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Doing your own research (4 Viewers)

Thanks. But I'd hope we could have a real discussion with real people here as I think the value of the forum is hearing what others think.

If we wanted to hear what AI thinks, we could just ask AI.
What is your thought, Joe, on why we have gone off the rails in the last 50+ years as far as obesity? You are an active participant in this thread so I assume you have some thoughts, would love to hear them.

Thanks @Joe Schmo

I see lots of the same stuff and things like AI suggests but I truly don't know the answers.

The thing I keep coming back to is the fact not that long ago (50 or so years) we seemed to be in a much better place. And people still lived in cities and suburbs and in rural areas.

Sure, life was different in many ways, but it's not like we're comparing 2025 to 1825.

My GB @tommyGunZ mentioned more food insecurity in the 60's. I'd never thought of that and maybe that has a factor. I don't know.

Gianmarco wrote earlier:
"The fact that only 15% of the population (number just a guesstimate, not for accuracy), for example, can succeed in losing weight with diet and exercise is irrelevant to whether or not you can. If you're able to, either through discipline or help from family or whatever, achieve your health goals without medicine, then the idea that others need it is likely going to be foreign to you. In that aspect, I would simply say "consider yourselves lucky".

"Your doctor, however, is coming at it knowing that 85% of his/her patients will need pharmacologic help to achieve those goals. It's not to say that diet and exercise alone won't be recommended and not to say that they shouldn't be willing to work with a patient that wants to avoid medicine, but at the end of the day, that's going to help most of their patients and where they will likely end up. And, it's very difficult to determine based on a visit where each person will fall. So yeah, trial it for 3 months and let's recheck is why that's recommended."

I'm interested in why today only the guesstimated 15% of people should consider themselves lucky, when 50 years ago, it seems like that number of "lucky" people was massively bigger. That just seems odd. And something worth trying to figure out how we get back to there.

Just as importantly as the why though is the how we get back to a level of health and obesity that we had in previous years. Short of moving to Japan.

In discussing the 15% lucky group, I think you may be conflating the ability to lose weight through diet and exercise with the percentage of population that were never obese to begin with. 50 years ago, the percentage of people who were obese but ultimately able to lose the weight through personal decisions re diet and exercise may very well have been at or below 15%. I have no idea.
 
Thanks. But I'd hope we could have a real discussion with real people here as I think the value of the forum is hearing what others think.

If we wanted to hear what AI thinks, we could just ask AI.
What is your thought, Joe, on why we have gone off the rails in the last 50+ years as far as obesity? You are an active participant in this thread so I assume you have some thoughts, would love to hear them.

Thanks @Joe Schmo

I see lots of the same stuff and things like AI suggests but I truly don't know the answers.

The thing I keep coming back to is the fact not that long ago (50 or so years) we seemed to be in a much better place. And people still lived in cities and suburbs and in rural areas.

Sure, life was different in many ways, but it's not like we're comparing 2025 to 1825.

My GB @tommyGunZ mentioned more food insecurity in the 60's. I'd never thought of that and maybe that has a factor. I don't know.

Gianmarco wrote earlier:
"The fact that only 15% of the population (number just a guesstimate, not for accuracy), for example, can succeed in losing weight with diet and exercise is irrelevant to whether or not you can. If you're able to, either through discipline or help from family or whatever, achieve your health goals without medicine, then the idea that others need it is likely going to be foreign to you. In that aspect, I would simply say "consider yourselves lucky".

"Your doctor, however, is coming at it knowing that 85% of his/her patients will need pharmacologic help to achieve those goals. It's not to say that diet and exercise alone won't be recommended and not to say that they shouldn't be willing to work with a patient that wants to avoid medicine, but at the end of the day, that's going to help most of their patients and where they will likely end up. And, it's very difficult to determine based on a visit where each person will fall. So yeah, trial it for 3 months and let's recheck is why that's recommended."

I'm interested in why today only the guesstimated 15% of people should consider themselves lucky, when 50 years ago, it seems like that number of "lucky" people was massively bigger. That just seems odd. And something worth trying to figure out how we get back to there.

Just as importantly as the why though is the how we get back to a level of health and obesity that we had in previous years. Short of moving to Japan.

In discussing the 15% lucky group, I think you may be conflating the ability to lose weight through diet and exercise with the percentage of population that were never obese to begin with. 50 years ago, the percentage of people who were obese but ultimately able to lose the weight through personal decisions re diet and exercise may very well have been at or below 15%. I have no idea.

Could well be. I also have no idea.
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Wow. Yes, this does explain a lot.
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
 
But to be sure, I think most people agree we're consuming much more sugar today. As we look at the obesity rates skyrocketing, I'm interested in how much more.
 
Has anyone graphed obesity rates since 1950 against annual sugar consumption per person up till today?

That seems like it would be useful.
 
Has anyone graphed obesity rates since 1950 against annual sugar consumption per person up till today?

That seems like it would be useful.
It's pretty stark:


"Total sugar consumption per decade in g/day compared to obesity prevalence per decade in percent for adults (top panel) and children (bottom panel). The rate of change per year between the decades for both sugar consumption and adult obesity were found by calculating the differences in the average values between each of the decades and dividing it by the number of years elapsed, as indicated by the slope lines and values between the decades.

There are two main takeaways from the described data that suggest a strong link between sugar consumption and the obesity epidemic in the United States. First, sugar consumption’s drastic rise from the 1970’s to the 1990’s is followed by the subsequent exponential growth in obesity prevalence from the late 1970’s to the 2000’s, and, even more indicative of this association, the drop in sugar consumption from the 1990’s to 2010’s preceding a slowing of the annual increase in obesity prevalence in the 2000’s. Second, this general trend observed shows that over time, obesity prevalence may change as a response to changes in sugar consumption per capita, indicating a positive correlation between sugar consumption and obesity prevalence qualitatively observed"

The Study
 
Has anyone graphed obesity rates since 1950 against annual sugar consumption per person up till today?

That seems like it would be useful.
It's pretty stark:


"Total sugar consumption per decade in g/day compared to obesity prevalence per decade in percent for adults (top panel) and children (bottom panel). The rate of change per year between the decades for both sugar consumption and adult obesity were found by calculating the differences in the average values between each of the decades and dividing it by the number of years elapsed, as indicated by the slope lines and values between the decades.

There are two main takeaways from the described data that suggest a strong link between sugar consumption and the obesity epidemic in the United States. First, sugar consumption’s drastic rise from the 1970’s to the 1990’s is followed by the subsequent exponential growth in obesity prevalence from the late 1970’s to the 2000’s, and, even more indicative of this association, the drop in sugar consumption from the 1990’s to 2010’s preceding a slowing of the annual increase in obesity prevalence in the 2000’s. Second, this general trend observed shows that over time, obesity prevalence may change as a response to changes in sugar consumption per capita, indicating a positive correlation between sugar consumption and obesity prevalence qualitatively observed"

The Study

Thank you. That seems super useful.
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
 
  • Motivation for doing it?
  • Economics of a small farm?
  • What types of food are most. needed? Most profitable? Relatively easiest?
  • What you would do differently if you were to do it again?
  • Things to NOT do

In the 00s prior to selling I posted about my greenhouses quite a bit. It's a humble brag and back then I was accused of bs-ing, but I sort of kind of was one of the first to make aeroponics affordable for commercial applications. Nasa tech was deemed far too expensive, but I experimented with workarounds that surprisingly worked. Think epdm lined raceways like those used in fish farming but with aeroponic misting manifolds running through them.

  • Motivation for doing it?
Lifelong dream. Rooted a Wandering Jew the first day of kindergarten and was hooked. College gf was a botany major and we made big plans. I had to do it without her 10 years later. My mom often said I don't play well with others. I play well with plants. I'm a personality that needed to be self-employed. Bosses are dumb.

  • Economics of a small farm?
Obviously variable to the nth degree. Overall nothing spectacular and potentially horrible, but rewarding if you love it. I do love it, but another motivation was tax breaks investing in something I loved. I was making good money in the mortgage business. Buying in SoCal in 92 and selling in 06 is where I made my hay. RE equity. I'm the smallest of sample sizes and every piece of potentially productive land needs research. A big plus for you and Longtime is having both land and other income.

  • What types of food are most. needed? Most profitable? Relatively easiest?
Greens are easy, always in demand, and fast growing. Microgreens were the ticket a decade ago, but big ag seems to have killed a cool little niche. I'm experimenting with indoor crocus sativus. No that isn't weed. It's where we get saffron - the most profitable crop. Speaking of weed, easy and profitable. :lol:

  • What you would do differently if you were to do it again?
I bought 20 acres with a humble 2 bedroom home and 5 acres put to avocados. I planted another 11 acres to avos and built my dream greenhouses. Those young avos were expensive and slow to produce. There's 50 things I could have done that were smarter. I should have put in 11 acres of greenhouses and beat the crowd to microgreens. Maybe went with prickly pear or dragonfruit (drought tolerance in socal). I should have inoculated the first five acres of avos with high value mushroom spores (intercropping is smart)... and on and on.

  • Things to NOT do
Start big. Overestimate your ag zone's climate. Underestimate pest loads, labor and equipment.

There you go @Chaos34, two votes for a new thread on the topic. ;)

I have a little quirk here. I've never started a thread. I like saying that. Sorry for continuing the hijack. It's been almost 20 years since I got out, and while I keep up with fancy new tech for indoor growing, I feel way out of the loop for commercial ideas. Things have changed a lot and AI is coming for this industry too.
 
  • Motivation for doing it?
  • Economics of a small farm?
  • What types of food are most. needed? Most profitable? Relatively easiest?
  • What you would do differently if you were to do it again?
  • Things to NOT do

In the 00s prior to selling I posted about my greenhouses quite a bit. It's a humble brag and back then I was accused of bs-ing, but I sort of kind of was one of the first to make aeroponics affordable for commercial applications. Nasa tech was deemed far too expensive, but I experimented with workarounds that surprisingly worked. Think epdm lined raceways like those used in fish farming but with aeroponic misting manifolds running through them.

  • Motivation for doing it?
Lifelong dream. Rooted a Wandering Jew the first day of kindergarten and was hooked. College gf was a botany major and we made big plans. I had to do it without her 10 years later. My mom often said I don't play well with others. I play well with plants. I'm a personality that needed to be self-employed. Bosses are dumb.

  • Economics of a small farm?
Obviously variable to the nth degree. Overall nothing spectacular and potentially horrible, but rewarding if you love it. I do love it, but another motivation was tax breaks investing in something I loved. I was making good money in the mortgage business. Buying in SoCal in 92 and selling in 06 is where I made my hay. RE equity. I'm the smallest of sample sizes and every piece of potentially productive land needs research. A big plus for you and Longtime is having both land and other income.

  • What types of food are most. needed? Most profitable? Relatively easiest?
Greens are easy, always in demand, and fast growing. Microgreens were the ticket a decade ago, but big ag seems to have killed a cool little niche. I'm experimenting with indoor crocus sativus. No that isn't weed. It's where we get saffron - the most profitable crop. Speaking of weed, easy and profitable. :lol:

  • What you would do differently if you were to do it again?
I bought 20 acres with a humble 2 bedroom home and 5 acres put to avocados. I planted another 11 acres to avos and built my dream greenhouses. Those young avos were expensive and slow to produce. There's 50 things I could have done that were smarter. I should have put in 11 acres of greenhouses and beat the crowd to microgreens. Maybe went with prickly pear or dragonfruit (drought tolerance in socal). I should have inoculated the first five acres of avos with high value mushroom spores (intercropping is smart)... and on and on.

  • Things to NOT do
Start big. Overestimate your ag zone's climate. Underestimate pest loads, labor and equipment.

There you go @Chaos34, two votes for a new thread on the topic. ;)

I have a little quirk here. I've never started a thread. I like saying that. Sorry for continuing the hijack. It's been almost 20 years since I got out, and while I keep up with fancy new tech for indoor growing, I feel way out of the loop for commercial ideas. Things have changed a lot and AI is coming for this industry too.

Thank you! Would you be ok if I copied your post over to a new thread? I think this can be an interesting topic and it deserves it's own thread.
 
@Joe Bryant

Since you asked about Japan, this study reaches some pretty interesting conclusions. Limited to sugar in beverages and childhood obesity rates.

Abstract:

Japanese toddler and preschool children, ages 1.5–5 years, have lower rates of obesity, ≥95 th percentile body mass index, compared with North American ones. We examined parental reported beverage consumption patterns in 3 Japanese based mother-child cohorts from three different regions of Japan compared with data from cross-sectional and longitudinal studies from North America. Specifically, we used data from the Hamamatsu Birth Cohort for Mothers and Children (HBC Study) in Hamamatsu (Shizuoka Prefecture), the Seiiku Boshi Birth Cohort from Setagaya, Tokyo and the TMM BirThree Cohort Study from Miyagi. We additionally compared cross-sectional data from preschoolers from 24 prefectures in Japan as previously reported from a national study. While Japanese children had lower but comparable rates to North American children for introduction of sugar-sweetened beverages and 100% fruit juices, Japanese children consumed these beverages daily at a much lower level than North American children. Additionally, North American children may get more added sugars from soda and fruit juices as a relative percentage of total added sugar. By contrast, Japanese children consume more sweetened dairy drinks as a relative percentage of total added sugar. Sweetened dairy drinks may have the added benefits of including fats, calcium and probiotics which may be associated with lower risk for obesity compared with consumption of other types of sugar sweetened beverages.
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articl...stimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.
 
For specific reasons, the food seems to be an obvious one. As @DA RAIDERS said, things like cereal have changed. But on an anecdotal level, I'm not sure how much as I remember as a kid eating pretty terribly. Frosted Flakes cereal. And sugary sodas. I can remember eating Pixy Stix candy that was basically straight sugar with some flavor. My daugher would kill me if I let my grandchildren near that today.

In lots of ways, it seems like, at least in my personal experience, things like avoiding crazy candy and such is much more popular. When I was young, the kid who wasn't allowed sugar everything was the odd kid. Today, it feels the opposite.

That's part of what seems so odd.
Ultra processed food is engineered to be addictive

We have more of it in our diet than any other major country

That’s what is different today vs 1970
 
@Joe Bryant

Since you asked about Japan, this study reaches some pretty interesting conclusions. Limited to sugar in beverages and childhood obesity rates.

Abstract:

Japanese toddler and preschool children, ages 1.5–5 years, have lower rates of obesity, ≥95 th percentile body mass index, compared with North American ones. We examined parental reported beverage consumption patterns in 3 Japanese based mother-child cohorts from three different regions of Japan compared with data from cross-sectional and longitudinal studies from North America. Specifically, we used data from the Hamamatsu Birth Cohort for Mothers and Children (HBC Study) in Hamamatsu (Shizuoka Prefecture), the Seiiku Boshi Birth Cohort from Setagaya, Tokyo and the TMM BirThree Cohort Study from Miyagi. We additionally compared cross-sectional data from preschoolers from 24 prefectures in Japan as previously reported from a national study. While Japanese children had lower but comparable rates to North American children for introduction of sugar-sweetened beverages and 100% fruit juices, Japanese children consumed these beverages daily at a much lower level than North American children. Additionally, North American children may get more added sugars from soda and fruit juices as a relative percentage of total added sugar. By contrast, Japanese children consume more sweetened dairy drinks as a relative percentage of total added sugar. Sweetened dairy drinks may have the added benefits of including fats, calcium and probiotics which may be associated with lower risk for obesity compared with consumption of other types of sugar sweetened beverages.

Thank you. I'm just a guy who writes about Fantasy Football but I'm a believer in if you want to get better at something, look to someone or somewhere else that's doing much better and dive into understanding what they're doing. Of course, it's easier to do that with small groups of people than it is a country. But still seems worthwhile.
 
For specific reasons, the food seems to be an obvious one. As @DA RAIDERS said, things like cereal have changed. But on an anecdotal level, I'm not sure how much as I remember as a kid eating pretty terribly. Frosted Flakes cereal. And sugary sodas. I can remember eating Pixy Stix candy that was basically straight sugar with some flavor. My daugher would kill me if I let my grandchildren near that today.

In lots of ways, it seems like, at least in my personal experience, things like avoiding crazy candy and such is much more popular. When I was young, the kid who wasn't allowed sugar everything was the odd kid. Today, it feels the opposite.

That's part of what seems so odd.
Ultra processed food is engineered to be addictive

We have more of it in our diet than any other major country

That’s what is different today vs 1970

I've read about Philip Morris getting into the food industry and bringing their science people over to engineer food. Stuff like this.


Many of today’s unhealthy foods were brought to you by Big Tobacco
 
Thank you! Would you be ok if I copied your post over to a new thread? I think this can be an interesting topic and it deserves it's own thread.

Sure, but just as I avoid RE questions here, I usually avoid this topic too. Won't even open the gardening thread. If I remember correctly, there's another grower or two here. I'm actively restraining myself from doing the tl/dr thing here, and I struggle with short replies too.
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
 

I'm interested in why today only the guesstimated 15% of people should consider themselves lucky, when 50 years ago, it seems like that number of "lucky" people was massively bigger. That just seems odd. And something worth trying to figure out how we get back to there.

Just as importantly as the why though is the how we get back to a level of health and obesity that we had in previous years. Short of moving to Japan.
60ish years ago, we lived in an environment less conducive to weight gain. Three quarters of the population wasn’t already overweight or obese, nor were 20% of their kids.

From a prevention standpoint, it’s very difficult to put the cultural and socioeconomic toothpaste back in the tube. Now that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try, as the best way to combat obesity is to avoid gaining weight in the first place.

None of that makes overcoming the physiologic and psychologic adaptations to obesity any easier. Our minds and bodies evolved to curtail massive weight loss, even when obese. So it’s really hard to lose weight and keep it off. For behavioral modification alone, only ~5% succeed long term. Does that mean the other 95% lack the will?

People weren’t any luckier sixty years ago, there were just a lot fewer obese people struggling. Or do you believe lifestyle modifications for weight loss were more successful back then?
 
@Joe Bryant

Since you asked about Japan, this study reaches some pretty interesting conclusions. Limited to sugar in beverages and childhood obesity rates.

Abstract:

Japanese toddler and preschool children, ages 1.5–5 years, have lower rates of obesity, ≥95 th percentile body mass index, compared with North American ones. We examined parental reported beverage consumption patterns in 3 Japanese based mother-child cohorts from three different regions of Japan compared with data from cross-sectional and longitudinal studies from North America. Specifically, we used data from the Hamamatsu Birth Cohort for Mothers and Children (HBC Study) in Hamamatsu (Shizuoka Prefecture), the Seiiku Boshi Birth Cohort from Setagaya, Tokyo and the TMM BirThree Cohort Study from Miyagi. We additionally compared cross-sectional data from preschoolers from 24 prefectures in Japan as previously reported from a national study. While Japanese children had lower but comparable rates to North American children for introduction of sugar-sweetened beverages and 100% fruit juices, Japanese children consumed these beverages daily at a much lower level than North American children. Additionally, North American children may get more added sugars from soda and fruit juices as a relative percentage of total added sugar. By contrast, Japanese children consume more sweetened dairy drinks as a relative percentage of total added sugar. Sweetened dairy drinks may have the added benefits of including fats, calcium and probiotics which may be associated with lower risk for obesity compared with consumption of other types of sugar sweetened beverages.
Yep. Most sugar consumption is through sweetened beverages. They all should be avoided.

And although I love Japan, things are changing, and even their obesity rates are on the rise.
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.
So a personal anecdote?
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
Did you not read the link I provided?
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.
So a personal anecdote?
you should read the link I provided too
 
As a country, it would be great to have nothing but healthy foods available and infrastructure that encourages more movement and walking. But the reality is that's just not the case and essentially unattainable. Too much money to be had otherwise and far too difficult to reverse. Societies like Japan or Europe have been established with healthier lifestyles for too long. Small markets with local food, walkable/bikable cities, etc.

We can't just achieve that at the scale needed here without investing major money and lots of time. So the alternative is finding other ways to help the most people.

Why do you think we seemed to be able to achieve a relatively normal obesity rate for a couple hundred years in this country but for some reason, we've gone off the rails in my lifetime?

That's a relatively recent change in our country's history.

I hear people talk about how we're unable to invest the time and money to change things as if our country has always had astronomic obesity rates. It hasn't always been this way.
I would think the answer is pretty obvious to many. They've been discussed in this thread and elsewhere. There are quite a few reasons. I'll let ChatGPT answer you so I don't need to type it out. And, if you really didn't already know this answer, after reading it, I'm sure it's easy to understand why it would be so difficult to reverse across the country.

Plugging your question in, here you go:




You’re touching on one of the most profound public health shifts of the past century. The U.S. maintained relatively stable (and low) obesity rates for a long time—then, starting in the 1970s–1980s, the rates skyrocketed. Several interlocking factors are believed to explain this sudden shift:




1. The Industrialization of Food


  • Ultra-processed foods: Over the last 50 years, cheap, calorie-dense, ultra-processed foods (high in sugar, refined grains, and industrial oils) have become the foundation of the American diet.
  • High-fructose corn syrup (HFCS): Its widespread adoption in the late 1970s (due to subsidies for corn) made sugary drinks and snacks cheap and ubiquitous.
  • Portion sizes exploded: Restaurant and fast-food portions doubled or tripled compared to the 1950s.



2. The "Snack Culture" and Constant Availability of Food


  • Historically, people ate three structured meals per day. By the late 20th century, snacking became normalized.
  • Vending machines, convenience stores, and fast food chains mean food is never more than a few steps away.
  • Americans consume hundreds of extra calories per day compared to 50 years ago, largely through snacks and sugary drinks.



3. Changes in Physical Activity


  • Automation and technology: Work became less physically demanding, and daily movement (walking, manual labor) decreased dramatically.
  • Sedentary leisure: TV, video games, and now smartphones/streaming have replaced active hobbies for many.
  • Cars dominate transportation—most Americans walk less than 1 mile per day, which was unheard of a century ago.



4. Food Marketing and Psychological Factors


  • The food industry spends tens of billions annually marketing processed foods—especially to children.
  • Hyper-palatable foods (engineered combinations of fat, sugar, and salt) exploit the brain's reward system, making overeating almost inevitable.
  • In the 1980s and 90s, "low-fat" marketing ironically led to increased sugar and refined carb intake.



5. Socioeconomic and Environmental Factors


  • Cheap calories vs. expensive nutrition: Heavily processed, calorie-dense foods are often cheaper and more accessible than fresh produce or quality proteins.
  • Food deserts: Many communities lack affordable access to fresh, healthy food.
  • Stress and sleep: Rising stress levels, economic insecurity, and chronic sleep deprivation affect appetite hormones (ghrelin/leptin), promoting weight gain.



6. Shifting Cultural Norms


  • Body size normalization: As obesity rates climbed, larger body sizes became normalized, making weight gain less noticeable over generations.
  • Meal culture erosion: Family dinners and home-cooked meals have declined, replaced by on-the-go eating.



Why did this all happen so suddenly?


Because in the post-WWII era, technology, agriculture, and marketing advanced far faster than human biology could adapt.
Our bodies are evolutionarily designed for food scarcity, but we now live in an environment of constant abundance—especially of calorie-rich, nutrient-poor foods. This mismatch between biology and environment became extreme in your lifetime.




Would you like me to share a timeline of key events (from the 1950s–2000s) that "broke" the American diet—like the introduction of TV dinners, fast food boom, and soda sizes doubling?

Thanks. But I'd hope we could have a real discussion with real people here as I think the value of the forum is hearing what others think.

If we wanted to hear what AI thinks, we could just ask AI.
I’d imagine our generation operates under a constant state of stress more so than previous generations. Sure we didn’t have WW2 to worry about, I’m talking about a continuous state of lesser stress that comes from technology. We are “always on call” with work these days. Emails, cell phones, laptops. We have the ability to argue with hundreds, thousands, millions of people 24-7. And as easy as it is to say “just disconnect then”, that’s not an easy thing to do is it? Stress takes a toll on how our body processes what we eat, and it makes making bad food decisions a lot easier. A double whammy.
Upon further reflection I am probably discounting the real struggles of prior generations. But I do recall that when my Dad came home from work, he was home. I do think we are “always on” more than ever, and it’s not good for us.
 
@Joe Bryant

Since you asked about Japan, this study reaches some pretty interesting conclusions. Limited to sugar in beverages and childhood obesity rates.

Abstract:

Japanese toddler and preschool children, ages 1.5–5 years, have lower rates of obesity, ≥95 th percentile body mass index, compared with North American ones. We examined parental reported beverage consumption patterns in 3 Japanese based mother-child cohorts from three different regions of Japan compared with data from cross-sectional and longitudinal studies from North America. Specifically, we used data from the Hamamatsu Birth Cohort for Mothers and Children (HBC Study) in Hamamatsu (Shizuoka Prefecture), the Seiiku Boshi Birth Cohort from Setagaya, Tokyo and the TMM BirThree Cohort Study from Miyagi. We additionally compared cross-sectional data from preschoolers from 24 prefectures in Japan as previously reported from a national study. While Japanese children had lower but comparable rates to North American children for introduction of sugar-sweetened beverages and 100% fruit juices, Japanese children consumed these beverages daily at a much lower level than North American children. Additionally, North American children may get more added sugars from soda and fruit juices as a relative percentage of total added sugar. By contrast, Japanese children consume more sweetened dairy drinks as a relative percentage of total added sugar. Sweetened dairy drinks may have the added benefits of including fats, calcium and probiotics which may be associated with lower risk for obesity compared with consumption of other types of sugar sweetened beverages.
Yep. Most sugar consumption is through sweetened beverages. They all should be avoided.

And although I love Japan, things are changing, and even their obesity rates are on the rise.
In terms of product, we were consuming approx 10G of sugary beverages a year, per person in 1950 and almost 50G per person close to the year 2000.

ETA: G=Gallons above.
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
Did you not read the link I provided?

Not yet. Did it confirm your statement that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s?

I hope that's accurate as it would help explain why obesity rates have changed so much.
 
Pretty awesome...

1) Provides a statistic.
2) "Can you please provide a link?"
3) Provides a link to the statistic
4) "Is your statement accurate?"
5) "Did you read the link you specifically asked for?"
6) "Nope"

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Apologies if I missed it. Interesting with the 🤣`. Was busy with some other things and catching up here.
 
For specific reasons, the food seems to be an obvious one. As @DA RAIDERS said, things like cereal have changed. But on an anecdotal level, I'm not sure how much as I remember as a kid eating pretty terribly. Frosted Flakes cereal. And sugary sodas. I can remember eating Pixy Stix candy that was basically straight sugar with some flavor. My daugher would kill me if I let my grandchildren near that today.

In lots of ways, it seems like, at least in my personal experience, things like avoiding crazy candy and such is much more popular. When I was young, the kid who wasn't allowed sugar everything was the odd kid. Today, it feels the opposite.

That's part of what seems so odd.
Ultra processed food is engineered to be addictive

We have more of it in our diet than any other major country

That’s what is different today vs 1970

I've read about Philip Morris getting into the food industry and bringing their science people over to engineer food. Stuff like this.


Many of today’s unhealthy foods were brought to you by Big Tobacco
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
Did you not read the link I provided?

It's a long study at the link. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/

Could you please quote the part about where the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s? Thank you.
I'm not sure why there's such a fascination with this one particular fact that you're looking to have verified, but here's a link that addresses it.

He has it wrong as the 4 pounds per day was in 1750, not 1950.

But the bigger point still remains that sugar consumption has drastically increased from the 1960s to today which has coincided with the obesity epidemic. The specific number is far less relevant than the percentage increase, which is significant.

And the reason for my comment above..... You asked for a link, weren't too busy to ask if it was in the link after he provided it, but yet too busy to actually look a little.


ETA -- Relevant section:

Change in beverage intake
Sugar intake has increased considerably in the past 40 y (6). The soft drinks that were developed more than a century ago now provide a significant source of energy and added sugars. Sugar intake has shown a remarkable increase since the time of the American Revolution, and sugar-sweetened beverages have been an outlet for this sugar in the 20th century. In 1750, the average American consumed 4 pounds (1.81 kg) of sugar per year. This increased to 20 pounds (9.1 kg) per capita by 1850 and showed a further increase to 120 pounds (54.4 kg) per capita by 1994. By the early 21st century, it exceeded 160 pounds (72.6 kg) per capita. The NHANES found that soft drinks and fruit drinks provided >40% of the “sugars” that are added to the diet (7). Between 1950 and 2000, the consumption of soft drinks had increased from 10 gallons (37.9 L) per person per year to just more than 50 gallons (189.3 L) per person per year (8) (Fig. 1)
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.
So a personal anecdote?
you should read the link I provided too
You should consider I responded to "I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago." just minutes after reading you lecture the rest of us for our anecdotes.
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
Did you not read the link I provided?

It's a long study at the link. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/

Could you please quote the part about where the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s? Thank you.
I'm not sure why there's such a fascination with this one particular fact that you're looking to have verified, but here's a link that addresses it.

He has it wrong as the 4 pounds per day was in 1750, not 1950.

But the bigger point still remains that sugar consumption has drastically increased from the 1960s to today which has coincided with the obesity epidemic. The specific number is far less relevant than the percentage increase, which is significant.

And the reason for my comment above..... You asked for a link, weren't too busy to ask if it was in the link after he provided it, but yet too busy to actually look a little.


ETA -- Relevant section:

Change in beverage intake
Sugar intake has increased considerably in the past 40 y (6). The soft drinks that were developed more than a century ago now provide a significant source of energy and added sugars. Sugar intake has shown a remarkable increase since the time of the American Revolution, and sugar-sweetened beverages have been an outlet for this sugar in the 20th century. In 1750, the average American consumed 4 pounds (1.81 kg) of sugar per year. This increased to 20 pounds (9.1 kg) per capita by 1850 and showed a further increase to 120 pounds (54.4 kg) per capita by 1994. By the early 21st century, it exceeded 160 pounds (72.6 kg) per capita. The NHANES found that soft drinks and fruit drinks provided >40% of the “sugars” that are added to the diet (7). Between 1950 and 2000, the consumption of soft drinks had increased from 10 gallons (37.9 L) per person per year to just more than 50 gallons (189.3 L) per person per year (8) (Fig. 1)
So only off by 200 years?
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
Did you not read the link I provided?

It's a long study at the link. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/

Could you please quote the part about where the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s? Thank you.
I'm not sure why there's such a fascination with this one particular fact that you're looking to have verified, but here's a link that addresses it.

He has it wrong as the 4 pounds per day was in 1750, not 1950.

But the bigger point still remains that sugar consumption has drastically increased from the 1960s to today which has coincided with the obesity epidemic. The specific number is far less relevant than the percentage increase, which is significant.

And the reason for my comment above..... You asked for a link, weren't too busy to ask if it was in the link after he provided it, but yet too busy to actually look a little.


ETA -- Relevant section:

Change in beverage intake
Sugar intake has increased considerably in the past 40 y (6). The soft drinks that were developed more than a century ago now provide a significant source of energy and added sugars. Sugar intake has shown a remarkable increase since the time of the American Revolution, and sugar-sweetened beverages have been an outlet for this sugar in the 20th century. In 1750, the average American consumed 4 pounds (1.81 kg) of sugar per year. This increased to 20 pounds (9.1 kg) per capita by 1850 and showed a further increase to 120 pounds (54.4 kg) per capita by 1994. By the early 21st century, it exceeded 160 pounds (72.6 kg) per capita. The NHANES found that soft drinks and fruit drinks provided >40% of the “sugars” that are added to the diet (7). Between 1950 and 2000, the consumption of soft drinks had increased from 10 gallons (37.9 L) per person per year to just more than 50 gallons (189.3 L) per person per year (8) (Fig. 1)
So only off by 200 years?
Give or take. But the pounds are accurate!
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.
That doesn't appear to be correct, if go back to 1820 looks like about 4 lbs, closer to 80 lbs in the 1950s


 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
Did you not read the link I provided?

It's a long study at the link. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/

Could you please quote the part about where the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s? Thank you.
I'm not sure why there's such a fascination with this one particular fact that you're looking to have verified, but here's a link that addresses it.

He has it wrong as the 4 pounds per day was in 1750, not 1950.

But the bigger point still remains that sugar consumption has drastically increased from the 1960s to today which has coincided with the obesity epidemic. The specific number is far less relevant than the percentage increase, which is significant.

And the reason for my comment above..... You asked for a link, weren't too busy to ask if it was in the link after he provided it, but yet too busy to actually look a little.


ETA -- Relevant section:

Change in beverage intake
Sugar intake has increased considerably in the past 40 y (6). The soft drinks that were developed more than a century ago now provide a significant source of energy and added sugars. Sugar intake has shown a remarkable increase since the time of the American Revolution, and sugar-sweetened beverages have been an outlet for this sugar in the 20th century. In 1750, the average American consumed 4 pounds (1.81 kg) of sugar per year. This increased to 20 pounds (9.1 kg) per capita by 1850 and showed a further increase to 120 pounds (54.4 kg) per capita by 1994. By the early 21st century, it exceeded 160 pounds (72.6 kg) per capita. The NHANES found that soft drinks and fruit drinks provided >40% of the “sugars” that are added to the diet (7). Between 1950 and 2000, the consumption of soft drinks had increased from 10 gallons (37.9 L) per person per year to just more than 50 gallons (189.3 L) per person per year (8) (Fig. 1)
So only off by 200 years?
Give or take. But the pounds are accurate!
And fortunately the broader point holds. Sugar consumption up massively for decade after decade after decade.
 
No matter the tangent we’re on, these last few pages nicely illustrate the problems with DIY “research”: bias, unreliable sources, and inadequate effort reviewing the data, assuming one has the ability to understand it at all. On top of that, most health issues are multifactorial, such that they rarely distill to simple, definitive explanations/interventions.

Now imagine having scientific background, up to date clinical knowledge, and limited time. How would you prioritize entertaining these discussions?
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
Did you not read the link I provided?

It's a long study at the link. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/

Could you please quote the part about where the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s? Thank you.
I'm not sure why there's such a fascination with this one particular fact that you're looking to have verified, but here's a link that addresses it.

He has it wrong as the 4 pounds per day was in 1750, not 1950.

But the bigger point still remains that sugar consumption has drastically increased from the 1960s to today which has coincided with the obesity epidemic. The specific number is far less relevant than the percentage increase, which is significant.

And the reason for my comment above..... You asked for a link, weren't too busy to ask if it was in the link after he provided it, but yet too busy to actually look a little.


ETA -- Relevant section:

Change in beverage intake
Sugar intake has increased considerably in the past 40 y (6). The soft drinks that were developed more than a century ago now provide a significant source of energy and added sugars. Sugar intake has shown a remarkable increase since the time of the American Revolution, and sugar-sweetened beverages have been an outlet for this sugar in the 20th century. In 1750, the average American consumed 4 pounds (1.81 kg) of sugar per year. This increased to 20 pounds (9.1 kg) per capita by 1850 and showed a further increase to 120 pounds (54.4 kg) per capita by 1994. By the early 21st century, it exceeded 160 pounds (72.6 kg) per capita. The NHANES found that soft drinks and fruit drinks provided >40% of the “sugars” that are added to the diet (7). Between 1950 and 2000, the consumption of soft drinks had increased from 10 gallons (37.9 L) per person per year to just more than 50 gallons (189.3 L) per person per year (8) (Fig. 1)
Simple enough. This is about gotcha over all else. I apologize for the timeframe in the poundage error. The link I provided (that no one seemed to read) even had it correct and I still botched it. I lumped it in with the gallon stat which I posted above and you confirmed here as being part of the same timeframe (as did my link). Take away? The problem started earlier than I remembered. This is just on ONE source of sugar. We haven't even talked about the foods we eat that have sugar in them.
 
Last edited:
No matter the tangent we’re on, these last few pages nicely illustrate the problems with DIY “research”: bias, unreliable sources, and inadequate effort reviewing the data, assuming one has the ability to understand it at all. On top of that, most health issues are multifactorial, such that they rarely distill to simple, definitive explanations/interventions.

Now imagine having scientific background, up to date clinical knowledge, and limited time. How would you prioritize entertaining these discussions?
Who decides what is a reliable source? Are you claiming there is no bias on the other side of the table such as which drugs get approved or in the case of the last two pages what kind of junk is allowed to be added to food and sold in the US?
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
Did you not read the link I provided?

It's a long study at the link. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/

Could you please quote the part about where the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s? Thank you.
I'm not sure why there's such a fascination with this one particular fact that you're looking to have verified, but here's a link that addresses it.

He has it wrong as the 4 pounds per day was in 1750, not 1950.

But the bigger point still remains that sugar consumption has drastically increased from the 1960s to today which has coincided with the obesity epidemic. The specific number is far less relevant than the percentage increase, which is significant.

And the reason for my comment above..... You asked for a link, weren't too busy to ask if it was in the link after he provided it, but yet too busy to actually look a little.


ETA -- Relevant section:

Change in beverage intake
Sugar intake has increased considerably in the past 40 y (6). The soft drinks that were developed more than a century ago now provide a significant source of energy and added sugars. Sugar intake has shown a remarkable increase since the time of the American Revolution, and sugar-sweetened beverages have been an outlet for this sugar in the 20th century. In 1750, the average American consumed 4 pounds (1.81 kg) of sugar per year. This increased to 20 pounds (9.1 kg) per capita by 1850 and showed a further increase to 120 pounds (54.4 kg) per capita by 1994. By the early 21st century, it exceeded 160 pounds (72.6 kg) per capita. The NHANES found that soft drinks and fruit drinks provided >40% of the “sugars” that are added to the diet (7). Between 1950 and 2000, the consumption of soft drinks had increased from 10 gallons (37.9 L) per person per year to just more than 50 gallons (189.3 L) per person per year (8) (Fig. 1)
Simple enough. This is about gotcha over all else. I apologize for the timeframe in the poundage error. The link I provided (that no one seemed to read) even had it correct and I still botched it. I lumped it in with the gallon stat which I posted above and you confirmed here as being part of the same timeframe (as did my link). Take away? The problem started earlier than I remembered. This is just on ONE source of sugar. We haven't even talked about the foods we eat that have sugar in them.

Sorry but no. Zero about some sort of "gotcha". 100% about getting information correct.
 
No matter the tangent we’re on, these last few pages nicely illustrate the problems with DIY “research”: bias, unreliable sources, and inadequate effort reviewing the data, assuming one has the ability to understand it at all. On top of that, most health issues are multifactorial, such that they rarely distill to simple, definitive explanations/interventions.

:goodposting:


It’s complicated, with a mix of physical, social, economic, and psychological factors plus more all interconnected. That’s a big reason why I think it’s so important to share sources when we’re making factual claims. And when the source is a long study, quoting the relevant part (like @gianmarco did earlier, thank you) helps everyone follow along.

As for the question of why there's so much focus on that particular claim, I think that’s pretty straightforward: When we’re talking about something as important as the obesity crisis, accuracy matters. If someone makes a bold claim stated as fact like "Americans ate 4 pounds of sugar annually in 1950 and now it’s over 100 pounds", that’s going to stick with people. It sounds remarkable and super important.

And to be fair, if that stat were true, it would be a huge deal. It’s the kind of thing that makes you go, “Wow, that explains a lot.” In fact, that’s exactly what one of our best posters said.

I still think the rise in sugar consumption is a big factor. I think we all agree there. But we need to be accurate in how we talk about it.

Because that’s also how misinformation spreads — not out of malice, but because something sounds compelling and nobody checks it to see if it's true.

That’s why I asked about it. This has zero to with "gotcha". Getting these things right matters. Especially on complex, emotionally charged topics like this. I know it wasn't intentional, but that's the exact way disinformation spreads on social media and forums.

Anyway, I’ll bow out of this tangent for today. I've gots lots of Footballguys work piling up. I appreciate the thoughtful discussion from everyone.
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
Did you not read the link I provided?

It's a long study at the link. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/

Could you please quote the part about where the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s? Thank you.
I'm not sure why there's such a fascination with this one particular fact that you're looking to have verified, but here's a link that addresses it.

He has it wrong as the 4 pounds per day was in 1750, not 1950.

But the bigger point still remains that sugar consumption has drastically increased from the 1960s to today which has coincided with the obesity epidemic. The specific number is far less relevant than the percentage increase, which is significant.

And the reason for my comment above..... You asked for a link, weren't too busy to ask if it was in the link after he provided it, but yet too busy to actually look a little.


ETA -- Relevant section:

Change in beverage intake
Sugar intake has increased considerably in the past 40 y (6). The soft drinks that were developed more than a century ago now provide a significant source of energy and added sugars. Sugar intake has shown a remarkable increase since the time of the American Revolution, and sugar-sweetened beverages have been an outlet for this sugar in the 20th century. In 1750, the average American consumed 4 pounds (1.81 kg) of sugar per year. This increased to 20 pounds (9.1 kg) per capita by 1850 and showed a further increase to 120 pounds (54.4 kg) per capita by 1994. By the early 21st century, it exceeded 160 pounds (72.6 kg) per capita. The NHANES found that soft drinks and fruit drinks provided >40% of the “sugars” that are added to the diet (7). Between 1950 and 2000, the consumption of soft drinks had increased from 10 gallons (37.9 L) per person per year to just more than 50 gallons (189.3 L) per person per year (8) (Fig. 1)
Simple enough. This is about gotcha over all else. I apologize for the timeframe in the poundage error. The link I provided (that no one seemed to read) even had it correct and I still botched it. I lumped it in with the gallon stat which I posted above and you confirmed here as being part of the same timeframe (as did my link). Take away? The problem started earlier than I remembered. This is just on ONE source of sugar. We haven't even talked about the foods we eat that have sugar in them.

Sorry but no. Zero about some sort of "gotcha". 100% about getting information correct.
It’s absolutely best to get facts 100% correct. AND at the same time the “error” also didn’t change the takeaway one iota. The main point was still the same.
 
Often times doctors are trying to do what is best, take the below back pain medicine, the rate of prescription of it has doubled in last 10 years as doctors are shifting away from opioids to other solutions. However, just 5 days ago there was a study released that this drug may have long term consequences as well.


Sometimes you can make a decision with all of the information available at the time and that decision turns out not to be the best decision. That does not mean you were wrong when the decision was made.
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
Did you not read the link I provided?

It's a long study at the link. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/

Could you please quote the part about where the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s? Thank you.
I'm not sure why there's such a fascination with this one particular fact that you're looking to have verified, but here's a link that addresses it.

He has it wrong as the 4 pounds per day was in 1750, not 1950.

But the bigger point still remains that sugar consumption has drastically increased from the 1960s to today which has coincided with the obesity epidemic. The specific number is far less relevant than the percentage increase, which is significant.

And the reason for my comment above..... You asked for a link, weren't too busy to ask if it was in the link after he provided it, but yet too busy to actually look a little.


ETA -- Relevant section:

Change in beverage intake
Sugar intake has increased considerably in the past 40 y (6). The soft drinks that were developed more than a century ago now provide a significant source of energy and added sugars. Sugar intake has shown a remarkable increase since the time of the American Revolution, and sugar-sweetened beverages have been an outlet for this sugar in the 20th century. In 1750, the average American consumed 4 pounds (1.81 kg) of sugar per year. This increased to 20 pounds (9.1 kg) per capita by 1850 and showed a further increase to 120 pounds (54.4 kg) per capita by 1994. By the early 21st century, it exceeded 160 pounds (72.6 kg) per capita. The NHANES found that soft drinks and fruit drinks provided >40% of the “sugars” that are added to the diet (7). Between 1950 and 2000, the consumption of soft drinks had increased from 10 gallons (37.9 L) per person per year to just more than 50 gallons (189.3 L) per person per year (8) (Fig. 1)
Simple enough. This is about gotcha over all else. I apologize for the timeframe in the poundage error. The link I provided (that no one seemed to read) even had it correct and I still botched it. I lumped it in with the gallon stat which I posted above and you confirmed here as being part of the same timeframe (as did my link). Take away? The problem started earlier than I remembered. This is just on ONE source of sugar. We haven't even talked about the foods we eat that have sugar in them.

Sorry but no. Zero about some sort of "gotcha". 100% about getting information correct.
Can you explain to me why you think focus on this error has anything to do with the point?
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
Did you not read the link I provided?

It's a long study at the link. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/

Could you please quote the part about where the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s? Thank you.
I'm not sure why there's such a fascination with this one particular fact that you're looking to have verified, but here's a link that addresses it.

He has it wrong as the 4 pounds per day was in 1750, not 1950.

But the bigger point still remains that sugar consumption has drastically increased from the 1960s to today which has coincided with the obesity epidemic. The specific number is far less relevant than the percentage increase, which is significant.

And the reason for my comment above..... You asked for a link, weren't too busy to ask if it was in the link after he provided it, but yet too busy to actually look a little.


ETA -- Relevant section:

Change in beverage intake
Sugar intake has increased considerably in the past 40 y (6). The soft drinks that were developed more than a century ago now provide a significant source of energy and added sugars. Sugar intake has shown a remarkable increase since the time of the American Revolution, and sugar-sweetened beverages have been an outlet for this sugar in the 20th century. In 1750, the average American consumed 4 pounds (1.81 kg) of sugar per year. This increased to 20 pounds (9.1 kg) per capita by 1850 and showed a further increase to 120 pounds (54.4 kg) per capita by 1994. By the early 21st century, it exceeded 160 pounds (72.6 kg) per capita. The NHANES found that soft drinks and fruit drinks provided >40% of the “sugars” that are added to the diet (7). Between 1950 and 2000, the consumption of soft drinks had increased from 10 gallons (37.9 L) per person per year to just more than 50 gallons (189.3 L) per person per year (8) (Fig. 1)
Simple enough. This is about gotcha over all else. I apologize for the timeframe in the poundage error. The link I provided (that no one seemed to read) even had it correct and I still botched it. I lumped it in with the gallon stat which I posted above and you confirmed here as being part of the same timeframe (as did my link). Take away? The problem started earlier than I remembered. This is just on ONE source of sugar. We haven't even talked about the foods we eat that have sugar in them.

Sorry but no. Zero about some sort of "gotcha". 100% about getting information correct.
Can you explain to me why you think focus on this error has anything to do with the point?

One last answer today, and then I have to get to work.

It has something to do with the point because I think, "Sugar consumption has increased 3 or 4 or 5x since 1950 is very different from Sugar consumption has increased 25x since 1950"

If you don't think that difference matters, no worries and we can disagree.

As I said, I know the misinformation was not intentional. But I want us to try and be as accurate as we can when stating things we believe to be facts. Especially on important things.

Thanks for the discussion. I'll maybe be able to get back to this one tomorrow or later this week.
 
This is where anecdotes are unhelpful and derail answering the questions posed. It doesn't really help to know that personal experiences suggest a negativity towards sugar. What does help is understanding that the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s and that skyrocketed to over 100 lbs of sugar a year in the early 2000s. Silver lining is, we are down slightly from that peak. THERE is a major reason we have obesity problems. Where is all that sugar coming from? All those foods in boxes and bags and wrappers.

Thanks. Can you please share your link for "the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s"?

I did a quick search and found:


In 1776—at the time of the American Revolution—Americans consumed about 4 lbs of sugar per person each year. By 1850, this had risen to 20 lbs, and by 1994, to 120 lbs.
I don't have a link. I learned it in college in a nutrition class. Stat always stuck with me from 3ish years ago.

Thanks. It would be good to have a source. The only one I can find is from Instagram. And people on that instagram post are asking for a source.

The nih.gov link above suggests something quite a bit different.

If accurate, we were consuming 120 pounds of sugar a year per person in 1994. But the obesity rates were "just" 22.5% Link

Recently published trend data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys (NHANES) show the percentage of obese persons has increased from 14.5% in the years 1976-1980 to 22.5% in 1988-1994.<a href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192036#REF-JOC91119-3" data-tab-toggle=".tab-nav-references">3</a>
Let the research commence then. Seems to be the desired approach of this thread, so have at it. And it would NEVER occur to me to go to instagram for anything like this.

And I want to be clear again. I said very clearly above that this A factor, not THE factor before people start twisting my words like they usually do. FWIW, AI has a fitting summary of our habitual changes to nutrition. It's worth the read. Another large factor is the increase in sedentary lifestyle that has exploded in the last 40 years. Again, AI can provide a pretty decent summary if you choose to research.

Hopefully this is an open source document on PubMed. Good starting point of research if you want to dig in: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/#:~:text=Since these estimations were made,consumption [USDA, 2017].

I caution people using the pages there because the sourcing should matter and people don't dig into those prior to reading the articles/studies/findings. This one seems on the up and up.

Thanks. Can you see if your statement about the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s is accurate?

It would be helpful to know looking at how that has changed over the years.
Did you not read the link I provided?

It's a long study at the link. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6959843/

Could you please quote the part about where the average person consumed about 4 lbs of sugar a year in the 1950s? Thank you.
I'm not sure why there's such a fascination with this one particular fact that you're looking to have verified, but here's a link that addresses it.

He has it wrong as the 4 pounds per day was in 1750, not 1950.

But the bigger point still remains that sugar consumption has drastically increased from the 1960s to today which has coincided with the obesity epidemic. The specific number is far less relevant than the percentage increase, which is significant.

And the reason for my comment above..... You asked for a link, weren't too busy to ask if it was in the link after he provided it, but yet too busy to actually look a little.


ETA -- Relevant section:

Change in beverage intake
Sugar intake has increased considerably in the past 40 y (6). The soft drinks that were developed more than a century ago now provide a significant source of energy and added sugars. Sugar intake has shown a remarkable increase since the time of the American Revolution, and sugar-sweetened beverages have been an outlet for this sugar in the 20th century. In 1750, the average American consumed 4 pounds (1.81 kg) of sugar per year. This increased to 20 pounds (9.1 kg) per capita by 1850 and showed a further increase to 120 pounds (54.4 kg) per capita by 1994. By the early 21st century, it exceeded 160 pounds (72.6 kg) per capita. The NHANES found that soft drinks and fruit drinks provided >40% of the “sugars” that are added to the diet (7). Between 1950 and 2000, the consumption of soft drinks had increased from 10 gallons (37.9 L) per person per year to just more than 50 gallons (189.3 L) per person per year (8) (Fig. 1)
Simple enough. This is about gotcha over all else. I apologize for the timeframe in the poundage error. The link I provided (that no one seemed to read) even had it correct and I still botched it. I lumped it in with the gallon stat which I posted above and you confirmed here as being part of the same timeframe (as did my link). Take away? The problem started earlier than I remembered. This is just on ONE source of sugar. We haven't even talked about the foods we eat that have sugar in them.

Sorry but no. Zero about some sort of "gotcha". 100% about getting information correct.
Can you explain to me why you think focus on this error has anything to do with the point?
My man, you referenced something that you learned in college that was actually eye opening. Why is it unreasonable to say "holy schnikes, can I see the data behind that, its eye opening". You then proceeded to provide data that did not substantiate your original data.

Nobody is trying to come out of this and say sugar is not bad, but jeez you can't just drop misinformation and then be like oh why do you care.
 
It’s absolutely best to get facts 100% correct. AND at the same time the “error” also didn’t change the takeaway one iota. The main point was still the same.

Is this what you see as the main point in this discussion so far?
  1. Why has obesity increased so much since 1960?
  2. Sugar increased 25x since 1950.
  3. Really? Can you provide a link?
  4. Here's a link that shows it's actually 25x since 1750, but we have seen a significant increase since 1960 and that helps explain the obesity increase.
 
I googled 2 countries which I don't think have obesity problems, japan and norway. I used the search string "norway(or japan) sugar consumption per capita by year"

Japan's sugar intake has been on general decline since 1972!

Norway is at lowest sugar intake in last 44 years, or at least they were 5 years ago, which is probably good enough for this discussion.
 

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