Disney self-government status (1 Viewer)

[The General]

This is an interesting story I think for a variety of issues. Thought it could get it's own thread: Disney self-government in peril after Florida House vote

First, Disney had this private government deal with Florida. Secondly, that this is apparently dissolving this quickly. This article does mention that they could unwind this so that will likely be the outcome but maybe not, in any case this is definitely a drastic step.

 

[Kal El]

That might actually backfire on the local governments, because Disney has a lot of land, and while they’re technically in Lake Buena Vista, any law enforcement is going to have to get ramped up based on sheer numbers of people who visit the park alone.

 

[Amused to Death]

Apparently it would cost taxpayers 100s of millions of dollars a year and they would take on $2B in debt.

Can we call this cancel culture? 

 

[Amused to Death]

Apparently it would cost taxpayers 100s of millions of dollars a year and they would take on $2B in debt.

Can we call this cancel culture? 

Local governments would also absorb all of the district’s liabilities, including the enormous amount of debt on its books.

Reedy Creek historically operates at a loss of approximately $5 to $10 million per year, per its financial reports. The current arrangement renders that meaningless since Disney is able to subsidize its own operations with theme park revenue.

According to lawmakers, though, there is as much as $1 billion in debt on the balance sheets that for which taxpayers would become responsible, possibly amounting to as much as thousands of dollars per household.

Link

 

[The General]

That might actually backfire on the local governments, because Disney has a lot of land, and while they’re technically in Lake Buena Vista, any law enforcement is going to have to get ramped up based on sheer numbers of people who visit the park alone.

This seems like a whole lot to unwind. 

 

[The General]

Local governments would also absorb all of the district’s liabilities, including the enormous amount of debt on its books.

Reedy Creek historically operates at a loss of approximately $5 to $10 million per year, per its financial reports. The current arrangement renders that meaningless since Disney is able to subsidize its own operations with theme park revenue.

According to lawmakers, though, there is as much as $1 billion in debt on the balance sheets that for which taxpayers would become responsible, possibly amounting to as much as thousands of dollars per household.

Link

Oof

 

[Kal El]

Yeah, that sounds like an awful idea. I’m not local to the area, but I bet the state legislators and the governor won’t pony up to pay that down. That’s also going to drive everyone in the area to move out, driving up housing costs even further in surrounding areas, and those who can’t move out get saddled with a huge tax burden.

 

[FairWarning]

If Disney was self-governing< were they not paying property taxes?  If not, would they now have to?

 

[whoknew]

Its so funny how the conservatives in this forum think only liberals practice cancel culture. 

Meanwhile, the Florida government is retaliating against Disney because they didn't like that Disney disagrees with them.

 

[bagger]

Government has a right to do this, but think this will not work out how they hope.

 

[The General]

Government has a right to do this, but think this will not work out how they hope.

If I’m reading this correctly this was all put together very quickly. I don’t think anyone knows fully what happens from what I have seen. 

 

[Desert_Power]

Doesn't seem like a particularly well thought out idea. I guess Florida is really fortunate it doesn't have any real issues to deal with like rising sea levels or increasingly uninsurable properties.

 

[bagger]

If I’m reading this correctly try is was all put together very quickly. I don’t think anyone knows fully what happens from what I have seen. 

Oh I agree.  I meant that basically picking a fight with Disney for no reason probably isn’t the wisest move but we will see

 

[moleculo]

This is clear retaliation because Disney doesn't support the GOP's recent legislation.  I'm really uncomfortable with the ###-for-tat, partisan retaliation. 

What kind of message does this send to other Florida companies?  Better support the GOP policies if you want to do business in Florida, regardless of the opinions of ownership, employees, or customers.

 

[The Commish]

That might actually backfire on the local governments, because Disney has a lot of land, and while they’re technically in Lake Buena Vista, any law enforcement is going to have to get ramped up based on sheer numbers of people who visit the park alone.

This would be a massive problem for the counties.  Everything from existing debt, to taxes, to infrastructure related support (fire, police, EMTs etc)  I am absolutely confident the counties would sue over this unless financial provisions were included that currently aren't.  This is another example of what happens when emotion takes the place of logic.  

 

[The General]

Doesn't seem like a particularly well thought out idea. I guess Florida is really fortunate it doesn't have any real issues to deal with like rising sea levels or increasingly uninsurable properties.

This Disney stuff was jammed into a voting session that was primarily about redistricting the voting map. I’m sure that was fairly done

 

[FairWarning]

This is clear retaliation because Disney doesn't support the GOP's recent legislation.  I'm really uncomfortable with the ###-for-tat, partisan retaliation. 

What kind of message does this send to other Florida companies?  Better support the GOP policies if you want to do business in Florida, regardless of the opinions of ownership, employees, or customers.

Don’t we have that in California now?  

 

[FairWarning]

This Disney stuff was jammed into a voting session that was primarily about redistricting the voting map. I’m sure that was fairly done

Sounds like how our federal government operates.

 

[HellToupee]

primarily about redistricting the voting map. I’m sure that was fairly done

When has redistricting ever been done fairly 

 

[The General]

When has redistricting ever been done fairly 

Great question. I don’t know. 

 

[tymarsas]

This is clear retaliation because Disney doesn't support the GOP's recent legislation.  I'm really uncomfortable with the ###-for-tat, partisan retaliation. 

What kind of message does this send to other Florida companies?  Better support the GOP policies if you want to do business in Florida, regardless of the opinions of ownership, employees, or customers.

Punishing companies for saying they are not donating to your political party seems like an awfully bad precedent to set.

 

[The General]

Sounds like how our federal government operates.

Desantis is the flavor of the month. Are people signing up for more of the same?

 

[FairWarning]

Desantis is the flavor of the month. Are people signing up for more of the same?

How many pet add-ones are because of the president?    Some of the moves by the right lately are head-scratching though.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Don’t we have that in California now?  

Yeah, but it's cute when the other guys do it.  How could anyone have possibly predicted that Republicans would pick up on this strategy?

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Actual 1A case.  The government attempting to use its power to cause harm because someone was vocally critical of policy. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

FWIW, I'm still firmly in the category of "just because they did it doesn't make it okay for you to do it."  Same as SCOTUS nominations.  I'm tired of all the ###-and-tat and escalation.

But I'm pretty sure that position is falling out of favor on the right.  I'm seeing more and more people take the view that they made the rules so we should play by them -- again, much like the people who thought it was cute to talk about packing the court.  I think this plays pretty strongly in DeSantis's favor in GOP circles.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

And of course, we could always play the game of "Well, well, well.  Look who's suddenly in favor of corporations having unfettered free speech rights and given the ability to shape social policy."  

We're deep into meta-hypocrisy on stuff like this.

 

[The General]

How many pet add-ones are because of the president?    Some of the moves by the right lately are head-scratching though.

It’s more of this tactic. He’s going after a businesses’ deal with the state (in what appears to be a haphazard way) because of how they are disagreeing with his political agenda. That’s fine I guess but my initial thought is this is kind of against the pro-biz mantra of the Republican party.

 

[FairWarning]

It’s more of this tactic. He’s going after a businesses’ deal with the state (in what appears to be a haphazard way) because of how they are disagreeing with his political agenda. That’s fine I guess but my initial thought is this is kind of against the pro-biz mantra of the Republican party.

I wish it were more pro-business.

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

And of course, we could always play the game of "Well, well, well.  Look who's suddenly in favor of corporations having unfettered free speech rights and given the ability to shape social policy."  

We're deep into meta-hypocrisy on stuff like this.

Social media having rules on their platform to censor speach they deem offensive while the government trying to use legislation to cause harm to an entity because it was critical of policy.  It's completely different. 

 

[The General]

And of course, we could always play the game of "Well, well, well.  Look who's suddenly in favor of corporations having unfettered free speech rights and given the ability to shape social policy."  

We're deep into meta-hypocrisy on stuff like this.

Right. This is a pretty good political drama we got going on here.

How Desantis navigates (and let’s be honest creates the story) will show how politically savvy he is. 

 

[Desert_Power]

Right. This is a pretty good political drama we got going on here.

How Desantis navigates (and let’s be honest creates the story) will show how politically savvy he is. 

Definitely some great examples on how it plays with folks that are overly consumed with sides vs issues.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Social media having rules on their platform to censor speach they deem offensive while the government trying to use legislation to cause harm to an entity because it was critical of policy.  It's completely different. 

Think Citizens United.

Although if Elon Musk succeeds in buying Twitter, how long before Elizabeth Warren get in front of a camera with a veiled threat to do something about this?

 

[Sand]

Think Citizens United.

Although if Elon Musk succeeds in buying Twitter, how long before Elizabeth Warren get in front of a camera with a veiled threat to do something about this?

  She hasn't already?

I figure if I can't be a sovereign citizen I don't see how the personhood of Disney should be able to.  (Ignoring unintended financial consequences for the sake of argument).

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Now that I'm officially Old, I feel like I have a whole wealth of reference points to go back to when stuff like this happens.

For example, think back to the 'oughts, when the gay marriage debate was resolved.  I vividly remember Andrew Sullivan writing something about how, in essence, it is good to be magnanimous in victory.  Don't spike the football, don't rub salt in the wound.  Just be happy and get on with it.  The gay rights movement more or less followed that strategy and it worked out great for them.

DeSantis had a little fight with Disney over his education bill.  It played out in public, and DeSantis won that fight decisively.  He got his bill, and Disney got nothing.  What exactly is the purpose of spitefully rubbing it in?  And is that really in anybody's long-term interests other than Ron DeSantis's and maybe not even his?   

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Think Citizens United.

Although if Elon Musk succeeds in buying Twitter, how long before Elizabeth Warren get in front of a camera with a veiled threat to do something about this?

I Warren does she would be wrong too. 

 

[The Commish]

This Disney stuff was jammed into a voting session that was primarily about redistricting the voting map. I’m sure that was fairly done

The redistrictimg issue is far more problematic. Has there ever been a state legislature that punted to their Governor to draw the maps on their own?  Gurss we need the "whataboutism" guys to weigh in on that and let us know. 

 

[moleculo]

Think Citizens United.

Although if Elon Musk succeeds in buying Twitter, how long before Elizabeth Warren get in front of a camera with a veiled threat to do something about this?

That's a little different.  Warren would be using her powers to shape Twitters policy directly - that's not good either. 

This is different though.  It's clear retaliation for criticism of a policy that is wholly unrelated to Disneys business.

 

[Amused to Death]

DeSantis had a little fight with Disney over his education bill.  It played out in public, and DeSantis won that fight decisively.  He got his bill, and Disney got nothing.  What exactly is the purpose of spitefully rubbing it in?  And is that really in anybody's long-term interests other than Ron DeSantis's and maybe not even his?   

DeSantis seems to be cutting off his nose to spite his face with this "cancel culture" stunt.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Its so funny how the conservatives in this forum think only liberals practice cancel culture. 

Meanwhile, the Florida government is retaliating against Disney because they didn't like that Disney disagrees with them.

This isn't cancel culture though.  They're not trying to shut Disney down.  

 

[moleculo]

The redistrictimg issue is far more problematic. Has there ever been a state legislature that punted to their Governor to draw the maps on their own?  Gurss we need the "whataboutism" guys to weigh in on that and let us know. 

I'm sure.  NC essentially punted to the courts.  Lots of states have dealt with this differently.

 

[Snotbubbles]

This is clear retaliation because Disney doesn't support the GOP's recent legislation.  I'm really uncomfortable with the ###-for-tat, partisan retaliation. 

What kind of message does this send to other Florida companies?  Better support the GOP policies if you want to do business in Florida, regardless of the opinions of ownership, employees, or customers.

Maybe the message received should be, corporations should stay apolitical.  

 

[The Commish]

I'm sure.  NC essentially punted to the courts.  Lots of states have dealt with this differently.

Id be interested in the circumstances if it did happen. Courts are there to resovle issues like this so that sort of makes sense. An individual, not so much. 

 

[moleculo]

Maybe the message received should be, corporations should stay apolitical.  

So eliminating political contributions from corporations? 

Let's do it.

 

[Boston]

So eliminating political contributions from corporations? 

Let's do it.

Add in Unions as well and we are onto something...

 

[FairWarning]

So eliminating political contributions from corporations? 

Let's do it.

THAT would be outstanding. 

 

[Da Guru]

Its so funny how the conservatives in this forum think only liberals practice cancel culture. 

Meanwhile, the Florida government is retaliating against Disney because they didn't like that Disney disagrees with them.

Isn`t that the way the cancel culture works though?

When business gets mixed up in politics it is not good. Keeping a neutral platform on running your business would seem like a great idea in this day and age.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Maybe the message received should be, corporations should stay apolitical.  

1st Amendment, Citizens United

 

[Snotbubbles]

So eliminating political contributions from corporations? 

Let's do it.

I'd be all for that.  

 

[Snotbubbles]

1st Amendment

What about it?