Doc Who Tied Vaccine to Autism Ruled Unethical (1 Viewer)

[Sarnoff]

He was in it for the money (obviously)

Wakefield planned to make a fortune developing his own supposedly safer vaccines and diagnostic testing kits once the public's confidence in the safety of current vaccines was shaken.

According to Deer, Wakefield expected to earn over $40 million each year from selling his diagnostic kits -- a fact at odds with Wakefield's portrayal of himself as a selfless researcher whose only motivation was helping children harmed by vaccines.

 

[RudiStein]

Regarding McCarthy's misguided antics on autism (from Wikipedia):

McCarthy's public presence, and vocal activism on the vaccination-autism controversy, led to her being awarded The James Randi Educational Foundation's Pigasus Award (awards granted by Randi for contributing to pseudoscientific ideas) for the 'Performer Who Has Fooled The Greatest Number of People with The Least Amount of Effort'. Randi stated in a video on the JREF's website that he did sympathize with the plight of McCarthy and her child, but admonished her for using her public presence in a way that may discourage parents from having their own children vaccinated.

I like her boobs.

Randi rules.

Randi has exposed lots of paranormal and religious frauds - I'm glad he's involved in the medical field. He's a fascinating guy, who hung out with Asimov and Carl Sagan.A few years ago he brought his talents to Ft. Lauderdale. This is from the Miami New Times of August 2009:

"To illustrate how easily spiritual leaders can garner followers, Randi and Alvarez, a visual artist, perpetuated a hoax on Australian national television in 1988. Alvarez pretended his body was inhabited by "Carlos," a 1,500-year-old fortuneteller. Within days, Alvarez had thousands of followers. "It was just so easy," Alvarez says. "It's sad and remarkable."

One of the biggest frauds, faith healer Peter Popoff, went bankrupt in 1987 after Randi exposed him. But Popoff is back in business sellling healing water and sand and reportedly bought a 4 million dollar home in Bradbury California and owns a Bentley.

Randi lives in FLA somewhere I think.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Regarding McCarthy's misguided antics on autism (from Wikipedia):

McCarthy's public presence, and vocal activism on the vaccination-autism controversy, led to her being awarded The James Randi Educational Foundation's Pigasus Award (awards granted by Randi for contributing to pseudoscientific ideas) for the 'Performer Who Has Fooled The Greatest Number of People with The Least Amount of Effort'. Randi stated in a video on the JREF's website that he did sympathize with the plight of McCarthy and her child, but admonished her for using her public presence in a way that may discourage parents from having their own children vaccinated.

I like her boobs.

Randi rules.

Randi has exposed lots of paranormal and religious frauds - I'm glad he's involved in the medical field. He's a fascinating guy, who hung out with Asimov and Carl Sagan.A few years ago he brought his talents to Ft. Lauderdale. This is from the Miami New Times of August 2009:

"To illustrate how easily spiritual leaders can garner followers, Randi and Alvarez, a visual artist, perpetuated a hoax on Australian national television in 1988. Alvarez pretended his body was inhabited by "Carlos," a 1,500-year-old fortuneteller. Within days, Alvarez had thousands of followers. "It was just so easy," Alvarez says. "It's sad and remarkable."

One of the biggest frauds, faith healer Peter Popoff, went bankrupt in 1987 after Randi exposed him. But Popoff is back in business sellling healing water and sand and reportedly bought a 4 million dollar home in Bradbury California and owns a Bentley.

Randi lives in FLA somewhere I think.

Randi is amazing. I saw him here in MN close to 15 years ago. He was signing autographs before the show, and I was in line to get in standing right next to him. He asked if I wanted to be part of the show and I said sure. He gave me a program, told me to pick out a page with text. I did. He then told me to pick any word on the page and circle it. All I had to do was tell him the page number. I held onto the program and at one point in the show he pulls me up and tells me the word I circled. Sure enough, he was right. I still have no idea how he did it.

 

[RudiStein]

Randi is amazing. I saw him here in MN close to 15 years ago. He was signing autographs before the show, and I was in line to get in standing right next to him. He asked if I wanted to be part of the show and I said sure. He gave me a program, told me to pick out a page with text. I did. He then told me to pick any word on the page and circle it. All I had to do was tell him the page number. I held onto the program and at one point in the show he pulls me up and tells me the word I circled. Sure enough, he was right. I still have no idea how he did it.

He's magic.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Randi is amazing. I saw him here in MN close to 15 years ago. He was signing autographs before the show, and I was in line to get in standing right next to him. He asked if I wanted to be part of the show and I said sure. He gave me a program, told me to pick out a page with text. I did. He then told me to pick any word on the page and circle it. All I had to do was tell him the page number. I held onto the program and at one point in the show he pulls me up and tells me the word I circled. Sure enough, he was right. I still have no idea how he did it.

He's magic.

 

[dagogrease]

http://www.naturalnews.com/031116_Dr_Andre...al_Journal.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/031117_BMJ_Dr_A..._Wakefield.html

 

[dagogrease]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-388051/Scientists-fear-MMR-link-autism.html

 

[Sconch]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-388051/Scientists-fear-MMR-link-autism.html

Is it just me or is that headline/article misleading?

 

[Lutherman2112]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-388051/Scientists-fear-MMR-link-autism.html

That article is from 2006. Here is a blog post from 2006 linking to the exact same Daily Mail story.The co-author of the study, Dr. Hepner, testified at the Omnibus Autism Proceeding. The study was funded by the National Autism Association (pro MMR vaccine/autism link group), had no control group, no sequence data, and was never published, so no peer review. The group merely presented their findings at an international conference on autism research.

Here's another from 2006: Wake Forest Researcher Warns Against Making Connection Between Presence of Measles Virus and Autism

 

[Jayrod]

While I'm still not exactly a fan of the volume of vaccines we have today, I've definitely had my personal beliefs influenced a great deal by this thread. I was railing this weekend to my wife about one of our friends who has not gotten any vaccines for her children. Apparently no pediatricians will see her children, so she is taking them to a chiropractor.

And this chick is very intelligent, just reading a lot of the wrong stuff I suppose.

 

[-fish-]

While I'm still not exactly a fan of the volume of vaccines we have today, I've definitely had my personal beliefs influenced a great deal by this thread. I was railing this weekend to my wife about one of our friends who has not gotten any vaccines for her children. Apparently no pediatricians will see her children, so she is taking them to a chiropractor.

And this chick is very intelligent, just reading a lot of the wrong stuff I suppose.

I do not think this means what you think it means.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

While I'm still not exactly a fan of the volume of vaccines we have today, I've definitely had my personal beliefs influenced a great deal by this thread. I was railing this weekend to my wife about one of our friends who has not gotten any vaccines for her children. Apparently no pediatricians will see her children, so she is taking them to a chiropractor.

And this chick is very intelligent, just reading a lot of the wrong stuff I suppose.

Yeah, that's why we just skipped Polio and Small Pox with our kids.

 

[jdoggydogg]

While I'm still not exactly a fan of the volume of vaccines we have today, I've definitely had my personal beliefs influenced a great deal by this thread. I was railing this weekend to my wife about one of our friends who has not gotten any vaccines for her children. Apparently no pediatricians will see her children, so she is taking them to a chiropractor. And this chick is very intelligent, just reading a lot of the wrong stuff I suppose.

Ahhhh Darwinism at its finest. Good news is she isn't smart, she's a misinformed moron. And if her poor kids die as a result of her idiocy, those stupid genes won't get passed on.

 

[dagogrease]

In 2008 Johns Hopkins Neurologist Jon Poling went public with the news that his daughter Hannah, who regressed into autism following her 18 month vaccines, was paid by the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

CDC, in a public statement, claimed that the Hannah Poling case was "rare" and should not be generalized to "normal" children. Days after the Poling's announcement, the Hiatt family also went public with their VICP ruling that their autistic daughter Madison was also a vaccine injury victim. Then the Banks family went public. Finally, CBS News reported finding 7 more vaccine/autism cases that dated back to 1991, the very beginning of the autism epidemic.

So the autism community wanted to know... just how many cases of autism have been paid by the program that was established in 1986, how "rare" is this, and what did the government know about vaccine injury and autism causation that they were not telling the public and the medical community. After being questioned by a journalist, the department of HHS that oversees the VICP issued the following statement on whether this was an admission that the government was now paying children for vaccine induced autism. The "official response" from HRSA:

"From: Bowman, David (HRSA) [mailtoBowman@hrsa.gov]

Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 5:22 PM

To: 'dkirby@nyc.rr.com'

Subject: HRSA Statement

David,

In response to your most recent inquiry, HRSA has the following

statement:

The government has never compensated, nor has it ever been ordered to

compensate, any case based on a determination that autism was actually

caused by vaccines. We have compensated cases in which children

exhibited an encephalopathy, or general brain disease. Encephalopathy

may be accompanied by a medical progression of an array of symptoms

including autistic behavior, autism, or seizures.

Some children who have been compensated for vaccine injuries may have

shown signs of autism before the decision to compensate, or may

ultimately end up with autism or autistic symptoms, but we do not track

cases on this basis.

Regards,

David Bowman

Office of Communications

Health Resources and Services Administration

301-443-3376"

This admission of a link to autism, and the disturbing revelation that the government was not even planning on counting how many autism cases it had paid from the vaccine injury fund, made it clear that HHS's claims of concern for the rise in autism rates and concern for vaccine safety were less than sincere, and that it was time for an investigation into the VICP to find out how many of the cases of vaccine induced encephalopathy (brain damage) resulted in "autistic behavior, autistic symptoms or autism" as Bowman had referenced.

Tomorrow the results of this two year investigation will be revealed and we will get a better look into what the government knows about vaccine/autism causation and how long they have known it.

Please tune in to the press conference tomorrow (streaming live on the internet at USTREAM), Tuesday, May 10 at Noon Eastern to the announcement take place on the steps of the US Supreme Court, that ruled only two months ago that vaccine injury cases would never be heard in a court of law, but must go through the corrupt Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

The EBCALA Press Release:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

ELIZABETH BIRT CENTER FOR AUTISM LAW AND ADVOCACY (EBCALA)

CONTACT NICOLE WILLIAMS

(301) 625-7772

OR

DANIELLE ORSINO

(480) 200-4411

Investigators and Families of Vaccine-Injured Children to Unveil Report Detailing Clear Vaccine-Autism Link Based on Government's Own Data

Report Demands Immediate Congressional Action

Directors of the Elizabeth Birt Center for Autism Law and Advocacy (EBCALA), parents and vaccine-injured children will hold a press conference on the steps of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims (717 Madison Place, NW in Washington, DC) on Tuesday, May 10 at 12:00 PM to unveil an investigation linking vaccine injury to autism. For over 20 years, the federal government has publicly denied a vaccine-autism link, while at the same time its Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) has been awarding damages for vaccine injury to children with brain damage, seizures and autism. This investigation, based on public, verifiable government data, breaks new ground in the controversial vaccine-autism debate.

The investigation found that a substantial number of children compensated for vaccine injury also have autism. The government has asserted that it "does not track" autism among the vaccine-injured. Based on this preliminary investigation, the evidence suggests that autism is at least three times more prevalent among vaccine-injured children than among children in the general population.

The federal government has called autism a "national health emergency," conservatively affecting 1 in 110 children and costing the country billions of dollars each year.

Because almost all children in the United States are required by law to receive between 30-45 vaccines in order to attend public school, it is crucial that the VICP decide cases with justice and transparency.

EBCALA and the families of the vaccine-injured call on Congress to investigate the VICP, the only forum in which parents may bring claims of vaccine injury on behalf of their children.

WHERE: United States Court of Claims

717 Madison Place, NW

Washington, DC

WHEN: Tuesday, May 10

12:00 PM noon

 

[matuski]

In 2008 Johns Hopkins Neurologist Jon Poling went public with the news that his daughter Hannah, who regressed into autism following her 18 month vaccines, was paid by the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.CDC, in a public statement, claimed that the Hannah Poling case was "rare" and should not be generalized to "normal" children. Days after the Poling's announcement, the Hiatt family also went public with their VICP ruling that their autistic daughter Madison was also a vaccine injury victim. Then the Banks family went public. Finally, CBS News reported finding 7 more vaccine/autism cases that dated back to 1991, the very beginning of the autism epidemic.So the autism community wanted to know... just how many cases of autism have been paid by the program that was established in 1986, how "rare" is this, and what did the government know about vaccine injury and autism causation that they were not telling the public and the medical community. After being questioned by a journalist, the department of HHS that oversees the VICP issued the following statement on whether this was an admission that the government was now paying children for vaccine induced autism. The "official response" from HRSA:"From: Bowman, David (HRSA) [mailtoBowman@hrsa.gov]Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 5:22 PMTo: 'dkirby@nyc.rr.com'Subject: HRSA StatementDavid,In response to your most recent inquiry, HRSA has the followingstatement:The government has never compensated, nor has it ever been ordered tocompensate, any case based on a determination that autism was actuallycaused by vaccines. We have compensated cases in which childrenexhibited an encephalopathy, or general brain disease. Encephalopathymay be accompanied by a medical progression of an array of symptomsincluding autistic behavior, autism, or seizures.Some children who have been compensated for vaccine injuries may haveshown signs of autism before the decision to compensate, or mayultimately end up with autism or autistic symptoms, but we do not trackcases on this basis.Regards,David BowmanOffice of CommunicationsHealth Resources and Services Administration301-443-3376"This admission of a link to autism, and the disturbing revelation that the government was not even planning on counting how many autism cases it had paid from the vaccine injury fund, made it clear that HHS's claims of concern for the rise in autism rates and concern for vaccine safety were less than sincere, and that it was time for an investigation into the VICP to find out how many of the cases of vaccine induced encephalopathy (brain damage) resulted in "autistic behavior, autistic symptoms or autism" as Bowman had referenced.Tomorrow the results of this two year investigation will be revealed and we will get a better look into what the government knows about vaccine/autism causation and how long they have known it.Please tune in to the press conference tomorrow (streaming live on the internet at USTREAM), Tuesday, May 10 at Noon Eastern to the announcement take place on the steps of the US Supreme Court, that ruled only two months ago that vaccine injury cases would never be heard in a court of law, but must go through the corrupt Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.The EBCALA Press Release:FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASEELIZABETH BIRT CENTER FOR AUTISM LAW AND ADVOCACY (EBCALA)CONTACT NICOLE WILLIAMS(301) 625-7772ORDANIELLE ORSINO(480) 200-4411Investigators and Families of Vaccine-Injured Children to Unveil Report Detailing Clear Vaccine-Autism Link Based on Government's Own DataReport Demands Immediate Congressional ActionDirectors of the Elizabeth Birt Center for Autism Law and Advocacy (EBCALA), parents and vaccine-injured children will hold a press conference on the steps of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims (717 Madison Place, NW in Washington, DC) on Tuesday, May 10 at 12:00 PM to unveil an investigation linking vaccine injury to autism. For over 20 years, the federal government has publicly denied a vaccine-autism link, while at the same time its Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) has been awarding damages for vaccine injury to children with brain damage, seizures and autism. This investigation, based on public, verifiable government data, breaks new ground in the controversial vaccine-autism debate.The investigation found that a substantial number of children compensated for vaccine injury also have autism. The government has asserted that it "does not track" autism among the vaccine-injured. Based on this preliminary investigation, the evidence suggests that autism is at least three times more prevalent among vaccine-injured children than among children in the general population.The federal government has called autism a "national health emergency," conservatively affecting 1 in 110 children and costing the country billions of dollars each year.Because almost all children in the United States are required by law to receive between 30-45 vaccines in order to attend public school, it is crucial that the VICP decide cases with justice and transparency.EBCALA and the families of the vaccine-injured call on Congress to investigate the VICP, the only forum in which parents may bring claims of vaccine injury on behalf of their children.WHERE: United States Court of Claims717 Madison Place, NWWashington, DCWHEN: Tuesday, May 1012:00 PM noon

I guarantee this guy is a birther.

 

[Charlie Frown]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-388051/Scientists-fear-MMR-link-autism.html

That article is from 2006. Here is a blog post from 2006 linking to the exact same Daily Mail story.The co-author of the study, Dr. Hepner, testified at the Omnibus Autism Proceeding. The study was funded by the National Autism Association (pro MMR vaccine/autism link group), had no control group, no sequence data, and was never published, so no peer review. The group merely presented their findings at an international conference on autism research.

Here's another from 2006: Wake Forest Researcher Warns Against Making Connection Between Presence of Measles Virus and Autism

That is awfully ballsy releasing a story based on 5 year old research and presenting it as new.

 

[Jene Bramel]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-388051/Scientists-fear-MMR-link-autism.html

That article is from 2006. Here is a blog post from 2006 linking to the exact same Daily Mail story.The co-author of the study, Dr. Hepner, testified at the Omnibus Autism Proceeding. The study was funded by the National Autism Association (pro MMR vaccine/autism link group), had no control group, no sequence data, and was never published, so no peer review. The group merely presented their findings at an international conference on autism research.

Here's another from 2006: Wake Forest Researcher Warns Against Making Connection Between Presence of Measles Virus and Autism

That is awfully ballsy releasing a story based on 5 year old research and presenting it as new.

Pretty sure the same article was bumped in 2007 and 2010. There's no dateline on the article, just the current date header atop the webpage. You'll also note that comments are no longer being accepted on the article.Will be interested to hear what the evidence of the latest investigation shows at the press conference today.

 

[Jene Bramel]

After being questioned by a journalist, the department of HHS that oversees the VICP issued the following statement on whether this was an admission that the government was now paying children for vaccine induced autism. The "official response" from HRSA:"From: Bowman, David (HRSA) [mailtoBowman@hrsa.gov]Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 5:22 PMTo: 'dkirby@nyc.rr.com'Subject: HRSA StatementDavid,In response to your most recent inquiry, HRSA has the followingstatement:The government has never compensated, nor has it ever been ordered tocompensate, any case based on a determination that autism was actuallycaused by vaccines. We have compensated cases in which childrenexhibited an encephalopathy, or general brain disease. Encephalopathymay be accompanied by a medical progression of an array of symptomsincluding autistic behavior, autism, or seizures.Some children who have been compensated for vaccine injuries may haveshown signs of autism before the decision to compensate, or mayultimately end up with autism or autistic symptoms, but we do not trackcases on this basis.Regards,David BowmanOffice of CommunicationsHealth Resources and Services Administration301-443-3376"This admission of a link to autism, and the disturbing revelation that the government was not even planning on counting how many autism cases it had paid from the vaccine injury fund, made it clear that HHS's claims of concern for the rise in autism rates and concern for vaccine safety were less than sincere, and that it was time for an investigation into the VICP to find out how many of the cases of vaccine induced encephalopathy (brain damage) resulted in "autistic behavior, autistic symptoms or autism" as Bowman had referenced.Tomorrow the results of this two year investigation will be revealed and we will get a better look into what the government knows about vaccine/autism causation and how long they have known it.

I see no admission of a link to autism in that email response.If by "admission of a link to autism" within the HHS response, they're arguing that some kids who get vaccinations also had signs of autism before or after their vaccination, then I agree that the two are clearly linked. Also then linked to autism, then, is every other activity of a child's daily life between birth and kindergarten. If the argument is (again) that the children with autism are awarded compensation by the program more often than those without autism, then it again must be noted that there is no scientific standard for those awards and there has never been any implication of a causative link. In fact, rulings from the Autism Omnibus hearings decisively rejected three hypotheses for causation. And those cases were chosen specifically as their best arguments for a causative link.

 

[Walton Goggins]

While I'm still not exactly a fan of the volume of vaccines we have today, I've definitely had my personal beliefs influenced a great deal by this thread. I was railing this weekend to my wife about one of our friends who has not gotten any vaccines for her children. Apparently no pediatricians will see her children, so she is taking them to a chiropractor.

And this chick is very intelligent, just reading a lot of the wrong stuff I suppose.

 

[Walton Goggins]

While I'm still not exactly a fan of the volume of vaccines we have today, I've definitely had my personal beliefs influenced a great deal by this thread. I was railing this weekend to my wife about one of our friends who has not gotten any vaccines for her children. Apparently no pediatricians will see her children, so she is taking them to a chiropractor.

And this chick is very intelligent, just reading a lot of the wrong stuff I suppose.

I do not think this means what you think it means.

 

[Jayrod]

While I'm still not exactly a fan of the volume of vaccines we have today, I've definitely had my personal beliefs influenced a great deal by this thread. I was railing this weekend to my wife about one of our friends who has not gotten any vaccines for her children. Apparently no pediatricians will see her children, so she is taking them to a chiropractor.

And this chick is very intelligent, just reading a lot of the wrong stuff I suppose.

I do not think this means what you think it means.

I guess they just hand out master's degrees to morons, huh?Trust me, this chick is very bright, but her expertise is in English and literature, not science.

 

[jhib]

I'll wait to see exactly what the "investigation" reveals, but I honestly don't think a report by a group of lawyers (who happen to represent plaintiffs in vaccine injury cases) is going to trump all of those actual scientific studies in my eyes.

 

[jdoggydogg]

In 2008 Johns Hopkins Neurologist Jon Poling went public with the news that his daughter Hannah, who regressed into autism following her 18 month vaccines, was paid by the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

[Sconch]

While I'm still not exactly a fan of the volume of vaccines we have today, I've definitely had my personal beliefs influenced a great deal by this thread. I was railing this weekend to my wife about one of our friends who has not gotten any vaccines for her children. Apparently no pediatricians will see her children, so she is taking them to a chiropractor.

And this chick is very intelligent, just reading a lot of the wrong stuff I suppose.

I do not think this means what you think it means.

I guess they just hand out master's degrees to morons, huh?

I know a few of them.

 

[dagogrease]

After being questioned by a journalist, the department of HHS that oversees the VICP issued the following statement on whether this was an admission that the government was now paying children for vaccine induced autism. The "official response" from HRSA:"From: Bowman, David (HRSA) [mailtoBowman@hrsa.gov]Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 5:22 PMTo: 'dkirby@nyc.rr.com'Subject: HRSA StatementDavid,In response to your most recent inquiry, HRSA has the followingstatement:The government has never compensated, nor has it ever been ordered tocompensate, any case based on a determination that autism was actuallycaused by vaccines. We have compensated cases in which childrenexhibited an encephalopathy, or general brain disease. Encephalopathymay be accompanied by a medical progression of an array of symptomsincluding autistic behavior, autism, or seizures.Some children who have been compensated for vaccine injuries may haveshown signs of autism before the decision to compensate, or mayultimately end up with autism or autistic symptoms, but we do not trackcases on this basis.Regards,David BowmanOffice of CommunicationsHealth Resources and Services Administration301-443-3376"This admission of a link to autism, and the disturbing revelation that the government was not even planning on counting how many autism cases it had paid from the vaccine injury fund, made it clear that HHS's claims of concern for the rise in autism rates and concern for vaccine safety were less than sincere, and that it was time for an investigation into the VICP to find out how many of the cases of vaccine induced encephalopathy (brain damage) resulted in "autistic behavior, autistic symptoms or autism" as Bowman had referenced.Tomorrow the results of this two year investigation will be revealed and we will get a better look into what the government knows about vaccine/autism causation and how long they have known it.

I see no admission of a link to autism in that email response.If by "admission of a link to autism" within the HHS response, they're arguing that some kids who get vaccinations also had signs of autism before or after their vaccination, then I agree that the two are clearly linked. Also then linked to autism, then, is every other activity of a child's daily life between birth and kindergarten. If the argument is (again) that the children with autism are awarded compensation by the program more often than those without autism, then it again must be noted that there is no scientific standard for those awards and there has never been any implication of a causative link. In fact, rulings from the Autism Omnibus hearings decisively rejected three hypotheses for causation. And those cases were chosen specifically as their best arguments for a causative link.

I understand what you are saying Jene and as always I respect your opinion but there is something not being discussed or brought to light as this investigation is beginning to show.http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/83-cases-of-autism-associated-with-childhood-vaccine-injury-compensated-in-federal-vaccine-court-121570673.htmlAgain, it just appears that there is more work that needs to be done here before I believe vaccines have nothing to do with the rise in Autism and/or auto-immune disorders.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Again, it just appears that there is more work that needs to be done here before I believe vaccines have nothing to do with the rise in Autism and/or auto-immune disorders.

You can continue to ignore the facts, but study after study disprove the link.Autism-vaccine link disproved again

New Study Disproves Vaccine/MMR/Autism Link

 

[jhib]

Here's the page for the (free) download of the actual report in the Pace Environmental Law Review.

 

[Sconch]

What's your motive for all of this, dago?

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

This guy deserves jail time for the damage he's done to the public collectively. He has (or will eventually) killed thousands of people due to the damage he did t the immunization %'s across the world, and for the oldest reason: pure unadulterated greed masqueraded as panic/science.

 

[jhib]

Here's the page for the (free) download of the actual report in the Pace Environmental Law Review.

Couple of early quotes from it as I browse through...Don't think this one will show up on too many autism websites:

This assessment of compensated cases showing an

association between vaccines and autism is not, and does not

purport to be, science. In no way does it explain scientific

causation or even necessarily undermine the reasoning of the

decisions in the Omnibus Autism Proceeding based on the

scientific theories and medical evidence before the VICP.

Yeah, this one clearly sums up the current status of the controversy:

Since the late 1990’s, the vaccineMautism debate has continued, with new developments in medicine and science,

and with authors taking positions both for and against a possible vaccine autism link.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Here's the page for the (free) download of the actual report in the Pace Environmental Law Review.

Couple of early quotes from it as I browse through...Don't think this one will show up on too many autism websites:

This assessment of compensated cases showing an

association between vaccines and autism is not, and does not

purport to be, science. In no way does it explain scientific

causation or even necessarily undermine the reasoning of the

decisions in the Omnibus Autism Proceeding based on the

scientific theories and medical evidence before the VICP.

Yeah, this one clearly sums up the current status of the controversy:

Since the late 1990's, the vaccineMautism debate has continued, with new developments in medicine and science,

and with authors taking positions both for and against a possible vaccine autism link.

There is absolutely zero science behind the anti-vaccine groups. They are committing fraud of the most pernicious kind.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

While I'm still not exactly a fan of the volume of vaccines we have today, I've definitely had my personal beliefs influenced a great deal by this thread. I was railing this weekend to my wife about one of our friends who has not gotten any vaccines for her children. Apparently no pediatricians will see her children, so she is taking them to a chiropractor.

And this chick is very intelligent, just reading a lot of the wrong stuff I suppose.

Yeah, that's why we just skipped Polio and Small Pox with our kids.

 

[Sconch]

While I'm still not exactly a fan of the volume of vaccines we have today, I've definitely had my personal beliefs influenced a great deal by this thread. I was railing this weekend to my wife about one of our friends who has not gotten any vaccines for her children. Apparently no pediatricians will see her children, so she is taking them to a chiropractor.

And this chick is very intelligent, just reading a lot of the wrong stuff I suppose.

Yeah, that's why we just skipped Polio and Small Pox with our kids.

Hate to break the news to you, GB, but they don't vaccinate against small pox any more.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

While I'm still not exactly a fan of the volume of vaccines we have today, I've definitely had my personal beliefs influenced a great deal by this thread. I was railing this weekend to my wife about one of our friends who has not gotten any vaccines for her children. Apparently no pediatricians will see her children, so she is taking them to a chiropractor.

And this chick is very intelligent, just reading a lot of the wrong stuff I suppose.

Yeah, that's why we just skipped Polio and Small Pox with our kids.

Hate to break the news to you, GB, but they don't vaccinate against small pox any more.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I understand what you are saying Jene and as always I respect your opinion but there is something not being discussed or brought to light as this investigation is beginning to show.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/83-cases-of-autism-associated-with-childhood-vaccine-injury-compensated-in-federal-vaccine-court-121570673.html

Again, it just appears that there is more work that needs to be done here before I believe vaccines have nothing to do with the rise in Autism and/or auto-immune disorders.

From the introduction before the three part article.

This preliminary study suggests that the VICP has been

compensating cases of vaccine induced encephalopathy and

residual seizure disorder associated with autism since the

inception of the program. Through this preliminary study, the

authors have found eighty three cases of autism among those

compensated for vaccine induced brain damage.

It's absolutely no surprise that the authors found children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder who have been compensated by the program. That's never been in dispute. However, a causal connection between vaccinations and autism spectrum disorder has never been found under rigorous scientific inquiry. How can the VCIP award compensation to an autistic child without a causal connection? The burden of proof is much, much less in that forum. It's less than the burden of proof in a courtroom. Three handpicked cases were presented in front of a panel of judges at the Autism Omnibus hearings. Their decision was unanimous, complete and often scathingly blunt in rejecting the argument that vaccines (or a component like thimerosal) were causally connected with autism spectrum disorder.

This assessment of compensated cases showing an

association between vaccines and autism is not, and does not

purport to be, science. In no way does it explain scientific

causation or even necessarily undermine the reasoning of the

decisions in the Omnibus Autism Proceeding based on the

scientific theories and medical evidence before the VICP. Nor

does this article have anything to say about state childhood

immunization mandates in general.

In other words, the following 62 pages of this article will have nothing to say on the scientific question of whether there's an association between vaccines and autism. It doesn't even "undermine the reasoning" of the decisions in the Autism Omnibus -- a decision was based on the merits of scientific arguments. It also seeks to make no comment on mandates.

What's the point, then?

Well...

This finding raises fundamental questions about the integrity, transparency,

and fairness of this forum.

Sure. There are major flaws with the VICP. Still it's been decided (including by the Supreme Court recently) that it's a reasonable method to determine vaccine injury to keep from exposing pharmaceutical companies to large jury awarded compensation and potentially halting the production and development of vaccinations as a result.

What this article does point to are unanswered questions about vaccines and autism,

On this point, this study strongly suggests the need for further

Congressional and scientific investigation to explore the

association between vaccine induced brain injury and autism and

the integrity of this federally administered compensation program.

Further Congressional and scientific investigation to explore the association? How much more investigation into the question of vaccines and autism is necessary? How much will ever be enough? Congressional investigation? Good grief.There's more...

Wait for it...

Each of the authors have a child with a diagnosis of ASD, two have pending claims before the VICP. In this case, since their reported findings are based on VICP data and followup interviews they themselves did not conduct, they can claim that they've not biased the findings. Again, the findings (though I have not read the methods section) are probably not in dispute. It's the conclusions (that more study and investigation needs to be done due to the "association" they've found) and the argument to follow (that the VICP process is grossly unfair to families) that are very likely biased.

I'll try to get through the arguments in the next 62 pages of this article at some point. But there's nothing here that suggests a scientific link between vaccines and autism.

 

[timschochet]

Jene, just as a side question, why do we have the term "Autism Spectrum Disorder"? I know children who are severely autistic, and I also know children who have Asbergers, and there is simply no comparison between the two. Why are we combining the two together?

 

[Jene Bramel]

Jene, just as a side question, why do we have the term "Autism Spectrum Disorder"? I know children who are severely autistic, and I also know children who have Asbergers, and there is simply no comparison between the two. Why are we combining the two together?

It can definitely be confusing.Every child on the autism spectrum, however, has a delay in social and communication skills. It may be significant (no meaningful communication or social interaction at all in cases of severe classic autism) or mild (mostly normal verbal but very limited non-verbal communication skills and stunted social interactions in cases of even mild Asperger's cases).The spectrum is wide (which is part of the reason for the high prevalence of ASD), but the developmental disability is fairly narrow -- communication and social development. It's similar to a physical disability like cerebral palsy, which is another umbrella-term of sorts for any delay in motor development. Some children with cerebral palsy may be limp and have very little muscle tone, others are spastic and have issues with muscle spasm and contractures.

 

[pinequick]

Jene, just as a side question, why do we have the term "Autism Spectrum Disorder"? I know children who are severely autistic, and I also know children who have Asbergers, and there is simply no comparison between the two. Why are we combining the two together?

It can definitely be confusing.Every child on the autism spectrum, however, has a delay in social and communication skills. It may be significant (no meaningful communication or social interaction at all in cases of severe classic autism) or mild (mostly normal verbal but very limited non-verbal communication skills and stunted social interactions in cases of even mild Asperger's cases).

The spectrum is wide (which is part of the reason for the high prevalence of ASD), but the developmental disability is fairly narrow -- communication and social development. It's similar to a physical disability like cerebral palsy, which is another umbrella-term of sorts for any delay in motor development. Some children with cerebral palsy may be limp and have very little muscle tone, others are spastic and have issues with muscle spasm and contractures.

Heard on NPR (yesterday?) about a study done in South Korea where they identified *many* more children than they expected on the autism spectrum. Many of them had no academic issues, which is usually what guides children to being identified.Okay, so I went and looked. Here's the LINK

 

[Jene Bramel]

Jene, just as a side question, why do we have the term "Autism Spectrum Disorder"? I know children who are severely autistic, and I also know children who have Asbergers, and there is simply no comparison between the two. Why are we combining the two together?

It can definitely be confusing.Every child on the autism spectrum, however, has a delay in social and communication skills. It may be significant (no meaningful communication or social interaction at all in cases of severe classic autism) or mild (mostly normal verbal but very limited non-verbal communication skills and stunted social interactions in cases of even mild Asperger's cases).

The spectrum is wide (which is part of the reason for the high prevalence of ASD), but the developmental disability is fairly narrow -- communication and social development. It's similar to a physical disability like cerebral palsy, which is another umbrella-term of sorts for any delay in motor development. Some children with cerebral palsy may be limp and have very little muscle tone, others are spastic and have issues with muscle spasm and contractures.

Heard on NPR (yesterday?) about a study done in South Korea where they identified *many* more children than they expected on the autism spectrum. Many of them had no academic issues, which is usually what guides children to being identified.Okay, so I went and looked. Here's the LINK

Pretty good discussion of the study by Steven Novella here.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I'll try to get through the arguments in the next 62 pages of this article at some point. But there's nothing here that suggests a scientific link between vaccines and autism.

Because autistic disorder is defined only by an aggregation of symptoms, there is no meaningful distinction between the terms “autism” and “autism-like symptoms.” This article makes the distinction only to accurately reflect the terms that the Court of Federal Claims, caregivers, and others use. It is not a distinction to which the authors attach significance.

In other words, we’d like to broaden the definition of autism to include any child with autism like symptoms but not a formal diagnosis of autism. We don’t attach any significance to terms that doctors, providers and the court themselves use as the standard. It’s “close enough” and it’ll help us show a higher prevalence of what we wish to call autism in this VICP population.

Although for two decades, HHS and U.S. professional medical associations argued that rising rates of autism were attributable solely to better diagnoses, more inclusive categories, and diagnostic substitution, in 2009 the government acknowledged a real rise due at least in part to environmental factors.

Again, I don’t believe any one has argued that the increase in prevalence is due solely to diagnostic criteria and understanding only. Still, the acknowledgement that the rise is due in part to environmental factors (you’ll note that there’s no mention of a genetic cause here) doesn’t necessarily mean that the environmental cause has anything to do with vaccinations, their components or the schedule itself.

While the mercury connection to autism is not proven, there are many sources, including the Olmsted-Blaxill book, that give the hypothesis plausibility.

Come on.

One must note that the DSM-IV definition of “autistic disorder” is similar on its face to the VICP’s definitions of “encephalopathy, seizures and sequela.” … To be sure, the DSM-IV classification differs from the VICP description, but DSM-IV “autistic disorder” does not contradict the VICP description of encephalopathy, seizures, and sequela.

Again, it’s close enough. Children with encephalopathy, seizures, etc don’t communicate well and have poor social interaction, so they can be given a diagnosis of autism. The distinction between DSM-IV autism and autism-like symptoms doesn’t matter. Sure doesn’t help our case anyway. So we’ll acknowledge our criteria are different, but they don’t really “contradict” each other, right?

This questionnaire in no way “proves” that these individuals have an autism diagnosis. The completed questionnaires do, however, give further credibility to the parental reports of autism. Only complete medically supervised diagnoses could fully confirm autism diagnoses. Such diagnoses were beyond the scope of this study…

Our questionnaires are good. They give credibility to the parents that say their child has autism-like symptoms and therefore have autism. We’ll include those parental reports because they have credibility, but medical diagnosis of autism is outside the scope of this study.We’re about to see why.The authors note that they located 83 patients out of a pool of 2500 with autism or autism-like symptoms. That’s a prevalence in the VICP group of 3.3%, which is significantly higher than the general population. Ergo, there’s something to this “association.”But only 17 of those 83 had a confirmed diagnosis during their VICP hearing. 22 more had a confirmed diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder by caregiver report. Only 39, then, carry a confirmed diagnosis of autism. The authors call that “about half.” The “other half” have encephalopathy and seizures – autism-like symptoms per the questionnaire the study uses. Cut that group out – those without a confirmed diagnosis of ASD and your estimated prevalence in the group is now 1.6%. A prevalence of 1.6% is well, not nearly as impressive. It’s also very near what’s usually reported as the prevalence of ASD in the general population (0.7-1.8%) and with a much smaller sample size. And if the South Korean study noted a few posts above can be replicated – which shows a prevalence of 2.64% -- it’s even less impressive.The authors note the likely criticism of caregiver reports and confirmation bias in the discussion section.

(3) Parents are poor reporters of their children’s condition. Critics will assert that parental caregivers are poor reporters of their children’s conditions, subject to “confirmation bias.” As a result, they will argue that these findings are not credible. Because of these concerns, we administered the SCQ to 27% of the total number of compensated families (and 35% of the cases having no published decisions) and found a high correlation between parental reports and scores for autism using this recognized screening tool. The accuracy of the autism assessment in the cases for which we have such corroboration suggests the likely accuracy of the parental reports for which we lack such corroboration. The authors would be delighted to have this study replicated with a more rigorous analysis of these and other compensated families, including full ADIMR diagnoses.

The authors would be delighted with more rigorous analysis. Indeed. The rigorous analysis of hundreds of other scientific studies (blithely noted earlier only with a passing comment that some authors argue the other side of the controversy) and the higher standard of the Autism Omnibus do not qualify in this instance.I’d have been delighted if the authors had done more rigorous analysis of their own. Maybe some study on why all children with encephalopathy shouldn’t be lumped into an ASD diagnosis. Maybe some effort into including some effort into documenting a medical diagnosis of autism in the “other half” of their 83 patients used to make their case.Close enough is good enough for their argument. It’s not enough for the other side. Rigorous analysis is necessary. More rigorous analysis. They’d be delighted.But they don’t stop there.

2. Recommendation: Congressional Inquiry Autism is the most prevalent developmental disorder in the United States, conservatively affecting about one in one hundred and ten children.This preliminary evaluation suggests that vaccine-induced encephalopathy and seizure disorder may be associated with autism. We recommend that Congress open an investigation of all compensated cases of vaccine-induced injuryto find out how frequently this association occurs. Congress should find out what HHS, DOJ, and the VICP knew about the existence of autism as a characteristic of those compensated for encephalopathy and residual seizure disorder.

Congress must investigate this association. This association based on a preliminary suggestion we acknowledge isn’t based on medical diagnosis, of limited sample size and has been rejected in whole and parts by a judicial board in the Omnibus Hearings.

CONCLUSIONWhile there are likely many routes to “autism,” including prenatal neurological insults and toxic post-natal exposures,based on this preliminary assessment, there may be no meaningful distinction between the cases of encephalopathy and residual seizure disorder that the VICP compensated over the last twenty years and the cases of “autism” that the VICP has denied. If true, this would be a profound injustice to those denied recovery and to all who have invested trust in this system that Congress created. This preliminary study calls for Congress to investigate the VICP and for scientists to investigate all compensated cases of vaccine injury to gain a fuller understanding of the totality of consequences of vaccine injury.

Seriously?----------------------------Again, as always, don’t misread my comments above as hard-hearted and closed-minded to what children with autism or other severe developmental disorders and their families are faced with every day.Some of the parental comments about their children and their experience as they presented their cases to the VICP break my heart.But it’s extremely difficult not to grow tired of the same worn-out arguments. Especially an argument that dismisses science from the start, but asks for more rigorous analysis. An argument that again shifts the goal posts, this time massaging the data so that more children with a neurodevelopmental delay are included to more than double the prevalence they base their argument on.It continues to be my fervent hope that valuable research dollars and time be devoted to searching for any genetic or environmental causes that may be contributing to the increased prevalence, to searching for better understanding of the developmental issues and how they may be treated, to improve early diagnosis and intervention in ASD to improve quality of life and maximize development, to aid in providing respite care for parents and placement of severely delayed children when they become adults.Every time something like the above gets a press conference on the steps of a federal court and reported on Fox News, more families may decide not to vaccinate their children. That’s not a good thing. It’s not in the best interests of children.

 

[dagogrease]

What's your motive for all of this, dago?

I have posted this before a few years ago but I will give you the short version. Just want to say that I am not convinced that vaccines on their own cause autism. I am not advocating that nobody vaccinate their child. I have been openly reading both sides of this story. I am not a birther, I do not believe in UFOs and I am not a conspiracy theorist. However, I do believe that many aspects of this country believe in collatoral damage and that what is good for the majority is what should be done. That being said, my story is similar to thousands of other families.My son had developed perfectly up until 15 months. He was meeting all his milestones. He received the MMR at 15 months. That night, he was screaming uncontrollably (never happened before) spiked a 104 degree fever, had a rash around the area that he received his shot. This lasted for 2 nights where the fever would spike up and down as we were told to control it with a combination of childrens tylenol and childrens motrin. After this, he began to regress...loss of speech, did not respond to his name, understood very little that we told him, had chronic ear infections, he did not have another formed bowel movement until he was 7 years old as he had numerous gastrointestinal issues. He was diagnosed at 3.5 years of age with Autism.After numerous types of treatments including Tomatis, IV Glutothione, etc nothing was working. We did not go the chelation route as it was way too scary for us. We settled in on a DAN (Defeat Autism Now) protocol with a GFCF diet and have made tremendous strides. The diet and protocol helped with his gut issues.He is now a 13 year old boy, has speech and language issues but can verbalize his needs very well. Has a ton of social issues reagarding what he should say, when he should say it. He has a hard time making friends but the ones he has love him to death. He is a great kid with a big heart. I saw first hand what happened to my son after he had his MMR vaccination...can I state that the vaccine caused him autism, no. I just believe that this item is not closed or finalized as more research is being done and more issues crop up. I have not vaccinated either one of my kids since.Just saw the rates are looking to go up to 1 in 38 kids on the Spectrum now. That is why it is hard for me to just say it is genetics alone as I am not aware that there has ever been a genetic epidemic of these proportions.Let the crucifiction of me begin...especially the ones who state I should be thrown in jail for not vaccinating.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The Wakefield Rehabilitation?

 

[Tribulation]

In 2008 Johns Hopkins Neurologist Jon Poling went public with the news that his daughter Hannah, who regressed into autism following her 18 month vaccines, was paid by the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

20/20 hindsight, my friend.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Can somebody please let me know the errors in this study?

My buddy is a smart guy, but he's starting to go off the deep end about "modern life" and such. He's telling me all this garbage about how "natural immunities" are better at stopping the spread of disease than innocculations and all sorts of other goofy stuff. This study seems to be counter to every other scientific study done so far. Why?

TIA

 

[jhib]

Can somebody please let me know the errors in this study?

My buddy is a smart guy, but he's starting to go off the deep end about "modern life" and such. He's telling me all this garbage about how "natural immunities" are better at stopping the spread of disease than innocculations and all sorts of other goofy stuff. This study seems to be counter to every other scientific study done so far. Why?

TIA

David Gorski covers it pretty well here on Science-Based Medicine. He starts addressing that study specifically about halfway through, and includes links to other articles/blogs that address it.

One of the big problems is that there seems to be no good scientific reason to combine speech or language impairments (SLIs) with autism.

 

[The Commish]

And the story continues

 

[kface]

And the story continues

The country is bought and sold on so many levels its hard to tell, even with good research skills, what is the truth nowadays. If there is a profit to be made then usually that's the one to doubt.

 

[The Commish]

And the story continues

The country is bought and sold on so many levels its hard to tell, even with good research skills, what is the truth nowadays. If there is a profit to be made then usually that's the one to doubt.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Italian court reignites MMR vaccine debate after award over child with autism

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Playmate Kills Kids.