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DFS advertising (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Quez
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chauncey
Footballguy
These limits seem almost laughably nonrestrictive until you understand how top players operate. Analysis from Rotogrinders conducted for Bloomberg shows that the top 100 ranked players enter 330 winning lineups per day, and the top 10 players combine to win an average of 873 times daily. The remaining field of approximately 20,000 players tracked by Rotogrinders wins just 13 times per day, on average.
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
Well it seems that our law makers will need to step in and put a stop to this - and they should, under these kind of results.These limits seem almost laughably nonrestrictive until you understand how top players operate. Analysis from Rotogrinders conducted for Bloomberg shows that the top 100 ranked players enter 330 winning lineups per day, and the top 10 players combine to win an average of 873 times daily. The remaining field of approximately 20,000 players tracked by Rotogrinders wins just 13 times per day, on average.
Its like a nationwide 3 card monte with Jethro Clampett - not all of the Clampetts, just Jethro.
bagger
Footballguy
i have thought the same thing, as this gets bigger and it gets out what a cluster this is someone is going to put the smack down on this.From a financial markets point of view this is just another shining example of companies that are insanely overvalued in the private equity markets as a "unicorn". The fact that these scams are worth over $1B is mind boggling when they turn nonprofit and are cash flow negative.Binky The Doormat said:Well it seems that our law makers will need to step in and put a stop to this - and they should, under these kind of results.chauncey said:These limits seem almost laughably nonrestrictive until you understand how top players operate. Analysis from Rotogrinders conducted for Bloomberg shows that the top 100 ranked players enter 330 winning lineups per day, and the top 10 players combine to win an average of 873 times daily. The remaining field of approximately 20,000 players tracked by Rotogrinders wins just 13 times per day, on average.
Its like a nationwide 3 card monte with Jethro Clampett - not all of the Clampetts, just Jethro.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Calling fantasy football "gambling" used to earn you a timeout around here.
Quez
Footballguy
I would worry that daily fantasy could get kids into gambling. On one end you have the NFL promoting & hosting fantasy contest to kids. Meanwhile, when the kids are watching the NFL games they are bombarded with DFS commercials. Commercials the NFL is profiting from showing.
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Insoxicated
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
DFS is the new Quibids.
Quez
Footballguy
His dad's eyes are gonna light up when his gambling addicted son starts using his credit card numbers.
Fantasysports1
Footballguy
You have to be 18 to play DFS. Unless you consider people 18-22 range kids.
Softballguy
Footballguy
Cousin Sal @TheCousinSal Sep 6
Does anyone know if the companies FanDuel and/or Draft Kings still exist?
Does anyone know if the companies FanDuel and/or Draft Kings still exist?
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Good article... I'll pass on playing the economics nerd who uses data/computer programs to set thousands of lineups and receive handouts from the morons dumb enough to donate to him.
Week 1 must be like Christmas for this guy. Eventually these businesses will be sharks circling sharks and passing money back and forth, as the casual user realizes he has no chance.
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General Malaise
Footballguy
Did it again last night. Combo of NFL Network + FanDuel seems to be the sticking agent. I don't have this happen on any other channels (maybe ESPN 2?) with any other shows or commercials. Very odd and very annoying.
17seconds
root of all aliai
That article makes me want to quit after I used up my 50 beginners contests.
With poker, I feel I have the constitution to learn as much as possible see how far I can go. Since DFS is so much about keeping up on the news in the last hour, weather, etc... There's no way I'm getting near that level, ever. No interest in being that connected to news.
With poker, I feel I have the constitution to learn as much as possible see how far I can go. Since DFS is so much about keeping up on the news in the last hour, weather, etc... There's no way I'm getting near that level, ever. No interest in being that connected to news.
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I understand it's daunting but it's still fun to play. Besides, you can always pick head to head contests or pick one of the larger tourneys that DON'T allow multiple entries.
Honestly, imo, it's not nearly as bad as the online poker nerds who had the software running as they played that accumulated stats on all of there opponents. That made online poker super lame.
17seconds
root of all aliai
I was one of those guys. I was 10 tabling with holdem manager.
DFS seems worse (at least as the article portrayed) because not only do you need knowledge, but you also need to be current up to the minute. There are days of the week where you have to put your life on hold to stay on top. Poker doesn't require that. You reach a level of knowledge and can go with it until the tendencies in the games change, which is usually only a couple times a year.
I view the need to keep up on things as a good thing. Like most things in life, the more time, research, preparation, etc. spent will result in a better result. If you are playing DFS, you want your opponents to set their line-up, go to church all morning, take the kids out for ice cream and not change their line-up only to find out later they started a guy who pulled his hammy in pregame warmups....which happened 30 minutes before kickoff. There's nothing unethical or unfair about being more prepared than your opponent in regards to easily accessible knowledge.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
True, they need to take those DFS commercials off and go back to advertising beer more often. Wait,....
BoltBacker
Footballguy
(Shrug)Binky The Doormat said:Well it seems that our law makers will need to step in and put a stop to this - and they should, under these kind of results.chauncey said:These limits seem almost laughably nonrestrictive until you understand how top players operate. Analysis from Rotogrinders conducted for Bloomberg shows that the top 100 ranked players enter 330 winning lineups per day, and the top 10 players combine to win an average of 873 times daily. The remaining field of approximately 20,000 players tracked by Rotogrinders wins just 13 times per day, on average.
Its like a nationwide 3 card monte with Jethro Clampett - not all of the Clampetts, just Jethro.
Seems to me those odds aren't any worse than playing the lottery. Wake me up when law makers start protecting us from the lottery.
Even if that did happen it would just speak to how rich and powerful native American casinos have become and how much they can spend on lobbyists to protect us from gambling. If DFS is the wild west the only thing that can kill those cowboys off are the indians.
snellman
Footballguy
(Shrug)Binky The Doormat said:Well it seems that our law makers will need to step in and put a stop to this - and they should, under these kind of results.chauncey said:These limits seem almost laughably nonrestrictive until you understand how top players operate. Analysis from Rotogrinders conducted for Bloomberg shows that the top 100 ranked players enter 330 winning lineups per day, and the top 10 players combine to win an average of 873 times daily. The remaining field of approximately 20,000 players tracked by Rotogrinders wins just 13 times per day, on average.
Its like a nationwide 3 card monte with Jethro Clampett - not all of the Clampetts, just Jethro.
Seems to me those odds aren't any worse than playing the lottery. Wake me up when law makers start protecting us from the lottery.
You can't legally play fantasy football in Iowa but you can sure play the state lottery and go to the state casinos.
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
How are those contests that don't allow multiple entries labeled? Also - how hard do you think it would be for people to manage large amounts of different identities to get around that? Imagine it would be hard - just don't know how hard.
I keep up with NFL news very well, but I know basically nothing about any college football players. Doesn't matter. I still believe I have a big advantage in CFB DFS. I simply use Devin Knotts's projections with the interactive value charts and seem to create a bunch of very strong lineups with every little effort -- because Devin keeps up with all the news. ("Seem to" because this is only my second week of CFB DFS ever. My results so far have been great but completely meaningless over such a small sample. Time will tell if I'll have good results over the long run. But I believe I will because the projections and tools that I have access to should give me a huge edge over the average player.)
Anyone who knows nothing about NFL players can do the same thing by using projections by Dodds, Bloom, and me. In three minutes, I could probably teach my mom how to create NFL cash-game lineups using the interactive value charts that are exactly strong as my own cash-game lineups. (There's more of an art to creating tournament lineups, so it would take a while to teach her to do that using the interactive value charts -- but she could instantly do it using the Daily Crusher App instead.)
That's one of the huge differences between DFS and poker. It takes a lot of time and effort to become a winning poker player -- you can't simply pay $32/year to have a winning player make all of your decisions for you. In DFS, you can.
I don't mean this to sound like a Footballguys advertisement. But I do seriously expect to have a higher ROI in CFB than in NFL this year even though I know absolutely nothing about any college players and don't intend to. You don't really have to keep up on the news, weather, etc. if you use somebody else's projections that have all of that stuff built into them. (Good projections are much harder to come by for college players than for NFL players, so I think Devin's projections give me a bigger edge in CFB than my own do in NFL.)
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They are labeled clearly if they allow multiple entries or not. I believe it's an orange symbol that shows if the tourney is a multientry one.
Yes, I think it would be very difficult managing multiple identities/accounts. They are tied to real names, addresses, tax id numbers, etc.
Fantasysports1
Footballguy
The amount of information out there is reducing the edge a skilled player has. On RG, there are numerous videos. There are incentives with projections, cash plays, etc. The pros know who are the top plays.
I don't know CFB besides the basics but I am not sure how much of an edge I have even going through the short videos and reading the RG Grinddown breakdown of all games. In NBA, having access to the incentives on RG, I felt I barely had any edge because everyone knows the top cash plays, the top players, the chalk cheap injury replacements and more. NBA is tougher than CFB I would think because good information is not as easily accessible.
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I don't think that would be helpful for me at all. I don't need to know anything about the players or games because Devin knows that stuff, and I'm using his projections, not mine.
snellman
Footballguy
Would love to know how you walk your way through a lineup. NFL is a breeze because of course I am up on the players, but I tried doing a CFB lineup with the lineup builder and seem to be falling way short.
I click on whatever game slate I'm building a lineup for.
I click on H-Value to sort by that.
I scroll through the different positions to see which players are in first (at H-Value) by the widest margins at their position.
For FanDuel, I just click on the single best player by that criterion. Then click on "Knotts" to have the rest of the lineup filled in for me.
For DraftKings, I click on the three best players instead of just one. Then click on "Knotts."
That should build a good cash-game lineup. If I want a second lineup (or third, etc.), instead of clicking on whoever I did before, I click on at least one player that hasn't been a member of any previous lineups.
For tournament lineups, I largely do the same thing, but sometimes I'll specifically look for a QB-WR stack (using the "Top 20 Stacks" feature). At DraftKings, where I can start two QBs, I sometimes go for a double-stack (two QB-WR stacks from the same game -- which could be epic if that game goes into overtime, given college overtime rules).
It takes me just a few seconds to generate each lineup. Obviously, variance will be huge in tournaments, but I do expect CFB to be profitable this season even though I don't know anything about any of the players.
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Joe T
Footballguy
mquinnjr
Footballguy
This story, combined with Mystery Achiever's comment that 1.3% of players make 90% of the market make this feel like the sports equivalent of the Ashley Madison.com business model, where the bots siphon money from the un-enlightened.
It is for that reason, that I am out on DFS.
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
This isn't sustainable ...is it? I just can't imagine the kind of volume they need continue to lose. They are gonna have to find a way to cater to the masses vs. the sharks they are feeding right now.mquinnjr said:
If I were an investor I would be really concerned about the business'es sustainability.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
I probably sound like the uptight snob that likes a band and when that band becomes popular I start to turn my nose up at people who say they love that band.
Just even a few years ago it was hard to have anyone in the media take FF serious let alone discuss strategy and leagues.
Now? I can't get through a sports show without them discussing their draft or FF rooster. Even a non sports show will have some mention of a FF team.
FF has officially jumped the shark.
I wonder how many slots FD and DK will take up during the Superbowl?
Just even a few years ago it was hard to have anyone in the media take FF serious let alone discuss strategy and leagues.
Now? I can't get through a sports show without them discussing their draft or FF rooster. Even a non sports show will have some mention of a FF team.
FF has officially jumped the shark.
I wonder how many slots FD and DK will take up during the Superbowl?
pollardsvision
Footballguy
It might end up being a problem, but really, it's gambling. Do most people make money betting against the spread, playing the lotto, or on slots?
Some have an addiction, but most view the losses as a cost of entertainment they are willing to accept (maybe a distinction without a difference).
Not to say it might not hurt, but certainly other forms of gambling get along fine with the guppies feeding themselves to sharks. Millions work hard all week and don't mind blowing some cash to make Sundays more fun. God knows it's better than sitting down to watch a single NFL game on CBS or FOX with a million commercials and no skin in any of the games.
Also, I'm sure it's a tiny portion of the consumers, but the private games are what I enjoy. Get 10 buddies to play, know you're paying 10% for someone to manage the money for the winners, and have fun. I doubt the private games could sustain these sites, but it's a big draw for some.
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Zegras11
Footballguy
just an fyi, you can't have a DFS event for pay based on the outcome of one event.
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
I used to listen all day when working, but I switched to MLB and NFL networks. You still get the ads there but most of the content is DFS free. There are signs of MLB network having a few DraftKings shows unfortunately.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
You can't do anything but lose by using your projections here. Just being honest.
Jeremy
Footballguy
The constant stream of ads is really starting to get to me, and it's taking up more and more space on fantasy football podcasts and articles. I was listening to ESPN's Fantasy Focus podcast earlier and Matthew Berry was talking about all the vitriol he got from his "love/hate" article this week. This year he started including DFS values and tips in addition to his normal comments and people were not happy. Apparently let him know about it rudely on twitter, calling him a sellout and worse things. He was talking about shutting the article down it was so bad.
I'm not one to be a social media "tough guy", but as a podcast junkie I get the frustration. Even my pro wrestling podcasts have them now. Stone Cold Steve Austin is telling me all the money I can win.
You can't escape it. At this point I think I'd rather watch jewelry commercials than listen to another Draftkings or Fanduel ad.
I'm not one to be a social media "tough guy", but as a podcast junkie I get the frustration. Even my pro wrestling podcasts have them now. Stone Cold Steve Austin is telling me all the money I can win.
You can't escape it. At this point I think I'd rather watch jewelry commercials than listen to another Draftkings or Fanduel ad.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Our country and economy are in horrible shape. I can't believe people have the money to spend on stuff like this.
How do you figure? That goes against the empirical results that have so far been obtained...
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IC FBGCav
Footballguy
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
tom22406
Footballguy
Back when I still played fantasy I did the daily grind on a site called Daily Joust that was nowhere near as bad(shark infested)as DraftKings and a few of the others.Made a profit but it was a ton of work and playing the right sports was crucial for me as I used my own projections and used various sites for updates news,weather etc.I knew who to avoid and who to take advantage of and i turned $250 into a little over $6K before cashing out.You have to stay within your limits and try not to chase or get greedy.
I did have access to the projections that were done here and they weren't too bad but I always went with what I had unless I didn't have a good feel for that week.In DFS you are either the shark or just bait at the higher levels so stick to the small limits first and see how it goes.
I did have access to the projections that were done here and they weren't too bad but I always went with what I had unless I didn't have a good feel for that week.In DFS you are either the shark or just bait at the higher levels so stick to the small limits first and see how it goes.
