How To Get To Heaven When You Die. Read The First Post. Then Q&A Discussion. Ask Questions Here! (2 (1 Viewer)

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Why would aliens present a problem to Biblical literalists?

Because the mythists would [be] insufferable placing Jesus' ministry and crucifixion on an alien planet

 

[Psychopav]

Why would aliens present a problem to Biblical literalists?

Because the mythists would insufferable placing Jesus' ministry and crucifixion on an alien planet

Have you ever heard of CS Lewis' Space Trilogy? He has an interesting treatment of this topic.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The tennis friend of mine who took me to a Men's group at a Church during the pandemic, I'll be honest I did it so I could get out of the house
This guy lays into me on Saturday during tennis at 7:30am and we have 12 guys on 3 courts playing doubles
Tennis friend is not even on my court and some profanity laced tirade comes flying out of my mouth and I have heard him ask others to stop cussing and he finally did it to me
In front of everyone from a different court than the one I was playing doubles on...oh man you cannot imagine the emotions and feelings that were running thru my head.

I buried my mother when she was 46 and I was 21, that does not give me the right to say anything I want but I'll be damned if I'm going to be chastised about it
I try hard to not say JC and the GD around this guy out of respect for what he's done for me and he's done many things along the way, in general I think he's a good dude.
But I had to be restrained because those that were on my court know how I can fly off the handle when i take offense to what someone is saying or trying to do to me
I did not want to say something I would likely regret later but I was about to kick him out of rotation on Saturdays, that came out of my mouth

He said "sorry" and fist bumped me at the end of the tennis, I don't know what to do...i guess forgive and try again but he has become adamant about anyone that cusses around him and I want to know where it says you can't say S word, F Bombs and the like, where is that written in the bible? Where is he getting this like it's against his religion when folks cuss around him
He's pushed it the last several weeks, he's done it to others on previous weeks, he just hadn't done it to me.
Last week he threatened to leave and i convinced him to stay but it irked me then and it got worse yesterday

FWIW - We do ask that folks keep language PG rated here. But language is pretty far down the list of important things for a Christian in my opinion.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Why would aliens present a problem to Biblical literalists?

Because the mythists would insufferable placing Jesus' ministry and crucifixion on an alien planet

Have you ever heard of CS Lewis' Space Trilogy? He has an interesting treatment of this topic.

Not enought to intelligently reply to your post. Sorry.

 

[Psychopav]

Was he exalted? Or was he just always was?
Yes!

Why can't it be both?

Sure, but for that to work Jesus had to be something lesser than God (the father) from the beginning to whenever he was exalted, because other wise he would need to be raised (exalted) to a status greater than that of God. If Jesus was always co-equal to God since the beginning, or simply just God as some simplify then how could there be a higher status to achieve? Throw the Gospel of John, or at least some of the most popular parts away and this isn't so much of a problem. But much of the third, fourth, and fifth centuries was about making John "win" at the expense of these alternative heresies.

The Gospel of John won the day, more so than pretty much anything else. While as a believer I have to think that this is as God intended, as a flawed human being I think I would have preferred otherwise. I can relate to, be more impressed by in human terms a Jesus that proves us mere humans can fully serve God's will and be rewarded to the extreme. I cannot relate that much to someone with a divine "cheat code" taking a few days (in relative terms to eternity) and roughing it as a mere human. The Gospel of John makes it harder to figure out what being "a little Christ" looks like in the every day world. Maybe it helps with the salvation piece, but I've always just had faith that if grace is really grace by definition then that will work out anyway. (Edit: And if it does not then it probably doesn't matter anyway.]

I've been thinking about the first paragraph a bit, and I think this is similar to the mystery of the Trinity. We might also ask how Christ can "sit at the right hand of the Father" if they are coequal. It doesn't make logical sense for both to be correct, yet if you believe in the inerrancy of scripture then they surely are.

I'm thinking that the word "exalted" may be placed in human context. Christ is 100% human and 100% divine, and in His divine personhood, Christ has existed eternally, and has no beginning and no end. But He did not exist eternally as man; rather, He was incarnated in a specific time and place. So one way of thinking about this may be that while He was not exalted as related to God, with Whom He always was equal, He was exalted above all other men at a particular time.

Then the term itself is only used once in the New Testament, in Philippians 2:9. In the preceding text we read that Christ Himself chose to lower Himself in stature relative to the Father (see Phil 2:6-8). So from one perspective, the Father exalted him from His lower, humanly position.

I view this as a mystery that we might embrace through the eyes of faith.

 

[Psychopav]

Why would aliens present a problem to Biblical literalists?

Because the mythists would insufferable placing Jesus' ministry and crucifixion on an alien planet

Have you ever heard of CS Lewis' Space Trilogy? He has an interesting treatment of this topic.

Not enought to intelligently reply to your post. Sorry.

Ok, I only brought it up because I think he suggests one possible framework in which extraterrestrial life may exist and still maintain consistency with the Christian mythos. Lewis finds value in thinking about it this way because it allows him to explore the ideas of the fall and salvation in different ways than we are used to thinking about them.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Then the term itself is only used once in the New Testament, in Philippians 2:9. In the preceding text we read that Christ Himself chose to lower Himself in stature relative to the Father (see Phil 2:6-8). So from one perspective, the Father exalted him from His lower, humanly position.

My understanding is that there are scholars that have spent their entire careers with nothing but Philippians 2:6-11. It is largely believed that Paul is quoting something that predates him. It is fascinating. This passage tag teams with Romans 5 to show Jesus as the anti Adam. Adam was nothing and tried to be on God's level bringing death via sin. Jesus was [maybe] on God's level and lowered himself to nothing resulting in life despite sin. Very simple and incredibly complex at the same time.

Christ is 100% human and 100% divine

Are there 100% divine being that are not God, or the stuff of God, or on God's level? Things like angels? Would Satan and demons be considered divine? There are arguments, minority opinions that for Paul Jesus was an angel before being exalted which makes some things fit better. So there are ways around most of this. It is just that the Gospel of John, at least how typically interpeted overwhelms everything else. The Gospel of John has Jesus on God's level - period! He spends much of the gospel, unlike in the synoptics doing signs to prove it.

I view this as a mystery that we might embrace through the eyes of faith.

Agree. The thought exercise is mostly just that. I think the only "wrong" answers come from those that argue there is no mystery and there is exactly one way to look at this. The nature of scripture to me is largely to trigger questions, trigger these thought exercises. And out of nowhere seemingly to redirect your thoughts when you need that the most. Maybe for some it simply provides answers, for me it provides questions and for me that is much more valuable.

 

[Paddington]

Why would aliens present a problem to Biblical literalists?

It would seem to challenge the earth focused creation story of Genesis along with humans being God's special creation in the center of it all. I'd guess you'd explain that this is still true without much difficulty as long as the evidence doesn't show the aliens are that much more advanced whether in technology or benevolence. I'd think that whether or not God's plan for redemption, for salvation applied to the aliens could easily be punted with the Bible being silent on aliens shouldn't be interpreted as the Bible claiming that aliens don't exist.

The most difficult challenges would seem to be the "science" of the Bible and reconciling the timeline. But even here, we have evidence of human presence that is more than 6000 years into the past and the beliefs continue on so not that much of a challenge.

So as I suggested, small adjustments here and there and then moving on.

It depends on who you talk to and tbeir interpretation of the actual evidence and honesty about the evidence. There is censored evidence also. I believe that, at a minimum, man has been on the earth 6000 years. The age if the actual planet is debatable, but I tend to believe in a young earth. Part of me doesn't. There are young earth and old earth creationists. I am certainly a creationist, rejecting Darwinian Evolution. The evidence used to support Darwinian Evolution is actual examples.of Micro Evolution, aka Lateral Adaptation, within the species. You never see one animal kind transitioning into another. Horses always stay horses. Dogs always stay dogs, ect. Darwinian Evolutionists use different breeds of dogs, cats, horses to try to prove that one animal kind evolved into another. The fossil record does not support this and neither does the Bible.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Why would aliens present a problem to Biblical literalists?

It would seem to challenge the earth focused creation story of Genesis along with humans being God's special creation in the center of it all. I'd guess you'd explain that this is still true without much difficulty as long as the evidence doesn't show the aliens are that much more advanced whether in technology or benevolence. I'd think that whether or not God's plan for redemption, for salvation applied to the aliens could easily be punted with the Bible being silent on aliens shouldn't be interpreted as the Bible claiming that aliens don't exist.

The most difficult challenges would seem to be the "science" of the Bible and reconciling the timeline. But even here, we have evidence of human presence that is more than 6000 years into the past and the beliefs continue on so not that much of a challenge.

So as I suggested, small adjustments here and there and then moving on.

It depends on who you talk to and tbeir interpretation of the actual evidence and honesty about the evidence. There is censored evidence also. I believe that, at a minimum, man has been on the earth 6000 years. The age if the actual planet is debatable, but I tend to believe in a young earth. Part of me doesn't. There are young earth and old earth creationists. I am certainly a creationist, rejecting Darwinian Evolution. The evidence used to support Darwinian Evolution is actual examples.of Micro Evolution, aka Lateral Adaptation, within the species. You never see one animal kind transitioning into another. Horses always stay horses. Dogs always stay dogs, ect. Darwinian Evolutionists use different breeds of dogs, cats, horses to try to prove that one animal kind evolved into another. The fossil record does not support this and neither does the Bible.

I'm neither inclined nor qualified to enter into a conversation about creationism versus evolution. The point I made is that I think that the beliefs of someone that is a young earth creationist as compared to most any other "flavor" of Christianity would be most challenged by an alien from space. But even then, not much more than just small adjustments, mostly in presentation would be required to continue on mostly unchanged in beliefs. So undisputable evidence of such an alien would impact Christians from very small to not at all in my opinion. It might be earth shattering in other areas of life, but not so much for most when it comes to faith. Agree? Disagree?

Again, not qualified to throw cold water on your post from a factual perspective, but from an opinion of God I think asserting that God created the universe more or less to his liking (as evident by the lack of observed supernatural corrections) using tools like evolution enhances my view of God. And the God that just creates everything individually diminishes my view. Makes God less believable not because God couldn't have done it this way, but because why would he? If God is eternal, and at least close to perfect then I would think God would have the necessary patience to watch his will happen via nature. And the necessary knowledge and skill to make it happen. Other choices create, for me at least an inferior god.

 

[Paddington]

Why would aliens present a problem to Biblical literalists?

It would seem to challenge the earth focused creation story of Genesis along with humans being God's special creation in the center of it all. I'd guess you'd explain that this is still true without much difficulty as long as the evidence doesn't show the aliens are that much more advanced whether in technology or benevolence. I'd think that whether or not God's plan for redemption, for salvation applied to the aliens could easily be punted with the Bible being silent on aliens shouldn't be interpreted as the Bible claiming that aliens don't exist.

The most difficult challenges would seem to be the "science" of the Bible and reconciling the timeline. But even here, we have evidence of human presence that is more than 6000 years into the past and the beliefs continue on so not that much of a challenge.

So as I suggested, small adjustments here and there and then moving on.

It depends on who you talk to and tbeir interpretation of the actual evidence and honesty about the evidence. There is censored evidence also. I believe that, at a minimum, man has been on the earth 6000 years. The age if the actual planet is debatable, but I tend to believe in a young earth. Part of me doesn't. There are young earth and old earth creationists. I am certainly a creationist, rejecting Darwinian Evolution. The evidence used to support Darwinian Evolution is actual examples.of Micro Evolution, aka Lateral Adaptation, within the species. You never see one animal kind transitioning into another. Horses always stay horses. Dogs always stay dogs, ect. Darwinian Evolutionists use different breeds of dogs, cats, horses to try to prove that one animal kind evolved into another. The fossil record does not support this and neither does the Bible.

I'm neither inclined nor qualified to enter into a conversation about creationism versus evolution. The point I made is that I think that the beliefs of someone that is a young earth creationist as compared to most any other "flavor" of Christianity would be most challenged by an alien from space. But even then, not much more than just small adjustments, mostly in presentation would be required to continue on mostly unchanged in beliefs. So undisputable evidence of such an alien would impact Christians from very small to not at all in my opinion. It might be earth shattering in other areas of life, but not so much for most when it comes to faith. Agree? Disagree?

Again, not qualified to throw cold water on your post from a factual perspective, but from an opinion of God I think asserting that God created the universe more or less to his liking (as evident by the lack of observed supernatural corrections) using tools like evolution enhances my view of God. And the God that just creates everything individually diminishes my view. Makes God less believable not because God couldn't have done it this way, but because why would he? If God is eternal, and at least close to perfect then I would think God would have the necessary patience to watch his will happen via nature. And the necessary knowledge and skill to make it happen. Other choices create, for me at least an inferior god.

I agree that if aliens were discovered to exist that I would not change much in the way of christianity. I don't believe that aliens exist. I do believe however that demon experience impersonate aliens. I believe that the Demonic Spirits also impersonate ghosts and things like that.

I believe that God created everything and it's completed State however I believe that he did allow for lateral adaptation. This is a type of evolution that is within the species. In other words the different breeds of dogs the different breeds of cats Etc but they always stay dogs and cats. The same goes for all other animals types. So your view that you prefer is partially correct in my opinion. I believe that God created everything and it's completed state but I also believe that things can change Within limits. I certainly don't believe that human beings evolved from a single cell creature.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I believe that God created everything and it's completed State

Problem here is that I don't think much of anything is ever in a "complete" state. The universe is dynamic, ever changing. I guess it will be complete if all matter decays releasing energy too spaced out to be meaningful in any way, but otherwise it is all just points on a timeline. So the entire premise of "complete state" here is flawed. It is meaningless and/or arbitrary. Because if you arbitrarily argue that things are in a "complete state" now and must have been a second ago and a day ago and a year ago and hundred years ago and a thousand years ago, certainly roughly 2000 years ago, and 6000 years ago then why is 13.8 billion years ago any less complete?

I certainly don't believe that human beings evolved from a single cell creature.

Like a zygote? We're not talking science here, but a creator. If God would program nature such that a single cell, sure a particular single cell specifically designed to develop in about 9 months into a recognizable, if far from complete human being why would we not think that God would program nature such a that some other single cell, specifically designed by God would over billions of years develop into a recognizable, if far from complete human being? And lots and lots of other things along the way? Isn't this precisely the God that is and has been revealing himself, revealing his nature every single instance of existence since the start of time? I think so, and think limiting God to what God could explain to his special creation 3300 years ago diminishes God. Just like I think, assuming there are humans still around in 3300 years from now that limiting God to our understanding will also dimish God.

 

[Captain Cranks]

My sister has been routinely asking for prayers for her father in law who is having significant health issues. I finally got up the gumption to ask my other sister, who is also Christian, "What are we supposed to be praying for?" She asked what I meant and I explained, "Is the thought that God is going to intercede on the events and that would only happen if we ask him to?"

She admitted that ever since our mother died of cancer when she was only 50, she's struggled with the notion of asking for things in prayer. Instead, she prays for peace and comfort which she gets. From a psychological standpoint that makes sense to me. In a similar conversation, I think Joe mentioned there's a communal benefit of feeling support by asking others to pray which also makes sense to me.

Thoughts? I realize this post is out of left field so feel free to ignore as you please.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

My sister has been routinely asking for prayers for her father in law who is having significant health issues. I finally got up the gumption to ask my other sister, who is also Christian, "What are we supposed to be praying for?" She asked what I meant and I explained, "Is the thought that God is going to intercede on the events and that would only happen if we ask him to?"

She admitted that ever since our mother died of cancer when she was only 50, she's struggled with the notion of asking for things in prayer. Instead, she prays for peace and comfort which she gets. From a psychological standpoint that makes sense to me. In a similar conversation, I think Joe mentioned there's a communal benefit of feeling support by asking others to pray which also makes sense to me.

Thoughts? I realize this post is out of left field so feel free to ignore as you please.

Prayer is something that in some ways also troubles me, but first.

This past Sunday I was assisting and the first reading was Genesis 18:20-32. This is, on the surface an utterly absurd passage where Abraham openly questions God's morality as they hang outside of Sodom and Gomorroh while others proceeded to Sodom. It is absurd because seemingly Abraham is negotiating with God on how many good people can be destroyed along with the wicked. That is "on the surface", I think when you get passed the literal text there is a deeper, more satisfying meaning to the passage but in any case, while not really a prayer this is one of at least a handful of passages where God seems to be negotiating. Another one of these, Exodus 32:14 Moses is said to even change God's mind in one of these back and forths.

Finally, there is the "Lord's Prayer". This was, per the Gospels Jesus teaching how to pray. In a sense it is outright making demand on God. "Give us!" "Forgive us!" So within scripture we are more less taught that we should directly ask for things and that God, at least sometimes even changes his mind as a result,

That last part is the problem for me. God's plan is really going to be altered at my request? Wouldn't my request already be known to God well before I made it and be already "baked in" to God's plan? It just quickly turns into a logical conundrum trying to make sense of prayer from God's perspective. The best I can come up with is that God can handle those demands from his kids like an adult.

But for me, I don't really fall to my knees and offer up a stereotypical prayer all that often. Instead it is more like a running conversation. And like your sister I find comfort in this conversation. I have more than once stated here that I may very well be just talking to myself. I get that. But even if that is the case I find this conversation more than just comforting, but all too often I come away with new ways of thinking about things. This conversation is productive, even if it is just between my conscious and subconscious.

Finally, when assisting there is also the reading of the "Prayers of Intercession" which are pretty much the same template every week of asking for general stuff such as a greater understanding of God, wisdom to decision makers, protect members of the church away doing military service or similar, provide comfort to the sick, look after other churches, etc. And then one of the weekly (or at least most weeks) songs has a line "Gather the hopes and dreams of all and unite them with the prayers we offer now". I think that this type of "corporate" prayer helps recharge one for the week ahead.

So long story short, I think prayer is mostly to comfort, strengthen, and guide the person doing the praying. God gets out of the prayer a running conversation with his child, or better wording "a relationship". And while praying by its very nature tends to be making demand and asking for stuff of a God that already knows better than us, God still wants this.

Or, humans (at least most it appears) are just wired to talk to them self. Either way...

 

[dkp993]

I don't believe that aliens exist. I do believe however that demon experience impersonate aliens. I believe that the Demonic Spirits also impersonate ghosts and things like that.

Thanks Paddington for your honest answer. And as a quick side note, thank you for your stylistic change from statements of fact to your belief or opinion, it greatly improves the dialogue and discussion. Thank you.

Addressing your response above, this unfortunately was the answer I feared I’d receive and how I believe many devout literalists Christians like yourself would react if my hypothetical question were to happen. In my opinion that’s scary and will create some real issues if the hypothetical were to become true.

 

[dgreen]

My sister has been routinely asking for prayers for her father in law who is having significant health issues. I finally got up the gumption to ask my other sister, who is also Christian, "What are we supposed to be praying for?" She asked what I meant and I explained, "Is the thought that God is going to intercede on the events and that would only happen if we ask him to?"

She admitted that ever since our mother died of cancer when she was only 50, she's struggled with the notion of asking for things in prayer. Instead, she prays for peace and comfort which she gets. From a psychological standpoint that makes sense to me. In a similar conversation, I think Joe mentioned there's a communal benefit of feeling support by asking others to pray which also makes sense to me.

Thoughts? I realize this post is out of left field so feel free to ignore as you please.

I've always struggled with prayer.

I do like the ideas I've heard about prayer just meaning "talking to God" and that he, like a good father, just wants us to talk to him about our lives. As a dad, I can relate to that. I remember my daughter once just sitting down at the table with me while I was eating breakfast and she just started talking to me. Several minutes into it, I just thought, "Whoa, this is awesome. We are just here having an adult conversation about what's going on in her life." So, I try to see it that way in my prayers, but too often I feel like I'm treating God like a vending machine and those times just don't feel like a conversation with a father. Whenever I'm asking for something, I find myself feeling like I have to word things just the right way. Now that I think about it, that's probably true when I'm asking anyone for anything. I'm usually hesitant to ask people for things.

 

[Psychopav]

I mostly believe in ghosts in part because Jesus told his apostles that He wasn't one.

I don't particularly believe that aliens have been to earth but it wouldn't surprise me if there is life out there somewhere.

 

[Psychopav]

My sister has been routinely asking for prayers for her father in law who is having significant health issues. I finally got up the gumption to ask my other sister, who is also Christian, "What are we supposed to be praying for?" She asked what I meant and I explained, "Is the thought that God is going to intercede on the events and that would only happen if we ask him to?"

She admitted that ever since our mother died of cancer when she was only 50, she's struggled with the notion of asking for things in prayer. Instead, she prays for peace and comfort which she gets. From a psychological standpoint that makes sense to me. In a similar conversation, I think Joe mentioned there's a communal benefit of feeling support by asking others to pray which also makes sense to me.

Thoughts? I realize this post is out of left field so feel free to ignore as you please.

CS Lewis writes about the meaning and value of intercessory prayer in Letters to Malcolm. In that book, he argues that while God clearly does not need our intercessory prayer, He also clearly instructs us to practice it. Lewis sees it (and I agree) as part of a "both/and" scenario where God is allowing us to participate in His plan. It's good for us in that it both helps us to build relationship with Him and also to reinforce our dependence upon Him (in a "...if it be Your will, but not my will but thine be done" sense). Lewis also points out that while WE may not always know what's best for us, the Lord does. So while our prayers are based on our desires, He will only give us what we desire to the extent that it is within His will (that is, good for us).

Finally, and I can't recall whether Lewis mentions this or not, but in my view intercessory prayer underscores the communal aspect of our faith. We don't exist in a vacuum or even a vacuum of two (us and the trinity), but in a community of believers, and intercessory prayer reinforces that as well.

 

[dkp993]

I don't particularly believe that aliens have been to earth but it wouldn't surprise me if there is life out there somewhere

Thanks.

And to be clear, my original question wasn’t intended to open the debate on if Aliens are real or have been here. Just the hypothetical IF it was proven undeniably they are real what the reaction would be from organized religion.

 

[Paddington]

I don't believe that aliens exist. I do believe however that demon experience impersonate aliens. I believe that the Demonic Spirits also impersonate ghosts and things like that.

Thanks Paddington for your honest answer. And as a quick side note, thank you for your stylistic change from statements of fact to your belief or opinion, it greatly improves the dialogue and discussion. Thank you.

Addressing your response above, this unfortunately was the answer I feared I’d receive and how I believe many devout literalists Christians like yourself would react if my hypothetical question were to happen. In my opinion that’s scary and will create some real issues if the hypothetical were to become true.

I did my research on UFOs. As a result I came under great attack from demonic spirits. I did a lot of research and came across an article of someone who had been researching dozens and dozens of accounts of alien abductions. This person was not necessarily a Christian, but what they noticed was that every time there was an alien abduction and the name of Christ was invoked, the abduction immediately stopped. I know other people who have had grandiose experiences with aliens and demons. I don't really have a fear of If there really were aliens, I know that God would work that out. All my research has confirmed in my mind that ufos, ghosts, aliens, and such things are demonic spirits.

 

[Zow]

I don't believe that aliens exist. I do believe however that demon experience impersonate aliens. I believe that the Demonic Spirits also impersonate ghosts and things like that.

Thanks Paddington for your honest answer. And as a quick side note, thank you for your stylistic change from statements of fact to your belief or opinion, it greatly improves the dialogue and discussion. Thank you.

Addressing your response above, this unfortunately was the answer I feared I’d receive and how I believe many devout literalists Christians like yourself would react if my hypothetical question were to happen. In my opinion that’s scary and will create some real issues if the hypothetical were to become true.

I did my research on UFOs. As a result I came under great attack from demonic spirits. I did a lot of research and came across an article of someone who had been researching dozens and dozens of accounts of alien abductions. This person was not necessarily a Christian, but what they noticed was that every time there was an alien abduction and the name of Christ was invoked, the abduction immediately stopped. I know other people who have had grandiose experiences with aliens and demons. I don't really have a fear of If there really were aliens, I know that God would work that out. All my research has confirmed in my mind that ufos, ghosts, aliens, and such things are demonic spirits.

I ask this genuinely, can you elaborate on the bold?

 

[Zow]

I don't particularly believe that aliens have been to earth but it wouldn't surprise me if there is life out there somewhere

Thanks.

And to be clear, my original question wasn’t intended to open the debate on if Aliens are real or have been here. Just the hypothetical IF it was proven undeniably they are real what the reaction would be from organized religion.

Like we see with the numerous different interpretations of the Bible about organized religions, we'd probably see numerous different interpretations if it was confirmed that aliens exist.

(My personal thought or prediction is that if the confirmed aliens were human-like and both benevolent and malevolent in that they'd be explained as the angels and demons from scripture and tied into G/god somehow)

 

[Sparky Polastri]

My sister has been routinely asking for prayers for her father in law who is having significant health issues. I finally got up the gumption to ask my other sister, who is also Christian, "What are we supposed to be praying for?" She asked what I meant and I explained, "Is the thought that God is going to intercede on the events and that would only happen if we ask him to?"

She admitted that ever since our mother died of cancer when she was only 50, she's struggled with the notion of asking for things in prayer. Instead, she prays for peace and comfort which she gets. From a psychological standpoint that makes sense to me. In a similar conversation, I think Joe mentioned there's a communal benefit of feeling support by asking others to pray which also makes sense to me.

Thoughts? I realize this post is out of left field so feel free to ignore as you please.

I've always struggled with prayer.

I do like the ideas I've heard about prayer just meaning "talking to God" and that he, like a good father, just wants us to talk to him about our lives. As a dad, I can relate to that. I remember my daughter once just sitting down at the table with me while I was eating breakfast and she just started talking to me. Several minutes into it, I just thought, "Whoa, this is awesome. We are just here having an adult conversation about what's going on in her life." So, I try to see it that way in my prayers, but too often I feel like I'm treating God like a vending machine and those times just don't feel like a conversation with a father. Whenever I'm asking for something, I find myself feeling like I have to word things just the right way. Now that I think about it, that's probably true when I'm asking anyone for anything. I'm usually hesitant to ask people for things.

I think this is all part of the struggle for all of us on our journey. It changes with practice. Speaking personally, my game has changed dramatically in the last couple years. Convos with my dad and God have morphed my approach. Far more conversational than anything now. To the original question, when I hear "pray for....." I hear "please keep them in your thoughts and send all the good vibes you can so they might be comforted". I get that might seem odd to those who aren't practicing a particular faith, but think about what it's like when you have a loved one in the hospital after an accident or something. Everyone is congregated in the waiting room waiting for the news on a diagnosis or update on a status/surgery etc. They are just supporting each other and being there. "Please pray for...." is the remote request for that sort of support.

 

[Paddington]

I don't believe that aliens exist. I do believe however that demon experience impersonate aliens. I believe that the Demonic Spirits also impersonate ghosts and things like that.

Thanks Paddington for your honest answer. And as a quick side note, thank you for your stylistic change from statements of fact to your belief or opinion, it greatly improves the dialogue and discussion. Thank you.

Addressing your response above, this unfortunately was the answer I feared I’d receive and how I believe many devout literalists Christians like yourself would react if my hypothetical question were to happen. In my opinion that’s scary and will create some real issues if the hypothetical were to become true.

I did my research on UFOs. As a result I came under great attack from demonic spirits. I did a lot of research and came across an article of someone who had been researching dozens and dozens of accounts of alien abductions. This person was not necessarily a Christian, but what they noticed was that every time there was an alien abduction and the name of Christ was invoked, the abduction immediately stopped. I know other people who have had grandiose experiences with aliens and demons. I don't really have a fear of If there really were aliens, I know that God would work that out. All my research has confirmed in my mind that ufos, ghosts, aliens, and such things are demonic spirits.

I ask this genuinely, can you elaborate on the bold?

Yes, but I can't right now. I will elaborate on this when I get time.

 

[rockaction]

I came in to this thread to post a lighthearted and non-mocking joke, but I’m backing out of here like the Kool-Aid guy in the Family Guy pilot.

Oh yeah!

 

[Paddington]

I came in to this thread to post a lighthearted and non-mocking joke, but I’m backing out of here like the Kool-Aid guy in the Family Guy pilot.

Oh yeah!

I can take a joke as long as it isn't mocking God.

 

[Paddington]

I came in to this thread to post a lighthearted and non-mocking joke, but I’m backing out of here like the Kool-Aid guy in the Family Guy pilot.

Oh yeah!

I can take a joke as long as it isn't mocking God.

Oh. Dude. You’re not a moderator here and I was not worried about your sensitivities.

Well, I thought you were a polite guy, but I guess not. Like I said, I can take a joke as long as it isn't mocking God. I am also not worried about your sensitivities.

 

[rockaction]

I came in to this thread to post a lighthearted and non-mocking joke, but I’m backing out of here like the Kool-Aid guy in the Family Guy pilot.

Oh yeah!

I can take a joke as long as it isn't mocking God.

Oh. Dude. You’re not a moderator here and I was not worried about your sensitivities.

Well, I thought you were a polite guy, but I guess not. Like I said, I can take a joke as long as it isn't mocking God. I am also not worried about your sensitivities.

I don't think it's an issue of politeness and I'd like to welcome you but you've been here a while—you know the deal. There really isn't an excuse for me to say "please" or "thank you" and win back my politeness bona fides, but I don't think what I said was rude. It might have been terse and I can tell you where that comes from but I'm not sure it's entirely fair. I am very wary of evangelical Christians talking about or implying that there will or should be standards that prohibit joking about God. I was born and raised Catholic. I was confirmed but I no longer belong to the Church.

That does not mean I am a militant atheist or somebody who uses terms like "Sky Daddy" and such. I find disrespect odious, and quite frankly, it's because I'm not rude.

But I do think that asserting my right to tell a joke about God in a public forum is something I take very seriously. I've always been more worried about the left in America than the right (I don't know too many Catholics and evangelicals who were bombing federal buildings in the late-'60s through the mid-'70s, but we sure know that certain communist professors were). That said, I have not seen great writings or any movement towards liberty coming out of either the Catholic Church in America nor the evangelicals of the same in about twenty years now. In fact, one institution and one diffuse group have both made giant strides towards theocracy and illiberalism.

So my sin is not rudeness, it might be that I'm judging you by association and that I'm extrapolating how intolerant you seem of others' beliefs and imagining you with unfettered power. I'm reading your stringent protocols and requirements and I can easily see that spilling over into the sociopolitical realm. If I am wrong and you believe in the basic tenets of secular natural law I have nothing but apologies. But you don't strike me as the guy who would write A Letter Concerning Toleration or the guy who would save me from kindled tinder for being a heretic. In fact, I’d leave you the Emo Philips religion joke I love so much, but you strike me as not having denominational issues so much as a tolerance issue in general. That said, I am not completely positive of either of those statements so I’ll just leave it all alone and respect the thread by leaving it. Thank you (there we go!) and good day to you.

eta* edited for clarity. Thank you again and have a blessed day.

 

[Paddington]

I came in to this thread to post a lighthearted and non-mocking joke, but I’m backing out of here like the Kool-Aid guy in the Family Guy pilot.

Oh yeah!

I can take a joke as long as it isn't mocking God.

Oh. Dude. You’re not a moderator here and I was not worried about your sensitivities.

Well, I thought you were a polite guy, but I guess not. Like I said, I can take a joke as long as it isn't mocking God. I am also not worried about your sensitivities.

I don't think it's an issue of politeness and I'd like to welcome you but you've been here a while—you know the deal. There really isn't an excuse for me to say "please" or "thank you" and win back my politeness bona fides, but I don't think what I said was rude. It might have been terse and I can tell you where that comes from but I'm not sure it's entirely fair. I am very wary of evangelical Christians talking or implying standards and nodding at prohibiting joking about God. I was born and raised Catholic. I was confirmed but I no longer belong to the Church.

That does not mean I am a militant atheist or somebody who uses terms like "Sky Daddy" and such. I find disrespect odious, and quite frankly, it's because I'm not rude.

But I do think that asserting my right to tell a joke about God in a public forum is something I take very seriously. I've always been more worried about the left in America than the right (I don't know too many Catholics and evangelicals who were bombing federal buildings in the late-'60s through the mid-'70s, but we sure as hell know that certain communist professors were). That said, I have not seen great writings or any movement towards liberty coming out of either the Catholic Church in America nor the evangelicals of the same in about twenty years now.

So my sin is not rudeness, it's judging you by association and how you are intolerant of anybody else regarding the Gates of Heaven and your stringent protocols and requirements. I can easily see that spilling over into the sociopolitical realm. If I am wrong I have nothing but apologies. But you don't strike me as the guy who would write A Letter Concerning Toleration or that would save me from kindled tinder for being a heretic. In fact, I’d leave you the Emo Philips religion joke I love so much, but you strike me as not having denominational issues so much as a tolerance issue in general, but I am not completely positive of either of those statements so I’ll just leave it all alone and respect the thread by leaving it. Thank you (there we go!) and good day to you.

Ok then.

 

[Paddington]

I came in to this thread to post a lighthearted and non-mocking joke, but I’m backing out of here like the Kool-Aid guy in the Family Guy pilot.

Oh yeah!

I can take a joke as long as it isn't mocking God.

Oh. Dude. You’re not a moderator here and I was not worried about your sensitivities.

Well, I thought you were a polite guy, but I guess not. Like I said, I can take a joke as long as it isn't mocking God. I am also not worried about your sensitivities.

I don't think it's an issue of politeness and I'd like to welcome you but you've been here a while—you know the deal. There really isn't an excuse for me to say "please" or "thank you" and win back my politeness bona fides, but I don't think what I said was rude. It might have been terse and I can tell you where that comes from but I'm not sure it's entirely fair. I am very wary of evangelical Christians talking about or implying that there will or should be standards that prohibit joking about God. I was born and raised Catholic. I was confirmed but I no longer belong to the Church.

That does not mean I am a militant atheist or somebody who uses terms like "Sky Daddy" and such. I find disrespect odious, and quite frankly, it's because I'm not rude.

But I do think that asserting my right to tell a joke about God in a public forum is something I take very seriously. I've always been more worried about the left in America than the right (I don't know too many Catholics and evangelicals who were bombing federal buildings in the late-'60s through the mid-'70s, but we sure know that certain communist professors were). That said, I have not seen great writings or any movement towards liberty coming out of either the Catholic Church in America nor the evangelicals of the same in about twenty years now. In fact, one institution and one diffuse group have both made giant strides towards theocracy and illiberalism.

So my sin is not rudeness, it might be that I'm judging you by association and that I'm extrapolating how intolerant you seem of others' beliefs and imagining you with unfettered power. I'm reading your stringent protocols and requirements and I can easily see that spilling over into the sociopolitical realm. If I am wrong and you believe in the basic tenets of secular natural law I have nothing but apologies. But you don't strike me as the guy who would write A Letter Concerning Toleration or the guy who would save me from kindled tinder for being a heretic. In fact, I’d leave you the Emo Philips religion joke I love so much, but you strike me as not having denominational issues so much as a tolerance issue in general. That said, I am not completely positive of either of those statements so I’ll just leave it all alone and respect the thread by leaving it. Thank you (there we go!) and good day to you.

eta* edited for clarity. Thank you again and have a blessed day.

Well one thing that I believe is that you were in the wrong denomination. Catholicism is not going to teach you proper biblical understanding because they don't believe in solace scriptura.

I do believe that I have the truth of the word of God, the Bible on my side. Of course I am not perfect and I do not know everything.

As far as tolerance goes, I believe in tolerance, but I don't believe that that means I have to agree with others. I'm not going to pretend that I agree with something that I don't agree with. It doesn't mean that I think I know everything. It means that I am confident in the things that I know and have done a lot of research on them.

If you ever want to have respectful discussion based on factual amd biblical information, I am here.

Take care