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Doctor violently dragged from full United flight (1 Viewer)

whiskey7 said:
Back at ya. Your mind is so made up you're refusing (or unable) to comprehend what I've typed in simple English. You've further attempted to put words in my mouth and made assumptions about me.

Good day, sir.
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I asked you to show where in the policy that they could do this, you failed to do it, deflect the question and throw smoke screens up along the way.

I'll ask again, where in the policy that you quoted in two separate posts does it say that that was the step to follow?

 
To those that said this story would go away quickly....wrong. Buckle up because this has legs. The only way this blows away anytime soon is if UA backs a Brinks truck up to Dao's house.

 
United ####ed with the wrong dude. If I'm the CEO at this point I show up at his house personally with one of those giant Publisher's Clearing House checks and some chocolates.

 
Buzzbait said:
To those that said this story would go away quickly....wrong. Buckle up because this has legs. The only way this blows away anytime soon is if UA backs a Brinks truck up to Dao's house.
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Oh it's still going away quickly but I certainly didn't see a press conference on the horizon (which will stretch it out some). And what I mean by going away quickly is the general public will be talking about something else soon, and any "boycott" will never have any traction.

Good to see major news hasn't spent too much time on Dao's past though. It's really not relevant.

 
chet said:
I don't think they ever got to the maximum amount allowed per UA's policy but I could be wrong.  Also, there were reports of UA employees scoffing at passengers who made suggestions for their price to miss the flight.
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If they didn't get to the maximum, then this obviously looks worse for them. My understanding is they offered the max they could per their policy. They would be stupid (on an epic level) to proceed as they did without first hitting the max offer. But maybe that's indeed what happened.

As far as employees scoffing at passenger offers, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if they did. Some guy says "I'll get off for 5 grand". UA people know they can't offer close to that. What (besides laugh/scoff) are they gonna do?

I would think the inflexibility displayed that day supports the notion the employees were following the policy/process (as they understood it) and didn't feel empowered to ad lib even when it escalated to the point the next step was a passenger being removed by the airport police.

 
whiskey7 said:
If they didn't get to the maximum, then this obviously looks worse for them. My understanding is they offered the max they could per their policy. They would be stupid (on an epic level) to proceed as they did without first hitting the max offer. But maybe that's indeed what happened.

As far as employees scoffing at passenger offers, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if they did. Some guy says "I'll get off for 5 grand". UA people know they can't offer close to that. What (besides laugh/scoff) are they gonna do?

I would think the inflexibility displayed that day supports the notion the employees were following the policy/process (as they understood it) and didn't feel empowered to ad lib even when it escalated to the point the next step was a passenger being removed by the airport police.
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The customer service manager is a phone call away, who probably can approve different vouchers.  He/she should be aware when they have to force someone from a plane anyway.

 
The General said:
United ####ed with the wrong dude. If I'm the CEO at this point I show up at his house personally with one of those giant Publisher's Clearing House checks and some chocolates.
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and bags with dollar signs on them that would help too take that to the bank brohan 

 
He did have a concussion (and broken nose/teeth). I figured he might've with how out of it he seemed when he got back on the flight. Turbulent skies ahead for United, imo.

 
I had read that someone on the plane told the manager who came on that he would do it for $1600 and that the manager laughed at him.

ive read different reports ranging from $800-1650 as the range United was obligated to offer.

if it comes out that united was obligated to offer $1650 and someone did in fact offer to accept $1600 that's just another bad sign for United.

 
this is edward william bennet awesome brohans its been a while since we saw a lawyer get out and win in the press like this before a suit was even filed wow take that to the bank bromigos 

 
United has hands down the worst in flight customer service in the industry. Their gate agents aren't much better, but not as bad as some of the bitter employees they have in flight. I try my best not to fly them, but it's tough to stomach a longer layover or another stop or a 6:00 am departure when United has better times / more frequent flights to many destinations.

Happy I'm flying Southwest today.

 
His "concussion" is a master stroke.  No real way to verify he doesn't have one as long as he's displaying (or complaining of) "symptoms".

Also:

"We missed our chance at an early retirement"

- couple that did things the "right way" deboarded the plane without incident before Dao

 
so just for the hell of it i had the old unted stock ticker up and that baby fell during the presser strap in munoz this brohan is just gettin warmed up and hes battin for the little guy take that to the bank bromigos 

 
Statorama said:
His "concussion" is a master stroke.  No real way to verify he doesn't have one as long as he's displaying (or complaining of) "symptoms".

Also:

"We missed our chance at an early retirement"

- couple that did things the "right way" deboarded the plane without incident before Dao
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He was in the hospital, so I'd imagine they have medical records/scans to prove he did get concussed.  I don't think the court will just take his word for it. Considering the blood coming out of his mouth, and how dazed he looked when they dragged him away, it seems probable that he did have one, no?

 
The Football Freak said:
He was in the hospital, so I'd imagine they have medical records/scans to prove he did get concussed.  I don't think the court will just take his word for it. Considering the blood coming out of his mouth, and how dazed he looked when they dragged him away, it seems probable that he did have one, no?
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Yep and they've now taken away questioning Dao's sanity for when he ran back onto the plane acting like a loon.

They are going to waterboard UA until they cry uncle and beg for it to pretty please go away.

 
The Football Freak said:
He was in the hospital, so I'd imagine they have medical records/scans to prove he did get concussed.  I don't think the court will just take his word for it. Considering the blood coming out of his mouth, and how dazed he looked when they dragged him away, it seems probable that he did have one, no?
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You get some Dr Nick Riviera type to ask him if he feels dizzy....viola! Instant concussion diagnosis.

Concussions and back pain are the easiest scams.  I'm surprised he didn't add back pain to the list.

He's faking it, he acted like a big baby, he's going to get millions, and flight rates for all airlines are going to go up.  Bad day for people that do things "the right way".

I still can't believe anyone would condone his actions on that plane.  I absolutely hate when people feel the rules don't apply to them because they think they're special.  Life sucks sometimes Dr Dao.  But noooooooooooooooo he's going to get REWARDED for his incredibly juvenile behavior.

 
Statorama said:
You get some Dr Nick Riviera type to ask him if he feels dizzy....viola! Instant concussion diagnosis.

Concussions and back pain are the easiest scams.  I'm surprised he didn't add back pain to the list.

He's faking it, he acted like a big baby, he's going to get millions, and flight rates for all airlines are going to go up.  Bad day for people that do things "the right way".

I still can't believe anyone would condone his actions on that plane.  I absolutely hate when people feel the rules don't apply to them because they think they're special.  Life sucks sometimes Dr Dao.  But noooooooooooooooo he's going to get REWARDED for his incredibly juvenile behavior.
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:lol:

Look at this guy.

 
Statorama said:
You get some Dr Nick Riviera type to ask him if he feels dizzy....viola! Instant concussion diagnosis.

Concussions and back pain are the easiest scams.  I'm surprised he didn't add back pain to the list.

He's faking it, he acted like a big baby, he's going to get millions, and flight rates for all airlines are going to go up.  Bad day for people that do things "the right way".

I still can't believe anyone would condone his actions on that plane.  I absolutely hate when people feel the rules don't apply to them because they think they're special.  Life sucks sometimes Dr Dao.  But noooooooooooooooo he's going to get REWARDED for his incredibly juvenile behavior.
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I've been here a long time, Stat. You picked the wrong mark.  :D  

 
United did not cause his injuries. If I was on the jury, I wouldn't find United liable beyond what they would have had to pay for bumping him.

 
He gave consent to be dragged off the plane.  There is liability for injuries because that was not handled properly, but agree it's not United's liability.

 
Statorama said:
You get some Dr Nick Riviera type to ask him if he feels dizzy....viola! Instant concussion diagnosis.

Concussions and back pain are the easiest scams.  I'm surprised he didn't add back pain to the list.

He's faking it, he acted like a big baby, he's going to get millions, and flight rates for all airlines are going to go up.  Bad day for people that do things "the right way".

I still can't believe anyone would condone his actions on that plane.  I absolutely hate when people feel the rules don't apply to them because they think they're special.  Life sucks sometimes Dr Dao.  But noooooooooooooooo he's going to get REWARDED for his incredibly juvenile behavior.
Click to expand...
Front teeth knocked out and a broken nose is faking it? Well, if so, that is some damn good faking.

 
whiskey7 said:
If they didn't get to the maximum, then this obviously looks worse for them. My understanding is they offered the max they could per their policy. They would be stupid (on an epic level) to proceed as they did without first hitting the max offer. But maybe that's indeed what happened.

As far as employees scoffing at passenger offers, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if they did. Some guy says "I'll get off for 5 grand". UA people know they can't offer close to that. What (besides laugh/scoff) are they gonna do?

I would think the inflexibility displayed that day supports the notion the employees were following the policy/process (as they understood it) and didn't feel empowered to ad lib even when it escalated to the point the next step was a passenger being removed by the airport police.
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You threw out that whole post earlier about people having their minds made up and this post shows you had your mind made up without knowing anywhere near enough of the story.

Your understanding in paragraph 1 was wrong. Your understanding of the "enormous" amount sought by passengers that got the employees to laugh at them is again wrong. 

 
17seconds said:
He gave consent to be dragged off the plane.  There is liability for injuries because that was not handled properly, but agree it's not United's liability.
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Lol...he gave consent  .United's actions led to the injuries.  I believe the term is indirect consequences 

 
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rascal said:
https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights

DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. The amount depends on the price of their ticket and the length of the delay:

  • If you are bumped involuntarily and the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to get you to your final destination (including later connections) within one hour of your original scheduled arrival time, there is no compensation.
  • If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum.
  • If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1350 maximum).
  • If your ticket does not show a fare (for example, a frequent-flyer award ticket or a ticket issued by a consolidator), your denied boarding compensation is based on the lowest cash, check or credit card payment charged for a ticket in the same class of service (e.g., coach, first class) on that flight.
  • You always get to keep your original ticket and use it on another flight. If you choose to make your own arrangements, you can request an "involuntary refund" for the ticket for the flight you were bumped from. The denied boarding compensation is essentially a payment for your inconvenience.
  • If you paid for optional services on your original flight (e.g., seat selection, checked baggage) and you did not receive those services on your substitute flight or were required to pay a second time, the airline that bumped you must refund those payments to you.
Like all rules, however, there are a few conditions and exceptions:

  • To be eligible for compensation, you must have a confirmed reservation. A written confirmation issued by the airline or an authorized agent or reservation service qualifies you in this regard even if the airline can't find your reservation in the computer, as long as you didn't cancel your reservation or miss a reconfirmation deadline.
  • Each airline has a check-in deadline, which is the amount of time before scheduled departure that you must present yourself to the airline at the airport. For domestic flights most carriers require you to be at the departure gate between 10 minutes and 30 minutes before scheduled departure, but some deadlines can be an hour or longer. Check-in deadlines on international flights can be as much as three hours before scheduled departure time. Some airlines may simply require you to be at the ticket/baggage counter by this time; most, however, require that you get all the way to the boarding area. Some may have deadlines at both locations. If you miss the check-in deadline, you may have lost your reservation and your right to compensation if the flight is oversold.
As noted above, no compensation is due if the airline arranges substitute transportation which is scheduled to arrive at your destination within one hour of your originally scheduled arrival time.

If the airline must substitute a smaller plane for the one it originally planned to use, the carrier isn't required to pay people who are bumped as a result. In addition, on flights using aircraft with 30 through 60 passenger seats, compensation is not required if you were bumped due to safety-related aircraft weight or balance constraints.

The rules do not apply to charter flights, or to scheduled flights operated with planes that hold fewer than 30 passengers. They don't apply to international flights inbound to the United States, although some airlines on these routes may follow them voluntarily. Also, if you are flying between two foreign cities -- from Paris to Rome, for example -- these rules will not apply. The European Commission has a rule on bumpings that occur in an EC country; ask the airline for details, or go to http://ec.europa.eu/transport/passengers/air/air_en.htm [external link].

Airlines set their own "boarding priorities" -- the order in which they will bump different categories of passengers in an oversale situation. When a flight is oversold and there are not enough volunteers, some airlines bump passengers with the lowest fares first. Others bump the last passengers to check in. Once you have purchased your ticket, the most effective way to reduce the risk of being bumped is to get to the airport early. For passengers in the same fare class the last passengers to check in are usually the first to be bumped, even if they have met the check-in deadline. Allow extra time; assume that the roads are backed up, the parking lot is full, and there is a long line at the check-in counter.

Airlines may offer free tickets or dollar-amount vouchers for future flights in place of a check for denied boarding compensation. However, if you are bumped involuntarily you have the right to insist on a check if that is your preference. Once you cash the check (or accept the free flight), you will probably lose the ability to pursue more money from the airline later on. However, if being bumped costs you more money than the airline will pay you at the airport, you can try to negotiate a higher settlement with their complaint department. If this doesn't work, you usually have 30 days from the date on the check to decide if you want to accept the amount of the check. You are always free to decline the check (e.g., not cash it) and take the airline to court to try to obtain more compensation. DOT's denied boarding regulation spells out the airlines' minimum obligation to people they bump involuntarily. Finally, don't be a "no-show." If you are holding confirmed reservations you don't plan to use, notify the airline. If you don't, they will cancel all onward or return reservations on your trip.
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HellToupee said:
Teeth were probably rotten from his illicit drug use plus he's an old timer
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From a legal standpoint that is irrelevant, eggshell rule, you take your victim as you find him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull

The eggshell skull rule (or thin skull rule or you take your victim as you find him rule of the common law) is a well-established legal doctrine used in some tort law systems,[1] with a similar doctrine applicable to criminal law. It means that frailty of the injured person is not a defense in a tort case.

 
Haven't read through this thread, but thought it was interesting that yesterday there was a dude on Limbaugh saying they should have used baseball bats to help get this guy off the plane to prevent the other people from being late.  I thought for sure this is a topic everyone can agree on, but apparently not.

It's pretty simple really, offer up some money/vouchers and people will happily trade their ticket.  United ####ed this up big time

 
The Ref said:
Wasn't an oversold situation though right?  He wasn't being bumped for other passengers but for employees.
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Precisely. Which is why I told our favorite whiskey drinker that he failed as soon as he cited the normal "oversold" policy. 

 
Dickies said:
It's pretty simple really, offer up some money/vouchers and people will happily trade their ticket.  United ####ed this up big time
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I believe they offered $800 with no takers . Can't blame people for wanting to get home. I was told  they are capped on what they can offer by some regulation . 

Seems like no bigger power trip than the tsa & people working the gates

 
These are all the facts that have been reported

  • Flight was not oversold and began boarding normally
  • With a short timeframe the ops team realized they needed to move a 4 person crew on this route, or risk a domino effect on Monday.

    They not only had to get 4 people there, but they had to get there by 10pm or it was pointless. So the clock was ticking. (They got there at 10:02)

[*]The boarding started and they asked for volunteers

[*]They couldn't attract 4 volunteers (got 3)

[*]Gate agent began the involuntary denial of boarding process, despite boarding already happening.  

[*]Guy gets rekt

Where they are ####ed is that they needed to IDB the people before they got on the plane.  The most likely situation is the gate agent didn't realize this was both UA and USA policy/law.  Secondly, it would appear (though hasn't been reported yet) that the gate agent didn't tell the CPD exactly what was going on.  They went in full SWAT as if this guy was a problem.  What they were told will be very relevant here to CPD liability.  If the GA lied about the nature of this removal to escalate the situation UA is absolutely ####ed.  

The GA was likely under extreme pressure due to the domino that was literally going to fall if they waited even another few minutes.  Probably had the ops team in her ear the whole way, if they weren't actually at the gate.  

 
3C's said:
 and any "boycott" will never have any traction.
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My wife and I are just 2 people but we're scheduled for at least 2 more round trips this year. United will not be considered. If all the people on social media are as outraged as they claimed to be (or not) there will be plenty of lost business for United.

 
EYLive said:
My wife and I are just 2 people but we're scheduled for at least 2 more round trips this year. United will not be considered. If all the people on social media are as outraged as they claimed to be (or not) there will be plenty of lost business for United.
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If we are lucky they will go belly up and there will be less choices for air travel 

 
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