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Doctor violently dragged from full United flight (2 Viewers)

Dedfin said:
Hilarious people are blaming unions.  Any solutions unavailable to United in realtime due to union agreements, or plane availability or anything else is due to their lack of foresight.  FFS, they are an airline.  They hire thousands of people who's job it is to plan for this exact type of thing.  United failed, not customers or unions.
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no one is seriously blaming the union here, but the unions have been failing continuously since the late 70s.  

 
Dedfin said:
Hilarious people are blaming unions.  Any solutions unavailable to United in realtime due to union agreements, or plane availability or anything else is due to their lack of foresight.  FFS, they are an airline.  They hire thousands of people who's job it is to plan for this exact type of thing.  United failed, not customers or unions.
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I'm also willing to wager that at some point in United's history and across their tens of thousands of employees, they have broken a union rule either intentionally or unintentionally, paid some kind of meager fine or penalty, and moved on.

The crew's respective unions weren't going to be picketing because these four sat in a limo for a few hours instead of a middle coach seat. 

 
RUSF18 said:
The crew's respective unions weren't going to be picketing because these four sat in a limo for a few hours instead of a middle coach seat. 
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Again, need to read more.  This is not relevant given the facts at hand.  They had to be at their destination by 10pm or else.

 
Increasing the compensation until someone volunteered was the obvious solution. 

It seems like United was put in a bind where it needed those seats back, if they acted appropriately they could have gotten them back and actually had some happy customers, and it would only cost them a few thousand dollars. 

 
The Duff Man said:
Increasing the compensation until someone volunteered was the obvious solution. 

It seems like United was put in a bind where it needed those seats back, if they acted appropriately they could have gotten them back and actually had some happy customers, and it would only cost them a few thousand dollars. 
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In hindsight, obviously. But that would have needed to be policy at the time in order for the UA employees to do it. I strongly suspect its not policy because it sets a horrible precedent that the airline wouldn't want (we can argue they are a victim of their own creation on that front since they choose to regularly overbook flights thus needing a policy of essentially paying people off the flights/planes when necessary).

Unique situation that assumed humans would behave in a certain manner. You know what they say about assuming...

 
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Da Guru said:
This would be a non story if cell phones be required by law to be turned off upon boarding in case passengers need to be physically dragged off and assaulted by air marshals  before takeoff.
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And if you don't turn off your phone, air marshals will beat and bloody you then drag you off the plane.

 
whiskey7 said:
In hindsight, obviously. But that would have needed to be policy at the time in order for the UA employees to do it.
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True.  I saw, but haven't seen it confirmed, that the highest UA will allow their GAs to go is $800.  As I mentioned earlier, I've seen Delta start offers higher than that.  UA is (well probably now "was") just being cheap.

 
whiskey7 said:
In hindsight, obviously. But that would have needed to be policy at the time in order for the UA employees to do it.
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At United Airlines and Wells Fargo, toxic corporate culture starts with the CEO

Munoz’s reaction also glossed over what may be real constraints on United employees’ ability to manage workaday glitches. At the United gate in Chicago, Smith conjectures, “the airline’s staff reached a point, after perhaps offering whatever dollar amounts their procedures called for, where they simply didn’t know what to do, and nobody was brave enough, or resourceful enough, to come up with something. Summoning the police simply became the easiest way to pass the buck.”

That’s typical of the culture of big airlines, Smith adds. “Everything is scripted and rote and procedural ... Workers are deterred from thinking creatively exactly when they need to.”
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whiskey7 said:
In hindsight, obviously. But that would have needed to be policy at the time in order for the UA employees to do it. I strongly suspect its not policy because it sets a horrible precedent that the airline wouldn't want (we can argue they are a victim of their own creation on that front since they choose to regularly overbook flights thus needing a policy of essentially paying people off the planes when necessary).

Unique situation that assumed humans would behave in a certain manner. You know what they say about assuming...
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I don't think hindsight is required to come to that conclusion.  They are in the midst of setting a horrible precedent here though.

 
Sand said:
He's doing a pretty good job so far, amigo.  Now run along and go protest the latest campus speaker you don't like.
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Damn.  For some reason I thought you were like IK or a normal conservative.  I didn't know you were straight up Trumpkin.  I'll leave you alone now.

 
Dedfin said:
Damn.  For some reason I thought you were like IK or a normal conservative.  I didn't know you were straight up Trumpkin.  I'll leave you alone now.
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Didn't vote for Trump.  But, you know, keep striving for whatever it is you're after here.

 
Haven't read the entire thread, but if someone is resisting like that, why not go to the next person. Maybe they'll get off with a voucher or something.

 
CurlyNight said:
Haven't read the entire thread, but if someone is resisting like that, why not go to the next person. Maybe they'll get off with a voucher or something.
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If they let one resist then everyone will think they can resist

united had to nip this right in bud and show that fudge packin pill pushing doctor who's in charge

 
CurlyNight said:
Haven't read the entire thread, but if someone is resisting like that, why not go to the next person. Maybe they'll get off with a voucher or something.
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Yeah and they pick the wrong 2nd person.... Bad idea.

These idiots are buckling to the public. This morning they are considering abandoning the 'random computer generated picks' for something else...less fair. :lmao:  Talk about setting yourself up for disaster. Can they be any dumber? 'They picked me because of my race' will be the 1st thing out of some people's mouths.

 
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lod001 said:
Yeah and they pick the wrong 2nd person.... Bad idea.

These idiots are buckling to the public. This morning they are considering abandoning the 'random computer generated picks' for something else...less fair. :lmao:  Talk about setting yourself up for disaster. Can they be any dumber? 'They picked me because of my race' will be the 1st thing out of some people's mouths.
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Take a page from Survivor and have the plane pick who leaves.  "Sorry Dr. Dao, the tribe has spoken".  Might even lead to some decent blind sides where the cool guy thought he was safe and gets voted off the plane

 
CurlyNight said:
Haven't read the entire thread, but if someone is resisting like that, why not go to the next person. Maybe they'll get off with a voucher or something.
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All that does is reinforce the notion that the people who throw tantrums get their way.

It sucks that the guy smashed his mouth on the armrest, but if he just got up and left instead of doing the "limp 3 year old, drag me out routine", none of this happens.

I don't have sympathy for either party involved. Both are completely unlikable.

 
Dao hired Corboy & Demetrio, one of the slickest PI firms in the country. Already been to court to have an order entered preserving evidence.

 
Gianni Verscotchie said:
All that does is reinforce the notion that the people who throw tantrums get their way.

It sucks that the guy smashed his mouth on the armrest, but if he just got up and left instead of doing the "limp 3 year old, drag me out routine", none of this happens.

I don't have sympathy for either party involved. Both are completely unlikable.
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But then there's the huge loss UAL is now suffering, financially, PR, potential more loss if he sues, etc. Don't know how often this happens with seated passengers. I don't think everyone would resort to antics like this but it seems cheaper and better all around for the a/l to just pay the customers who are being bumped. Any kind of reward.

 
Gianni Verscotchie said:
All that does is reinforce the notion that the people who throw tantrums get their way.
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So it would have reinforced that notion with a commuter plane full of people. Mind you, a bunch of people who had already refused to accept United's offer. If you're United's CEO, would you rather have planted that seed with those 50-60 people or be where you are today?

 
Christo said:
So it would have reinforced that notion with a commuter plane full of people. Mind you, a bunch of people who had already refused to accept United's offer. If you're United's CEO, would you rather have planted that seed with those 50-60 people or be where you are today?
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:goodposting:

 
CBS just announced that the location of the next season of Survivor is going to be a United Airlines flight. 

 
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Christo said:
So it would have reinforced that notion with a commuter plane full of people. Mind you, a bunch of people who had already refused to accept United's offer. If you're United's CEO, would you rather have planted that seed with those 50-60 people or be where you are today?
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Of course we know the answer to that. Hindsight is always 20/20. If a company knew an applicant would one day invent the next big thing, they'd be sure to offer a compensation package they knew would get him/her on board. As it is, they don't know for sure. So they offer what they think it will take. 

United has determined a formula they feel maximizes profits. They have a contingency plan, but it is obviously not foolproof. It took the confluence of a full flight + unanticipated extra crew needing a lift + no takers on best offer + passenger refusing to leave plane + air cop that yanks said passenger hard enough that he hits face on armrest across aisle + video of said passenger getting dragged off for this to blow-up the way it has. I don't know what the odds of that all happening are but I suspect most companies would take em.  :shrug:  

 
whiskey7 said:
Of course we know the answer to that. Hindsight is always 20/20. If a company knew an applicant would one day invent the next big thing, they'd be sure to offer a compensation package they knew would get him/her on board. As it is, they don't know for sure. So they offer what they think it will take. 

United has determined a formula they feel maximizes profits. They have a contingency plan, but it is obviously not foolproof. It took the confluence of a full flight + unanticipated extra crew needing a lift + no takers on best offer + passenger refusing to leave plane + air cop that yanks said passenger hard enough that he hits face on armrest across aisle + video of said passenger getting dragged off for this to blow-up the way it has. I don't know what the odds of that all happening are but I suspect most companies would take em.  :shrug:  
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Nah. This was extremely short-sighted policy developed and deployed by people that need to return a few paychecks. Corners were gashed.

 
whiskey7 said:
Of course we know the answer to that. Hindsight is always 20/20. If a company knew an applicant would one day invent the next big thing, they'd be sure to offer a compensation package they knew would get him/her on board. As it is, they don't know for sure. So they offer what they think it will take. 

United has determined a formula they feel maximizes profits. They have a contingency plan, but it is obviously not foolproof. It took the confluence of a full flight + unanticipated extra crew needing a lift + no takers on best offer + passenger refusing to leave plane + air cop that yanks said passenger hard enough that he hits face on armrest across aisle + video of said passenger getting dragged off for this to blow-up the way it has. I don't know what the odds of that all happening are but I suspect most companies would take em.  :shrug:  
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Your "formula" works both ways though.

 
whiskey7 said:
Of course we know the answer to that. Hindsight is always 20/20. If a company knew an applicant would one day invent the next big thing, they'd be sure to offer a compensation package they knew would get him/her on board. As it is, they don't know for sure. So they offer what they think it will take. 

United has determined a formula they feel maximizes profits. They have a contingency plan, but it is obviously not foolproof. It took the confluence of a full flight + unanticipated extra crew needing a lift + no takers on best offer + passenger refusing to leave plane + air cop that yanks said passenger hard enough that he hits face on armrest across aisle + video of said passenger getting dragged off for this to blow-up the way it has. I don't know what the odds of that all happening are but I suspect most companies would take em.  :shrug:  
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As it has been said, many times, many ways, they could have kept upping the offer a couple hundred bucks until someone voluntarily gave up their seat. It really isn't all that complicated. 

 
Here's a tip from an experienced traveler. Guns aren't allowed on planes. So if you're able to sneak one on you hold a tremendous amount of leverage. 

 
Sheriff Bart said:
As it has been said, many times, many ways, they could have kept upping the offer a couple hundred bucks until someone voluntarily gave up their seat. It really isn't all that complicated. 
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It isn't complicated at all...if that is their policy. That is not their policy, though. The UA people working that day were only authorized to offer a certain amount. If no takers, then "random" selection. If non-compliance, get the cops.

I am not saying I support their policy. Just saying that is what it is as I understand it. People keep saying all they had to do was keep upping the offer (as though the airline has a guy by the gate with a bag of money and full authority to throw it at people til they're happy). That's not the way it is. If you think that's the way it should be going forward, ok. Just say that. But don't keep saying it was an easy out Sunday because it wasn't.

 
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Tonight I, Donald J Trump, am calling for a complete and total shutdown of overbooking until UAL can figure out what the hell is going on.

In other (not fake) news, UAL commits to no longer have passengers dragged off planes in overbooked situations. Seems like a good policy.

 
whiskey7 said:
It isn't complicated at all...if that is their policy. That is not their policy, though. The UA people working that day were only authorized to offer a certain amount. If no takers, then "random" selection. If non-compliance, get the cops.

I am not saying I support their policy. Just saying that is what it is as I understand it. People keep saying all they had to do was keep upping the offer (as though the airline has a guy by the gate with a bag of money and full authority to throw it at people til they're happy). That's not the way it is. If you think that's the way it should be going forward, ok. Just say that. But don't keep saying it was an easy out Sunday because it wasn't.
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So UAL  breaches their contract of carriage but the passenger is considered to be the party not in compliance.

 
RokNRole said:
If they let one resist then everyone will think they can resist

united had to nip this right in bud and show that fudge packin pill pushing doctor who's in charge
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Now that they have promised not to call the cops in these situations anymore the bud has bloomed. 

#resist

 
whiskey7 said:
It isn't complicated at all...if that is their policy. That is not their policy, though. The UA people working that day were only authorized to offer a certain amount. If no takers, then "random" selection. If non-compliance, get the cops.

I am not saying I support their policy. Just saying that is what it is as I understand it. People keep saying all they had to do was keep upping the offer (as though the airline has a guy by the gate with a bag of money and full authority to throw it at people til they're happy). That's not the way it is. If you think that's the way it should be going forward, ok. Just say that. But don't keep saying it was an easy out Sunday because it wasn't.
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I think you are giving too much weight to policy. Businesses can have all the policies they want, but policies don't mean #### in a courtroom if they aren't legal.

 
fatness said:
More video, this from before the passenger was dragged off. Does not look disruptive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dictjRe7n_g&feature=youtu.be
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I am friends with a UAL flight attendant on FB and she has been on a rampage blaming the guy.  She is saying people dont know the whole story and that he was spitting and swearing at the officers before they used force to take him off the plane.  I havent seen or heard that part anywhere else, so is she just losing it or am I missing part of the story?

 
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