Does Ryan Williams have the size to be a 3 down back? (1 Viewer)

[Eminence]

Ryan Williams (5-9, 207 lbs)

+212 lbs at Combine.

+40 yard dash: 4.61

+Bench Press: 19 reps

+Vertical Jump: 40 inches

+Broad Jump: 123 inches

+3 cone drill: 6.96

+20 yard shuttle: 4.18

Maurice Jones-Drew (5-7 208 lbs)

+207 lbs at Combine.

+40 yard dash: 4.39

+Bench Press: 18 reps

+Vertical Jump: 36 inches

+Broad Jump: 116 inches

+3 cone drill: 7.08

+20 yard shuttle: 4.41

DeAngelo Williams (5-9, 217 lbs)

+214 lbs at Combine.

+40 yard dash: 4.45

+Bench Press: DNC

+Vertical Jump: 34.5 inches

+Broad Jump: 129 inches

+3 cone drill: 6.57

+20 yard shuttle: 4.10

LeSean McCoy (5-11, 208 lbs)

+198 lbs at Combine.

+40 yard dash: 4.50

+Bench Press: 17 reps

+Vertical Jump: 29 inches

+Broad Jump: 107 inches

+3 cone drill: 6.82

+20 yard shuttle: 4.18

Does Williams have the size to be a 3 down back?

Who does he compare to?

 

[jurb26]

Ryan Williams only obstacle to being a 3 down back is Bennie Wells.

 

[Captain Hook]

Ryan Williams only obstacle to being a 3 down back is Bennie Wells.

Wrong - Ryan Williams main obstacle is Ryan Williams ............ IMO doesn't have the make up to be a star running back. Wells is already on notice from Whisenhunt that he better "show up" at Cardinals camp and that still doesn't make me think Williams will win the job.

 

[jurb26]

Ryan Williams only obstacle to being a 3 down back is Bennie Wells.

You have no interest in the fact that he weighed in at 207 lbs last year?Maurice Jones-Drew (5,7 208 lbs)

Ryan Williams (5,9 207 lbs)

LeSean McCoy (5,11 208 lbs)

Big differences in those three body types right there.

No, not really. He was a 22 year old rookie. Almost all of which put on a few extra lbs in their 1st couple of season in the NFL. On top of that, he displayed the ability to carry the load in college and has a great skill set for a 3 down back in the NFL. While 207 is certainly not the high end of RB weight, I don't think it's a career limiting size. I think that has been proven enough over the past several years around here with the useless threads about size, BMI and such. The NFL isn't designed the same as it was years ago. Smaller backs can and are more effective in today's "softer" game.

 

[whatadai]

Ryan Williams only obstacle to being a 3 down back is Bennie Wells.

Pretty sure that his knee cap is in his way, but what do I know...

 

[jurb26]

Wells is already on notice from Whisenhunt that he better "show up" at Cardinals camp and that still doesn't make me think Williams will win the job.

What does this really have to do with anything other than the fact that Wiz wants his successful RBBC?

 

[jurb26]

Ryan Williams only obstacle to being a 3 down back is Bennie Wells.

Pretty sure that his knee cap is in his way, but what do I know...

The knee cap will be an obstacle for the rest of his career? I didn't know we were limiting this discussion to only 2013.

 

[JPeso]

Closest compare to me is DeAngelo.

 

[whatadai]

Ryan Williams only obstacle to being a 3 down back is Bennie Wells.

Pretty sure that his knee cap is in his way, but what do I know...

The knee cap will be an obstacle for the rest of his career? I didn't know we were limiting this discussion to only 2013.

Yes, it will be an obstacle for the rest of his career. His kneecap was in his thigh. You don't know if it's healed, and even if it is, how well it has healed. I wouldn't be surprised if his knee never gets back to full strength. Will he still be able to make cuts and run on it? Yes, but a weaker knee could cause him to get injured again or favor the knee so much that it makes him less effective or cause wear and tear on the left leg. It's such a huge injury that it has to be brought up when talking about him.

 

[jurb26]

Ryan Williams only obstacle to being a 3 down back is Bennie Wells.

Pretty sure that his knee cap is in his way, but what do I know...

The knee cap will be an obstacle for the rest of his career? I didn't know we were limiting this discussion to only 2013.

Yes, it will be an obstacle for the rest of his career. His kneecap was in his thigh. You don't know if it's healed, and even if it is, how well it has healed. I wouldn't be surprised if his knee never gets back to full strength. Will he still be able to make cuts and run on it? Yes, but a weaker knee could cause him to get injured again or favor the knee so much that it makes him less effective or cause wear and tear on the left leg. It's such a huge injury that it has to be brought up when talking about him.

I haven't seen any reports saying this will be a career long issue. Every report I've seen this off-season is saying he is well on his way back and ahead of schedule.Here is the most recent.

 

[whatadai]

Ryan Williams only obstacle to being a 3 down back is Bennie Wells.

Pretty sure that his knee cap is in his way, but what do I know...

The knee cap will be an obstacle for the rest of his career? I didn't know we were limiting this discussion to only 2013.

Yes, it will be an obstacle for the rest of his career. His kneecap was in his thigh. You don't know if it's healed, and even if it is, how well it has healed. I wouldn't be surprised if his knee never gets back to full strength. Will he still be able to make cuts and run on it? Yes, but a weaker knee could cause him to get injured again or favor the knee so much that it makes him less effective or cause wear and tear on the left leg. It's such a huge injury that it has to be brought up when talking about him.

I haven't seen any reports saying this will be a career long issue. Every report I've seen this off-season is saying he is well on his way back and ahead of schedule.Here is the most recent.

A ruptured patella tendon is a lifelong issue. Could he still have a great career? Yes. But at one point in his life he'll have problems with his knee...will it be in 3 years or will it be when he's 60 years old? I don't know...I'm just saying it will effect him at one point in his life and that should come into consideration.

 

[DropKick]

Ryan Williams only obstacle to being a 3 down back is Bennie Wells.

Pretty sure that his knee cap is in his way, but what do I know...

The knee cap will be an obstacle for the rest of his career? I didn't know we were limiting this discussion to only 2013.

Yes, it will be an obstacle for the rest of his career. His kneecap was in his thigh. You don't know if it's healed, and even if it is, how well it has healed. I wouldn't be surprised if his knee never gets back to full strength. Will he still be able to make cuts and run on it? Yes, but a weaker knee could cause him to get injured again or favor the knee so much that it makes him less effective or cause wear and tear on the left leg. It's such a huge injury that it has to be brought up when talking about him.

I haven't seen any reports saying this will be a career long issue. Every report I've seen this off-season is saying he is well on his way back and ahead of schedule.Here is the most recent.

A ruptured patella tendon is a lifelong issue. Could he still have a great career? Yes. But at one point in his life he'll have problems with his knee...will it be in 3 years or will it be when he's 60 years old? I don't know...I'm just saying it will effect him at one point in his life and that should come into consideration.

Stayed at a Holiday Inn last night?

 

[Bird]

Ryan Williams only obstacle to being a 3 down back is Bennie Wells.

Pretty sure that his knee cap is in his way, but what do I know...

The knee cap will be an obstacle for the rest of his career? I didn't know we were limiting this discussion to only 2013.

Yes, it will be an obstacle for the rest of his career. His kneecap was in his thigh. You don't know if it's healed, and even if it is, how well it has healed. I wouldn't be surprised if his knee never gets back to full strength. Will he still be able to make cuts and run on it? Yes, but a weaker knee could cause him to get injured again or favor the knee so much that it makes him less effective or cause wear and tear on the left leg. It's such a huge injury that it has to be brought up when talking about him.

I haven't seen any reports saying this will be a career long issue. Every report I've seen this off-season is saying he is well on his way back and ahead of schedule.Here is the most recent.

A ruptured patella tendon is a lifelong issue. Could he still have a great career? Yes. But at one point in his life he'll have problems with his knee...will it be in 3 years or will it be when he's 60 years old? I don't know...I'm just saying it will effect him at one point in his life and that should come into consideration.

Stayed at a Holiday Inn last night?

No way he did or else on top of his orthopedic diagnosis he would have also learned the correct usage of effect/affect.

 

[whatadai]

Stayed at a Holiday Inn last night?

No way he did or else on top of his orthopedic diagnosis he would have also learned the correct usage of effect/affect.

Oh wow, one grammatical error on a forum and I'm an idiot. Funny how easy it is to find a credible site with information for ruptured patellar tendons on NFL players. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21813442Average of 45.4 games. Like I said...could be 3 years or could be never. If you think it shouldn't be taken into consideration, you're just an idiot. Just cause you drafted him as a rookie and can't sell him for #### doesn't mean you should insult everyone that thinks your player might not do well cause in the end you're still the potato that drafted him, not me. If you look it up they also say that they need an average of 18 months for recovery and it hasn't even been a year for Williams yet. I hope he returns and does great and raises this average, but fantasy-wise I'm going to take it into consideration when filling my rosters.

 

[Scooby1974]

How will Williams speedy 4.61 translate along with the knee injury? Size wise he could fit with the guys mentioned...but Brandon Jacobs is faster than the kid, pre-injury.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

How will Williams speedy 4.61 translate along with the knee injury? Size wise he could fit with the guys mentioned...but Brandon Jacobs is faster than the kid, pre-injury.

Ryan Williams has incredible vision. That's his best attribute as a runner.

 

[Scooby1974]

How will Williams speedy 4.61 translate along with the knee injury? Size wise he could fit with the guys mentioned...but Brandon Jacobs is faster than the kid, pre-injury.

Ryan Williams has incredible vision. That's his best attribute as a runner.

So he sees them comin' to tackle his likely slower self better than the next guy? I'm just playing. However, I'm just not seeing this guy take over...at best he's the lesser in a rbbc with Beanie.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

How will Williams speedy 4.61 translate along with the knee injury? Size wise he could fit with the guys mentioned...but Brandon Jacobs is faster than the kid, pre-injury.

Ryan Williams has incredible vision. That's his best attribute as a runner.

So he sees them comin' to tackle his likely slower self better than the next guy? I'm just playing. However, I'm just not seeing this guy take over...at best he's the lesser in a rbbc with Beanie.

I think you're severely underrating Williams' talent. Obviously everybody should be concerned about his injury. But I think he's a much more talented prospect than David Wilson, for instance, despite Wilson's speed.

 

[NJ]

I'm gonna guess this has probably been pointed out many times before in Ryan Williams threads, but this is the first time I ever noticed this. In the Rookie Scouting Portfolio, Matt Waldman always compares incoming rookies to players of the past in terms of who they are most built like and their running styles, etc. So when I saw this thread I naturally went back to look at who he compared Ryan Williams too and he compared him to Cadillac Williams and actually said that he had concerns that his hard cutting and intense running style would be hard on his body and he might suffer the same fate as Cadillac. This was of course written before Williams suffered his ruptured patella tendon the same injury as cadillac. That's just a little scary...

 

[Multiple Scores]

I'm gonna guess this has probably been pointed out many times before in Ryan Williams threads, but this is the first time I ever noticed this. In the Rookie Scouting Portfolio, Matt Waldman always compares incoming rookies to players of the past in terms of who they are most built like and their running styles, etc. So when I saw this thread I naturally went back to look at who he compared Ryan Williams too and he compared him to Cadillac Williams and actually said that he had concerns that his hard cutting and intense running style would be hard on his body and he might suffer the same fate as Cadillac. This was of course written before Williams suffered his ruptured patella tendon the same injury as cadillac. That's just a little scary...

Ryan Williams had the same injury that ruined Caddy?Ouch

 

[Eminence]

I'm gonna guess this has probably been pointed out many times before in Ryan Williams threads, but this is the first time I ever noticed this. In the Rookie Scouting Portfolio, Matt Waldman always compares incoming rookies to players of the past in terms of who they are most built like and their running styles, etc. So when I saw this thread I naturally went back to look at who he compared Ryan Williams too and he compared him to Cadillac Williams and actually said that he had concerns that his hard cutting and intense running style would be hard on his body and he might suffer the same fate as Cadillac. This was of course written before Williams suffered his ruptured patella tendon the same injury as cadillac. That's just a little scary...

Ryan Williams had the same injury that ruined Caddy?Ouch

Before this gets out of hand, his was a freak injury while being tackled. Cadillac Williams tore both muscles, each leg a separate year.

 

[NJ]

Before this gets out of hand, his was a freak injury while being tackled. Cadillac Williams tore both muscles, each leg a separate year.

I'll take your word for it that it was a completely different injury, I admittedly don't remember exactly how Cadillac's injury occurred, I just know they both had patellar tendon injuries which I thought was a little bit freaky when I saw Waldman's prediction. I googled Cadillac's injury and there was talk about his kneecap dislocating while being hit, so it sounded at least similar to Ryan's injury to me.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Closest compare to me is DeAngelo.

He's too slow for the Williams comp IMO. 4.46 and 4.61 is night and day.I think the best comp is as a smaller, more compact version of Lynch. I'm not sure what that means, but I don't think you can rule him out because of his size.

 

[texasbirdfan]

no to continue the nitpick; but his time was 4.59 at the Combine, not 4.61

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=84953&draftyear=2011&genpos=RB

 

[zamboni]

Beware of overreliance of combine numbers - you're talking about a one-time snapshot. It's on-field speed that matters.

The bottom line is that NO ONE knows how Williams will fare this year, when you factor in his injury and the presence of Wells (and his own injury). I've never heard any issues about his size, it's just a matter of whether he shows the skills that many scouts said about him before last season.

He's certainly a guy that I am targeting in the late rounds, but a good preseason may drive up his draft value.

 

[texasbirdfan]

Beware of overreliance of combine numbers - you're talking about a one-time snapshot. It's on-field speed that matters.

The bottom line is that NO ONE knows how Williams will fare this year, when you factor in his injury and the presence of Wells (and his own injury). I've never heard any issues about his size, it's just a matter of whether he shows the skills that many scouts said about him before last season.

He's certainly a guy that I am targeting in the late rounds, but a good preseason may drive up his draft value.

I just had a problem with the OP and another poster couching the "numbers" to prove their point

.

 

[whatadai]

Before this gets out of hand, his was a freak injury while being tackled. Cadillac Williams tore both muscles, each leg a separate year.

I'll take your word for it that it was a completely different injury, I admittedly don't remember exactly how Cadillac's injury occurred, I just know they both had patellar tendon injuries which I thought was a little bit freaky when I saw Waldman's prediction. I googled Cadillac's injury and there was talk about his kneecap dislocating while being hit, so it sounded at least similar to Ryan's injury to me.

A ruptured patellar tendon is when your tendons holding your kneecap to your lower leg tears and so your kneecap moves up your leg, so it's the same injury, just a difference in severity probably.

 

[cstu]

I'm gonna guess this has probably been pointed out many times before in Ryan Williams threads, but this is the first time I ever noticed this. In the Rookie Scouting Portfolio, Matt Waldman always compares incoming rookies to players of the past in terms of who they are most built like and their running styles, etc. So when I saw this thread I naturally went back to look at who he compared Ryan Williams too and he compared him to Cadillac Williams and actually said that he had concerns that his hard cutting and intense running style would be hard on his body and he might suffer the same fate as Cadillac. This was of course written before Williams suffered his ruptured patella tendon the same injury as cadillac. That's just a little scary...

Ryan Williams had the same injury that ruined Caddy?Ouch

I don't believe it ruined Caddy and think he was never as good as he appeared his rookie season. His 5th season YPC after tearing the patellar tendon in both knees was better than his 2nd year.

 

[Eminence]

no to continue the nitpick; but his time was 4.59 at the Combine, not 4.61http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=84953&draftyear=2011&genpos=RB

I get my numbers from NFL.com...http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ryan-williams?id=24954744.61

 

[cstu]

no to continue the nitpick; but his time was 4.59 at the Combine, not 4.61http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=84953&draftyear=2011&genpos=RB

I get my numbers from NFL.com...http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ryan-williams?id=24954744.61

I believe he ran 4.61 at the combine and 4.59 at his pro day. Not spectacular but plenty of RB's with subpar 40 times have done well - Westbrook (4.57) and Bradshaw (4.55) come to mind.

 

[JPeso]

Closest compare to me is DeAngelo.

He's too slow for the Williams comp IMO. 4.46 and 4.61 is night and day.I think the best comp is as a smaller, more compact version of Lynch. I'm not sure what that means, but I don't think you can rule him out because of his size.

So I should have said "a slower, but with superior vision version of DeAngelo." I thought the speed aspect was pretty obvious with the posted times.

 

[The Man With No Name]

According to this article official combine 40 times are incorrect and proven false. NFL Network's unofficial time for Williams was 4.55

 

[texasbirdfan]

no to continue the nitpick; but his time was 4.59 at the Combine, not 4.61http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=84953&draftyear=2011&genpos=RB

I get my numbers from NFL.com...http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ryan-williams?id=24954744.61

I believe he ran 4.61 at the combine and 4.59 at his pro day. Not spectacular but plenty of RB's with subpar 40 times have done well - Westbrook (4.57) and Bradshaw (4.55) come to mind.

Williams4.49 Pro Day4.59 using the Combine's stopwatch

 

[panhead55]

I remember a player who was considered too slow, 4.55 on his pro day, and too small, 5'8" 190 lbs, despite a successfull college career. Consequently he fell in the draft. What was his name? Oh yeah, Emmitt Smith.

 

[Hoosier16]

Stayed at a Holiday Inn last night?

No way he did or else on top of his orthopedic diagnosis he would have also learned the correct usage of effect/affect.

Oh wow, one grammatical error on a forum and I'm an idiot. Funny how easy it is to find a credible site with information for ruptured patellar tendons on NFL players. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21813442

Average of 45.4 games. Like I said...could be 3 years or could be never. If you think it shouldn't be taken into consideration, you're just an idiot. Just cause you drafted him as a rookie and can't sell him for #### doesn't mean you should insult everyone that thinks your player might not do well cause in the end you're still the potato that drafted him, not me. If you look it up they also say that they need an average of 18 months for recovery and it hasn't even been a year for Williams yet. I hope he returns and does great and raises this average, but fantasy-wise I'm going to take it into consideration when filling my rosters.

Where, in that abstract, does it even hint at the possibility of it being a "lifelong issue"? How did you pull that conclusion from their conclusion of:

Although this is usually a season-ending injury when it occurs in isolation, acute surgical repair generally produces good functional results and allows for return to play the following season.


Players chosen earlier in the draft are more likely to return to play.

 

[whatadai]

Stayed at a Holiday Inn last night?

No way he did or else on top of his orthopedic diagnosis he would have also learned the correct usage of effect/affect.

Oh wow, one grammatical error on a forum and I'm an idiot. Funny how easy it is to find a credible site with information for ruptured patellar tendons on NFL players. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21813442

Average of 45.4 games. Like I said...could be 3 years or could be never. If you think it shouldn't be taken into consideration, you're just an idiot. Just cause you drafted him as a rookie and can't sell him for #### doesn't mean you should insult everyone that thinks your player might not do well cause in the end you're still the potato that drafted him, not me. If you look it up they also say that they need an average of 18 months for recovery and it hasn't even been a year for Williams yet. I hope he returns and does great and raises this average, but fantasy-wise I'm going to take it into consideration when filling my rosters.

Where, in that abstract, does it even hint at the possibility of it being a "lifelong issue"? How did you pull that conclusion from their conclusion of:

Although this is usually a season-ending injury when it occurs in isolation, acute surgical repair generally produces good functional results and allows for return to play the following season.


Players chosen earlier in the draft are more likely to return to play.

Nice job completely ignoring the part that talks about how 5/24 players failed to return to play, so only 79% of players returned to play after such an injury. Also note that out of the ones that do return, they end up averaging only 45.4 games before they're out of the NFL. The range for the players that returned to play was from 1 game, meaning some guy only played 1 game after this injury before never playing again, to 142 games. Considering the average is 45.4 games, if you multiply that by 19 thats 862.6 games between the 19 players that returned to play. Since I don't know the other numbers and 1 and 142 both seem like extremes, I'll take out both outliers making it 719.6 games between 17 players, which averages out to 42.3 games per player which is even less than the 45.4 meaning that 142 skewed the average. Could it possibly mean that the player just sucked and only lasted another 3 years which is about the average NFL career? Possibly, but I believe the assumption that the injury affected these players immensely and helped end their careers sooner considering it's such a huge injury. The link also doesn't talk about which positions these players played and while a healthy knee is needed by all positions, running backs put the most stress on their knees compared to other positions.

The link also talks about how the players that returned to play had an average of being picked earlier, but that could just mean teams were more willing to wait on players that they invested a higher pick in compared to 7th round picks or UDFAs.

Yes, I know a lot of what I've said are assumptions, but messing up a joint that badly is no small injury, so I'm not sure why anyone could believe that someone can recover from such an injury completely in one year without any long term effects when your job is to put a ridiculous amounts of stress on the joint.

 

[mr roboto]

Variance from day to day, accounting for rest, nutrition, prior fatigue from workouts etc is very large when it comes to explosive athletic movements.

 

[Scooby1974]

I remember a player who was considered too slow, 4.55 on his pro day, and too small, 5'8" 190 lbs, despite a successfull college career. Consequently he fell in the draft. What was his name? Oh yeah, Emmitt Smith.

Just got off the phone with Ryan William's knee. It was wondering if Larry Allen, Moose, Aikmen, Haley, Deion and the boys might turn back time and and and surround his average speed and above average vision to help carry him for a decade or so.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I came into this thread expecting in-depth discussion of whether Williams has the size to be a 3-down back. Bizarre - that discussion is almost nowhere to be found. Great job staying focused Shark Pool!

Btw - he clearly has the size to be an every down back.

 

[texasbirdfan]

I came into this thread expecting in-depth discussion of whether Williams has the size to be a 3-down back. Bizarre - that discussion is almost nowhere to be found. Great job staying focused Shark Pool!Btw - he clearly has the size to be an every down back.

We discussed the weight, height, arm length, leg girth, etc. of ANY NFL RB about 10 years ago and solved that puzzle pretty much as do the physicals on the first day of the Combine let a team know if a guy can begin to qualify to be a 3 down back. Even you knew the answer as you so stated.So the purpose of this thread was to discuss what variables makes Ryan Williams or doesn't make him successful. IMO items like knee caps, speed, and team opportunity are part of the equation.There is just so much you can say about size- you have to elaborate on all the particulars.

 

[Clifford]

How will Williams speedy 4.61 translate along with the knee injury? Size wise he could fit with the guys mentioned...but Brandon Jacobs is faster than the kid, pre-injury.

I was kinda shocked at how slow this kid is. Chances that he'll come back faster are nil, so an undersized back that runs a relatively slow 40 time on a pass-first team is your ceiling here. Floor is never becomes anything more than COP. Floor is looking more likely at this point.