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Democrats need to wake the hell up (1 Viewer)

Cowboysfan8 said:
It that’s true then we need to mail out free at home drug tests along with the covid tests 
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It’s not true. Or- put it this way- it’s true in the same way that a similar percentage of Republicans approved of Trump’s performance, even during the dark days of 2020. 
For Democrats Biden is our team. It’s a tribal thing. 

 
timschochet said:
This is a very simplistic caricature of how liberals view criminal reform issues. 
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Nothing that happened in 2020 in blue states would convince anyone otherwise, though. Sometimes if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, has been a duck since 1964, well... 

 
quick-hands said:
It's almost as simplistic as 78 year old female new york jews see west Virginia residents.
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Dude, I thought the Jewish thing was fine and you were kidding around in the other thread, but really on this? I'm not Jewish, and I get that there are distinct regional/cultural issues to think about when brining up someone's region and religion, but this sounds personal. I think you need to back off the Jewish thing with Tim a bit, IMO. 

 
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rockaction said:
Dude, I thought the Jewish thing was fine and you were kidding around in the other thread, but really on this? I'm not Jewish, and I get that there are distinct regional/cultural issues to think about when brining up someone's region and religion, but this sounds personal. I think you need to back off the Jewish thing with Tim a bit, IMO. 
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Fair enough.   I just didn't like that she got a free pass from him cuz he likes her.

 
quick-hands said:
Fair enough.   I just didn't like that she got a free pass from him cuz he likes her.
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I do like her. That’s not the only  reason she got a pass from me. 
 But- for the record- I don’t like her because she’s a New York Jew. 
And I don’t know what any of this has to do with @tonydead’s misrepresentation of how liberals think about crime. 

 
timschochet said:
I do like her. That’s not the only  reason she got a pass from me. 
 But- for the record- I don’t like her because she’s a New York Jew. 
And I don’t know what any of this has to do with @tonydead’s misrepresentation of how liberals think about crime. 
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Well.    You will have to have 3 pints.    Then I can explain better.

 
It's interesting she has these views now and not when Manchin was one of the 50 senators plus VP Harris which put Chuck Schumer as majority leader.  If she can't take this, she better thank God for Joe Manchin because he's the only Democrat with any hopes of winning a race in WV.  Without him she'd be needing to learn to say the words "Leader McConnell".

 
Shula-holic said:
It's interesting she has these views now and not when Manchin was one of the 50 senators plus VP Harris which put Chuck Schumer as majority leader.  If she can't take this, she better thank God for Joe Manchin because he's the only Democrat with any hopes of winning a race in WV.  Without him she'd be needing to learn to say the words "Leader McConnell".
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The Democrats need to elect more senators, that is for sure. 

 
timschochet said:
The Democrats need to elect more senators, that is for sure. 
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Which is one reason I'm baffled by the non-movement on DC statehood.  Seems like this is a no-brainer without downside.  No one outside of DC who would consider voting D in the first place would change their vote over making DC a state.

 
Rich Conway said:
Which is one reason I'm baffled by the non-movement on DC statehood.  Seems like this is a no-brainer without downside.  No one outside of DC who would consider voting D in the first place would change their vote over making DC a state.
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That you are baffled by this betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of modern politics. 

 
rockaction said:
That you are baffled by this betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of modern politics. 
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Are you suggesting that Democrats don't want to make DC a state, don't have the ability (votes, political capital, etc.), or something else?

 
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Rich Conway said:
Are you suggesting that Democrats don't want to make DC a state, don't have the ability (votes, political capital, etc.), or something else?
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They don’t have the votes. They don’t have the political capital. 
 

But yes there is something else. They’re scared that white middle class voters will resent the creation of a new state that is largely occupied by poor people of color. That’s why Puerto Rico isn’t a state either. It’s why Democrats are hesitant to take any really strong action on giving a path to citizenship for illegals. They’re terrified of being abandoned by middle class whites. And ever since the ascent of Trump, they’re more terrified than ever. 

 
timschochet said:
They don’t have the votes. They don’t have the political capital. 
 

But yes there is something else. They’re scared that white middle class voters will resent the creation of a new state that is largely occupied by poor people of color. That’s why Puerto Rico isn’t a state either. It’s why Democrats are hesitant to take any really strong action on giving a path to citizenship for illegals. They’re terrified of being abandoned by middle class whites. And ever since the ascent of Trump, they’re more terrified than ever. 
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Or maybe middle and working class voters throughout the country-not in urban areas-view Washington as a broken place with borken people.  They don't want to give more power to an administrative class that already has too much power and wields it poorly.  

See, you can come to a conclusion that doesn't require racism as the catalyst.  If you wanted to.

 
unckeyherb said:
Or maybe middle and working class voters throughout the country-not in urban areas-view Washington as a broken place with borken people.  They don't want to give more power to an administrative class that already has too much power and wields it poorly.  

See, you can come to a conclusion that doesn't require racism as the catalyst.  If you wanted to.
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Not sure how many of the borken people actually live in DC.

 
JIslander said:
Not sure how many of the borken people actually live in DC.
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Not sure it matters.  Perception is reality when it comes to this kind of thing and the idea of making DC a state is about as popular as loading up the SC.  Outside of liberal thinktanks and the beltway its just not popular.

 
unckeyherb said:
Or maybe middle and working class voters throughout the country-not in urban areas-view Washington as a broken place with borken people.  They don't want to give more power to an administrative class that already has too much power and wields it poorly.  

See, you can come to a conclusion that doesn't require racism as the catalyst.  If you wanted to.
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But that’s not what Democratic strategists are thinking. They’re afraid of the racial response. 

 
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JIslander said:
pretty broad brush there -- yet similarly cobbled together adjectives for the current R's would be a bit more  rightfully derogatory 
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Well, I'm speaking about one of two major political parties, not a specific person, so yeah, its a broad brush.  Do you disagree that this viewpoint is one that is shared by many Americans?  Do you disagree that when presented with the suggestion that race is not part of the equation for being against DC statehood, and the response is, "But that’s not what Democratic strategists are thinking. They’re afraid of the racial response" that this pretty accurately depicts my description?  

 
unckeyherb said:
Well, I'm speaking about one of two major political parties, not a specific person, so yeah, its a broad brush.  Do you disagree that this viewpoint is one that is shared by many Americans?  Do you disagree that when presented with the suggestion that race is not part of the equation for being against DC statehood, and the response is, "But that’s not what Democratic strategists are thinking. They’re afraid of the racial response" that this pretty accurately depicts my description?  
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I hate using the word "unpack", but I'm not seeing the connection of DC statehood (and being scared of racial response) to your specific descriptive view of the Democratic party.

 
unckeyherb said:
Which is why a growing number of people view the Democrats as condescending, judgemental, divisive and completely lacking in self-awareness, self-reflection or an understanding of reality.
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1. I don’t believe that Democratic strategists are particularly representative of the Democratic Party. They are far too cowardly, judgmental, and cautious to represent anybody but a small number of people. But they are the ones who make the key decisions. 
 

2. I don’t believe that your contemptuous comments here are particularly representative of a “growing number of people.” Democrats are on the outs right now, per the polls, because of concerns over inflation and Covid. When issues change Democrats will be right back on the winning side again. And then on the losing side again. Back and forth. But even so, we continue on a path towards a more progressive and woke society. Sometimes we slow down on that path, but never stop, and never reverse direction. The entire history of the Republican Party and conservative movement over the last 50 years or so can be summed up as nothing more than a temporary brake from time to time on the gravitation pull of liberalism. 

 
JIslander said:
I hate using the word "unpack", but I'm not seeing the connection of DC statehood (and being scared of racial response) to your specific descriptive view of the Democratic party.
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Tim brought race into the DC-statehood convo by stating the following:

They’re scared that white middle class voters will resent the creation of a new state that is largely occupied by poor people of color. That’s why Puerto Rico isn’t a state either. It’s why Democrats are hesitant to take any really strong action on giving a path to citizenship for illegals. 
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I then made a case that it had nothing to do with race but rather a general dislike/distrust of the political establishment throughout middle America.

He responded with:

But that’s not what Democratic strategists are thinking. They’re afraid of the racial response
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The fact that the democratic party doesn't do any self-reflection as to WHY most working class Americans have this distrust and instead judgementally and condescendingly pivot to white working class racism as the real worry, was the catalyst for my description.

 
timschochet said:
1. I don’t believe that Democratic strategists are particularly representative of the Democratic Party. They are far too cowardly, judgmental, and cautious to represent anybody but a small number of people. But they are the ones who make the key decisions. 
 

2. I don’t believe that your contemptuous comments here are particularly representative of a “growing number of people.” Democrats are on the outs right now, per the polls, because of concerns over inflation and Covid. When issues change Democrats will be right back on the winning side again. And then on the losing side again. Back and forth. But even so, we continue on a path towards a more progressive and woke society. Sometimes we slow down on that path, but never stop, and never reverse direction. The entire history of the Republican Party and conservative movement over the last 50 years or so can be summed up as nothing more than a temporary brake from time to time on the gravitation pull of liberalism. 
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1. The decisions are what matter, right?  If the strategists are the ones steering the message, then they ARE the democratic party in the eyes of the layperson.

2.  I agree that feelings ebb and flow.  Recent polling shows that more adults believe the Dems are more of a threat than GOP.  I suspect that this same poll taken 3-4 years ago would have been flipped.  Hence my statement that a growing number of Americans feel this way.

 
unckeyherb said:
Tim brought race into the DC-statehood convo by stating the following:

I then made a case that it had nothing to do with race but rather a general dislike/distrust of the political establishment throughout middle America.

He responded with:

The fact that the democratic party doesn't do any self-reflection as to WHY most working class Americans have this distrust and instead judgementally and condescendingly pivot to white working class racism as the real worry, was the catalyst for my description.
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Ok thanks -- I see  -- and tend to agree with you -- I'm sure racism is part of it, but agree not the whole picture.    But still feel you were a little over zealous with the descriptors 🙃

 
timschochet said:
1. Stop pretending you guys can negotiate with Joe Manchin. You can’t. and he knows it. So agree to whatever he wants. This is the best you’re going to get for now. 
 
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Still not too late for this. I think Manchin is still open to a deal on his terms. Biden and the Dems need to accept whatever he offers. Stop negotiating; there’s nothing to negotiate. 

 
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