Did the Dolphins do themselves a disservice... (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

They obviously worked on this in training camp. This isn't something you try out for the first time in a September practice.

So why save it for the Pats? It might not have helped in Arizona in week 2, but they were in a tight game with the Jets in the opening week. I dunno... it kinda seems like trying to win a battle and ignoring the war (or whatever other analogy you want to come up with...)

Do I have a point or not?

 

[Daisuke Matsuzaka]

this point has been raised on the local radio shows around here. it could be valid, but it could also be that they saw something with NE that was different than ARI and NYJ that made this approach especially dangerous. who knows.

 

[Boston]

My guess is by using it in game three they totally caught the Pats with their pants down. The Pats probably looked at the game film from the first two weeks and prepared for what they saw there. Miami threw a totally different look at the Pats and it was very obvious that they weren't ready for it and were so thrown off by it they could not make the proper adjustments either.

 

[the rover]

Brown wasn't 100% week 1, so that might have been a factor. The other thing is that from the interview I read, this formation wasn't meant to be run 5 or 6 times in a single game. It's just that the Pats didn't adjust to it, so they kept running it.

 

[Raider Nation]

My guess is by using it in game three they totally caught the Pats with their pants down. The Pats probably looked at the game film from the first two weeks and prepared for what they saw there. Miami threw a totally different look at the Pats and it was very obvious that they weren't ready for it and were so thrown off by it they could not make the proper adjustments either.

My point exactly, Boston.Is the idea to humiliate the Pats, or to win as many games as possible using a dynamic formation which gives defenses fits?

 

[Raider Nation]

Brown wasn't 100% week 1, so that might have been a factor. The other thing is that from the interview I read, this formation wasn't meant to be run 5 or 6 times in a single game. It's just that the Pats didn't adjust to it, so they kept running it.

Now that makes sense.

 

[Boston]

My guess is by using it in game three they totally caught the Pats with their pants down. The Pats probably looked at the game film from the first two weeks and prepared for what they saw there. Miami threw a totally different look at the Pats and it was very obvious that they weren't ready for it and were so thrown off by it they could not make the proper adjustments either.

My point exactly, Boston.Is the idea to humiliate the Pats, or to win as many games as possible using a dynamic formation which gives defenses fits?

I think you're missing my point...by waiting until three they were playing a team that thought they had a book on what they do offensively by looking at film of the first two weeks (especially a team like the Pats that's usually doesn't leave a stone unturned and with a QB in Pennington they are very familiar with). When they came out with this formation I'm sure the Pats were like the computer in Star Trek yelling out "does not compute" because there had been zero reason to see this coming. The Pats were totally blindsided by it and it could not have worked out better for Miami.

 

[=Smackdown=]

Brown wasn't 100% week 1, so that might have been a factor. The other thing is that from the interview I read, this formation wasn't meant to be run 5 or 6 times in a single game. It's just that the Pats didn't adjust to it, so they kept running it.

Now that makes sense.

Yep - they started working on it in TC but Ronnie's thumb injury delayed the process

 

[Trey]

As a Dolphins' fan, I can't imagine a better time to use it on.

 

[Bri]

link in other thread says it was discussed on the plane after week 2's game

The Dolphins wanted to try the “Wildcat” offense during the pre-season, but running back Ronnie Brown’s sprained right thumb delayed those plans.Sunday in New England, the timing was perfect for a trick formation, and the result was a stunning 38-13 victory.The idea was reborn eight days ago, as the Dolphins flew home from a discouraging loss at Arizona. Coach Tony Sparano called quarterbacks coach David Lee to the front of the plane to discuss ways to beat a team that had won 21 consecutive regular-season games.Lee ran the exotic formation last year when he was offensive coordinator at the University of Arkansas. In Fayetteville he called it the “Wild Hog” and used running back Darren McFadden to create havoc by lining up as a quarterback in the shotgun.

 

[Daisuke Matsuzaka]

Brown wasn't 100% week 1, so that might have been a factor. The other thing is that from the interview I read, this formation wasn't meant to be run 5 or 6 times in a single game. It's just that the Pats didn't adjust to it, so they kept running it.

Now that makes sense.

well, not really. doesn't explain why they didn't use it earlier.and from what i read, the patriots adjusted to it, it's just that the dolphins did something differently each time. there was a different wrinkle every time they ran it...so i'm guessing it was scripted to go 4+ times, to anticipate how the patriots might adjust to it, and then to switch it up to take advantage of that adjustment. like after brown gets a couple carries up the middle, i'm sure they knew the patriots were going to somehow adjust for that that would leave open the pass attempt by brown. etc.eta: the injury to brown seems like the most logical reason, imo.

 

[phowler13]

from what I have read they did more than just line up Brown at qb. They switched their line around with Long moving to the right side to overload that side etc. Also saw it stated that there are different running angles created by running this formation. Will look for the link...

 

[HellToupee]

nice trickery with the wildcat formation but it had zero to do with missed tackles and horrendous OL play that killed NE sunday not to mention Pennington picking them apart with short stuff

 

[T Bell]

Disservice? It cost them the Super Bowl!!!!!1

 

[kaa]

That was probably Miami's super bowl. And when you are in the super bowl, why save anything in the playbook?

 

[big0mar]

They worked on it in camp. Ronnie hurt his hand, so they stopped working on it. I assume that as he got better, they were able to practice it more.

The execution of the plays shows that its something they practiced a lot.

 

[Lash]

was it his throwing thumb?

 

[urbanhack]

What else were they going to save it for?

 

[Big Daddy Kane]

Miami gave New England every chance to stop the formation...it was the courteous thing to do.

 

[Raider Nation]

I just read in today's Providence Journal that Belichick said they had prepared for the formation during the week. Something about seeing Leon Washington doing it with the Jets, and they knew Brown was capable of similar things. Holy cow. Imagine what the score would have been if they didn't prepare...

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

My guess is by using it in game three they totally caught the Pats with their pants down. The Pats probably looked at the game film from the first two weeks and prepared for what they saw there. Miami threw a totally different look at the Pats and it was very obvious that they weren't ready for it and were so thrown off by it they could not make the proper adjustments either.

My point exactly, Boston.Is the idea to humiliate the Pats, or to win as many games as possible using a dynamic formation which gives defenses fits?

I think you're giving too much credit to this dynamic formation. Yes, it worked and caught the Pats off guard but the reason they saved it for the Pats is because no matter when you used it, then you've used it and now teams know you'll have it and practice stopping it.It is not difficult to stop if you prepare for it. This isn't something that was invented by the Dolphins this past week. It's a gimmick offense that's actually developed for high school and college teams that don't have a lot of talent but can fool teams with misdirection.I also don't think you have to work on these plays as long as you think. I've implemented similar plays into an 8th grade offense within 2 weeks. Our practices were just 3 to 5 and you go home and come back the next day. These guys spend hours a day on practicing and looking at film etc....so I'd imagine they'd pick it up pretty quick. I would not blink an eye if the head coach of Miami said we had a couple plays we've used in the preseason and then when some guys got healthy, we decided to add in a few more off the same formation and we practiced it just in the past week.

 

[menobrown]

I think you're giving too much credit to this dynamic formation. Yes, it worked and caught the Pats off guard but the reason they saved it for the Pats is because no matter when you used it, then you've used it and now teams know you'll have it and practice stopping it.

It is not difficult to stop if you prepare for it. This isn't something that was invented by the Dolphins this past week. It's a gimmick offense that's actually developed for high school and college teams that don't have a lot of talent but can fool teams with misdirection.

I can't really agree with much of this. I'm not saying it is going to work on a consistent basis on the NFL level because it's hard for me to envision that being the case but two points you bring up I don't really agree with.The first is when you say it's not difficult to stop if you prepare for it. SEC teams never really figured out Arkansas. I know the NFL is different and I've already said I don't think this can be a consistent week to week success story with this formation but I've not seen proof yet it's so easy to stop when you prepare for it. I think a lot of it will have to do with the opposition. This should work out a little better on slower defenses which would describe NE.

The second thing you said I don't agree with is when you said it's a gimmick offense developed for teams without talent. Arkansas obviously had a ton of RB talent. I do think it's a bit of a gimmick offense, don't get me wrong, but it's a gimmick offense developed for teams with two good RB's not teams with inferior talent.

 

[Raider Nation]

Miami moved the ball easily out of its base set, but truly embarrassed the Pats with a gimmicky formation that put Pennington out wide while running back Ronnie Brown took direct snaps from center. The Dolphins deployed that set six times, producing 121 yards and four TDs on those plays. "We didn't have any answers for it," said defensive end Richard Seymour. "We played hard, but we just didn't get the job done."

It was bad enough that New England failed to make any adjustments during the course of the game to stop Miami's trick formation. It was worse to learn that the Pats had actually prepared for that look before the game.

"We worked against it last week," said Belichick. "That's the formation the Jets used last week with Leon Washington and he's thrown out of it and run out of it. We worked on it a week ago."

The Pats will need a lot more work to get things straightened out on defense, where they failed to produce a single turnover, sack or even a quarterback hit.

http://www.milforddailynews.com/sports/pro...-gets-defensive

 

[menobrown]

Raider Nation the real question you need to ask yourself is why your Raiders have not broke out this formation more than the one play I've seen it. They ran this formation a good deal in training camp with Mcfadden at QB and with their complete lack of a passing attack I just can't figure out what they are waiting for.

 

[Raider Nation]

Raider Nation the real question you need to ask yourself is why your Raiders have not broke out this formation more than the one play I've seen it. They ran this formation a good deal in training camp with Mcfadden at QB and with their complete lack of a passing attack I just can't figure out what they are waiting for.

Your question presumes that the Raiders do sensible, prudent things like other organizations do.

 

[menobrown]

Raider Nation the real question you need to ask yourself is why your Raiders have not broke out this formation more than the one play I've seen it. They ran this formation a good deal in training camp with Mcfadden at QB and with their complete lack of a passing attack I just can't figure out what they are waiting for.

Your question presumes that the Raiders do sensible, prudent things like other organizations do.

I know Al has lost it but I think the offense right now is Kiffin's call so this is on him. In that respect I do actually think Kiffin is fairly sensible in working around the talent he is dealt. I know Raider beat writer Jerry Mcdonald commented in the past week why the Raiders did not allow him to write about some of the exotic formations they used on offense if they never plan to use it.

 

[drew726]

I don't understand the trickery. Chad Pennington is lined up as a WR. Who the hell thinks he's getting passed to? Ronnie is running the damn ball. The fact is Ronnie was way too fast for a very old defense. The Pat's with Tom Brady usually wins the time of possession battle which keeps the Pats def off the field to rest. What do you expect from the oldest defense in the NFL to do when they can't rest? Once is chance, twice is coincidence, and a third time is a pattern.

 

[Carver Lee]

The second thing you said I don't agree with is when you said it's a gimmick offense developed for teams without talent. Arkansas obviously had a ton of RB talent. I do think it's a bit of a gimmick offense, don't get me wrong, but it's a gimmick offense developed for teams with two good RB's not teams with inferior talent.

Not saying anyone could achieve better results than the Dolphins did Sunday, but there are quite a few combos in this league that could wreak havoc with this style... McFadden/Bush, Tomlinson/Sproles, Jones/Barber, Peterson/Taylor, Jones-Drew/Taylor/Matt Jones, Young/Johnson, ..

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I think they did the right thing. It's the kind of gadget you're only going to "surprise" the league with one time. So why not use it against the team that went undefeated* last year (while you almost went winless) when they're already vulnerable?

Miami went to New England and humiliated them in their own building. For a team that will likely have a losing record, that's something to hang your hat on.

 

[the rover]

Raider Nation the real question you need to ask yourself is why your Raiders have not broke out this formation more than the one play I've seen it. They ran this formation a good deal in training camp with Mcfadden at QB and with their complete lack of a passing attack I just can't figure out what they are waiting for.

Your question presumes that the Raiders do sensible, prudent things like other organizations do.

 

[gregjcross]

My guess is by using it in game three they totally caught the Pats with their pants down. The Pats probably looked at the game film from the first two weeks and prepared for what they saw there. Miami threw a totally different look at the Pats and it was very obvious that they weren't ready for it and were so thrown off by it they could not make the proper adjustments either.

My point exactly, Boston.Is the idea to humiliate the Pats, or to win as many games as possible using a dynamic formation which gives defenses fits?

I think you're missing my point...by waiting until three they were playing a team that thought they had a book on what they do offensively by looking at film of the first two weeks (especially a team like the Pats that's usually doesn't leave a stone unturned and with a QB in Pennington they are very familiar with). When they came out with this formation I'm sure the Pats were like the computer in Star Trek yelling out "does not compute" because there had been zero reason to see this coming. The Pats were totally blindsided by it and it could not have worked out better for Miami.

Star Trek Analogy even though that was the wrong show. I think you meant "lost in space"

 

[the rover]

My guess is by using it in game three they totally caught the Pats with their pants down. The Pats probably looked at the game film from the first two weeks and prepared for what they saw there. Miami threw a totally different look at the Pats and it was very obvious that they weren't ready for it and were so thrown off by it they could not make the proper adjustments either.

My point exactly, Boston.Is the idea to humiliate the Pats, or to win as many games as possible using a dynamic formation which gives defenses fits?

I think you're missing my point...by waiting until three they were playing a team that thought they had a book on what they do offensively by looking at film of the first two weeks (especially a team like the Pats that's usually doesn't leave a stone unturned and with a QB in Pennington they are very familiar with). When they came out with this formation I'm sure the Pats were like the computer in Star Trek yelling out "does not compute" because there had been zero reason to see this coming. The Pats were totally blindsided by it and it could not have worked out better for Miami.

Star Trek Analogy even though that was the wrong show. I think you meant "lost in space"

I think it was the fembots in the Harry Mudd episode.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

My guess is by using it in game three they totally caught the Pats with their pants down. The Pats probably looked at the game film from the first two weeks and prepared for what they saw there. Miami threw a totally different look at the Pats and it was very obvious that they weren't ready for it and were so thrown off by it they could not make the proper adjustments either.

My point exactly, Boston.Is the idea to humiliate the Pats, or to win as many games as possible using a dynamic formation which gives defenses fits?

I think you're missing my point...by waiting until three they were playing a team that thought they had a book on what they do offensively by looking at film of the first two weeks (especially a team like the Pats that's usually doesn't leave a stone unturned and with a QB in Pennington they are very familiar with). When they came out with this formation I'm sure the Pats were like the computer in Star Trek yelling out "does not compute" because there had been zero reason to see this coming. The Pats were totally blindsided by it and it could not have worked out better for Miami.

Star Trek Analogy even though that was the wrong show. I think you meant "lost in space"

I think it was the fembots in the Harry Mudd episode.

You mean Harcourt Fenton Mudd?

 

[Raider Nation]

My guess is by using it in game three they totally caught the Pats with their pants down. The Pats probably looked at the game film from the first two weeks and prepared for what they saw there. Miami threw a totally different look at the Pats and it was very obvious that they weren't ready for it and were so thrown off by it they could not make the proper adjustments either.

My point exactly, Boston.Is the idea to humiliate the Pats, or to win as many games as possible using a dynamic formation which gives defenses fits?

I think you're missing my point...by waiting until three they were playing a team that thought they had a book on what they do offensively by looking at film of the first two weeks (especially a team like the Pats that's usually doesn't leave a stone unturned and with a QB in Pennington they are very familiar with). When they came out with this formation I'm sure the Pats were like the computer in Star Trek yelling out "does not compute" because there had been zero reason to see this coming. The Pats were totally blindsided by it and it could not have worked out better for Miami.

Star Trek Analogy even though that was the wrong show. I think you meant "lost in space"

I think it was the fembots in the Harry Mudd episode.

You mean Harcourt Fenton Mudd?

AWESOME episode! Watching Harry's ladies in those short skirts was like softcore pr0n to this then-8 year old.

 

[menobrown]

Raider Nation the real question you need to ask yourself is why your Raiders have not broke out this formation more than the one play I've seen it. They ran this formation a good deal in training camp with Mcfadden at QB and with their complete lack of a passing attack I just can't figure out what they are waiting for.

Your question presumes that the Raiders do sensible, prudent things like other organizations do.

Had not seen the Raider vs Bills game when I made my first post but now see the Raiders did use this formation a few times against the Bills. So far I think they have used it 4 times and it's picked up decent yardage I think 3 out of 4 times.

 

[adesai]

I would have thought that the biggest reason Miami would do this against the Pats is that they have famously slow linebackers. Whenever I've asked why college offenses don't work in he NFL, I've always been told that the linebacker speed in the NFL would destroy the kind of thing the Dolphins pulled off.