Defining Big Games (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

You can see how it works -- when he lost in the first round, people nodded and said he can't win the big game. But when he won in the playoffs, it wasn't "big" anymore. It was a big game whenever he'd lose to the Pats, except when he won -- then it was just another game. Follow the line of thought and it's clear that he'll never win a big game, by definition, until he wins the Super Bowl.

You got it, smc. That's how the perception of the average fan works.J

 

[bostonfred]

Maybe Manning's better when he gets out to an early lead, like he did in all three of his playoff wins?  Maybe the way to beat the Colts is to get out to an early lead then blitz him and force Manning to make mistakes?

Hi fred,I'd ask: What QB is not better when he gets out to an early lead? What team doesn't think the way to beat any team is to get out to an early lead, pressure the QB and force him into mistakes?

J

Agreed. But since the difference in actual performance has been drastically different, maybe the difference between Manning's performance in low pressure situations (with a lead) and high pressure situations (pressing in a playoff game) is just bigger than it is for other QBs.

 

[bostonfred]

Hi Jurb,

It's my opinion that people are not understanding pressure and how it affects these pro athletes. Sure they're people and human but it's also their job. Guys like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have been performing before crowds of 100,000 + people since they got out of high school.

I really don't think these guys play much different in the playoffs than they do in a big Monday Night Football game against a top team. Just my opinion.

J

I agree that there are some people who react the way you describe. But I don't think that's true of every person. Let's just run through these facts (feel free to dispute any of them if you think I'm wrong):1) Performing under pressure is more difficult than performing without pressure. For example, I think I could kick a 45 yard field goal if I practiced, but if it were for a million dollars on national TV, I would say my odds were significantly worse.

2) It is possible to improve at performing under pressure. For example, I used to hate public speaking, but now I teach for a living.

3) There are degrees of ability to performing under pressure. For example, even though I talk for a living now, I was nervous and my voice shook a little when I delivered a best man's speech at my best friend's wedding.

4) Some people - even if it's not you - perceive a difference between the importance of a playoff game and the importance of a regular season Monday night game.

5) It's possible to be exceptionally good at one skill (in this case, throwing a football) but just be above average at another, complementary skill (in this case, handling pressure).

If you agree with all five statements, then your argument must be incorrect.

Hi Fred,I'm sorry but you're missing what I'm saying. I said, "I really don't think these guys play much different in the playoffs than they do in a big Monday Night Football game against a top team. Just my opinion."

That's nowhere near close to "professional football players can't choke".

J

That sentence has been deleted. The rest of the post still contains my thoughts on it - I believe that some guys play much different in the playoffs than they do in a big Monday Night Football game against a top team, and I don't think it's reasonable to assume that NOBODY does, especially when empirical evidence seems to suggest they do.

 

[gilpdawg]

So what you are saying is that Payton has not played in a big game yet? So that means he cant even win the little game nice. What a chump QB he is.

Manning choked Sunday. Nobody with a brain can deny that. However, he DID NOT choke vs. New England in the previous playoff losses. There's no shame in losing to New England those years where they were clearly the better team. To me, a choke is when you lose a game you should win, and the Pittsburgh game is probably the first playoff game they've lost that you can honestly say they were favored. The Jets game a few years back, the whole team just didn't show up, and against Miami the previous year, they let Lamar Smith run for 200 yards. They lost to Tennessee in Manning's first playoff game, which is to be expected, as the whole team was very young then. As a Colts homer, the Pittsburgh game is the first game I've ever been disgusted with honestly. It was pathetic.

 

[brobe4]

Come on Manning beat kc,denver twice at that time neither team had a very good defense.Manning is a good qb he is not a great qb in the playoffs he has been shutdown to much to argue this point.I think he is like warren moon,dan fouts both these guys were good qbs there teams did well, but they never got over the hump.Mannings hype is just bigger then his results in the playoffs.I mean everyone that buys his stuff jerseys etcme included wants him to be a champ, and will be rooting for him in 2006, but ,the cold hard facts is that he will probably never be a superbowl winner.

 

[Da Guru]

My feeling is that Cowher has kept his teams at at very high level for a long period. Many of those teams I have felt over achieved. The thing is if you played Pitt since Cower has been there you knew you were in for a tough game!

 

[brobe4]

My feeling is that Cowher has kept his teams at at very high level for a long period.

Many of those teams I have felt over achieved.

The thing is if you played Pitt since Cower has been there you knew you were in for a tough game!

Anytime you are in the 2nd or 3rd rd of the playoff there going to be tough games I do not care if there name is Joe Friday or what.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I agree. In all sports in this country, there's an all-or-nothinbg attitude that prevails - every team is a failure if they don't win it all. I hear things referred to as "The Buffalo Bills of X" or "The Atlanta Braves of Y" all the time and I just don't get it.

Sure, you like to win it all, but being a fan of a team means you root for that team every week. My Sundays are MADE when the Steelers win and just crap when they lose. \

This is as far as I got in the thread, so I don't know if this was brought up, but this is exactly why I disagreed with all the "I hope my team loses so we have a better draft pick" in November and December threads.Every week is a big week IMO, and it makes your week whether your team wins or loses. It's not all about winning the Super Bowl, or else no one would watch the NFL until that week. Every game is important.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

You can see how it works -- when he lost in the first round, people nodded and said he can't win the big game. But when he won in the playoffs, it wasn't "big" anymore. It was a big game whenever he'd lose to the Pats, except when he won -- then it was just another game. Follow the line of thought and it's clear that he'll never win a big game, by definition, until he wins the Super Bowl.

You got it, smc. That's how the perception of the average fan works.J

Yes, and the perception of the Pay-Me-Tons apologists is it's never Peytons fault when the Colts lose, he is only involved in their wins. If greatness was determined by regular season FF stats then Peyton is greatest of all time. But most of the real football world is more interested in championships and until Peyton wins one there will always be room for legitimate criticism.Yes, there are some semi big games during the season but all playoff games are Bigger are they not?

Conference championships are Bigger than wildcard games and divisional playoffs.

The Super Bowl is obviously THE Biggest game.

The problem so many here have is recognizing the important differences between wonderful regular season FF stats and clutch playoff performances in the truly biggest of games.

The Bigger the game the smaller Peyton plays