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***Detroit Tigers thread: 1st pick yet again, this is not fun*** (3 Viewers)

Doctor Detroit said:
Jesus Christ K-Rod, Hosmer couldn't hit a homer off me. 
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The great thing is he gets the 'win' for that performance.  How many games has K-Rod entered with the lead and left us behind?  Not going through the game logs but I am going with a majority of them.  You can't have a pitcher who the expected outcome is a multiple run inning.  

 
Speaking of. Read an article that Wilson was striking out batters at 45.5% which would have been 3rd to Betances and Andrew Miller last year.

*Probably has gone down a bit since the article was written.

 
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Bojang0301 said:
Speaking of. Read an article that Wilson was striking out batters at 45.5% which would have been 3rd to Betances and Andrew Miller last year.

*Probably has gone down a bit since the article was written.
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It's 40.2 now, still damn good.  On that note, we'd be better off using Wilson like the Indians use Miller.  Maybe we can get Bud Norris cheaply in July?

 
Bojang0301 said:
I don't expect them to sell now. What I expect is the mediocrity to continue and on July 1 they sell. This is not a good team. They have no CF, they have no bullpen, SP 3-5 hold your breath on and Miggy, VMart and Kinsler are playing reflective of their age. This team goes the way of Upton which is streaky AF and career .500 at best.
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This is rich

Don't feed the troll, but allow me to parrot exactly what he's been saying.

:lmao:

 
Doctor Detroit said:
I honestly should start doing what @Raider Nation does with Francesa with HUGE and valenti. Valenti freely admits he's paid to entertain and he's shtick. On the other hand Huge is only right by accident with baseball, at least 10 errors in fact in a five minute segment. Real and fake Tigers trades is an hours worth of daily content hearing him butcher all the Hispanic names and the positions they do or don't play. Lol 
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Huge's segments with his "insider" Dan Elve are comical. Elve hasn't been in a MLB front office since 1981 and has no more inside information than Joe Blow.  Plus if a person played a drinking game and took a shot every time Huge said bullpen they would be under the table in two minutes. 

 
Tigers finally jettisoned Valverde in mid-June maybe the will do the same with K-Rod.  Problem is they have no viable bullpen replacement for him anyway. 

 
Detroit has a tendency to make subpar pitchers look like aces.  They seem to hit better against better pitchers.  

 
jon_mx said:
Smyly will be a great #4, very similar to Fister. Smyly is what gave the Tigers the luxury of being able to deal a starting pitcher the quality of Fister. But it will take some incredible developments for the Tigers to ever be considered getting the better end of that deal.
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And it's official, Dombrowski won the Ray/Fister trade.  Too bad he didn't stick with his gut and whoever in the scouting department identified Ray, because he's pretty ####### awesome.  He pitches in a tough pitchers park too, but he's almost unhittable on the road.  3ERA, five wins, 84ks in 69 IP, etc.  #2 starter, Doug Fister is not pitching in baseball after putting up a combined .2 WAR over the past two years.  I'd like to know which scout identified Ray as a future star when the pundit scouts all missed the boat on Ray. 

Fister would have helped in 2014 I guess, but they got swept with Max, JV, and Price as their top three guys that year.  Fister wouldn't have helped when it really counted and right now we could have JV, Fulmer, Ray, Norris, and JZimm.  Norris is gonna be really good IMO, and too early to give up on JZimm who I think will end up giving the team some quality years. 

And I'm not calling jon out here, the Fister trade :hophead: is the worst conversation this fan base has had since we opined on how Bobby Higginson should be in the Hall of Fame.  :mellow:

 
Doctor Detroit said:
And it's official, Dombrowski won the Ray/Fister trade.  Too bad he didn't stick with his gut and whoever in the scouting department identified Ray, because he's pretty ####### awesome.  He pitches in a tough pitchers park too, but he's almost unhittable on the road.  3ERA, five wins, 84ks in 69 IP, etc.  #2 starter, Doug Fister is not pitching in baseball after putting up a combined .2 WAR over the past two years.  I'd like to know which scout identified Ray as a future star when the pundit scouts all missed the boat on Ray. 

Fister would have helped in 2014 I guess, but they got swept with Max, JV, and Price as their top three guys that year.  Fister wouldn't have helped when it really counted and right now we could have JV, Fulmer, Ray, Norris, and JZimm.  Norris is gonna be really good IMO, and too early to give up on JZimm who I think will end up giving the team some quality years. 

And I'm not calling jon out here, the Fister trade :hophead: is the worst conversation this fan base has had since we opined on how Bobby Higginson should be in the Hall of Fame.  :mellow:
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Fister pitched well for the Tigers.   Seems to me you were a big fan of the Sanchez deal.  

 
jon_mx said:
Fister pitched well for the Tigers.   Seems to me you were a big fan of the Sanchez deal.  
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What Sanchez deal?  You mean re-signing him after he was nails in the playoffs in 2012 and then finished 4th in the Cy Young in 2013 after he signed?  Yeah, I'm still completely fine with that.  They got a 9+ WAR the first three seasons, if Sanchez could have just ate innings one of his last two years he'd have been more than worth it.  And he was awesome when this team was on the cusp of a title. 

 
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Anibal Sanchez can be summed up pretty easily

First 3 years and 400 innings a FIP under 3 (including leading the league in 2013) and 21 homers allowed.

Next three years and 330 innings, a FIP around 5 and 68 homers allowed.  He went from being one of the best pitchers in preventing XBH and homers, to the absolute worst.  It's quite incredible.  But overall Sanchez was a guy the Tigers got their money's worth out of IMO, it just ended really badly.  All he had to do was eat innings and not be terrible, and he's not done that the past 2.33 years. 

 
Pretty sweet loss. JV throws 7 innings of 1 run ball and they lose. Meanwhile Nick fights for a place below the Mendoza line in the two hole and Justin Upton has become Melvin seemingly overnight.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
He ####ed with his mechanics, so ridiculous.  JV still has premium stuff, don't listen to the haters...he'll be fine. 
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I know it was the Royals but great start last night. I'm very encouraged by the one walk.  Hopefully he's worked out the mechanical issues and turns his season around.

 
fred_1_15301 said:
I know it was the Royals but great start last night. I'm very encouraged by the one walk.  Hopefully he's worked out the mechanical issues and turns his season around.
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:thumbup: should increase his trade value!

 
Doctor Detroit said:
They aren't trading JV, almost a zero chance of that.

Matt Boyd needs to be sent to Toledo, bring up Farmer or really anyone. 
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I was joking. They do need to sell off pieces this year. It has been  great 12 years, but I don't want a team that wins 75 to 85 every year and has no real chance of winning anything. Anyone not named Fulmer should be up for trade.

Obviously some guys you trade if you get any offer. Other guys you listen, but it needs to be a solid return.  

 
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msudaisy26 said:
I was joking. They do need to sell off pieces this year. It has been  great 12 years, but I don't want a team that wins 75 to 85 every year and has no real chance of winning anything. Anyone not named Fulmer should be up for trade.

Obviously some guys you trade if you get any offer. Other guys you listen, but it needs to be a solid return.  
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I wasn't sure, Valenti and Greco would take a bag of beans for Cabrera at this point.  I think you can trade JD regardless of record if the right offer comes in, same with Kinsler.  Norris is as valuable as Fulmer, those two aren't going anywhere.  Castellanos should be extended now while he's suffering through this bad luck, his hit data is all positive and he's going to be a good player for awhile. 

I actually think VMart will have some trade value to an AL team and as a PH option. 

Upton is Upton, I can't believe people are actually complaining about him again after what they saw last year. 

Cabrera and JV are the franchise and both are still All-Star players, and probably will be going forward.  I don't want to go back to post Trammel/Whitaker and pre IRod/Magglio, even if they are bad they need guys to go watch.  Tony Clark and Jeff Weaver were the face of this franchise for years, that can't happen again. 

 
Friend of a friend story.   I am at golf last night and we are talking and my buddy says he knows a personal trainer who works with the Tigers.

Said that Miggys back that he injured in the baseball classic is still bothering him really bad.  After hearing that and watching him swing the last few weeks it looks like it could be true. 

Take this with a grain of salt as it could be BS but it does makes sense.

 
Da Guru said:
Friend of a friend story.   I am at golf last night and we are talking and my buddy says he knows a personal trainer who works with the Tigers.

Said that Miggys back that he injured in the baseball classic is still bothering him really bad.  After hearing that and watching him swing the last few weeks it looks like it could be true. 

Take this with a grain of salt as it could be BS but it does makes sense.
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I believe that, Miggy is the best right-handed hitter I've ever seen.  He's not going to suck when he's 40, he just isn't. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
I believe that, Miggy is the best right-handed hitter I've ever seen.  He's not going to suck when he's 40, he just isn't. 
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After hearing that and watching him just stick out the bat and dink it to RF I believe something is wrong.  When was the last time he drove a ball into the gaps like his hitting history?  Miggy has always been a double machine

 
Alex Wilson is just a guy by the numbers, but I love his preparation and competitiveness.  I expect him to be terrible most nights and he rarely is terrible, making him a favorite of mine. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Nice job bullpen after that Boyd stinker.  4-7 roadtrip, three games out of first!!!!!
 
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Three loses and they have the worst record in the AL, see what I did there? To act like thinking about selling is silly is, well, silly. 

Vmart has very little worth to this team anymore and I don't think there is a snowflakes chance in hell JD resigns either due to money constraints or due to his own desires. They can't take on salary else it would put them squarely in the luxury tax threshold which would also mean that tendering JD would only get a 4th. Avila walked us into this horrid scenario two offseasons ago.

I absolutely believe Miggy's back is bad. It's something that has been in the back of my mind since the start of the season. It's probably something that can't be fixed within the season. That's really bad news and yet he's still a .270 hitter and able to crush it on any given night. I just wish they would do something proactive to get him out of the field.

 
And just so I clarify, since I was half asleep when I wrote that, I think VMart is blocking Miggy from being a DH which needs to happen sooner rather then later. VMart has been producing lately but is still dead weight on the base paths. My quip about them taking on salary is that if they turn things around it's going to be near impossible to take on salary due to luxury tax constraints. I'm also not rooting against them, I just believe that this team has hit its wall and hoping for the rest of the division is fruitless as is putting off whatever assets they may be able to obtain for older players. Especially if they can alieviate salary woes brought on by the Upton and JZimm deals. If the year starts to turn around maybe I'll keep suggesting a sell off as to not jinx it.

JUp has a mild quad strain as if the injuries weren't killing them as well.

 
Bojang0301 said:
Three loses and they have the worst record in the AL, see what I did there? To act like thinking about selling is silly is, well, silly. 

Vmart has very little worth to this team anymore and I don't think there is a snowflakes chance in hell JD resigns either due to money constraints or due to his own desires. They can't take on salary else it would put them squarely in the luxury tax threshold which would also mean that tendering JD would only get a 4th. Avila walked us into this horrid scenario two offseasons ago.

I absolutely believe Miggy's back is bad. It's something that has been in the back of my mind since the start of the season. It's probably something that can't be fixed within the season. That's really bad news and yet he's still a .270 hitter and able to crush it on any given night. I just wish they would do something proactive to get him out of the field.
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Serious question.  When is the last time a team completely sold in late May/early June?  There may be instances but it's very rare.  Why wouldn't you want them to just wait until late July before unloading everyone?  See where they are at that point and then make a decision.

 
fred_1_15301 said:
Serious question.  When is the last time a team completely sold in late May/early June?  There may be instances but it's very rare.  Why wouldn't you want them to just wait until late July before unloading everyone?  See where they are at that point and then make a decision.
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I do want them to wait until July. I just think it's inevitable given the way this team is constructed and the lack of flexibility to make acquisitions to improve the team. At some point in time the spending was going to tie their hands. The new tax and the death of Mr. I has probably made that come to fruition.

 
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Bojang0301 said:
I do want them to wait until July. I just think it's inevitable given the way this team is constructed and the lack of flexibility to make acquisitions to improve the team. At some point in time the spending was going to tie their hands. The new tax and the death of Mr. I has probably made that come to fruition.
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$30 mil comes off the books next year just from Lowe, Sanchez, Pelfrey, and Rodriguez.  Call me naive, but I think this cap on spending is just a one-time thing.  Ensuring staying under the luxury tax is probably here to stay, but I don't blame them for enacting that policy.  It's good business.

The only player I'm really interested in moving right now is Victor.  This scenario is why I didn't like his contract.  It'd be a salary dump and we'd have to eat a good portion of the contract, but I think total output would benefit with Miggy at DH and X at 1B.  Short term that could just be some combo of Avila, Hicks, and Aducci.  In 18 (or even later in 17) it opens up a spot for Stewart and flexibility w/the DH - rotating J Up, Miggy, JD?, and Stewart, or just a regular swinging a hot bat but needing a day off in the field.  No I'm not giving up on JD re-signing.  There's over $40 mil to spend this offseason, including JD's current salary.  Until they say they're cutting payroll, and not just ensuring staying under the luxury tax thresh hold, I'm expecting that $ to be spent.  Why not on JD?

Anyway, Victor, the hard part will be finding a willing buyer.  Right now all Al can really do is sit on his hands and hope an opportunity develops before Miggy gets seriously hurt.  Moving anyone else (that others may be interested in) probably hurts both 2017 and 2018.  Always keep a listening ear, but I wouldn't actively try to move anyone else.

 
Dan Lambskin said:
Some of that $ comes off the books, but I think some other contracts yearly commitment go up.   Yep $2M to Verlander and $6M to Zimmerman.   Still paying Prince $6M a year too but I guess that's accounted for.  Guessing some of those arbitration eligible guys get a raise too

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JPcuv1u63tSKuyOZs30f0BVlsormd1p5fC39fSr_xqs/pubhtml
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This is why I think if JD gets re-signed then that's it.  I also think we have enough young guys that are nearing being ready to justify doing that.  It's too early for them now, but developmental clocks should start to complete beginning next year.  Hopefully with a steady stream to follow.  It was going to take time post Dom and I don't think many have accounted for that.  Probably because of what he thankfully did the week before getting axed.  Without those moves then this team is in the tank right now instead of quazi-purgatory.  Anyway, while a lot of the focus has been on the bad major league contracts a pipeline is quietly developing in the minors.  Here's hoping the focus going forward is on what's going on in the minors instead of what can we do via trade and free agency.  If he's willing I think re-upping JD and mostly ignoring everything else would be a good first step.

 
Bojang0301 said:
And just so I clarify, since I was half asleep when I wrote that, I think VMart is blocking Miggy from being a DH which needs to happen sooner rather then later. VMart has been producing lately but is still dead weight on the base paths. My quip about them taking on salary is that if they turn things around it's going to be near impossible to take on salary due to luxury tax constraints. I'm also not rooting against them, I just believe that this team has hit its wall and hoping for the rest of the division is fruitless as is putting off whatever assets they may be able to obtain for older players. Especially if they can alieviate salary woes brought on by the Upton and JZimm deals. If the year starts to turn around maybe I'll keep suggesting a sell off as to not jinx it.

JUp has a mild quad strain as if the injuries weren't killing them as well.
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From what I have heard in the past in interviews and even Ausmus had said that Miggy does not want to be a full time DH.  Miggy would be so bored sitting in the dugout and not being able to chat and grab ### with all the opposing baserunners.

 
Da Guru said:
From what I have heard in the past in interviews and even Ausmus had said that Miggy does not want to be a full time DH.  Miggy would be so bored sitting in the dugout and not being able to chat and grab ### with all the opposing baserunners.
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I don't think the plan would be for him to transition to full time DH.  While he's unhealthy though?  Yeah, he needs to DH.

 
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