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Democrats need to wake the hell up (1 Viewer)

timschochet

timschochet

Footballguy
Allow me to express my dismay as a centrist Democrat about the current state of the party. Things are going downhill, big time. We’re going to get a bunch of Trumplike Republicans in Congress next year, we might get Jim Jordan as speaker and we might get Trump himself back in the White House in 2025. Is that what you guys want? If not, wake the #### up! 
 

Specifically: 

1. Stop pretending you guys can negotiate with Joe Manchin. You can’t. and he knows it. So agree to whatever he wants, or the BBB deal is dead. If you don’t like that then elect some more progressives. But stop complaining about him. This is the best you’re going to get for now. 
 

2. Forget about a voting rights bill. That would take breaking the filibuster and it’s NEVER going to happen. So stop talking about it, you guys sound like whiny losers. 
 

3. The biggest issues for the American people right now are inflation and Covid, in that order. These are difficult, if not impossible issues for Democrats to solve by themselves, but they’d better start acting like they’re at least trying. In particular, pretending that inflation isn’t happening is going to serve the Democrats exactly as well as Trump was served when he tried to pretend that Covid wasn’t happening. The public knows better. Get off your butts and try to do something. 
 

There’s more. A lot more. The clock is ticking guys. Get it together. 

 
4. Make DC a state already.  The next 12 months may be the only chance for another decade.

5. Get serious about the courts.  Start suing states that are replacing executive control of elections with legislative control.

6. Move faster on the Jan 6 investigation.  Don't let Republicans run out the clock.  Make EVERYTHING public.

 
timschochet said:
Allow me to express my dismay as a centrist Democrat about the current state of the party. Things are going downhill, big time. We’re going to get a bunch of Trumplike Republicans in Congress next year, we might get Jim Jordan as speaker and we might get Trump himself back in the White House in 2025. Is that what you guys want? If not, wake the #### up! 
 

Specifically: 

1. Stop pretending you guys can negotiate with Joe Manchin. You can’t. and he knows it. So agree to whatever he wants, or the BBB deal is dead. If you don’t like that then elect some more progressives. But stop complaining about him. This is the best you’re going to get for now. 
 

2. Forget about a voting rights bill. That would take breaking the filibuster and it’s NEVER going to happen. So stop talking about it, you guys sound like whiny losers. 
 

3. The biggest issues for the American people right now are inflation and Covid, in that order. These are difficult, if not impossible issues for Democrats to solve by themselves, but they’d better start acting like they’re at least trying. In particular, pretending that inflation isn’t happening is going to serve the Democrats exactly as well as Trump was served when he tried to pretend that Covid wasn’t happening. The public knows better. Get off your butts and try to do something. 
 

There’s more. A lot more. The clock is ticking guys. Get it together. 
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Big deal. Biden will still be president and the Republicans will prove they can’t govern either. I no long care about our federal government,  neither side works for all Americans.

 
Rich Conway said:
.

6. Move faster on the Jan 6 investigation.  Don't let Republicans run out the clock.  Make EVERYTHING public.
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Agreed on this. Public hearings are a must. These contempt charges are meaningless. 
 

Personally I think they should ask Trump to testify. His ego may not allow him to refuse. 

 
crackattack said:
I would stop threatening to expand the Supreme Court too.
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Actually…as a political move the promise to do so might serve them well, especially if Roe gets overturned this summer. 
I’m with you, I hate the idea, but it could energize the base like nothing else. 

 
tonydead said:
🏳️  Wave the white flag.  You never had a chance with Biden as your quarterback.  
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Firmly disagree. I don’t think Biden is the problem. 
If Biden had his way infrastructure would have been done in August and it would have been more bipartisan, which would have made BBB easier to do and probably done by now. But the leftists screwed up the works (like they usually do IMO.) 

 
timschochet said:
Actually…as a political move the promise to do so might serve them well, especially if Roe gets overturned this summer. 
I’m with you, I hate the idea, but it could energize the base like nothing else. 
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IF roe gets overturned, yes. I could see that energizing their base and some independents. But the talk of expanding it during the election and campaigning seems like sore losers.

 
Rich Conway said:
4. Make DC a state already.  The next 12 months may be the only chance for another decade.

5. Get serious about the courts.  Start suing states that are replacing executive control of elections with legislative control.

6. Move faster on the Jan 6 investigation.  Don't let Republicans run out the clock.  Make EVERYTHING public.
Click to expand...
This is a great strategy for the Democrats to lock down the Twitter vote.

Unfortunately, Twitter is like 5% of the electorate.  This agenda is political malpractice for the other 95% of the electorate.

 
timschochet said:
3. The biggest issues for the American people right now are inflation and Covid, in that order. These are difficult, if not impossible issues for Democrats to solve by themselves, but they’d better start acting like they’re at least trying. In particular, pretending that inflation isn’t happening is going to serve the Democrats exactly as well as Trump was served when he tried to pretend that Covid wasn’t happening. The public knows better. Get off your butts and try to do something. 
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By way of contrast, this is exactly right.  These are normal concerns held by normies, and I don't think Biden has been substantively bad on either issue (inflation is due to Trump-era policies at least as much as any Biden-era policies) but his messaging has been atrocious, again to the point of political malpractice.  The good news is that that's fixable, at least in theory.

 
timschochet said:
Allow me to express my dismay as a centrist Democrat about the current state of the party. Things are going downhill, big time. We’re going to get a bunch of Trumplike Republicans in Congress next year, we might get Jim Jordan as speaker and we might get Trump himself back in the White House in 2025. Is that what you guys want? If not, wake the #### up! 
 

Specifically: 

1. Stop pretending you guys can negotiate with Joe Manchin. You can’t. and he knows it. So agree to whatever he wants, or the BBB deal is dead. If you don’t like that then elect some more progressives. But stop complaining about him. This is the best you’re going to get for now. 
 
Click to expand...


Manchin is from West Virginia.  Trump won that State by 39 points.  He is representing his constituents.  

 
IvanKaramazov said:
This is a great strategy for the Democrats to lock down the Twitter vote.

Unfortunately, Twitter is like 5% of the electorate.  This agenda is political malpractice for the other 95% of the electorate.
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Disagree, especially regarding legislative control of election certification.  Preventing that is just pure survival.

 
Rich Conway said:
Disagree, especially regarding legislative control of election certification.  Preventing that is just pure survival.
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I fear Ivan is right; the public doesn’t really know or care about this issue and there’s no way to stop it. All the Democrats can do is hope that at some point the Republicans will overplay their hand with some election shenanigans. Move on. 

 
Find a face of the party.   

 Stop fighting Manchin and Sinema.  You can't afford it.  Get compromised legislation passed, rather than blowing your window of opportunity and passing nothing.   Get things done.  Gain momentum.   

Marginalize the progressives.  They aren't going to align with Republicans and they aren't forming a third party.  You have their votes.   There are plenty of independents and anti-Trump conservatives that will support moderate democrats, but won't support progressives.   You want to hold onto power, you need to do it from your core strength, not from the fringes.   

 
Rich Conway said:
Disagree, especially regarding legislative control of election certification.  Preventing that is just pure survival.
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Man, you make it sound like Dems are really up against the ropes.  Love it.   :thumbup:

What happened when you control all 3 branches?  Oh yes, Joe Biden happened.  

 
-fish- said:
Find a face of the party.   

 Stop fighting Manchin and Sinema.  You can't afford it.  Get compromised legislation passed, rather than blowing your window of opportunity and passing nothing.   Get things done.  Gain momentum.   

Marginalize the progressives.  They aren't going to align with Republicans and they aren't forming a third party.  You have their votes.   There are plenty of independents and anti-Trump conservatives that will support moderate democrats, but won't support progressives.   You want to hold onto power, you need to do it from your core strength, not from the fringes.   
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The Democrats had an opportunity to bring politics back to a time when both sides of the aisle would work together.  They missed the opportunity.  McConnell threw them a debt ceiling bone earlier in the year and Schumer rubbed his face in it.  Stupid.  If there is good legislation, both sides can come to an agreement (infrastructure).  

 
tonydead said:
Man, you make it sound like Dems are really up against the ropes.  Love it.   :thumbup:

What happened when you control all 3 branches?  Oh yes, Joe Biden happened.  
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Not having 60 seats in the Senate can be problematic we have seen.

The Dems control the SC?

 
timschochet said:
I fear Ivan is right; the public doesn’t really know or care about this issue and there’s no way to stop it. All the Democrats can do is hope that at some point the Republicans will overplay their hand with some election shenanigans. Move on. 
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Agreed.  The public doesn't know or care.  Nor will the public care when a liberal PAC or thinktank sues certain states in courts.

Ditto DC as a state.  The public won't really care.  Sure, Fox News watchers will hear months of "worst thing ever, end of the republic" hyperbole, but they'll hear that about something regardless and those people aren't voting D anyway.  Collect 2 Senators and 2 electoral votes and move on.

Ditto Jan 6 hearings.  If they turn up nothing, the public won't care.  The public didn't care when 247 Benghazi hearings turned up nothing.  There's more than a decent chance these hearings will show that sitting GOP representatives helped plan it and/or knew in advance exactly what would happen.

 
Step 1 - Counter the talking points Republicans will hammer. Fear will be used as per normal. How do you counter lies that resonate with swinging voters? Lengthy boring explanations don’t work.

Step 2 - The Democrats need a face that can make short sharp positive points that hit home runs with the swingers. Countering fear with fear isnt going to work. The Republicans are better at it and have more experience.

Step 3 - They need to find a way to curtail rampant gerrymandering and get democrat voters to the polls. 

 
John Maddens Lunchbox said:
Step 3 - They need to find a way to curtail rampant gerrymandering 
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This would benefit us all but neither party is really going to do anything about it.  The Republicans do it, but you can go check out what's going on in IL and NM for instance on redistricting, the D's hands aren't clean either.  It's why the House is full of extremists today from both parties.

 
timschochet said:
Allow me to express my dismay as a centrist Democrat about the current state of the party. Things are going downhill, big time. We’re going to get a bunch of Trumplike Republicans in Congress next year, we might get Jim Jordan as speaker and we might get Trump himself back in the White House in 2025. Is that what you guys want? If not, wake the #### up! 
 

Specifically: 

1. Stop pretending you guys can negotiate with Joe Manchin. You can’t. and he knows it. So agree to whatever he wants, or the BBB deal is dead. If you don’t like that then elect some more progressives. But stop complaining about him. This is the best you’re going to get for now. 
 

2. Forget about a voting rights bill. That would take breaking the filibuster and it’s NEVER going to happen. So stop talking about it, you guys sound like whiny losers. 
 

3. The biggest issues for the American people right now are inflation and Covid, in that order. These are difficult, if not impossible issues for Democrats to solve by themselves, but they’d better start acting like they’re at least trying. In particular, pretending that inflation isn’t happening is going to serve the Democrats exactly as well as Trump was served when he tried to pretend that Covid wasn’t happening. The public knows better. Get off your butts and try to do something. 
 

There’s more. A lot more. The clock is ticking guys. Get it together. 
Click to expand...
I’m old enough to remember your posts lecturing everyone on how Republicans won’t win another election….man this is rich thanks Tim. 🤣

 
tonydead said:
Rich Conway said:
There's more than a decent chance these hearings will show that sitting GOP representatives helped plan it and/or knew in advance exactly what would happen.
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:lol:    No there isn't.   
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Great.  Then we're in agreement that Trump and the rest of the GOP should stop stalling, stop fighting the release of records, and get it all out there in the public eye.  If there's nothing to see, then no reason to hide it.

 
Wokeness/PC culture is the #1 issue because it infects every aspect of our culture…Virginia was lost due to it and it appears it is helping the GOP make big inroads into the Latino vote…and it is only going to get worse because it is a runaway train on the left.

 
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Boston said:
Wokeness/PC culture is the #1 issue because it infects every aspect of our culture…Virginia was lost due to it and it appears it is helping the GOP make big inroads into the Latino vote…and it is only going to get worse because it is a runaway train on the left.
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To do this, you inevitably need to alter the foundational aspects of social media, and good luck fighting big tech when they are further entrenching themselves in DC every passing week.

 
Boston said:
Wokeness/PC culture is the #1 issue because it infects every aspect of our culture…Virginia was lost due to it and it appears it is helping the GOP make big inroads into the Latino vote…and it is only going to get worse because it is a runaway train on the left.
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Virginia was lost due to a critical gaff made by McAuliffe at the worst possible time and the fact that a comically high percentage of VA citizens thought he was the incumbent responsible for x, y, and z.

 
Roger Sterling said:
Virginia was lost due to a critical gaff made by McAuliffe at the worst possible time and the fact that a comically high percentage of VA citizens thought he was the incumbent responsible for x, y, and z.
Click to expand...


I think the election results had a little more depth to them that just the one gaffe.

 
GoBirds said:
I’m old enough to remember your posts lecturing everyone on how Republicans won’t win another election….man this is rich thanks Tim. 🤣
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You shouldn’t try to paraphrase what I wrote. It’s not accurate. What I wrote is that Republicans will have trouble winning national elections in the future due to demographic changes. That’s already proven to be accurate; 2004 was the last time that Democrats lost the popular vote. I believe this is true no matter how this shakes out in the near future, but that may not help Democrats in 2022 and 2024. 

 
Boston said:
Wokeness/PC culture is the #1 issue because it infects every aspect of our culture…Virginia was lost due to it and it appears it is helping the GOP make big inroads into the Latino vote…and it is only going to get worse because it is a runaway train on the left.
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Unfortunately I think there is some truth to this. It’s not the #1 issue (that will ever be the economy) but it is significant. It’s unfortunate because usually when these issues come up I am on the side of PC. But that doesn’t change the fact that many people aren’t and they will blame Democrats. 
But the PC culture is not something that can be turned off and on at the whim of the Democrats; it’s the result of a rebellion against decades of institutionalized mistreatment. It’s here to stay. 

 
Yes.  The Democratic party needs to skew to the moderate side.  The problem is that the definition of moderate has changed so much in the last 25 years.  I consider myself to be a moderate Democrat.  Hell, I considered voting for Dole until I decided that he was just too conservative for me.  (It was the only election that I sat out.. yeah, I threw my vote away, but I was still relatively young, lol)

But at this point I am considered a liberal.  But my opinions haven't changed!  I have been a Foreign Policy Hawk and a Domestic Policy Liberal all my life.  I believe in Capitalism, but it needs to have a heart.  i always thought that would be enough.

But now I find myself in a world where "alternative facts" are given the same weight as Actual Facts.  Where science is questioned not by only the lunatic fringe, but by tens of millions of people.  Where teaching history is considered to be wrong.

I am still a moderate.  But a good portion of the country has moved into the Twilight Zone, where I am considered to be a CNN watching Antifa sympathizer.  I don't watch CNN and I have no idea what the Antifa movement is about except for anarchy.

But one thing I will say is that January 6th was a threat to our democracy and anybody that doesn't think so has no idea what democracy is about.

 
timschochet said:
You shouldn’t try to paraphrase what I wrote. It’s not accurate. What I wrote is that Republicans will have trouble winning national elections in the future due to demographic changes. That’s already proven to be accurate; 2004 was the last time that Democrats lost the popular vote. I believe this is true no matter how this shakes out in the near future, but that may not help Democrats in 2022 and 2024. 
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Sounds like you are revising history again, I won’t bump anymore of your posts confirming this hypocrisy though as you were awfully bent out of shape when you revised your Cuomo positions. Just interesting to watch amigo and for the record I think you finally got it right this time.  :hifive:

 
Stop focusing on Trump.  The Trump obsession for the dems is baffling to me.  Hes beatable with a strong candidate.  Biden did it.  I think few thought he would be this bad as a President but oh well.  Focus on finding the next candidate that can. God even in this thread about the Democrats there's way too much about Trump Trump Trump.   And stop trying to win the woke vote.  That won't get you there.  The woke party is too fractured.  

 
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John Maddens Lunchbox said:
Step 1 - Counter the talking points Republicans will hammer. Fear will be used as per normal. How do you counter lies that resonate with swinging voters? Lengthy boring explanations don’t work.

Step 2 - The Democrats need a face that can make short sharp positive points that hit home runs with the swingers. Countering fear with fear isnt going to work. The Republicans are better at it and have more experience.

Step 3 - They need to find a way to curtail rampant gerrymandering and get democrat voters to the polls. 
Click to expand...
Are you seriously implying that republicans use fear but democrats do not?

Also, there’s plenty of gerrymandering done by dems.  It’s not a Republicans only thing

 
The Democrats need to stop worrying about whether the Republicans will label their candidates as socialists and elect people putting forth good ideas.  The Republicans will label anyone as a socialist, as we are seeing with Biden

 
timschochet said:
You shouldn’t try to paraphrase what I wrote. It’s not accurate. What I wrote is that Republicans will have trouble winning national elections in the future due to demographic changes. That’s already proven to be accurate; 2004 was the last time that Democrats lost the popular vote. I believe this is true no matter how this shakes out in the near future, but that may not help Democrats in 2022 and 2024. 
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Mehhhhh.   Im pretty sure I remember you saying many times the Republican party was dead.  Youre revising history....again.  sigh

 
supermike80 said:
Stop focusing on Trump.  The Trump obsession for the dems is baffling to me.  Hes beatable with a strong candidate.  Biden did it.  I think few thought he would be this bad as a President but oh well.  Focus on finding the next candidate that can. God even in this thread about the Democrats there's way too much about Trump Trump Trump.   And stop trying to win the woke vote.  That won't get you there.  The woke party is too fractured.  
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I can never tell if you guys are serious with this stuff or not.

 
supermike80 said:
I am 1000% serious 
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The guy just tried to overthrow an election, is still the leader of the party, and is actively working to rig states so that any losses in 2022 can be overturned. Ignoring him would be asinine and negligent. He needs to go to prison for the rest of his life.

 
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Roger Sterling said:
The guy just tried to overthrow an election, is still the leader of the party, and is actively working to rig states so that any losses in 2022 can be overturned. Ignoring him would be asinine and negligent. He needs to go to prison for the rest of his life.
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Hows that going so far?  Feeling like it's helping your election chances do you?

 
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