom, it's proof of DeAngelo's character. Big difference. He's never going to throw Fox under the bus because that's not who he is.

I don't buy for a minute that he didn't play more those first two years because he couldn't. It's because his coach, who apparently values experience more than talent, didn't want him to. It's that simple. DeAngelo showed what he was capable of those first two years. Fox just had different priorities. And DeAngelo was a good soldier who took it all in stride and towed the party line without making ripples.

Think I'm wrong? Explain Delhomme the last couple of years. That's who Fox is.

Yes I think you are wrong. If you watched DeAngelo his first two years it was obvious he wasn't ready. If you listened to him in his interviews during camp 2008 it was clear he was being brutally honest about the light coming on for him. All the players and coaches in their interviews during camp were astounded by his improvement and attitude change. Delhomme's situation was completely different than DeAngelos. Delhomme started to regress in his second to last year with the Panthers, but the Panthers went to the playoffs. Nobody expected his final year to be a disaster. Jake got into his own head with his mistakes and couldn't get himself out, and yes Fox should have changed QBs before Delhomme got hurt, but he was loyal to him to a fault. That is completely different than having a seasoned RB like Foster already with the team, starting over a rookie who can't block worth a damn, runs backwards at the like of scrimmage, and doesn't care if he is out of shape.

I watched DeAngelo his first two years. What I saw was a guy that did more with fewer touches than Foster did. Was Foster a better pass blocker? Sure. But it's not like Foster was all that great. But even allowing for that, DeAngelo was outpacing Foster in terms of his yards per touch in 2006 and absolutely blew his doors off in 2007. And this wasn't a situation where he was only getting a couple of touches each game and his numbers were skewed by a fluke play. Over 2006 and 2007 he averaged about 11 touches per game while Foster was getting about 17 per game. And that's not even mentioning DeAngelo's nine, yes 9, fewer fumbles than Foster had over those two years. Funny how Fox will stick with a vet who turns the ball over.Yes, DeAngelo got caught from behind after a 75 yard run. How many 75 yarders did Foster bust that year? Well, his long run was 20 yards, so I don't know, was Foster ever caught from behind? Had the light not come on for Foster? Was he not taking his prep or conditioning seriously enough? What was it? Anecdotes can be #####es in that way.

I'm not arguing that DeAngelo 2008 was not a better ball player than DeAngelo 2006 was. In fact I'm certain he was. Even the great ones were better in their third year than they were in their first year. It's a natural progression. I'd venture to say that most every NFL player will tell you that the game slowed down for him in year two and by year three he was also much further along in his mental grasp of the game. I expect a 3rd year RB to be better than he was his rookie year. Did something change for DeAngelo in 2008? Sure, he had seniority. And I'm sure after two years under Fox he saw it as an opportunity to be the seasoned vet at the top of the rotation. That would explain the attitude change. For Pete's sake, John Beck is acting like he's the starter in Washington this offseason! Does that mean the light has come on for Beck and he's just now figured out how to be a professional QB in the NFL? What do I make of a guy who comes into the offseason acting like he wants to be or is the starter?

I put about as much stock in that sort of "attitude change" as I do in reports that a player is in the best shape of his life. It really doesn't mean that much. It just makes a nice handy hook to hang your hat on when you're trying to explain causation after the fact.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Guys, how is any of this relevant to where DeAngelo is going to play football this season?

It's not. You make a good point. Sorry for the hijack.

 

[Arizona Ron]

Washington Redskins

Even with the drafting of Helu and Royster??

Yes. Helu and Royster may not even make the team. DeAngelo is a proven NFL RB; they can't rely simply on Ryan Torain and two rookies.Now that's what I think they should do. What they will do is rely on Torain and two rookies because Shanny believes (and has proved some would say) that RBs are a time a dozen.