Donald Driver Surgery (1 Viewer)

[cr8f]

James Jones is a beastly WR in terms of strength but is slow and has inconsistent hands, the two death knells of NFL WRs. He is a homeless Anquan Bolden at best.

Not that it is the end all be all, but Jones ran a 4.54 forty. Boldin ran a 4.7+. That does not address the concern with his hands, but his speed is not a huge concern...at least not his timed speed. I think he has a few long TDs on his resume too.

He has large and very strong hands. One of the reasons he was drafted is he catches the ball well away from his body. He often plays close to the line of scrimmage in heavy traffic where defenders get their hands on the ball deflecting it and jarring it loose.The person you quoted was wrong about his speed and his hands two death knells of NFL forum posters. These players had worse reception % last year than Jones: There are more reasons for drops than poor speed and bad hands.Terrell Owens BUF 14 5 9 5 2 9 8 109 6.8 6.8 55 829 15.1 5 50.5Steve Smith CAR 15 7 5 7 14 6 dnp 130 8.1 8.7 65 982 15.1 7 50.0Torry Holt JAX 7 7 6 3 8 4 dnp 103 6.4 6.9 51 722 14.2 0 49.5Donnie Avery STL 7 11 8 6 6 4 4 96 6.0 6.0 47 589 12.5 5 49.0Calvin Johnson DET 11 12 11 13 6 12 10 137 8.6 9.8 67 984 14.7 5 48.9Braylon Edwards NYJ 5 4 6 5 7 5 7 94 5.9 5.9 45 680 15.1 4 47.9Eddie Royal DEN 6 0 4 2 4 dnp dnp 79 4.9 5.6 37 345 9.3 0 46.8Roy Williams DAL 4 4 10 8 3 4 1 86 5.4 5.7 38 596 15.7 7 44.2Isaac Bruce SF 4 dnp dnp dnp dnp dnp 0 49 3.1 4.9 21 264 12.6 0 42.9Johnnie Lee Higgins OAK 0 0 7 4 7 4 4 45 2.8 3.0 19 263 13.8 0 42.2Justin Gage TEN dnp dnp dnp 1 3 4 7 67 4.2 5.6 28 383 13.7 3 41.8Bryant Johnson DET 5 3 4 2 8 4 6 88 5.5 5.5 36 426 11.8 3 40.9Louis Murphy OAK 4 7 6 4 7 6 9 94 5.9 5.9 34 521 15.3 4 36.2

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I don't think Jones has bad hands, I think it is a matter of concentration lapses.

 

[shader]

Wow a player said he's going to play until he's 40. I guess we should all take his word for it.

 

[smackdaddies]

I don't think Jones has bad hands, I think it is a matter of concentration lapses.

Exactly - he can make insane great catches, very strong. He can look downfield to soon also...

 

[cr8f]

I don't think Jones has bad hands, I think it is a matter of concentration lapses.

Exactly - he can make insane great catches, very strong. He can look downfield to soon also...

The year before Driver and Rodgers were off and didn't work well together. It could be they need to work together more. He does look downfield too soon too and doesn't look the ball into his hands...you are right.

 

[Andrew Garda]

I don't think Jones has bad hands, I think it is a matter of concentration lapses.

Exactly - he can make insane great catches, very strong. He can look downfield to soon also...

Both good points - I like Jones quite a bit but am not counting Driver down - because every year we do and every year he produces. I think he's still going to play well - you're probably another year or so away from Jones having his start, IMO.

 

[baconisgood]

James Jones is a beastly WR in terms of strength but is slow and has inconsistent hands, the two death knells of NFL WRs. He is a homeless Anquan Bolden at best.

Not that it is the end all be all, but Jones ran a 4.54 forty. Boldin ran a 4.7+. That does not address the concern with his hands, but his speed is not a huge concern...at least not his timed speed. I think he has a few long TDs on his resume too.

He has large and very strong hands. One of the reasons he was drafted is he catches the ball well away from his body. He often plays close to the line of scrimmage in heavy traffic where defenders get their hands on the ball deflecting it and jarring it loose.The person you quoted was wrong about his speed and his hands two death knells of NFL forum posters. These players had worse reception % last year than Jones: There are more reasons for drops than poor speed and bad hands.Terrell Owens BUF 14 5 9 5 2 9 8 109 6.8 6.8 55 829 15.1 5 50.5Steve Smith CAR 15 7 5 7 14 6 dnp 130 8.1 8.7 65 982 15.1 7 50.0Torry Holt JAX 7 7 6 3 8 4 dnp 103 6.4 6.9 51 722 14.2 0 49.5Donnie Avery STL 7 11 8 6 6 4 4 96 6.0 6.0 47 589 12.5 5 49.0Calvin Johnson DET 11 12 11 13 6 12 10 137 8.6 9.8 67 984 14.7 5 48.9Braylon Edwards NYJ 5 4 6 5 7 5 7 94 5.9 5.9 45 680 15.1 4 47.9Eddie Royal DEN 6 0 4 2 4 dnp dnp 79 4.9 5.6 37 345 9.3 0 46.8Roy Williams DAL 4 4 10 8 3 4 1 86 5.4 5.7 38 596 15.7 7 44.2Isaac Bruce SF 4 dnp dnp dnp dnp dnp 0 49 3.1 4.9 21 264 12.6 0 42.9Johnnie Lee Higgins OAK 0 0 7 4 7 4 4 45 2.8 3.0 19 263 13.8 0 42.2Justin Gage TEN dnp dnp dnp 1 3 4 7 67 4.2 5.6 28 383 13.7 3 41.8Bryant Johnson DET 5 3 4 2 8 4 6 88 5.5 5.5 36 426 11.8 3 40.9Louis Murphy OAK 4 7 6 4 7 6 9 94 5.9 5.9 34 521 15.3 4 36.2

TO, Bruce, Holt B Johnson, Higgins- out of the league to almost out of the league. Avery/Calvin- horiible QB play + injuries.Murphy- horrible QB play + rookieS Smith horrible QB play.E Royal????Williams sucks and Gage is an ok, but easily replaced player.Jones had GREAT QB play last year meanwhile only players who are on the verge of being out of the league or had bottom 5 QB play last year are on this list.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

From Rotoworld today...

Donald Driver (knee surgeries) is not participating in practice at Packers minicamp.

While Driver got his dual knee scopes out of the way in January, he's not healthy enough to practice a whopping five months later. We're staying away from him in fantasy drafts. Driver turned 35 earlier this offseason.

Source: Greg Bedard on Twitter

 

[Zoomanji]

Wow a player said he's going to play until he's 40. I guess we should all take his word for it.

it just won't be for the Packers

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

This is from that 6/10 story:

Driver said he had the knees scoped in January, right after the season ended, by team doctor Pat McKenzie. He said he hasn’t been practicing in any of the Organized Team Activities, although he is cleared to go by trainers. He said the Packers told him to take a break during on-field work of the OTAs, but stay around for team morale, so he’s been working out with guys like Charles Woodson.

 

[cr8f]

Wow a player said he's going to play until he's 40. I guess we should all take his word for it.

it just won't be for the Packers

The Vikings better hope so. If he retires now they missed out on McNabb and Campbell. He put a lot of pressure on himself. In 2 leagues I have Driver Taz bid $17 on him so I let him go in RFA in the other I kept him because it was only $4.

 

[Jeremy]

Sounds like Jordy Nelson really flashed in the OTA's and got many looks from Rodgers. Can't put too much stock in OTA's, but keep an eye on him. Minicamp starts Monday.

 

[identikit]

Packers coach Mike McCarthy described backup receivers James Jones and Jordy Nelson's offseasons as "outstanding."

Jones may be most productive on the team," McCarthy added. Jones is the likely successor to 35-year-old Donald Driver, who is coming off dual knee surgeries. Nelson would then slot in as Green Bay's third receiver.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=4242

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Oh snap!

Jordy Nelson has enjoyed a "phenomenal" offseason, according to the Green Bay Press-Gazette.

Beat writer Greg Bedard called Nelson "the new [Donald] Driver" for his impressive practice work earlier in the week. We had been assuming that James Jones would be the primary beneficiary if Driver's play fell off this season, but this is becoming a battle to track in training camp.

Source: Green Bay Press-Gazette

 

[Zoomanji]

Packers coach Mike McCarthy described backup receivers James Jones and Jordy Nelson's offseasons as "outstanding."

"Jones may be most productive on the team," McCarthy added. Jones is the likely successor to 35-year-old Donald Driver, who is coming off dual knee surgeries. Nelson would then slot in as Green Bay's third receiver.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=4242

Oh snap!

Jordy Nelson has enjoyed a "phenomenal" offseason, according to the Green Bay Press-Gazette.

Beat writer Greg Bedard called Nelson "the new [Donald] Driver" for his impressive practice work earlier in the week. We had been assuming that James Jones would be the primary beneficiary if Driver's play fell off this season, but this is becoming a battle to track in training camp.

Source: Green Bay Press-Gazette

Ahh, yes, who to believe? A beat writer or the coach. I personally don't trust either source

 

[Dave Larkin]

This one is so tough to call. In truth, neither will be able to replace the kind of reliability on a weekly basis that Driver gives the Packers. It will more likely be a time share, but if I had to put my money on one of them, it would be Jones.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

From Rotoworld today...

James Jones saw extensive action in the slot "with Donald (Driver's) absence" during offseason workouts, coach Mike McCarthy revealed.

"He's gotten a lot of opportunities," McCarthy said of Jones, "...and I think he's done a very good job." Driver, of course, was out with dual knee surgeries. A flanker in two-receiver sets and a slot man in the three-wide, Jones was practicing at Driver's position. He's consistently beaten out Jordy Nelson over the past two years and will be the favorite to start if Driver has a setback.

 

[Sabertooth]

Hopefully he's not another Bob Ferguson.

 

[the spanker]

Just saw this and added Jones name to top 20 PPR value thread. Kid seems to be the real deal to me. Just needs the opportunity.

 

[David Yudkin]

Driver will have had 8-9 months to recover by opening day from relatively minor surgery. I wouldn't expect him to fall off a cliff or lose his job like some folks are suggesting. There might be a few targets that may go to others . . . but I wouldn't think that Driver falls to WR90 or something that extreme.

 

[Todem]

Driver will have had 8-9 months to recover by opening day from relatively minor surgery. I wouldn't expect him to fall off a cliff or lose his job like some folks are suggesting. There might be a few targets that may go to others . . . but I wouldn't think that Driver falls to WR90 or something that extreme.

Driver is a gamer. He will have another productive season. I think Jones is a great hold for dynasty though. Lord knows how many rosters I have stashed and carried him on for the last 2 years going on 3.

 

[The Kerminator]

Jones has Lofty Goals

 

[cr8f]

Jones has Lofty Goals

He was said to have great off seasons a few times.

Driver will have had 8-9 months to recover by opening day from relatively minor surgery. I wouldn't expect him to fall off a cliff or lose his job like some folks are suggesting. There might be a few targets that may go to others . . . but I wouldn't think that Driver falls to WR90 or something that extreme.

Driver is a gamer. He will have another productive season. I think Jones is a great hold for dynasty though. Lord knows how many rosters I have stashed and carried him on for the last 2 years going on 3.

Nice opinion but no one knows that. When players decline they often do it very rapidly.

 

[jmo87usc]

Not to compare Driver to the GOAT Jerry Rice, but let's be honest, there are some similarities. Both are hard working, keep in great shape, and have played in great passing offenses. Posted below are Rice's numbers starting with the age Driver is now. Not assuming that Driver will follow suit, but I would be happy with 75% of that production from my WR4. Very possible. Driver says he wants to play until he is 40, and I believe him.

Year Age Team Games Rec Yards avg TD

1998* 36 SFO 16 82 1157 14.1 9

1999 37 SFO 16 67 830 12.4 5

2000 38 SFO 16 75 805 10.7 7

2001 39 OAK 16 83 1139 13.7 9

2002* 40 OAK 16 92 1211 13.2 7

2003 41 OAK 16 63 869 13.8 2

 

[Todem]

Jones has Lofty Goals

He was said to have great off seasons a few times.

Driver will have had 8-9 months to recover by opening day from relatively minor surgery. I wouldn't expect him to fall off a cliff or lose his job like some folks are suggesting. There might be a few targets that may go to others . . . but I wouldn't think that Driver falls to WR90 or something that extreme.

Driver is a gamer. He will have another productive season. I think Jones is a great hold for dynasty though. Lord knows how many rosters I have stashed and carried him on for the last 2 years going on 3.

Nice opinion but no one knows that. When players decline they often do it very rapidly.

Driver had his knees cleaned out. He had a very good year last season. I see no reason he will fall off a cliff this year. He should be able to duplicate his 2009 numbers or perform very close to that. He is a vastly underrated player every year.

 

[Tau837]

Not to compare Driver to the GOAT Jerry Rice, but let's be honest, there are some similarities. Both are hard working, keep in great shape, and have played in great passing offenses. Posted below are Rice's numbers starting with the age Driver is now. Not assuming that Driver will follow suit, but I would be happy with 75% of that production from my WR4. Very possible. Driver says he wants to play until he is 40, and I believe him.Year Age Team Games Rec Yards avg TD1998* 36 SFO 16 82 1157 14.1 9 1999 37 SFO 16 67 830 12.4 5 2000 38 SFO 16 75 805 10.7 7 2001 39 OAK 16 83 1139 13.7 9 2002* 40 OAK 16 92 1211 13.2 7 2003 41 OAK 16 63 869 13.8 2

Aside from the fact that Rice is the best of all time and it's unlikely that anyone, not just Driver, will replicate his success beyond age 35, there is another issue with this comparison. Rice was his team's WR1 in 1998, 1999, 2002, and 2003, and he basically shared the role with Tim Brown in 2001. He was only a clear WR2 in one of these seasons (2000), which is when he posted the lowest receiving yardage total in his career other than the year he was injured and his final season at age 42.The point is, it seems unlikely that Driver will get as many targets this year and beyond as Rice did in this sample you posted. So, even if Driver is physically capable of performing as well as Rice, which is certainly not a given, IMO he isn't likely to do so (from a fantasy perspective).

 

[humpback]

Not to compare Driver to the GOAT Jerry Rice, but let's be honest, there are some similarities. Both are hard working, keep in great shape, and have played in great passing offenses. Posted below are Rice's numbers starting with the age Driver is now. Not assuming that Driver will follow suit, but I would be happy with 75% of that production from my WR4. Very possible. Driver says he wants to play until he is 40, and I believe him.Year Age Team Games Rec Yards avg TD1998* 36 SFO 16 82 1157 14.1 9 1999 37 SFO 16 67 830 12.4 5 2000 38 SFO 16 75 805 10.7 7 2001 39 OAK 16 83 1139 13.7 9 2002* 40 OAK 16 92 1211 13.2 7 2003 41 OAK 16 63 869 13.8 2

Since Driver didn't put up 75% of Rice's production during their primes, why would you expect him to do so now? Perhaps a better comparison would be to show how Rice did in these years relative to his peak seasons, and expect a similar decline from Driver's peak numbers. Rice still put up good numbers in those years, but they were a far cry from his best seasons.

 

[smackdaddies]

Jones has Lofty Goals

Can't get a lot of love up for a guy that was the packers 4th or 5th in recpts last year, including being behind Donald Lee.Donald Lee people. Do I really need to say more?

 

[jmo87usc]

Since Driver didn't put up 75% of Rice's production during their primes, why would you expect him to do so now? Perhaps a better comparison would be to show how Rice did in these years relative to his peak seasons, and expect a similar decline from Driver's peak numbers. Rice still put up good numbers in those years, but they were a far cry from his best seasons.

Like I said, Rice is Greatest of all time and I'm not putting Driver on his level. However, if you go back and look at their stats during prime years, you could argue that Driver had about 75% of the cumulative fantasy points of Rice, give or take a few percent.It's definitely not a given that Driver continues that pace, but it's not out of the question is all I'm saying. People tend to write a guy off a few years early just because they go by the age alone. If you look at the whole picture between Driver's work ethic, track record and his team's passing game, 60-70 catches for 1,000 yards and 5 TD's a season is very reachable. That puts him at WR3 or 4 numbers.Someone made a great point about Tim brown in Oakland along side of Rice. They were like WR1A and 1B, much like Driver and Jennings. Granted Oakland didn't have a TE like Finley, but they did have Charlie Garner eating up 85 catches a year.You can say I'm biased because I own him in a dynasty league, but I own him for a reason, and that reason is a guy like that can win a championship for you.

 

[humpback]

Since Driver didn't put up 75% of Rice's production during their primes, why would you expect him to do so now? Perhaps a better comparison would be to show how Rice did in these years relative to his peak seasons, and expect a similar decline from Driver's peak numbers. Rice still put up good numbers in those years, but they were a far cry from his best seasons.

Like I said, Rice is Greatest of all time and I'm not putting Driver on his level. However, if you go back and look at their stats during prime years, you could argue that Driver had about 75% of the cumulative fantasy points of Rice, give or take a few percent.It's definitely not a given that Driver continues that pace, but it's not out of the question is all I'm saying. People tend to write a guy off a few years early just because they go by the age alone. If you look at the whole picture between Driver's work ethic, track record and his team's passing game, 60-70 catches for 1,000 yards and 5 TD's a season is very reachable. That puts him at WR3 or 4 numbers.

Someone made a great point about Tim brown in Oakland along side of Rice. They were like WR1A and 1B, much like Driver and Jennings. Granted Oakland didn't have a TE like Finley, but they did have Charlie Garner eating up 85 catches a year.

You can say I'm biased because I own him in a dynasty league, but I own him for a reason, and that reason is a guy like that can win a championship for you.

Not so much- are you sure you remember who we're talking about here? In his first 12 seasons, Rice put up 1200+ yards in 10 of them and scored double digit TDs in 9 of them (15 or more TDs in 5). Driver has 3 1200+ yard seasons and 0 double digit TD seasons. 197 receiving TDs vs. 49 for Driver (not including the 10 rushing TDs for Rice vs. 1 for Driver). 1500+ receptions to 647. Rice put up INSANE seasons- 1570 yds. and 15TDs, 1078 yds. and 22 TDs (in 12 games), 1483 yds. and 17 TDs, 1503 yds. and 15 TDs, 1848 yds. and 15 TDs, etc. I like Driver, I really do, but he has not put up 75% of Rice's production.Like I said, a better comparison would be to look at how Rice's numbers fell after age 35. He still put up decent numbers (as good or better than most of Driver's best seasons), but they were a fraction of his best seasons. I don't feel like calculating it right now, but not one of his 7 seasons (not counting 1997 mostly missed due to injury) were as good as ANY of his first 12 seasons (besides his rookie year). I'd guestimate that his FF production fell approx. 30-50% from pre-35 to post-35. If Driver follows a similar path to the GOAT, his days of being FF relevant are numbered.

 

[Tau837]

Someone made a great point about Tim brown in Oakland along side of Rice. They were like WR1A and 1B, much like Driver and Jennings. Granted Oakland didn't have a TE like Finley, but they did have Charlie Garner eating up 85 catches a year.

They were like WR 1a and 1b for exactly one season - 2001. That was the season Brown was 35. After that season, he never ranked higher than WR39 again.Other problems with this comparison:- Rice and Brown are HOFers. Driver isn't.- Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Brown was coming off knee issues entering his age 35 season.- In 2001, Garner caught 72 passes, not 85. But even if we count him as equivalent to Finley and Rice equivalent to Jennings, the Raiders did not have WRs as talented as Jones and Nelson behind Rice and Brown... the next best receiving options after Rice, Brown, and Garner were Jerry Porter and Roland Williams.Basically, this comparison does not support your stance on Driver. Maybe you can come up with another case, but I'm not aware of one that works.

 

[Sabertooth]

Driver will have had 8-9 months to recover by opening day from relatively minor surgery. I wouldn't expect him to fall off a cliff or lose his job like some folks are suggesting. There might be a few targets that may go to others . . . but I wouldn't think that Driver falls to WR90 or something that extreme.

David, knowing that you are much smarter and well versed than I am in such things, have you ever read any data to suggest that older wideouts are more likely to burn out or fade away? I know running backs fall off a cliff rather quickly, but how do wideouts normally peter out.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Jones has Lofty Goals

Can't get a lot of love up for a guy that was the packers 4th or 5th in recpts last year, including being behind Donald Lee.Donald Lee people. Do I really need to say more?

It's not what he did last year, just the question of when/if Jones will ever be a starter in GB. Lee put up his numbers as a starter but Jones is empirically a better player.

 

[ZWK]

There's a reason why everyone brings up Jerry Rice as their example of a receiver who was successful into his late 30s: too many people haven't heard of Charlie Joiner. Let's tune up the Historical Data Dominator. We'll say that you need at least 700 receiving yards to have a decent receiving season. Since 1960, there have been:

33 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 34 or older.

17 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 35 or older.

9 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 36 or older.

2 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 37 or older, Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner.

Driver is talented, dedicated, and hard-working, but lots of wide receivers besides Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner have been talented, dedicated, and hard-working. He's 35 and he's having knee surgery.

 

[Tau837]

There's a reason why everyone brings up Jerry Rice as their example of a receiver who was successful into his late 30s: too many people haven't heard of Charlie Joiner. Let's tune up the Historical Data Dominator. We'll say that you need at least 700 receiving yards to have a decent receiving season. Since 1960, there have been:

33 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 34 or older.

17 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 35 or older.

9 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 36 or older.

2 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 37 or older, Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner.

Driver is talented, dedicated, and hard-working, but lots of wide receivers besides Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner have been talented, dedicated, and hard-working. He's 35 and he's having knee surgery.

 

[noneother]

Jones has Lofty Goals

Can't get a lot of love up for a guy that was the packers 4th or 5th in recpts last year, including being behind Donald Lee.Donald Lee people. Do I really need to say more?

It's not what he did last year, just the question of when/if Jones will ever be a starter in GB. Lee put up his numbers as a starter but Jones is empirically a better player.

I just traded for Jones. However, what were Lee and Jones' targets? Vs completions? And YAC? That may be more indicative of their value going forward as the Pack try to keep Driver healthy for an entire season, including a playoff run. Best team in their division.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

did a bestball draft last night where I handcuffed Driver and JJones. So get ready for Jordy to explode.

 

[sho nuff]

There's a reason why everyone brings up Jerry Rice as their example of a receiver who was successful into his late 30s: too many people haven't heard of Charlie Joiner. Let's tune up the Historical Data Dominator. We'll say that you need at least 700 receiving yards to have a decent receiving season. Since 1960, there have been:

33 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 34 or older.

17 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 35 or older.

9 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 36 or older.

2 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 37 or older, Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner.

Driver is talented, dedicated, and hard-working, but lots of wide receivers besides Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner have been talented, dedicated, and hard-working. He's 35 and he's having knee surgery.

He had knee surgery...and he had them cleaned out. Some people seem to be taking this as he had his ACL replaced.

 

[cr8f]

There's a reason why everyone brings up Jerry Rice as their example of a receiver who was successful into his late 30s: too many people haven't heard of Charlie Joiner. Let's tune up the Historical Data Dominator. We'll say that you need at least 700 receiving yards to have a decent receiving season. Since 1960, there have been:

33 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 34 or older.

17 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 35 or older.

9 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 36 or older.

2 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 37 or older, Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner.

Driver is talented, dedicated, and hard-working, but lots of wide receivers besides Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner have been talented, dedicated, and hard-working. He's 35 and he's having knee surgery.

WTF. Are they kids? Next you'll tell me no one heard of Lance Allworth.

 

[cr8f]

There's a reason why everyone brings up Jerry Rice as their example of a receiver who was successful into his late 30s: too many people haven't heard of Charlie Joiner. Let's tune up the Historical Data Dominator. We'll say that you need at least 700 receiving yards to have a decent receiving season. Since 1960, there have been:

33 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 34 or older.

17 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 35 or older.

9 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 36 or older.

2 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 37 or older, Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner.

Driver is talented, dedicated, and hard-working, but lots of wide receivers besides Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner have been talented, dedicated, and hard-working. He's 35 and he's having knee surgery.

He had knee surgery...and he had them cleaned out. Some people seem to be taking this as he had his ACL replaced.

Some people have bad knees and at the end of their careers they try clean outs to regain ability. Since the Donald hasn't done much on the team since december they may be wary.

Handcuffing Jones is a good idea.

 

[jmo87usc]

I like all the opinions this thread has received. There are alot of good arguments to support both takes on Driver.

I guess to sum it all up we can say he has the possibility to do what only 2 other receivers in history have done. While he has the talent and the supporting cast on his side, he also has age and a pair of recently cleaned out knees against him.

Personally, I think he has more drive and dedication than most WR's at his age in the past, but that's just a hunch and no fact can back that up. It looks like the best way to treat him(and Jones/Nelson) is to buy as low as you are comfortable with and hope for the best.

I'm glad this thread was started because this was a topic I was interested in. Thanks to all for the contributions on this one.

 

[David Yudkin]

There's a reason why everyone brings up Jerry Rice as their example of a receiver who was successful into his late 30s: too many people haven't heard of Charlie Joiner. Let's tune up the Historical Data Dominator. We'll say that you need at least 700 receiving yards to have a decent receiving season. Since 1960, there have been:

33 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 34 or older.

17 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 35 or older.

9 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 36 or older.

2 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 37 or older, Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner.

Driver is talented, dedicated, and hard-working, but lots of wide receivers besides Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner have been talented, dedicated, and hard-working. He's 35 and he's having knee surgery.

What people are forgetting is that few WR play until they are 35+. But the ones that do have generally been decent receivers throughout their careers. So while it may look like hardly any WR hit the 700 yards receiving threshold, on a percentage basis I doubt it's as low as some would think. Either Driver still has skills or he doesn't. IMO, the knee surgery has very little to do with it.

 

[DansRams]

There's a reason why everyone brings up Jerry Rice as their example of a receiver who was successful into his late 30s: too many people haven't heard of Charlie Joiner. Let's tune up the Historical Data Dominator. We'll say that you need at least 700 receiving yards to have a decent receiving season. Since 1960, there have been:

33 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 34 or older.

17 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 35 or older.

9 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 36 or older.

2 players who had a season with at least 700 receiving yards at the age of 37 or older, Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner.

Driver is talented, dedicated, and hard-working, but lots of wide receivers besides Jerry Rice and Charlie Joiner have been talented, dedicated, and hard-working. He's 35 and he's having knee surgery.

What people are forgetting is that few WR play until they are 35+. But the ones that do have generally been decent receivers throughout their careers. So while it may look like hardly any WR hit the 700 yards receiving threshold, on a percentage basis I doubt it's as low as some would think. Either Driver still has skills or he doesn't. IMO, the knee surgery has very little to do with it.

I'm not sure that a 700 yard analysis does much for this debate...who wants a wr on their roster with 700 yards? Maybe for a wr5? If this is to show that Driver can and will hold off Jones for another years, I think that is probable, but I just can't see Driver as a fantasy factor ever again and I can easily see Jones as a fantasy factor if he is starting/when he is starting. I'll take Jones in a Dynasty league over Driver today. Hope > Mediocre if you want to win championships

 

[smackdaddies]

Jones has Lofty Goals

Can't get a lot of love up for a guy that was the packers 4th or 5th in recpts last year, including being behind Donald Lee.Donald Lee people. Do I really need to say more?

It's not what he did last year, just the question of when/if Jones will ever be a starter in GB. Lee put up his numbers as a starter but Jones is empirically a better player.

last year - the shark move was draft Finley your first pick after someone drafted Lee. Lee started only the first half of the season. This year - will the shark move be drafting Driver right after someone drafts Jones?

Driver lead the Pack in receptions last year people - ahead of Jennings. And somehow this year, despite all the first hand observation that he is in great shape, he is going to get replaced?

 

[GreatLakesMike]

How many times has Driver had cartilage cleaned out? It is a very simple procedure. It all depends on how much cartilage was removed of course, but speaking from experience, a simple clean-out is nothing to worry about. If Driver was running around on a bit of torn cartilage last year and had a simple scope, then I think it actually helps him this year. Father time will catch up to everyone, but my knee felt 10 times better after a simple scope. 3 to 4 weeks rehab and you're back to new. I wouldn't read too much into Driver taking it easy right now. Most 35 year old veterans take it easy this time of year.

 

[sho nuff]

Ive posted this article in the Packer thread...but I thought a portion of it was relevant in here too.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5380493

Its mostly about Rodgers...but these two paragraphs is why Driver is still so valuable to the Packers...same way Freeman was more valuable to them than to other teams...trust!!!

Here's what you see: Rodgers taking the snap and firing a slant pass to Donald Driver on second and 10 against the Steelers last December, a simple eight-yard gain that set up a first down that set up a touchdown. Here's what you don't see: the preparation, the time spent in the film room that revealed Pittsburgh's tendency to bring the outside linebacker up tight when the offense sets up in a particular formation. The Packers run a draw out of that formation, so Rodgers told Driver, "The first time we run a draw. The second time, I'm going to hit you with a slant." They ran the draw the first time; the second time, Rodgers walked to the line and gave Driver a look. The outside 'backer was tight. Rodgers took the snap and threw the slant.

Those eight yards are the reason Rodgers plays football -- that decision, that glance, that feeling of being so thoroughly in tune with your teammates. It's the culmination of Scout Team Hero and Dude Time and whatever else Rodgers has done to define and expand his sphere and purge the disappointment from his system. "We were the only two who knew what was happening," he says now.

Here's what you see: a seven-yard TD pass to Driver on a third-and-five play against the Lions on Thanksgiving. Not a great throw, a little behind Driver, who ran hard off the line, then stopped just inside the end zone, turned and caught the ball. Here's what you don't see: The Lions were bringing too many guys for the Packers to protect. The play called for Driver to run a corner route, but there was no way he was going to complete the route before Rodgers got pummeled. They'd seen this scenario on film. So Rodgers took a short drop and trusted telepathy. "I bet all my money that Donald saw what I saw and that he'd stop his route and turn around," Rodgers says. "There was not a word exchanged, or even a look. He did exactly what I thought he would do, and I did exactly what he was hoping I would do. If either one of us is wrong, it looks terrible."

Up in the TV booth, Troy Aikman said that Rodgers got a little bit lucky. But the Packers QB, who has become something of a media scold (he blasted Tony Kornheiser during a recent radio interview), begs to differ. "That's the greatest play I've ever been a part of. There's so much trust involved, and it's not built overnight. That's the most important thing to me, the relationships and the chemistry. That's what I play for."

 

[Jeremy]

We're only 3 practices in, but so far Jordy Nelson has been all over the place, Finley is still a beast, and James Jones has been all but invisible. Driver and Jennings are getting theirs too, but if your choosing between Jordy Nelson and James Jones, so far it's been Nelson in a landslide. Again, only 3 practices, so take it for what it's worth...

Also hearing good things about Brandon Jackson. I guess he's looking much improved. Starks is out with a hamstring, so it looks like Jackson is still your handcuff if you think you need one for Grant.

 

[Sabertooth]

We're only 3 practices in, but so far Jordy Nelson has been all over the place, Finley is still a beast, and James Jones has been all but invisible. Driver and Jennings are getting theirs too, but if your choosing between Jordy Nelson and James Jones, so far it's been Nelson in a landslide. Again, only 3 practices, so take it for what it's worth...Also hearing good things about Brandon Jackson. I guess he's looking much improved. Starks is out with a hamstring, so it looks like Jackson is still your handcuff if you think you need one for Grant.

Where are you getting this info? Twitter? Link? I ask because I bleed Green and Gold moreso than not trusting your info. I'd like to have a good feed from Packers camp. Thinking of heading down for a day or two.

 

[Jeremy]

We're only 3 practices in, but so far Jordy Nelson has been all over the place, Finley is still a beast, and James Jones has been all but invisible. Driver and Jennings are getting theirs too, but if your choosing between Jordy Nelson and James Jones, so far it's been Nelson in a landslide. Again, only 3 practices, so take it for what it's worth...

Also hearing good things about Brandon Jackson. I guess he's looking much improved. Starks is out with a hamstring, so it looks like Jackson is still your handcuff if you think you need one for Grant.

Where are you getting this info? Twitter? Link? I ask because I bleed Green and Gold moreso than not trusting your info. I'd like to have a good feed from Packers camp. Thinking of heading down for a day or two.

Mostly Twitter, yeah. Cheeseheadtv.com does a blog for every practice which includes tweets from many of the local media and bloggers. Here was yesterday's: http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/training-camp-day-twoIf weather permits to have outdoor practice I'm hoping to be there today.

 

[Clifford]

80% of people on their feed say Jackson is a lock at backup. Also saw some posts about Nelson.