Does college football hurt player development for the NFL? (1 Viewer)

[shader]

I'm 35 and have never even considered it. But then the other day it popped into my mind and I started considering all the reasons why I think the above is true.

One of the big reasons I feel college football is bad for the growth of a player are the practice limits combined with 105 man rosters. Lets face it, collegiate coaches have very limited time to work with their players. Much less than they used to. With big rosters, they also can't give the players the level of one-on-one coaching that they may need. The NCAA (rightly so) has to consider the athlete's need to participate in class and so they can't allow instruction all day every day.

But contrast this with baseball. A baseball player can go to college or go to the minor leagues. In the minors, he gets heavy playing time and a ton of one on one assistance from his coaching staff, who is looking to fine-tune his skills for the pro game. If I'm a second baseman, and I get drafted and have a great shot at making an NFL team, I'm going to the minors and am going to work 110% at my craft. College wouldn't even enter into the equation for me, as I have a shot at making millions by the time I'm 30, after which I can go get a degree and use my money to be successful after baseball.

But for football players, this isn't a real option. They have to go to school. They have limited time they can work with coaches. In fact, they can't even work with their coaching staffs outside of scheduled times if they want to!

Not only that, but college schools are so focused on winning, that many have absolutely no desire to teach players offenses and techniques that will help them in the NFL. How many great QB's and WR's have had talent, but have been in gimmicky collegiate offenses that creates habits that have to be "un-learned" when they get to the next level.

Now we have to recognize that an NFL draft has around 250 players and a recruiting class for 125 college teams has about 3000 players. So there are only 8-10% of college players that will go to the NFL (Division 1). So I'm not saying we should abolish college football or anything of the sort.

But at some point, I wonder if prospective NFL players that want to finetune their game and have no desire to waste time in college, will be allowed to go to practice squads or some sort of minor league system that can allow the to focus all their attention on football.

 

[EBF]

I think it only hurts the really gifted guys like Richardson and Peterson who could've been NFL starters as college freshmen. But there are probably 5-10 guys like that across all positions in a given draft class. Football is a strength based game and most of these guys aren't physically ready until 20-21-22, so they don't lose much by spending a few years in college. And some of them probably grow as people during that time, although many of them don't.

 

[SacramentoBob]

I think it only hurts the really gifted guys like Richardson and Peterson who could've been NFL starters as college freshmen. But there are probably 5-10 guys like that across all positions in a given draft class. Football is a strength based game and most of these guys aren't physically ready until 20-21-22, so they don't lose much by spending a few years in college. And some of them probably grow as people during that time, although many of them don't.

I don't think you're really addressing his point. His point is a minor league system run by the NFL would be more geared towards making good NFL players out of their talent pool, vs the college system which is geared towards winning in college and maintaining a front about getting a college education.

 

[TakiToki]

I think it only hurts the really gifted guys like Richardson and Peterson who could've been NFL starters as college freshmen. But there are probably 5-10 guys like that across all positions in a given draft class. Football is a strength based game and most of these guys aren't physically ready until 20-21-22, so they don't lose much by spending a few years in college. And some of them probably grow as people during that time, although many of them don't.

I don't think you're really addressing his point. His point is a minor league system run by the NFL would be more geared towards making good NFL players out of their talent pool, vs the college system which is geared towards winning in college and maintaining a front about getting a college education.

Yeah, but winning in college is mostly predicated on convincing the top recruits that you'll put them in the pros. College football is pretty much just minor league football with some wacky rules and regulations. I agree that things could be a bit more efficient if we'd just cut the charade but don't think it would make that big a difference. I'd guess that time is budgeted well enough that those with legitimate NFL aspirations and talent are given plenty of individual instruction and clear methods of self-improvement.

 

[KCitons]

Two things to keep in mind.

1 - college football was never meant to be a developmental league for the NFL. It was a way to give student athletes a free college education. It then morphed into a cash cow for many universities and the welfare of the players have become secondary to the all mighty dollar.

2 - because of my above point, we have taught the best athletes in the country that they will get paid, if they can play. I see no player in their right mind wanting to risk an injury in a developmental league.

While the Ryan Leafs', JaMarcus Russell's, and Blair Thomas' of the drafts suck for the fans of that team. I think it's a part of the NFL that gives it's fans their highs and lows.

 

[Raider Nation]

I think it only hurts the really gifted guys like Richardson and Peterson who could've been NFL starters as college freshmen.

Richardson didn't even start in college as a college freshman.

 

[EBF]

I think it only hurts the really gifted guys like Richardson and Peterson who could've been NFL starters as college freshmen.

Richardson didn't even start in college as a college freshman.

Neither did Andrew Luck. Doesn't mean he shouldn't have. I remember seeing him that year. He was good enough to walk on the field start for at least 25-30% of the teams in the NFL.

 

[dgreen]

Right now, the NFL gets an extremely large minor league that they don't have to pay for. Could players be more ready if there was a professional minor league? Sure, but at what cost and who is going to pay for it? College-trained players are good enough. And, again, the NFL doesn't have to pay for it.

 

[Raider Nation]

I think it only hurts the really gifted guys like Richardson and Peterson who could've been NFL starters as college freshmen.

Richardson didn't even start in college as a college freshman.

Neither did Andrew Luck. Doesn't mean he shouldn't have. I remember seeing him that year. He was good enough to walk on the field start for at least 25-30% of the teams in the NFL.

Top 30 NFL rushers in 2009 (Richardson's freshman season):Which 9 of these guys (30%) would 18-year-old Trent Richardson have seen more work than?

RK	PLAYER	TEAM	ATT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	20+	TD	YDS/G	FUM	1DN1	Chris Johnson, RB	TEN	358	2,006	5.6	91	22	14	125.4	3	792	Steven Jackson, RB	STL	324	1,416	4.4	58	10	4	94.4	2	613	Thomas Jones, RB	NYJ	331	1,402	4.2	71	8	14	87.6	2	644	Maurice Jones-Drew, RB	JAC	312	1,391	4.5	80	8	15	86.9	2	685	Adrian Peterson, RB	MIN	314	1,383	4.4	64	12	18	86.4	6	746	Ray Rice, RB	        BAL	254	1,339	5.3	59	11	7	83.7	2	547	Ryan Grant, RB	        GB	282	1,253	4.4	62	8	11	78.3	0	618	Cedric Benson, RB	CIN	301	1,251	4.2	42	10	6	96.2	1	579	Jonathan Stewart, RB	CAR	221	1,133	5.1	67	11	10	70.8	3	5410	Ricky Williams, RB	MIA	241	1,121	4.7	68	4	11	70.1	4	55RK	PLAYER	TEAM	ATT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	20+	TD	YDS/G	FUM	1DN11	Frank Gore, RB	        SF	229	1,120	4.9	80	11	10	80.0	4	4712 	Jamaal Charles, RB	KC	190	1,120	5.9	76	9	7	74.7	2	5413	DeAngelo Williams, RB	CAR	216	1,117	5.2	77	7	7	85.9	3	5114	Rashard Mendenhall, RB	PIT	242	1,108	4.6	60	9	7	69.3	3	4815	Fred Jackson, RB	BUF	237	1,062	4.5	43	5	2	66.4	2	4316	Knowshon Moreno, RB	DEN	247	947	3.8	36	2	7	59.2	2	5217	Marion Barber, RB	DAL	214	932	4.4	35	5	7	62.1	1	5818	Matt Forte, RB	        CHI	258	929	3.6	61	3	4	58.1	5	3919	Michael Turner, RB	ATL	178	871	4.9	58	9	10	79.2	4	4320	Jerome Harrison, RB	CLE	194	862	4.4	71	3	5	61.6	2	37RK	PLAYER	TEAM	ATT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	20+	TD	YDS/G	FUM	1DN21	Brandon Jacobs, RB	NYG	224	835	3.7	31	2	5	55.7	2	4322	Joseph Addai, RB	IND	219	828	3.8	21	2	10	55.2	1	4423	Cadillac Williams, RB	TB	211	823	3.9	35	7	4	51.4	1	4324	Beanie Wells, RB	ARI	176	793	4.5	33	4	7	49.6	4	3925 	Pierre Thomas, RB	NO	147	793	5.4	34	7	6	56.6	1	3626	Ahmad Bradshaw, RB	NYG	163	778	4.8	38	6	7	51.9	3	4627	Laurence Maroney, RB	NE	194	757	3.9	45	2	9	50.5	3	4428	Kevin Smith, RB	        DET	217	747	3.4	31	2	4	57.5	3	3629	LaDainian Tomlinson, RB	SD	223	730	3.3	36	3	12	52.1	1	4030	Felix Jones, RB	        DAL	116	685	5.9	56	5	3	48.9	2	24

 

[ConnSKINS26]

This effects RB's the most. Many need a strength program for a year or two before they have NFL bodies, regardless of frame, but many are just wasting valuable tread on their tires when they could be getting paid at 19 or so. I'd eventually like to see the restrictions on who can declare and when to be abolished entirely, or at least make it so you only need one year of college ball to declare.

 

[EBF]

I think it only hurts the really gifted guys like Richardson and Peterson who could've been NFL starters as college freshmen.

Richardson didn't even start in college as a college freshman.

Neither did Andrew Luck. Doesn't mean he shouldn't have. I remember seeing him that year. He was good enough to walk on the field start for at least 25-30% of the teams in the NFL.

Top 30 NFL rushers in 2009 (Richardson's freshman season):Which 9 of these guys (30%) would 18-year-old Trent Richardson have seen more work than?

RK	PLAYER	TEAM	ATT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	20+	TD	YDS/G	FUM	1DN7	Ryan Grant, RB	        GB	282	1,253	4.4	62	8	11	78.3	0	618	Cedric Benson, RB	CIN	301	1,251	4.2	42	10	6	96.2	1	5716	Knowshon Moreno, RB	DEN	247	947	3.8	36	2	7	59.2	2	5217	Marion Barber, RB	DAL	214	932	4.4	35	5	7	62.1	1	5818	Matt Forte, RB	        CHI	258	929	3.6	61	3	4	58.1	5	3920	Jerome Harrison, RB	CLE	194	862	4.4	71	3	5	61.6	2	3721	Brandon Jacobs, RB	NYG	224	835	3.7	31	2	5	55.7	2	4322	Joseph Addai, RB	IND	219	828	3.8	21	2	10	55.2	1	4423	Cadillac Williams, RB	TB	211	823	3.9	35	7	4	51.4	1	4324	Beanie Wells, RB	ARI	176	793	4.5	33	4	7	49.6	4	3925 	Pierre Thomas, RB	NO	147	793	5.4	34	7	6	56.6	1	3627	Laurence Maroney, RB	NE	194	757	3.9	45	2	9	50.5	3	4428	Kevin Smith, RB	        DET	217	747	3.4	31	2	4	57.5	3	3629	LaDainian Tomlinson, RB	SD	223	730	3.3	36	3	12	52.1	1	4030	Felix Jones, RB	        DAL	116	685	5.9	56	5	3	48.9	2	24

 

[Raider Nation]

 

[coolnerd]

using college football is not the best system, but is by far the cheapest and most efficient possible way for the league. The universities get send people to cut and shoot texas and figure out if the 6'4 210 guy dominating at TE is DE, LB, TE or non-prospect. The universities have to figure out how to put 35-40,000 in a stadium in small cities like Waco. the universities have to pay for the room, board, education and injuries for at least three if not five years.

 

[Red Herring]

How much would it really hurt to have a developmental league for the top 400, give or take, college players to be drafted into, with perhaps another few rounds added onto the regular NFL draft every year? I'm just spitballing here, but maybe a league with a team for each division, with coaches teaching them a basic pro-style system? The very top guys would get a start on their careers, perhaps even with required, specialized college-level classes specifically made to help them succeed during and after football. Meanwhile the another ~3000 college level guys still get recruited and if they play well, still have the opportunity to be drafted if their skills/bodies develop, including a few that might not have quite made the cut for D-1.

eta: Those players that make it into the "minor league" would also be getting paid right away, hopefully eliminating some of the problems college ball has with corruption and agents and such.

 

[EBF]

Laugh, but he was ready for the NFL as a true freshman. Here's what he was doing back then.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFVS8GqXzCUHe was already built like a tank and shaming his teammates in the weight room. These guys come along sometimes. DJ Williams (the linebacker) grew up in the Bay Area and was something like 6'1" 225 as a high school senior. He would have made an NFL roster and contributed in some capacity if given the opportunity. There are a few of these guys every year.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Here's a benefit that the NFL might get under the current system. There's a lot of good college coaches that come up with quirky offensive systems that wouldn't be experimented with in the NFL. Those systems, if they are good, eventually get tried in the NFL and some stick.

 

[Xue]

College coaches aren't paid to develop players. They're paid to win games. Most of the time the best way to put points on the board is a spread offense of some sort because they don't have time to teach a guy to take snaps under center. Besides it's easier to read the defense in the shotgun.

 

[Xue]

I think it only hurts the really gifted guys like Richardson and Peterson who could've been NFL starters as college freshmen.

Richardson didn't even start in college as a college freshman.

Richardson was 210 lbs in high school. At 5'9", that's an NFL-ready body. Jonathan Stewart was 224. He had an NFL-ready body.In contrast, Ray Rice was only 188, Maurice Jones-Drew was only 190. Both of them were around 205 when drafted.

 

[Tchula]

I dont see a minor league system generating the revenue college football does. It all comes down to $$$

 

[Raider Nation]

I think it only hurts the really gifted guys like Richardson and Peterson who could've been NFL starters as college freshmen.

Richardson didn't even start in college as a college freshman.

Richardson was 210 lbs in high school. At 5'9", that's an NFL-ready body. Jonathan Stewart was 224. He had an NFL-ready body.In contrast, Ray Rice was only 188, Maurice Jones-Drew was only 190. Both of them were around 205 when drafted.

That's fine, but it doesn't make my comment untrue.There's a reason you can't go to the NFL right out of high school. Whether you have the body for it or not, 99.99999999% of humans would not be ready for the emotional/psychological leap to the professional ranks in that sport. Hell, many guys who went to college for FOUR years still aren't ready mentally, even if they are physical specimens.

 

[TakiToki]

Here's a benefit that the NFL might get under the current system. There's a lot of good college coaches that come up with quirky offensive systems that wouldn't be experimented with in the NFL. Those systems, if they are good, eventually get tried in the NFL and some stick.

That line of thinking could work the other way, as well. Many high schools run the same schemes and use the same terminology as the local college team, allowing continuity in an unusual system. That is a benefit of a farm system. Since NFL teams don't have the dedicated pipeline that major college programs effectively do have, they take the best available talent from many different systems and try to meld it together, which can lead to homogeneous sets and schemes.

 

[coolnerd]

I think it only hurts the really gifted guys like Richardson and Peterson who could've been NFL starters as college freshmen.

Richardson didn't even start in college as a college freshman.

Richardson was 210 lbs in high school. At 5'9", that's an NFL-ready body. Jonathan Stewart was 224. He had an NFL-ready body.In contrast, Ray Rice was only 188, Maurice Jones-Drew was only 190. Both of them were around 205 when drafted.

That's fine, but it doesn't make my comment untrue.There's a reason you can't go to the NFL right out of high school. Whether you have the body for it or not, 99.99999999% of humans would not be ready for the emotional/psychological leap to the professional ranks in that sport. Hell, many guys who went to college for FOUR years still aren't ready mentally, even if they are physical specimens.

Yep. Using baseball as an example (and it is non-contact), the single best physical specimen in at least 10 years is Bryce harper. And while he had a productive rookie year, he still spent a year or so in the minors with maturity still being his biggest weakness.

 

[EBF]

I think it only hurts the really gifted guys like Richardson and Peterson who could've been NFL starters as college freshmen.

Richardson didn't even start in college as a college freshman.

Richardson was 210 lbs in high school. At 5'9", that's an NFL-ready body. Jonathan Stewart was 224. He had an NFL-ready body.In contrast, Ray Rice was only 188, Maurice Jones-Drew was only 190. Both of them were around 205 when drafted.

That's fine, but it doesn't make my comment untrue.There's a reason you can't go to the NFL right out of high school. Whether you have the body for it or not, 99.99999999% of humans would not be ready for the emotional/psychological leap to the professional ranks in that sport. Hell, many guys who went to college for FOUR years still aren't ready mentally, even if they are physical specimens.

It's not like there's some really steep learning curve for playing running back.Get the ball. Run the ball. It's almost that simple. The position is 95% physical ability and instincts. That's why you typically see so many rookies able to play well there immediately. Richardson was basically the same guy in 2009 that he is today. He would've walked into several NFL starting lineups. The main reason more people couldn't do it is because they aren't physically ready, but that wouldn't have been an issue with him.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I am somewhat surprised that no one has mentioned schools /NCAA paying college players. I'm against that.

Myself, I don't understand why there isn't a minor league or several minor leagues. I understand the NFL doesn't want to mess with the colleges and stay on good terms but... Let payers be paid when they are 18, they are old enough to make their own decisions. But not by the colleges. Entrepreneurs could make a killing if they just start paying these guys and play in small towns just like in the original NFL (Pottsville, Masillion, Providence, etc.).

 

[CalBear]

Two things to keep in mind. 1 - college football was never meant to be a developmental league for the NFL. It was a way to give student athletes a free college education. It then morphed into a cash cow for many universities and the welfare of the players have become secondary to the all mighty dollar.

To be more accurate, college football was never meant to be a revenue-generating sport. It was just a sport that colleges competed against each other in. Pro football was created so that the best college football players could make money in a manner other than just demanding it from people on the street. And prior to Pete Rozelle, college football was more important than pro football. But yes, I think the idea that players staying in college will make them better pro football players has no basis in reality.

 

[KCitons]

Two things to keep in mind.

1 - college football was never meant to be a developmental league for the NFL. It was a way to give student athletes a free college education. It then morphed into a cash cow for many universities and the welfare of the players have become secondary to the all mighty dollar.

To be more accurate, college football was never meant to be a revenue-generating sport. It was just a sport that colleges competed against each other in. Pro football was created so that the best college football players could make money in a manner other than just demanding it from people on the street. And prior to Pete Rozelle, college football was more important than pro football.

But yes, I think the idea that players staying in college will make them better pro football players has no basis in reality.

Exactly, it wasn't until they realized how much money sports could generate that players began receiving scholarships. A lot of good athletes never went into the NFL. Due to their scholarship, they were able to get a top notch education and go on to higher paying jobs than playing football as a pro.

 

[CalBear]

I disagree, like any sport, I think it will bear down in some instances to case by case situations and in other instances I think it will bear down to positional value relative to the NFL draft and draft trends. Some running backs, sure, they might be able to translate quickly, maybe even some wide receivers. But I think the college game does bring out some refinements with QBs and offensive linemen and typical leaders on the defensive side of the ball, some linebackers and safeties on the average. In every case? Probably not, but I would say on the average. For every LeBron James and Kevin Garnett, there are probably 1000 Anderson Hunts, guys who could use all the college seasoning they can get and will likely suffer without it. The NBA runs a D league, but in essence, it's a farm for big men to compete more than the other positions. If you can cull out a Jeremy Lin on occasion great, but one of the biggest factors for NBA young centers and how many of them take so long to develop, is in part actually playing against a higher level of competition and getting superior coaching.

Why would a QB learn more playing in a gimmick offense against James Madison, than playing a pro-style offense in an NFL developmental league specifically designed to improve his NFL prospects? Same question for offensive linemen and anyone else on the field.

 

[Da Guru]

I am somewhat surprised that no one has mentioned schools /NCAA paying college players. I'm against that.Myself, I don't understand why there isn't a minor league or several minor leagues. I understand the NFL doesn't want to mess with the colleges and stay on good terms but... Let payers be paid when they are 18, they are old enough to make their own decisions. But not by the colleges. Entrepreneurs could make a killing if they just start paying these guys and play in small towns just like in the original NFL (Pottsville, Masillion, Providence, etc.).

I agree. Let players who do not want to go to school like the Ohio State QB get paid to play minor league football. Then get colleges back to the original format of having true student-athletes.

 

[GregR]

You haven't explained any benefit that would make it worth the cost.

A minor league system would never draw close to the money CFB does.

Improving the players the amount that would result would not result in the NFL filling larger stadiums or selling more jerseys.

It isn't a better system for the people who would make the decision.

 

[CalBear]

You haven't explained any benefit that would make it worth the cost.A minor league system would never draw close to the money CFB does.

That sounds like a benefit to me.

 

[RenegadeGM]

I think it only hurts the really gifted guys like Richardson and Peterson who could've been NFL starters as college freshmen.

Richardson didn't even start in college as a college freshman.

Richardson was 210 lbs in high school. At 5'9", that's an NFL-ready body. Jonathan Stewart was 224. He had an NFL-ready body.In contrast, Ray Rice was only 188, Maurice Jones-Drew was only 190. Both of them were around 205 when drafted.

That's fine, but it doesn't make my comment untrue.There's a reason you can't go to the NFL right out of high school. Whether you have the body for it or not, 99.99999999% of humans would not be ready for the emotional/psychological leap to the professional ranks in that sport. Hell, many guys who went to college for FOUR years still aren't ready mentally, even if they are physical specimens.

It's not like there's some really steep learning curve for playing running back.Get the ball. Run the ball. It's almost that simple. The position is 95% physical ability and instincts. That's why you typically see so many rookies able to play well there immediately. Richardson was basically the same guy in 2009 that he is today. He would've walked into several NFL starting lineups. The main reason more people couldn't do it is because they aren't physically ready, but that wouldn't have been an issue with him.

How many times have we seen a seemingly less talented starting RB stay on the field while the exciting younger player who flashes some playmaking ability doesn't get as many snaps, sparking a "Free Player X" thread???Oh yeah, pass blocking and protections...

 

[KCitons]

I guess if it was a good idea and it was profitable, it would have happened already. Oh wait, it did. NFL Europe, XFL, USFL, UFL. I know, not all are true developmental leagues, but they couldn't stay afloat.

Everyone wants to watch the NFL and every player wants to be in the NFL. Anything less, is just going through the motions.

 

[CalBear]

I guess if it was a good idea and it was profitable, it would have happened already. Oh wait, it did. NFL Europe, XFL, USFL, UFL. I know, not all are true developmental leagues, but they couldn't stay afloat. Everyone wants to watch the NFL and every player wants to be in the NFL. Anything less, is just going through the motions.

Yes, well, the problem is right now they're prohibited from playing in the NFL for 2 years after high school. So they go pretend to be students for two years, instead of working on their sport skills (as baseball players do, to take one example).

 

[GregR]

You haven't explained any benefit that would make it worth the cost.A minor league system would never draw close to the money CFB does.

That sounds like a benefit to me.

Failing to draw amounts of money that would make it successful financially is not a benefit.

 

[Two Deep]

If you play QB for Urban Meyer ...............then definitely yes!

 

[RenegadeGM]

Jason LaCanfor's Blog at CBS Sports:

Spring developmental league to be discussed at NFL spring meeting

The league's Competition Committee has, in the past, considered pushing for a development league to replace the discontinued NFL Europe, and given the recent demise of the United Football League, there is a renewed effort to explore this possibility in 2013, according to several sources.

High-ranking officials believe it possible that the Competition Committee makes a recommendation to the owners on such a proposal this spring. There is not a consensus yet on the matter among members of the committee, sources said, but there is significant support for it and further examination of the options is ahead.

In theory, the league would begin small, perhaps four-to-six teams based in the southern United States. In the past the league has evaluated whether it makes sense to create a bus league, perhaps based completely in Florida, that mimics baseball's Arizona Fall League or Instructional League, where teams could send young prospects to get seasoning, with easy geography for scouts to navigate.

The Competition Committee is also studying proposals for the creation of an academy that would work as sort of a 33rd NFL team, as one source put it, that would train together in the fall under the eye of former coaches, and establish a central spot to fill roster voids that occur in-season. Currently, teams are calling in free agents for workouts every week, usually on Tuesday, and the pool of players includes those working day jobs, in various states of retirement, and various states of conditioning.

The idea with the academy would be to maintain a centralized taxi squad of sorts, where players are focused on football and receiving proper nutrition and training, to try to mimic football shape and a locker room environment while they try to get back into the league. As with everything in business, finances would certainly play a role -- funding either a developmental league and/or an academy (as the concepts are not mutually exclusive) would be expensive -- but commissioner Roger Goodell is focused on growing and expanding the game, and finding means of innovation at a time when the public's demand for football is at an all-time high.

Many coaches and executives supported NFL Europe as a means for giving novice players an opportunity to get game experience, with the drawback being the fact the players missed out on offseason conditioning work as they were a continent away. The league continues to search for a way to fill that gap, and this could become a considerable topic of conversation when the owners, execs and coaches gather in March.