Going into the preseason, it looked like DJ would be playing the WLB with Miller at the SLB and either Irving or Mays at MLB. Norton's recent EOTG article indicates that Williams is now slated to play on the strong side. Just how bad does this hurt William's value? Is there a chance he returns to the weak side? Was the basis of Norton's article the most recent preseason game? As noted in other threads, it seems like a lot is still up in the air due to the shortened preseason activities... might we see DJ moved around this preseason? Just trying to get more information here as this is a big change from earlier projections at FBG and if he stays at the strong side, I'm going to be looking to trade him. Thanks in advance for any insight...
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Denver LBs (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter emilysam
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I don't say this often, but I am 99% certain John is wrong.
Unless he's seen something that I've missed this offseason or in the first preseason game, Miller is the SLB and will drop down in a three point stance on passing downs. Williams will remain the WLB. He finally returned to practice today and I'd expect him to resume his every-down role immediately.
I'll ask John to drop in here and flesh out his thoughts.
Unless he's seen something that I've missed this offseason or in the first preseason game, Miller is the SLB and will drop down in a three point stance on passing downs. Williams will remain the WLB. He finally returned to practice today and I'd expect him to resume his every-down role immediately.
I'll ask John to drop in here and flesh out his thoughts.
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:X Yes, John is wrong. I actually wrote the AFC West article before watching the Broncos preseason game and was going on what I had seen previously. When Jene pinged me about this thread I pulled up my DVR of the game and checked it out. Miller is indeed working mostly on the strong side. I'll be throwing a correction on this into the next EOTG, and updating my rankings/projections accordingly. Sorry for the incorrect info.
this in a nutshell is why I love this site
Redraft, Mays is the guy to have. Irving might come on towards the end of the season but right now, with John Fox history deferring to veterans, he's a better dynasty stash. Also, correct me if im wrong Jean, but whoever wins the MLB job won't be a 3-down backer (DJ and Von Miller will be), so not too much upside here anyway
I really think Irving will come away with that job at some point. With the missed off-season I just don't know how soon. I don't see Mays being an every down guys but Irving could eventually be that. The next couple of preseason game will hopefully give us a better picture.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I'm interested in two Bronco rookie defenders, SSLB Von Miller and FS Rahim Moore.
Oh and Miller is listed atop the official Bronco depth chart to confirm what everyone has stated.
My link
SLB - Von Miller
FS - Rahim Moore
At the time of the draft, after John Fox had been hired and he announced his plans to scrap the 3-4 it was obvious that the team had been performing poorly against the run and they were in dire need of a NT type of defensive tackle to man the middle of the D. Looking at the rookie draft pool the choice appeared to be DT Marcel Darious so I couldn't believe when they took LB Von Miller. My thoughts echoed those of John Norton because I thought the plan was to move 3-4 LB Elvis Dumervill up to WS 4-3 DE and then overload that edge with monsterous WS 4-3 LB Von Miller.
I could picture that but at the same time I saw two huge holes, SS DE because I simply don't like Ayers and at NT because I had no idea how they were going to fill that gaping maw in the middle of their defense.
Well they not only were able to come up with NT Ty Warren but were also able to come away with NT/DT Brodrick Bunkley to more than fill the hole at NT but I was still wondering how in the heck they could go into a season with Robert Ayers as their starting SS DE and you have provided the answer.
First I was wrong in assuming that Miller would be the WS 4-3 LB he is going to be on the SS, and I have a question that I will pose after covering some points, and DJ Williams will more to the WS (Williams just seemed to be a more natural fit on the SS in my mind but now I get the plan).
Secondly the plan is to move Von Miller up on the LOS to become a pass rushing 4-3 SS DE with Dumervill providing backside pressure, a pretty good plan IMHO.
Two questions per Von Miller's role:
1. Just curious, who would you say covers the TE? If Von Miller moves down into a three-point pass rushing stance who covers the TE? Just curious since I don't see anyone who fits that role on their D.
2. My understanding of the role of a 4-3 SS LB breaks down into their ability to cover the TE but Miller will play a hybrid if he drops into a pass rushing role so now Miller suddenly becomes VERY INTERESTING as an IDP sleeper. Had he simply been moved to the strong side I would have felt his ISP potential wouldn't amount to much, in my league, but now he is interesting. My question is how does this work? Who moves over the TE, what happens with Ayers in those situations? Does he rotate off the feild with a cover LB or S or does he slide inside with Miller applying outside pressure. Basically I want to know what sort of numbers you see from Miller in that alignment but I'm skeptical that the plan is sound because I don't know how it will play out.
The other Bronco defensive rookie I'm interested in is FS Rahim Moore. It is obvious that Dawkins will move up into the box and in those types of situations,for IDP fantasy purposes, the FS gets delegated to droping back and being a cover-safety thereby their IDP potential is diminished.
Dawkins can't play forever and I would imagine Moore will be relegated to a role of a cover safety so I wouldn't expect much of him this year but going back to the above question about who covers the TE, it would seem that Dawkins would be a better fit to cover TEs, so what role do you see Moore playing this year and how would you see him developing in the future knowing that Dawkins is at the end of his career?
Oh and Miller is listed atop the official Bronco depth chart to confirm what everyone has stated.
My link
SLB - Von Miller
FS - Rahim Moore
At the time of the draft, after John Fox had been hired and he announced his plans to scrap the 3-4 it was obvious that the team had been performing poorly against the run and they were in dire need of a NT type of defensive tackle to man the middle of the D. Looking at the rookie draft pool the choice appeared to be DT Marcel Darious so I couldn't believe when they took LB Von Miller. My thoughts echoed those of John Norton because I thought the plan was to move 3-4 LB Elvis Dumervill up to WS 4-3 DE and then overload that edge with monsterous WS 4-3 LB Von Miller.
I could picture that but at the same time I saw two huge holes, SS DE because I simply don't like Ayers and at NT because I had no idea how they were going to fill that gaping maw in the middle of their defense.
Well they not only were able to come up with NT Ty Warren but were also able to come away with NT/DT Brodrick Bunkley to more than fill the hole at NT but I was still wondering how in the heck they could go into a season with Robert Ayers as their starting SS DE and you have provided the answer.
First I was wrong in assuming that Miller would be the WS 4-3 LB he is going to be on the SS, and I have a question that I will pose after covering some points, and DJ Williams will more to the WS (Williams just seemed to be a more natural fit on the SS in my mind but now I get the plan).
Secondly the plan is to move Von Miller up on the LOS to become a pass rushing 4-3 SS DE with Dumervill providing backside pressure, a pretty good plan IMHO.
Two questions per Von Miller's role:
1. Just curious, who would you say covers the TE? If Von Miller moves down into a three-point pass rushing stance who covers the TE? Just curious since I don't see anyone who fits that role on their D.
2. My understanding of the role of a 4-3 SS LB breaks down into their ability to cover the TE but Miller will play a hybrid if he drops into a pass rushing role so now Miller suddenly becomes VERY INTERESTING as an IDP sleeper. Had he simply been moved to the strong side I would have felt his ISP potential wouldn't amount to much, in my league, but now he is interesting. My question is how does this work? Who moves over the TE, what happens with Ayers in those situations? Does he rotate off the feild with a cover LB or S or does he slide inside with Miller applying outside pressure. Basically I want to know what sort of numbers you see from Miller in that alignment but I'm skeptical that the plan is sound because I don't know how it will play out.
The other Bronco defensive rookie I'm interested in is FS Rahim Moore. It is obvious that Dawkins will move up into the box and in those types of situations,for IDP fantasy purposes, the FS gets delegated to droping back and being a cover-safety thereby their IDP potential is diminished.
Dawkins can't play forever and I would imagine Moore will be relegated to a role of a cover safety so I wouldn't expect much of him this year but going back to the above question about who covers the TE, it would seem that Dawkins would be a better fit to cover TEs, so what role do you see Moore playing this year and how would you see him developing in the future knowing that Dawkins is at the end of his career?
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Camp observers have been very impressed with Miller when he's been asked to drop in man coverage on a TE. He looked very fluid to me at linebacker last weekend in limited snaps, including in coverage. He'll need to improve to have an impact at the point of attack, but he wasn't afraid to stick his nose in there -- again small number of snaps viewed. He was in a nine technique on nickel downs, well outside whomever was on the end of the line (OT or TE). Ayers bumped inside to the 3-technique in the nickel.The Fox/Allen scheme is probably going to be a coverage hybrid. Miller will be asked to cover TE or RB man-to-man, but there will be plenty of zone drops (mostly Cover-2, some fire zone work, too, though he'll be most often a pass rusher on zone blitz calls). If he struggles in man, he'll get safety help over the top. We'll have three regular season weeks to see how he'll fare, before two possibly very juicy matchups v GB and SD.If Miller blossoms, I think there's 70+ solo, 8 sack potential (LB3++) with the relative weakness at CB, S and MLB. I'm not sure there's a great comp for his situation -- Karlos Dansby (earlier in his career) doesn't fit, Brian Cushing or old school Anthony Simmons didn't get the nickel DE snaps, and none of those that have gotten those nickel DE snaps have looked as fluid as base linebackers. My first impressions of Miller were very good and I added him to the back end of my top 60. If he follows up with two more similar performances, I'll struggle to keep him out of my top 40.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Lammey said that Von Miller was covering like a blanket, not just for small areas but that he was covering lots of ground that no other Bronco LB could cover and that he could even cover slot WRs but the stated plan, even the one that you have mentioned, is to have him drop into a three-point stance and rush the passer.I'm sure he's great at covering but he can't cover anyone if he's rushing the passer so I'm still confused how this will play out.Good info on Ayers slding inside when Miller lines up outside to rush the passer and that indicates that an interior D-Lineman will rotate out and 'someone' will rotate in, either a DB or cover LB.Primarily I'm interested in the pass rush package and how that will work because I feel Miller's sack numbers could be in the double digets if they find someone who can cover the TE but as you've said and Lammey has noted, Miller is their best cover LB and he can't rush and cover so I'm still confused how this will pan out and if Miller has the upside of being a double diget sack artest. I think he can 'IF' they have someone who can cover the TE.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Maybe I'm missing the point of the discussion, but there will be two distinct roles for Miller this year.Miller will either rush or cover on any non-rushing play against the base defense as the SLB. He'll never be in a three point stance as a DE in the base defense. Fox and Allen are fairly aggressive, so I'd expect Miller to blitz (run or pass) at times from the SLB position. But he'll be expected to drop in coverage most often in those situations, somewhere between 70-90% of the time on base defensive downs where the offense doesn't run the ball.In subpackages, he'll play on the LOS and almost always rush the passer, predominantly from a three point stance, with a rare zone blitz drop into coverage. I still think Kevin Vickerson will have a role in some packages, but it was Dumervil-Ayers-Thomas-Miller on the four man line in the couple of nickel snaps during the first preseason game. Whether it's a six DB, one LB package or five DB, two LB package depends on how Joe Mays/Nate Irving develop or if the Broncos feel they'll get better run defense/coverage from a hybrid DB (McBath/Carter/etc).
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
That was what I was after and you nailed it. Thanks!'Jene Bramel said:
hootie
Footballguy
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
It won't affect either. Woodyard was playing in nickel packages with Williams out earlier in the preseason; he'll take over Williams' every-down duties. Woodyard wouldn't hold up over 16 games, but he's been very effective in short bursts of playing time.
Gary Davenport
Footballguy
If I was an IDP owner that's light at LB (be it because of super deep rosters, whatever) Mays and/or Woodyard are both guys I'd be targeting as spot starts Week 1. That Denver D was already looking soft against the run, and I have a feeling the late game on Monday Night two weeks from today will feature a whole lot of Oakland cramming the ball down Denver's throat.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
Mays might get some play in nickel situations for the 1st couple weeks with Williams going down, but I think he's a 2-down guy assuming all the LBs are healthy. He did look improved last night--especially against the run. He was very active and IIRC, was even in on a sack. That said, I think he will hold Irving off for most of the year. Irving got off to a slow start with the injury and hasn't made a big splash as far as I can tell.Miller is as advertised. He is incredibly fast off the edge and looks solid against the run and in coverage. If your league gives a relatively high bonus for sacks, he would be a guy to target.Dennis Allen's scheme has been very aggressive through 3 preseason games. A lot of SS in the box,and a good mix of blitzes from the LB spots as well as the secondary. Denver may give up a few big plays this year as a result of the aggressiveness, but I think there will be more big play opportunities for IDP purposes across the board than in recent years.
UnderRated
Footballguy
In a dynasty league is it stupid to draft Von Miller as the number 1 LB in a rookie draft? Do you think he can be a LB1 or LB 2 in the future coming up? Or can he even be counted on as high as a LB3 this year???
I know he got picked 2nd overall so there is obviously something there just don't wanna reach too far for this guy! I've heard nothing but good things about this guy.
What do u guys think?
I know he got picked 2nd overall so there is obviously something there just don't wanna reach too far for this guy! I've heard nothing but good things about this guy.
What do u guys think?
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Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
IMO it depends on how your league handles sacks. He's not going to rack up huge tackle numbers, but double digit sacks seems like a very realistic projection. Use someone like DeMarcus Ware as a comp, if he's a number 1 or number 2 LB in your league that's Miller's upside.
UnderRated
Footballguy
Ware is around 5 with Harrison at 1. Timmons and Mayo were 2 and 3... Even with Dumervil there u think Miller can ball like that?
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
He looks Derrick Thomas-esque rushing the passer.
corpcow
Footballguy
I think Miller has looked very good in the portion of the games I saw, but more importantly I think having Dumervil helps him a lot. Thinka bout it this way - sacks are a relatively scarce stat - the league leaders are usually averaging 1 per game at the most. (My old DL coach used to say, just get one a game and you're an all-american. One sack shouldn't be hard right?).
Note I'm not saying they come evenly, just that it's not like rushing or receiving where you have 100-400 per game, or even TDs.
And, unlike rushing or receiving yards, pressure from one defensive player helps another because it reduces double teams, etc. There's a reason you often see the Steelers and so on racking up sacks - not because there's too few to go around, but because talent and pressure across the board creates more opportunities for everyone.
