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***Detroit Tigers thread: 1st pick yet again, this is not fun*** (1 Viewer)

Doctor Detroit said:
Having Upton hit 2nd might be the best idea at the beginning of the season, he provides some speed and if he takes on the approach of taking pitches hitting in front of Cabrera he might not have those long streaks of terribleness.  Avila could also hit 2nd when he plays, he takes a lot of walks.  Having guys on base in front of Miggy/VMart/JD is the goal. 

With CF I'm more worried about the defense.  Tigers are above average offensively at every position but 3B, C, CF, and SS.  3B production looks to get better but right now the league is full of really good players there.  Iglesias and McCann are both above average defensively, even if they can't hit all that well.  But both had key hits at times last year and I think McCann in particular is just gonna get better.  No idea what is going on in CF but if the player is above average defensively, I can live with a speculative bat.  Jones is gonna hit for some power I know, but he's a big swing and miss guy and no idea how he's gonna handle CF.  But he seems like a good athlete so we'll see. 
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Granted ST just started but Brad seems to have already dismissed batting Upton second.  For Pete's sake they better not put Iglesias there.  

 
skillz said:
Granted ST just started but Brad seems to have already dismissed batting Upton second.  For Pete's sake they better not put Iglesias there.  
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Yeah no, let's not do that.  He gives away sooooooo many at bats.  IMO he has trouble with concentrating, that's why he's so God Damn awful on the bases. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Having Upton hit 2nd might be the best idea at the beginning of the season, he provides some speed and if he takes on the approach of taking pitches hitting in front of Cabrera he might not have those long streaks of terribleness.  Avila could also hit 2nd when he plays, he takes a lot of walks.  Having guys on base in front of Miggy/VMart/JD is the goal. 

With CF I'm more worried about the defense.  Tigers are above average offensively at every position but 3B, C, CF, and SS.  3B production looks to get better but right now the league is full of really good players there.  Iglesias and McCann are both above average defensively, even if they can't hit all that well.  But both had key hits at times last year and I think McCann in particular is just gonna get better.  No idea what is going on in CF but if the player is above average defensively, I can live with a speculative bat.  Jones is gonna hit for some power I know, but he's a big swing and miss guy and no idea how he's gonna handle CF.  But he seems like a good athlete so we'll see. 
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I agree with most of this, but I want Avila nowhere near the top of the lineup.  

 
Da Guru said:
By buddy is in Lakeland and says Victor is running around like a spring chicken. Taking balls at 1B.,,doing running and sliding drills.

The only guy that concerns me is Zimmerman...since that $$$ could have kept JD and I know that is hindsight.  I took Z in the 25th

rd of our roto league so hope he rebounds.
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Victor rips up his knee playing with his kid. Someone remind him hes not 25 and get him in solitary confinement until opening day. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Honestly VMART should probably hit second but he's gonna clog up the basepaths. 
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Ya, I've had the same thought. Honestly screw it, that's why they have JD and JUp. Put those two behind Miggy and use VMarts discipline and superior ability as a hitter over guys that don't get on base.

 
The guy I think they want to be their #2 hitter soon is Christin Stewart but he needs to work a little on the K rate.  I think he starts at Erie but should be in Toledo by July, maybe with the big club if he's getting at bats.  His on base skills are off the chart, OBP 115 points higher than his average in 700 minor league at bats.  He scuffled a bit at Erie but AA is the biggest step in the minors, so that's not odd. 

Think he needs at least a few months there to start but if he can have a slugging over .500 which he has done at every level, and get his K rate under 25% he's gonna be ready pretty soon.  This is the kind of bat you might be able to call up in September that actually makes a difference. 

 
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I'll get a little sentimental here. 

I watched the Jim Leyland MLB special again and I just think that had the Tigers won the WS in 2006, or really ever with Leyland, that would have been bigger to him than his win with the Marlins.  Leyland was born and bred in the Tigers organization, passed over for Sparky, rose to being one of the best managers in baseball, and then leads "his team" to a title.

They had no business being that good in 2006.  That team just wasn't that great.  Rogers, a rookie Verlander, Granderson, Magglio, Pudge, and really a whole lot of guys that were a part of a lot of 90 loss teams we suffered through for more than a decade.  However, that Tigers team was magical and they lost to an inferior team in the WS.  Granderson slipping in the OF in game 4, all the relievers throwing the ball over first, and just dumb luck.  I think Leyland should have pitched the Gambler in game 5, because he was unbeatable that playoff.  I also forget why Rogers didn't pitch in game one in lieu of JV, I forget the back story there. 

In 2012 that stupid layoff killed the Tigers, wish they would have got to play the Cardinals again that year.  Giants were better in that series, maybe better overall.  Game 2 of the ALCS in 2013, 8th inning, two outs, Benoit v Big Papi, that's the worst moment I've ever had as a sports fan and nothing comes close.  They should have won games 3 and six too but had they won game 2 they win that series for sure and I don't think there is any question they crush the Cards.  Leyland probably should have used Coke vs Ortiz but Benoit had been pretty damn good that year, I'm not mad at him for that. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
In 2012 that stupid layoff killed the Tigers, wish they would have got to play the Cardinals again that year.  
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The layoff killed them in 2006 too.  They had just swept the A's coming off that Magglio HR and then had to wait around for a week while the NLCS went 7 games.  

Best part for me concerning Leyland and the 2006 season was when he tore into the team in late April/early May for not giving full effort.  That turned the season into a "here we go again" moment to a season that ended up being very special despite them crapping the bed in the WS. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
I'll get a little sentimental here. 

I watched the Jim Leyland MLB special again and I just think that had the Tigers won the WS in 2006, or really ever with Leyland, that would have been bigger to him than his win with the Marlins.  Leyland was born and bred in the Tigers organization, passed over for Sparky, rose to being one of the best managers in baseball, and then leads "his team" to a title.

They had no business being that good in 2006.  That team just wasn't that great.  Rogers, a rookie Verlander, Granderson, Magglio, Pudge, and really a whole lot of guys that were a part of a lot of 90 loss teams we suffered through for more than a decade.  However, that Tigers team was magical and they lost to an inferior team in the WS.  Granderson slipping in the OF in game 4, all the relievers throwing the ball over first, and just dumb luck.  I think Leyland should have pitched the Gambler in game 5, because he was unbeatable that playoff.  I also forget why Rogers didn't pitch in game one in lieu of JV, I forget the back story there. 

In 2012 that stupid layoff killed the Tigers, wish they would have got to play the Cardinals again that year.  Giants were better in that series, maybe better overall.  Game 2 of the ALCS in 2013, 8th inning, two outs, Benoit v Big Papi, that's the worst moment I've ever had as a sports fan and nothing comes close.  They should have won games 3 and six too but had they won game 2 they win that series for sure and I don't think there is any question they crush the Cards.  Leyland probably should have used Coke vs Ortiz but Benoit had been pretty damn good that year, I'm not mad at him for that. 
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I still remember Card fans with signs that said "Hit the ball to the pitcher"  Inge had at least 3 errors in 5 games as well.

Justin Verlander, Todd Jones, Joel Zumaya, Fernando Rodney and Verlander again made costly errors in each game of the World Series, leading to seven unearned runs. That includes 6 of the last 12 runs the Cardinals scored in the final three games, all of which they won. 

 
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Leroy Hoard said:
At one time it was 4th, then 3rd. I think 2nd is a good idea, more yearly AB on average each spot you move up in the order.
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With the team as it stands now such a lineup would look something like this:

Ian - Miggy - J.D. - Victor - Upton - Nick - CF - C - Iggy

I tried to not only get the better hitters extra ABs, but also somewhat break up the slugs on the base paths.

 
There is some logic in putting someone between Miggy and VMart, but Ausmus is not even gonna consider batting Miggy second. 

On a different topic I hope they can find room on the roster for Machado.  It would be a mistake to loose him. 

 
Leroy Hoard said:
With the team as it stands now such a lineup would look something like this:

Ian - Miggy - J.D. - Victor - Upton - Nick - CF - C - Iggy

I tried to not only get the better hitters extra ABs, but also somewhat break up the slugs on the base paths.
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JD probably strikes out too much to hit third IMO. 

 
I am pretty sure the lineup will be: 

kinsler

upton

miggy

vmart

jd

nick

Ausmus may toy with moving Nick to the two spot when Upton struggles, but that is the lineup.  Pretty status quo.  

 
Gotta figure the only question left position player wise is CF. Jones is said to require more Toledo time. Mikie Mahtook, Collins & Gose with 2 of 3 making it?

 
I really don't want Sanchez or Pelfrey on the roster opening day. So far they are working hard to make that happen. Avila should have ate their contracts this offseason in a trade instead of leaving any temption to keep either of them around.

 
Another lights out performance by Pelfrey.  Four straight singles, an out, and then a double in paving the way to the TIgers seventh loss in seven days. 

 
jon_mx said:
Another lights out performance by Pelfrey.  Four straight singles, an out, and then a double in paving the way to the TIgers seventh loss in seven days. 
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Time to just eat some cash.   Did not understand this signing when it happened and still don`t. 

 
jon_mx said:
It was the bargain price of just $16 million that was the attraction.  How could you pass that up?
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Why two years?  Why 16 when Pelfrey would have taken one for 5 or  2 for 8 million?    There is a good chance he would have been out of baseball had Avila not loved him.

 
Leroy Hoard said:
Seems like a good time to just go with the younger guys on opening day.
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At least Avila has signaled this by saying he will take the best pitchers north regardless of contract situation.  We will just have to see if he follows through.  I was hopeful Sanchez would be able to turn things around to some extent this year.  I don't know if it's a mental thing with him at this point, a physical thing, or both.  He has really fallen off a cliff though. 

 
skillz said:
At least Avila has signaled this by saying he will take the best pitchers north regardless of contract situation.  We will just have to see if he follows through.  I was hopeful Sanchez would be able to turn things around to some extent this year.  I don't know if it's a mental thing with him at this point, a physical thing, or both.  He has really fallen off a cliff though. 
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The way Pelfrey and Sanchez are pitching it makes the decision easy. Both of them are showing nothing.

 
Da Guru said:
Why two years?  Why 16 when Pelfrey would have taken one for 5 or  2 for 8 million?    
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No he wouldn't have. Starting pitching is ridiculously expensive and $8 million for an innings eater is the going rate.  See Volquez, Morton, and Cashner. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
No he wouldn't have. Starting pitching is ridiculously expensive and $8 million for an innings eater is the going rate.  See Volquez, Morton, and Cashner. 
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  Just seems like many guys can eat innings as long as you are good with a 1.60 WHIP and giving up 3-4 runs every 5-6 innings. Buck Farmer can put up those kind of numbers with more potential upside.  Anyway there is a good chance both will probably be gone when the club heads north.

 
Da Guru said:
Why two years?  Why 16 when Pelfrey would have taken one for 5 or  2 for 8 million?    There is a good chance he would have been out of baseball had Avila not loved him.
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The key is this.  The salary market is what it is.  The two years is the problem.  Would have been better if we had just signed Pelfrey to a one year innings eater deal like Brad Penny a few years ago.  We could have had the money off the books and possibly kept Maybin another year.  Oh well.  I am just glad the young pitchers have stepped up to take spots in the rotation at a cheap cost. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
No he wouldn't have. Starting pitching is ridiculously expensive and $8 million for an innings eater is the going rate.  See Volquez, Morton, and Cashner. 
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Why you defend that line of trope is beyond me. Rumor was 1 year before the deal was in place. In any case he's here and he probably won't be soon and neither will his money. Joe Nathan take 2.

Edit: I think I jumped the gun here. You were defending the money given in a one year, I agree that even mediocre starters are well paid. Someone else already suggested the years problem. No way a guy with Pelfrey's history should get more then a 1 year. 

 
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In other news, I'm calling this being Norris' break out year and for him to be better then Fulmer. With JZimm healthy I think 1 through 4 in the rotation can be just as good as the Indians as much of a tall order that is to ask.

 
Bojang0301 said:
In other news, I'm calling this being Norris' break out year and for him to be better then Fulmer. With JZimm healthy I think 1 through 4 in the rotation can be just as good as the Indians as much of a tall order that is to ask.
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Norris has the higher upside for sure IMO. Maybe not #1 upside but he has a Cole Hamels thing to him. It's all about health, if he's healthy he's better than Fulmer long-term, but both look to be very good. I think scouts, fans, and fantasy players are sleeping on Norris though, he's got breakout potential. 

 
Leroy Hoard said:
News breakdown of final position battles:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2017/03/08/tigers-mid-camp-options-still-open/98922232/
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I would really like to see the Tigers go with Jones as the starter in CF with Collins as their primary backup.  Mahtook is just not doing anything offensively and I don't trust Gose on numerous levels. 

I think Machado is definitely the correct option for the last spot.  Moya has good power, but is really not that good of a hitter and is a huge liability on defense. 

Boyd is really the only good choice for the fifth starter spot.  I see about $24 million swirling down the toilet. 

The final two relievers, I would prefer to see Ryan and Jimenez.  I think Jimenez is ready to dominate in the pros.  They will probably go with Lowe though, but I would still rather see Saupold if Jimenez is not the choice. 

"Today for me was really good compared to the first outing.”  -  Pelfrey, after giving up 6 hits (2HRs) and 4 runs over three innings. 

 
I don't like the idea of Jones starting simply because the other options suck.  Get Jones ready, whenever that is - then start him.

I'll be shocked and quite pissed off if Jimenez doesn't make the team.

 
MAC_32 said:
I don't like the idea of Jones starting simply because the other options suck.  Get Jones ready, whenever that is - then start him.

I'll be shocked and quite pissed off if Jimenez doesn't make the team.
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It will be interesting how the final breakdown breaks down. AA has promised to go with the best 25, even if it means optioning out those who are out of options. Boyd seems like the #5 guy anyways.

 
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Leroy Hoard said:
It will be interesting how the final breakdown breaks down. AA has promised to go with the best 25, even if it means optioning out those who are out of options. Boyd seems like the #5 guy anyways.
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I imagine they'll want a lid on Boyd's innings, so starting him in the pen is probably the right move.  Let April/early May'ish shake itself out then watch Boyd come out the other side, hopefully as the #5 and not something higher.

 
I don't think Jimenez will open season in Detroit but he'll be up soon enough. 

Machado definitely best choice as the 25th man. 

 
Your AA affiliate in Erie will have Alternative Facts Night on August 25th to celebrate their 2016 Eastern League championship. :lmao:  This is awesome; since I'm about 90 minutes away, I may make the roadie to take this one in.

On Alternative Facts Night, the SeaWolves will celebrate facts that the team knows to be true – even if some media outlets may dispute them.  The first 1,000 fans in attendance will receive a 2016 replica championship ring celebrating the SeaWolves’ 2016 Eastern League title. While it was a tough decision to decide which championship to honor, the team will celebrate its most recent one.

“Alternative Facts have become a part of popular culture in 2017,” SeaWolves Team President Greg Coleman said. “We plan to interject truthful hyperbole into all aspects of the game on this night from our giveaway to the between innings fun. It’s going to be huge.”

SeaWolves fans are tremendous fans, the best fans. No one has better fans, and a complete and total sellout is expected on this night. While the capacity of UPMC Park is 6,000, 1.2 million fans are expected to attend.

The SeaWolves’ opponent on this night may dispute the team’s 2016 title run. Very unfair. It is up to the fans, who are tremendous fans by the way, to decide.

On Alternative Facts Night, one fact that will be undeniably true is that the SeaWolves will raise funds to benefit the Partnership for Erie’s Public Schools. Proceeds from in-game fundraising efforts will be donated to the local education foundation.
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I love the minors. :lol:  

 
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