Do you support amnesty for illegal immigrants? (1 Viewer)

[Buckychudd]

there is a pretty broad range of solutions:a) mandatory deportation of all undocumentedb) guest worker programc) expanded visa programd) path to citizenship w/ penaltye) grant to eventual citizenship w/o penaltyf) grant immediate citizenshipI'm not sure at point we draw the line that defines "amnesty". I'm sure if you break all of these solutions up, there will be a fraction of people that support each one. So, if you say amnesty includes options b- f, you will probably think that there is broad support for amnesty.however, I think many would define amnesty less broadly. Personally, I would define amnesty as d-f - I don't think that a-c should be considered anmesty as there is no direct path for full citizenship

b and c will lead to eventual amnesty. Why? because the notion of a "guest worker program" is ludicrous. How do you get these "guests" to leave? They never will, unless you're willing to deport them. Therefore, de facto you are letting them in to stay. Their children will become citizens. Whether or not they are ever citizens themselves, what difference? They're here. Therefore, every choice you listed other than "a" is de facto amnesty.

why are we not willing to deport them now?

Because no matter what we profess, we know that wouldn't be good for anyone.

 

[timschochet]

Timmy, I posted this in the other thread but you never answered. This is probably a more appropriate place for it anyways:

And as far as a national system for verifying legal status- that will be considered a civil rights violation and will be tied up in courts for years, I predict, if it's even part of the final bill (which I doubt.)

Ever heard of E-verify?

Yes. It's used in some states, I believe. It's currently voluntary. If a law is ever passed to make this mandatory, I predict the result will be legal challenges, especially if it's used to penalize employers.

 

[Mr. Littlejeans]

Lots of naivete in this thread.

This is a tricky issue, esp. for the right, because you have people who want them out, but business interests (esp. agribusiness) want them in. And not just in, but also illegal and undocumented so they can be paid accordingly, not subjected to labor laws, etc.

I know a lot of you guys subsist on frozen pizzas and Doritos, but fruit and vegetable prices would spike way up if we could somehow shut all illegals out of the country. Studies have shown that illegal immigration has a slight positive effect on the economy overall (benefit of cheap labor slightly outweighing govt costs), and given that I'm not competing with any illegal immigrants for jobs, I'm OK with the status quo.

 

[Comer]

I'm rather shocked by the early poll results. I was expecting something like 80-90% opposed. I still am.

I voted NO, people need to go back to there own country.

Yeah. And the people here should learn the language or get out!

I called my Bank yesterday and the recording said. For Spanish press 1For Broken English press 2For all others you are SOL

 

[timschochet]

Lots of naivete in this thread.This is a tricky issue, esp. for the right, because you have people who want them out, but business interests (esp. agribusiness) want them in. And not just in, but also illegal and undocumented so they can be paid accordingly, not subjected to labor laws, etc. I know a lot of you guys subsist on frozen pizzas and Doritos, but fruit and vegetable prices would spike way up if we could somehow shut all illegals out of the country. Studies have shown that illegal immigration has a slight positive effect on the economy overall (benefit of cheap labor slightly outweighing govt costs), and given that I'm not competing with any illegal immigrants for jobs, I'm OK with the status quo.

Conservatives should be all over illegals coming in, because their presence will destroy the unions eventually. I am very much in favor of cheap labor- keep prices down.

 

[Mr. Littlejeans]

I'm rather shocked by the early poll results. I was expecting something like 80-90% opposed. I still am.

I voted NO, people need to go back to there own country.

Yeah. And the people here should learn the language or get out!

I called my Bank yesterday and the recording said. For Spanish press 1For Broken English press 2For all others you are SOL

Whoosh.

 

[RudiStein]

Lots of naivete in this thread.

This is a tricky issue, esp. for the right, because you have people who want them out, but business interests (esp. agribusiness) want them in. And not just in, but also illegal and undocumented so they can be paid accordingly, not subjected to labor laws, etc.

I know a lot of you guys subsist on frozen pizzas and Doritos, but fruit and vegetable prices would spike way up if we could somehow shut all illegals out of the country. Studies have shown that illegal immigration has a slight positive effect on the economy overall (benefit of cheap labor slightly outweighing govt costs), and given that I'm not competing with any illegal immigrants for jobs, I'm OK with the status quo.

I live in one of the most conservative counties in California. This is 'Reagan Country'. It also happens to be one of the largest agricultural producing counties in the entire nation. You don't hear a whole lot of anti-immigration stuff from any of the right-wingers who understand the economics of agribusiness.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Timmy,

I posted this in the other thread but you never answered. This is probably a more appropriate place for it anyways:

And as far as a national system for verifying legal status- that will be considered a civil rights violation and will be tied up in courts for years, I predict, if it's even part of the final bill (which I doubt.)

Ever heard of E-verify?

Yes. It's used in some states, I believe. It's currently voluntary. If a law is ever passed to make this mandatory, I predict the result will be legal challenges, especially if it's used to penalize employers.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125211527381288193.html

 

[RCon]

Lots of naivete in this thread.

This is a tricky issue, esp. for the right, because you have people who want them out, but business interests (esp. agribusiness) want them in. And not just in, but also illegal and undocumented so they can be paid accordingly, not subjected to labor laws, etc.

I know a lot of you guys subsist on frozen pizzas and Doritos, but fruit and vegetable prices would spike way up if we could somehow shut all illegals out of the country. Studies have shown that illegal immigration has a slight positive effect on the economy overall (benefit of cheap labor slightly outweighing govt costs), and given that I'm not competing with any illegal immigrants for jobs, I'm OK with the status quo.

The bolded is bulls**t scare-mongering tactics and untrue. That is all.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Lots of naivete in this thread.

This is a tricky issue, esp. for the right, because you have people who want them out, but business interests (esp. agribusiness) want them in. And not just in, but also illegal and undocumented so they can be paid accordingly, not subjected to labor laws, etc.

I know a lot of you guys subsist on frozen pizzas and Doritos, but fruit and vegetable prices would spike way up if we could somehow shut all illegals out of the country. Studies have shown that illegal immigration has a slight positive effect on the economy overall (benefit of cheap labor slightly outweighing govt costs), and given that I'm not competing with any illegal immigrants for jobs, I'm OK with the status quo.

The bolded is bulls**t scare-mongering tactics and untrue. That is all.

Yup. I posted a study last year that showed the average family would see their fruit/veggie prices go up $5/year if we didn't have illegals in the fields.

 

[Brutis]

I'm rather shocked by the early poll results. I was expecting something like 80-90% opposed. I still am.

I voted NO, people need to go back to there own country.

Question for you, Brutis, since you served in the military (and thank you for that, BTW). What about illegals who have served? Would you grant them a special status, or do they have to go back too?

When I joined in the mid 80's there seemed to be a lot of Philipinos in the service that couldnt hold a clearance which is why they were cooks, storekeepers and stuff like that. If they were good enough to serve then they are good enough to stay imo.

 

[Bamboo Bill]

I'm rather shocked by the early poll results. I was expecting something like 80-90% opposed. I still am.

I voted NO, people need to go back to there own country.

Question for you, Brutis, since you served in the military (and thank you for that, BTW). What about illegals who have served? Would you grant them a special status, or do they have to go back too?

When I joined in the mid 80's there seemed to be a lot of Philipinos in the service that couldnt hold a clearance which is why they were cooks, storekeepers and stuff like that. If they were good enough to serve then they are good enough to stay imo.

What does this mean?

 

[Brutis]

I'm rather shocked by the early poll results. I was expecting something like 80-90% opposed. I still am.

I voted NO, people need to go back to there own country.

Question for you, Brutis, since you served in the military (and thank you for that, BTW). What about illegals who have served? Would you grant them a special status, or do they have to go back too?

When I joined in the mid 80's there seemed to be a lot of Philipinos in the service that couldnt hold a clearance which is why they were cooks, storekeepers and stuff like that. If they were good enough to serve then they are good enough to stay imo.

What does this mean?

Cooks (mess specialist) and storekeepers didnt require a security clearance to perform this job in the Navy.

 

[timschochet]

Cooks (mess specialist) and storekeepers didnt require a security clearance to perform this job in the Navy.

What about Steven Segal in Under Siege? That was one bad ### cook.

 

[facook]

I don't, and for whatever it's worth, the illegal immigrants I'm friends with (@5 families) don't either. They've told me they are in favor of background checks, tax audits, and amnesty for those who pass those tests with no black marks (excusing the illegal immigration, of course). All illegals who don't pass a background check and tax audit they think should be deported.

These families have good jobs, work hard, are productive people in our community, and I'd be in favor of they're staying here with no penalty.

 

[RudiStein]

Lots of naivete in this thread.

This is a tricky issue, esp. for the right, because you have people who want them out, but business interests (esp. agribusiness) want them in. And not just in, but also illegal and undocumented so they can be paid accordingly, not subjected to labor laws, etc.

I know a lot of you guys subsist on frozen pizzas and Doritos, but fruit and vegetable prices would spike way up if we could somehow shut all illegals out of the country. Studies have shown that illegal immigration has a slight positive effect on the economy overall (benefit of cheap labor slightly outweighing govt costs), and given that I'm not competing with any illegal immigrants for jobs, I'm OK with the status quo.

The bolded is bulls**t scare-mongering tactics and untrue. That is all.

Yup. I posted a study last year that showed the average family would see their fruit/veggie prices go up $5/year if we didn't have illegals in the fields.

Link?

 

[Saints-Man]

I am against amnesty, but I recognize that deporting every illegal immigrant will be too expensive for the American public to accept.

My hope is that with a reasonable investment, the US can deport enough that we can at least claim some dignity for the support of the rule of law, but it will hardly be complete.

 

[Tybeeman]

No

 

[StrikeS2k]

I am against amnesty, but I recognize that deporting every illegal immigrant will be too expensive for the American public to accept. My hope is that with a reasonable investment, the US can deport enough that we can at least claim some dignity for the support of the rule of law, but it will hardly be complete.

What makes you think we need to deport them all?

 

[jonessed]

I am against amnesty, but I recognize that deporting every illegal immigrant will be too expensive for the American public to accept. My hope is that with a reasonable investment, the US can deport enough that we can at least claim some dignity for the support of the rule of law, but it will hardly be complete.

What makes you think we need to deport them all?

Cut off the jobs and they will go home indefinitely. No reason to spend the time and money deporting them, they'll just come back.

 

[Chadstroma]

"Path to citizenship" means amnesty.

Yes.

"Limited guest worker program" means amnesty.

Yes.

"Comprehensive immigration reform" means amnesty

Yes.

 

[Saints-Man]

I am against amnesty, but I recognize that deporting every illegal immigrant will be too expensive for the American public to accept. My hope is that with a reasonable investment, the US can deport enough that we can at least claim some dignity for the support of the rule of law, but it will hardly be complete.

What makes you think we need to deport them all?

In order to comply with our deep regard for the rule of law. But in order to do so, I expect there will be some compromise letting some stay and deporting others. Where the numbers would fall would be anyone's guess.

 

[Black Box]

I'm for it, but haven't really looked too deeply into the issue.

 

[StrikeS2k]

I am against amnesty, but I recognize that deporting every illegal immigrant will be too expensive for the American public to accept. My hope is that with a reasonable investment, the US can deport enough that we can at least claim some dignity for the support of the rule of law, but it will hardly be complete.

What makes you think we need to deport them all?

In order to comply with our deep regard for the rule of law. But in order to do so, I expect there will be some compromise letting some stay and deporting others. Where the numbers would fall would be anyone's guess.

There are plenty of ways to get rid of them without deporting all of them.

 

[Statorama]

The best solution here is one that will never be considered - just invade Mexico and annex it. This problem has been a problem since we had to deal with Texas. Just finish that up already. Make Mexico a state, give them 2 Senators and probably 9 or House members and be done with it..

This would be great for us and great for them. I'm dead serious that you're right. Not invade though: offer them statehood (or multistatehood), an open border, dual citizenship, and unrestricted trade. Same with Canada.

IN

 

[Saints-Man]

The best solution here is one that will never be considered - just invade Mexico and annex it. This problem has been a problem since we had to deal with Texas. Just finish that up already. Make Mexico a state, give them 2 Senators and probably 9 or House members and be done with it..

This would be great for us and great for them. I'm dead serious that you're right. Not invade though: offer them statehood (or multistatehood), an open border, dual citizenship, and unrestricted trade. Same with Canada.

IN

In

 

[Brutis]

Cooks (mess specialist) and storekeepers didnt require a security clearance to perform this job in the Navy.

What about Steven Segal in Under Siege? That was one bad ### cook.

I bet he couldnt make lumpia like the philipino cooks.

 

[Mr. Littlejeans]

Lots of naivete in this thread.

This is a tricky issue, esp. for the right, because you have people who want them out, but business interests (esp. agribusiness) want them in. And not just in, but also illegal and undocumented so they can be paid accordingly, not subjected to labor laws, etc.

I know a lot of you guys subsist on frozen pizzas and Doritos, but fruit and vegetable prices would spike way up if we could somehow shut all illegals out of the country. Studies have shown that illegal immigration has a slight positive effect on the economy overall (benefit of cheap labor slightly outweighing govt costs), and given that I'm not competing with any illegal immigrants for jobs, I'm OK with the status quo.

The bolded is bulls**t scare-mongering tactics and untrue. That is all.

Yup. I posted a study last year that showed the average family would see their fruit/veggie prices go up $5/year if we didn't have illegals in the fields.

Link?

 

[Black Box]

The best solution here is one that will never be considered - just invade Mexico and annex it. This problem has been a problem since we had to deal with Texas. Just finish that up already. Make Mexico a state, give them 2 Senators and probably 9 or House members and be done with it..

This would be great for us and great for them. I'm dead serious that you're right. Not invade though: offer them statehood (or multistatehood), an open border, dual citizenship, and unrestricted trade. Same with Canada.

WHOA!Let's not get crazy here.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Lots of naivete in this thread.

This is a tricky issue, esp. for the right, because you have people who want them out, but business interests (esp. agribusiness) want them in. And not just in, but also illegal and undocumented so they can be paid accordingly, not subjected to labor laws, etc.

I know a lot of you guys subsist on frozen pizzas and Doritos, but fruit and vegetable prices would spike way up if we could somehow shut all illegals out of the country. Studies have shown that illegal immigration has a slight positive effect on the economy overall (benefit of cheap labor slightly outweighing govt costs), and given that I'm not competing with any illegal immigrants for jobs, I'm OK with the status quo.

The bolded is bulls**t scare-mongering tactics and untrue. That is all.

Yup. I posted a study last year that showed the average family would see their fruit/veggie prices go up $5/year if we didn't have illegals in the fields.

Link?

I posted a link. Last year.

 

[Offa]

Immigration controls simply don't work. Get rid of them all.

 

[Chadstroma]

Cooks (mess specialist) and storekeepers didnt require a security clearance to perform this job in the Navy.

What about Steven Segal in Under Siege? That was one bad ### cook.

I bet he couldnt make lumpia like the Filipino cooks.

Fixed

 

[Bamboo Bill]

Cooks (mess specialist) and storekeepers didnt require a security clearance to perform this job in the Navy.

What about Steven Segal in Under Siege? That was one bad ### cook.

I bet he couldnt make lumpia like the philipino cooks.

I bet lumpia happened when you took one of those philipino "boy toy" cooks back to your bunk.

 

[Mr. Littlejeans]

Lots of naivete in this thread.

This is a tricky issue, esp. for the right, because you have people who want them out, but business interests (esp. agribusiness) want them in. And not just in, but also illegal and undocumented so they can be paid accordingly, not subjected to labor laws, etc.

I know a lot of you guys subsist on frozen pizzas and Doritos, but fruit and vegetable prices would spike way up if we could somehow shut all illegals out of the country. Studies have shown that illegal immigration has a slight positive effect on the economy overall (benefit of cheap labor slightly outweighing govt costs), and given that I'm not competing with any illegal immigrants for jobs, I'm OK with the status quo.

The bolded is bulls**t scare-mongering tactics and untrue. That is all.

Yup. I posted a study last year that showed the average family would see their fruit/veggie prices go up $5/year if we didn't have illegals in the fields.

Link?

I posted a link. Last year.

Being obstinate doesn't help your cause. I am curious to see said study, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

[None_More_Black]

Lots of naivete in this thread.This is a tricky issue, esp. for the right, because you have people who want them out, but business interests (esp. agribusiness) want them in. And not just in, but also illegal and undocumented so they can be paid accordingly, not subjected to labor laws, etc. I know a lot of you guys subsist on frozen pizzas and Doritos, but fruit and vegetable prices would spike way up if we could somehow shut all illegals out of the country. Studies have shown that illegal immigration has a slight positive effect on the economy overall (benefit of cheap labor slightly outweighing govt costs), and given that I'm not competing with any illegal immigrants for jobs, I'm OK with the status quo.

You know we can still have immigration, and temporary work visas, and still enforce our immigration laws. Having a permanent underclass that fears being deported so they work for below market wages in not a good thing either.

 

[jonessed]

I posted a link. Last year.

Being obstinate doesn't help your cause. I am curious to see said study, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I imagine he would have to search his name for old posts on the forums or Google it again just the same as you. If you are curious to see it go find it.

 

[Das Boot]

:( to read this thread before voting.

I already know it's a very complicated issue... at least it is now... it would have been easy(ier) to deal with 20 years ago.

 

[RudiStein]

Lots of naivete in this thread.

This is a tricky issue, esp. for the right, because you have people who want them out, but business interests (esp. agribusiness) want them in. And not just in, but also illegal and undocumented so they can be paid accordingly, not subjected to labor laws, etc.

I know a lot of you guys subsist on frozen pizzas and Doritos, but fruit and vegetable prices would spike way up if we could somehow shut all illegals out of the country. Studies have shown that illegal immigration has a slight positive effect on the economy overall (benefit of cheap labor slightly outweighing govt costs), and given that I'm not competing with any illegal immigrants for jobs, I'm OK with the status quo.

The bolded is bulls**t scare-mongering tactics and untrue. That is all.

Yup. I posted a study last year that showed the average family would see their fruit/veggie prices go up $5/year if we didn't have illegals in the fields.

Link?

I posted a link. Last year.

Really? You call out another poster for using "bullsh**t scare-mongering tactics" yet you won't provide a simple link?

 

[RudiStein]

I posted a link. Last year.

Being obstinate doesn't help your cause. I am curious to see said study, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I imagine he would have to search his name for old posts on the forums or Google it again just the same as you. If you are curious to see it go find it.

Oh yeah? Well guess what? I posted a link to a study last year that proves StikeS2k totally wrong. But I'm not going to post it again. Looks like I win.

 

[the moops]

I feel like I have to speak Hindu to live here anymore.

Not a language.And what makes you think they are illegal anyhow?

 

[The Comedian]

I posted a link. Last year.

Being obstinate doesn't help your cause. I am curious to see said study, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I imagine he would have to search his name for old posts on the forums or Google it again just the same as you. If you are curious to see it go find it.

Oh yeah? Well guess what? I posted a link to a study last year that proves StikeS2k totally wrong. But I'm not going to post it again. Looks like I win.

 

[Coop]

Make them citizens so they can pay taxes like everyone else.

<_< And make them pay $$$ for their visits to our emergency rooms.Seems like common sense to the point it is unbelievably aggravating that others cant see the solution.

 

[moleculo]

Make them citizens so they can pay taxes like everyone else.

<_< And make them pay $$$ for their visits to our emergency rooms.Seems like common sense to the point it is unbelievably aggravating that others cant see the solution.

pretty sure many of them do pay taxes.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

I feel like I have to speak Hindu to live here anymore.

Not a language.And what makes you think they are illegal anyhow?

The funny thing is I would be willing to bet that the "middle easterners" he is referring to are Chaldeans which happen to be Iraqi Christians.

 

[Joe T]

No.

 

[timschochet]

This is a good thread. I'm proud to have started it. I have started many threads on this same issue, and will likely start many more.

 

[Varmint]

I am for Amnesty because it will be better for America the Democratic Party, and because we're not getting rid of them anyhow. I fully realize I am in the minority and will remain so. But if the arguments on my side are so unconvincing that the only way to get them into law is through deception, better they fail.

(correction made)

This...combined with "no ID required to vote" and the Democratic Party will be living large for decades to come!

Bring 'em in, sign 'em up!

Don't forget to get them all on welfare!!

We sure don't want them to need anything!

Hell ya! Now THAT'S gonna work!

People whine about "Iraq taking care of themselves and their problems"...well...how about Central America address THEIR problems and stop loading them up and shipping them to America?

Hey, I got an idea....let's pack up all of OUR "dead wood" and ship THEM south!!!

Now THAT's a plan!!

There is absolutely nothing in this that is "good for America".

Flooding the country with the uneducated criminals from another country while everyone is already screaming about unemployment does not sound like a formula for success...but then again, when has THAT ever been a concern?

Seriously, just what do you expect them to contribute??

Oh wait...who cares?? Right?

I would literally CRAP MY PANTS if ANY politician put the country ahead of their party.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2743817/Revealed-Where-37-000-illegal-immigrant-children-released-guardians-Connecticut-Kentucky-feds-hiding-tens-thousands-more.html