What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Do We Really Believe That The BLM/Antifa Riots Happened Like A Line Change In Hockey? (1 Viewer)

rockaction

rockaction

Footballguy
Tim and squistion seem to think that the BLM/Antifa protests happened in the day, and were subbed out at night for the looters and rioters. "Outside agitators," as it were.

Does this sound right to anybody? Am I dreaming in thinking that there just might have been overlap here? Or is this the new DNC-media complex narrative, and I just need to lead, follow, or get out of the way and shut up because they were fine, upstanding young men and women outside the burning buildings?

Holding Molotovs.

 
I posted video of them changing clothes to transform. Apparently i didnt actually see that. I also didnt see the same people behind the umbrella wall empty bags that they had been carrying for a while in a line. Those frozen water bottles were just for the thirsty people. Only the bad apples threw them. The rest just drank them. 

 
rockaction said:
Tim and squistion seem to think that the BLM/Antifa protests happened in the day, and were subbed out at night for the looters and rioters. "Outside agitators," as it were.

Does this sound right to anybody? Am I dreaming in thinking that there just might have been overlap here? Or is this the new DNC-media complex narrative, and I just need to lead, follow, or get out of the way and shut up because they were fine, upstanding young men and women outside the burning buildings?

Holding Molotovs.
Click to expand...
Seems like those two are always linked together like Frick & Frack.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
parasaurolophus said:
I posted video of them changing clothes to transform. Apparently i didnt actually see that. I also didnt see the same people behind the umbrella wall empty bags that they had been carrying for a while in a line. Those frozen water bottles were just for the thirsty people. Only the bad apples threw them. The rest just drank them. 
Click to expand...
So sort of like a line change, then. Just with the same people. Got it.

 
I believe there were elements left from the protests...but yes that there were outside/opportunists that came in later and looked for the chance to make trouble.  That may be the "antifa" side to it more so than during the protests.

Because there were plenty of protests that during the day were peaceful (see Nashville) that seemed to change quite a bit as it got later in the evening.

 
sho nuff said:
I believe there were elements left from the protests...but yes that there were outside/opportunists that came in later and looked for the chance to make trouble.  That may be the "antifa" side to it more so than during the protests.

Because there were plenty of protests that during the day were peaceful (see Nashville) that seemed to change quite a bit as it got later in the evening.
Click to expand...
I agree there were both.  Nobody ever admits they are with any group when rioting and looting as it is basically an every man for himself situation when a couple get picked off by the police.  Same as Portland, it was basically OK until the idiots came our every night. Were they Antifa or BLM people?  Probably some were and some not as they don`t wear ID badges.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
sho nuff said:
I believe there were elements left from the protests...but yes that there were outside/opportunists that came in later and looked for the chance to make trouble.  That may be the "antifa" side to it more so than during the protests.

Because there were plenty of protests that during the day were peaceful (see Nashville) that seemed to change quite a bit as it got later in the evening.
Click to expand...
Along those lines, this isn't "black and white".  The bloc of BLM isn't a homogenous group

1)  I think the vast majority of BLM protestors were there to protest civilly and believed they were out there with a purpose.  They did not partake in vandalism/violence/looting

2)  I think there was a component of people that attended BLM protests to see what they were about.  They weren't there to cause harm either.

3)  I think there was a component of people that attended BLM protests with full intention of looking for trouble:  looting/violence/rioting.  They are supporters of BLM and probably feel entitled to whatever happens. 

4)  I think there was a component of people that arrived after the protests with only intention of looking for trouble:  looting/violence/rioting.

I think 3 and 4 are a minority of the total BLM protestors.  I think they should be held fully accountable for what they did.  So I think there's both overlap as well as outside parties that were involved in the rioting. 

If I had to put any kind of rough guess or number to it, BLM protests were something like: #1 ~90%, #2  ~5%, #3  ~5%.  As for the destruction, I would put it maybe anywhere from 50-75% of #3 and 25-50% of #4.  Complete estimates based on nothing other than following along with the events this year.

 
parasaurolophus said:
They didnt even always change clothes. The people that burned down wendy's were marching right in front earlier in the day. In the same clothes. 
Click to expand...
So nothing like a line change, then. They didn't even come when the coach called them. Even Wile E. Coyote and the Sheep Dog punched the clock in and out and didn't destroy property off clock. So what's a guy to think about all this rioting and looting? Must've been solely outside agitators for sure.

 
gianmarco said:
Along those lines, this isn't "black and white".  The bloc of BLM isn't a homogenous group

1)  I think the vast majority of BLM protestors were there to protest civilly and believed they were out there with a purpose.  They did not partake in vandalism/violence/looting

2)  I think there was a component of people that attended BLM protests to see what they were about.  They weren't there to cause harm either.

3)  I think there was a component of people that attended BLM protests with full intention of looking for trouble:  looting/violence/rioting.  They are supporters of BLM and probably feel entitled to whatever happens. 

4)  I think there was a component of people that arrived after the protests with only intention of looking for trouble:  looting/violence/rioting.

I think 3 and 4 are a minority of the total BLM protestors.  I think they should be held fully accountable for what they did.  So I think there's both overlap as well as outside parties that were involved in the rioting. 

If I had to put any kind of rough guess or number to it, BLM protests were something like: #1 ~90%, #2  ~5%, #3  ~5%.  As for the destruction, I would put it maybe anywhere from 50-75% of #3 and 25-50% of #4.  Complete estimates based on nothing other than following along with the events this year.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately there is zero data or science to back up any estimations by anyone.  While there were a couple BLM leaders that condoned the rioting in Chicago what I stated before I believe to be accurate facts.

1. The BLM protests did not sanction the rioting.

2. Some people who attended BLM protests rioted.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Summer Wheat said:
Unfortunately there is zero data or science to back up any estimations by anyone.  While there were a couple BLM leaders that condoned the rioting in Chicago what I stated before I believe to be accurate facts.

1. The BLM protests did not sanction the rioting.

2. Some people who attended BLM protests rioted.
Click to expand...
Agreed with all of this.

 
rockaction said:
So nothing like a line change, then. They didn't even come when the coach called them. Even Wile E. Coyote and the Sheep Dog punched the clock in and out and didn't destroy property off clock. So what's a guy to think about all this rioting and looting? Must've been solely outside agitators for sure.
Click to expand...
Just blame umbrella man. 

 
Summer Wheat said:
Unfortunately there is zero data or science to back up any estimations by anyone.  While there were a couple BLM leaders that condoned the rioting in Chicago what I stated before I believe to be accurate facts.

1. The BLM protests did not sanction the rioting.

2. Some people who attended BLM protests rioted.
Click to expand...
Trump didn’t sanction anyone entering the Capitol 

 
rockaction said:
Tim and squistion seem to think that the BLM/Antifa protests happened in the day, and were subbed out at night for the looters and rioters. "Outside agitators," as it were.

Does this sound right to anybody? Am I dreaming in thinking that there just might have been overlap here? Or is this the new DNC-media complex narrative, and I just need to lead, follow, or get out of the way and shut up because they were fine, upstanding young men and women outside the burning buildings?

Holding Molotovs.
Click to expand...
There should be no question that there are bad actors identifying themselves with Antifa and/or BLM.  We can't dismiss those people and wish them away.  We CAN say they are the fringe and not generally representative of the movement as a whole.  And we CAN say there were people there that were just there to start trouble not identifying with either.  There's a distinction that has to be made.  I only briefly read in the fishing threads a couple of the arguments, but it seems to me that Tim takes exception with the assertion that BLM and Antifa were actively coordinating with each other.  That's a semantic argument that neither "side" should really be dug in on.  What matters is the end result of the bad actors.  My :2cents:  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Summer Wheat said:
Unfortunately there is zero data or science to back up any estimations by anyone.  While there were a couple BLM leaders that condoned the rioting in Chicago what I stated before I believe to be accurate facts.

1. The BLM protests did not sanction the rioting.

2. Some people who attended BLM protests rioted.
Click to expand...
Yes, some people who attended the BLM protests also participated in the riots. 

Of the estimated 50,000 people flooded the streets of Hollywood in June to protest the killing of George Floyd I am sure there were a few that later took part in the looting and burning of buildings. 

 
rockaction said:
Tim and squistion seem to think that the BLM/Antifa protests happened in the day, and were subbed out at night for the looters and rioters. "Outside agitators," as it were.

Does this sound right to anybody? Am I dreaming in thinking that there just might have been overlap here? Or is this the new DNC-media complex narrative, and I just need to lead, follow, or get out of the way and shut up because they were fine, upstanding young men and women outside the burning buildings?

Holding Molotovs.
Click to expand...
Your first mistake is just blindly always putting BLM and Antifa together. While they have co-opted at times they are not the same thing yet somehow certain folks here ALWAYS put them as inseparable. 

 
urbanhack said:
Your first mistake is just blindly always putting BLM and Antifa together. While they have co-opted at times they are not the same thing yet somehow certain folks here ALWAYS put them as inseparable. 
Click to expand...
I'd like to hear my second because I firmly believe that after a while, BLM and Antifa coordinated, at least in Kenosha, Portland, and in other cities where the burning and looting persisted over a period of months.

 
urbanhack said:
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/11/23/portland-protest-racial-justice-oregon-black-lives-matter/
Click to expand...
"In America’s whitest city, Black activists struggle to separate themselves from anarchists"

Ex-actly. They struggled. Because they were protesting, looting, and rioting together. It's all bull#### that they wanted to remain separate entities. I remember being around the WTO/IMF protestors when the WTO or IMF came to DC. They were all decentralized, the groups, and all helped each other out. They had meetings at my friend's place, because a left-libertarian/anarchist was rooming with my libertarian friends and decided to take up the protestors' cause. It was pretty clear that some disparate groups were in cahoots with each other, but nothing formal, so as to decentralize blame and deflect police presence. These Marxists and anarchists are smart about the police and their own malfeasance. I'm fully convinced they were together on the deal despite obvious differences in who they were comprised of.

 
rockaction said:
I'd like to hear my second because I firmly believe that after a while, BLM and Antifa coordinated, at least in Kenosha, Portland, and in other cities where the burning and looting persisted over a period of months.
Click to expand...
BLM and Antifa coordinated the protests and subsequent riots?  :lol:   You can't make this stuff up. 

 
squistion said:
Yes, some people who attended the BLM protests also participated in the riots. 

Of the estimated 50,000 people flooded the streets of Hollywood in June to protest the killing of George Floyd I am sure there were a few that later took part in the looting and burning of buildings. 
Click to expand...
Correct..I have stated that a number of times. When a riot breaks out at a protest that is what happens.

 
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/11/02/trump-antifa-movement-portland

"After the crowd dispersed, I found the man in the bicycle helmet at a nearby 7-Eleven. His name was Rico De Vera, and he was a twenty-seven-year-old Filipino-American who studied engineering at Portland Community College. Earlier that day, a Trump supporter had shot him in the face with a paintball gun; the flesh around his left eye was stained neon pink. De Vera had been regularly participating in Black Lives Matter protests since May. Although he remained enthusiastic about the movement, he worried that in Portland it had been subsumed by the city’s militant antifascist culture, which he saw as violent and white. “It pisses me off,” he said. “People are going to use tonight to say that Black Lives Matter is a bunch of thugs.”

BLM/Antifa.

Laugh away, squistion. They were together and coordinated.

 
rockaction said:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/11/02/trump-antifa-movement-portland

"After the crowd dispersed, I found the man in the bicycle helmet at a nearby 7-Eleven. His name was Rico De Vera, and he was a twenty-seven-year-old Filipino-American who studied engineering at Portland Community College. Earlier that day, a Trump supporter had shot him in the face with a paintball gun; the flesh around his left eye was stained neon pink. De Vera had been regularly participating in Black Lives Matter protests since May. Although he remained enthusiastic about the movement, he worried that in Portland it had been subsumed by the city’s militant antifascist culture, which he saw as violent and white. “It pisses me off,” he said. “People are going to use tonight to say that Black Lives Matter is a bunch of thugs.”

BLM/Antifa.

Laugh away, squistion. They were together and coordinated.
Click to expand...
Did you actually read what you quoted? It doesn't say that BLM and Antifa coordinated anything. 

 
rockaction said:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/11/02/trump-antifa-movement-portland

"After the crowd dispersed, I found the man in the bicycle helmet at a nearby 7-Eleven. His name was Rico De Vera, and he was a twenty-seven-year-old Filipino-American who studied engineering at Portland Community College. Earlier that day, a Trump supporter had shot him in the face with a paintball gun; the flesh around his left eye was stained neon pink. De Vera had been regularly participating in Black Lives Matter protests since May. Although he remained enthusiastic about the movement, he worried that in Portland it had been subsumed by the city’s militant antifascist culture, which he saw as violent and white. “It pisses me off,” he said. “People are going to use tonight to say that Black Lives Matter is a bunch of thugs.”

BLM/Antifa.

Laugh away, squistion. They were together and coordinated.
Click to expand...
I did not read the article (yet), but the portion you quoted gives the exact opposite implication that BLM and Antifa are tied together and coordinated.

 
They had the summer of love together in CHAZ.  Antifa was the warm up band and BLM ended up shooting and killing young black kids for the main event.

 
Rich Conway said:
I did not read the article (yet), but the portion you quoted gives the exact opposite implication that BLM and Antifa are tied together and coordinated.
Click to expand...
No, the quote, with a little inferential digging, can show you that the two groups were becoming so intertwined that members of the non-violent sect were worried that Antifa's ways were going to be perceived as BLM's ways. They absolutely were together and coordinating, and some BLM activists welcomed the coordination, if you read the article. Others wanted it to remain black, but the hardcore agitators welcomed their comrades. Spillage village, baby.

 
It's quite clear to anybody who can read and infer a little bit that BLM and Antifa were coordinating and together in both Kenosha and in Portland. 

 
squistion said:
Did you actually read what you quoted? It doesn't say that BLM and Antifa coordinated anything. 
Click to expand...
Forget the coordinating as both groups are different.  Do you believe the black people who were rioting at the protests were BLM supporters?  Or were they not down with the cause and just out there to loot and burn?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Summer Wheat said:
Forget the  coordinating.  Do you believe the black people who were rioting at the protests were BLM supporters?  Or were they not down with the cause and just out there to loot and burn?
Click to expand...
From what I can remember of reports of those who were arrested, these people were for the most part career criminals and opportunists who took advantage of the situation to burn, loot and riot. I am sure that if asked they would say they believed in the cause, but if one could research the matter I doubt that few were BLM members or even registered voters for that matter.

 
There bad actors in all groups. Some of the people who protested peacefully continued into the night riots and looting. Undoubtedly there were outside agitators, anarchists and opportunists who joined them for the chaos. The mix is anyone’s guess.

 
squistion said:
Not a shred of proof of that outside of some flimsy anecdotal evidence of one protester quoted in The New Yorker article by the OP.
Click to expand...
Except this whole thread has been filled with links of proof.

However, your insistence that's the protesters clocked out at 5:00 p.m. and there was a shift change for a completely different set of people is absurd.

BLM / Antifa go hand in hand like peanut butter and jelly.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
squistion said:
Not a shred of proof of that outside of some flimsy anecdotal evidence of one protester quoted in The New Yorker article by the OP.
Click to expand...
Actually, the whole latter part of the article was about the disparate groups and certain leaders of BLM pretty much unifying with Antifa in Portland under the antifascist banner. But you can't be troubled to read the article, so that's fine. Of course, you'd have to be able to infer things in a non-black-and-white world, which I'm not sure MSNBC approves of, so clear lines must indeed be drawn. There certainly must not be an overlap of the groups united for a common cause (being against the Portland gov't and police dept.) in the cable news world. Nothing that messy, of course.

 
squistion said:
Not a shred of proof of that outside of some flimsy anecdotal evidence of one protester quoted in The New Yorker article by the OP.
Click to expand...
Link

At least eight people were arrested in Portland on Wednesday after rioters damaged both federal and private property, police said.

Dozens of protesters took to the streets of Oregon's largest city following the inauguration of President Joe Biden. Some people were seen carrying Black Lives Matter signs, while others held banners with anti-Biden or anti-police slogans.
Click to expand...

 
Thunderlips said:
Much like the than failed, treasonous Trump Insurgency Invasion of the Capitol...there are bad actors mixed in with good actors.  
Click to expand...
How come when BLM / Antifa was burning down and destroying federal buildings in Portland, Seattle and Minneapolis you didn't called it an insurgency then?  You know, there were people inside those buildings when all that was going on, right?

An attack by a large group of people on any federal building is an insurgency.  If you're going to label what happened on January 6th as an insurgency then you need to label all of what BLM / antifa did over the last year as an insurgency as well.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thunderlips said:
Much like the than failed, treasonous Trump Insurgency Invasion of the Capitol...there are bad actors mixed in with good actors.  
Click to expand...
We're not really arguing that as the premise. We're arguing that squistion and tim's BLM/Antifa riots were actually riots that happened under the auspices of BLM and Antifa. Which the article about Portland proves, and the events of Kenosha can be inferred from.

 
BladeRunner said:
How come when BLM / Antifa was burning down and destroying federal buildings in Portland, Seattle and Minneapolis you didn't called it an insurgency then?  You know, there were people inside those buildings when all that was going on, right?

An attack by a large group of people on any federal building is an insurgency.  If you're going to label what happened on January 6th as an insurgency then you need to label all of what BLM / antifa did over the last year as an insurgency as well.
Click to expand...
Now doggone it we have talked about this.  As CNN has so eloquently subscribed to...if the cause is JUST, then the "social unrest" as it can be called, is OK.   

 
Last edited by a moderator:
BladeRunner said:
How come when BLM / Antifa was burning down and destroying federal buildings in Portland, Seattle and Minneapolis you didn't called it an insurgency then?  You know, there were people inside those buildings when all that was going on, right?

An attack by a large group of people on any federal building is an insurgency.  If you're going to label what happened on January 6th as an insurgency then you need to label all of what BLM / antifa did over the last year as an insurgency as well.
Click to expand...
Oh, it was an insurgency against American governance. It's just that the DNC-media industrial complex has decided that those weren't insurrections, per se.

Hint: They absolutely were.

This is not to draw false equivalences between the two; this is simply fact that all four of those instances were insurrections against the government. What happened at the Capitol, in my view, is as disgusting as what happened in Portland, and the insurrectionists should all be held accountable.

 
BladeRunner said:
Except this whole thread has been filled with links of proof.

However, your insistence that's the protesters clocked out at 5:00 p.m. and there was a shift change for a completely different set of people is absurd.
Click to expand...
I have yet to see one that was actual proof. 

And I have never claimed that the groups of protesters and rioters were water tight and had no overlap. As I noted earlier, I am sure there were some out of the 50,000 who marched in L.A. that came for the protests and stayed for the riots - but, we are talking of a small number out of literally thousands who peacefully protested and then went home. 

 
supermike80 said:
Nod doggone it we have talked about this.  As CNN has so eloquently subscribed to...if the cause is JUST, then the "social unrest" as it can be called, is OK.   
Click to expand...
Oh, cool! Then we can say what happened on January 6th was it just cause because they were just trying to rescue their government from a coup!

So maybe you could say it was patriotic?

 
BladeRunner said:
How come when BLM / Antifa was burning down and destroying federal buildings in Portland, Seattle and Minneapolis you didn't called it an insurgency then?  You know, there were people inside those buildings when all that was going on, right?

An attack by a large group of people on any federal building is an insurgency.  If you're going to label what happened on January 6th as an insurgency then you need to label all of what BLM / antifa did over the last year as an insurgency as well.
Click to expand...
Sure.

I delineate in regards to Federal v. Local property/personal damage in regards to the charging of crimes.... but I have no problem imprisoning those who attacked Federal buildings around the country in the same dungeon that Trumps Militia belong.  Let them all swing.

 
squistion said:
I have yet to see one that was actual proof. 

And I have never claimed that the groups of protesters and rioters were water tight and had no overlap. As I noted earlier, I am sure there were some out of the 50,000 who marched in L.A. that came for the protests and stayed for the riots - but, we are talking of a small number out of literally thousands who peacefully protested and then went home. 
Click to expand...
Rockaction seems to be challenging claims you and @timschochet have made.  It's admiral that he's provided some evidence, both sourced and anecdotal.  You have any evidence to back up the claims you made in the first place?  Something like BLM condemning the riots in Portland like Trump did for the riot at the capitol?  I won't hold my breath.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top