Don't look now.... (1 Viewer)

[Twisted]

Any updates on the Bell injury?

 

[wannabee]

twisted, check the bell thread half wa down first page

 

[craigboy]

1-10-DEN20 (5:21) J.Plummer pass incomplete to A.Lelie.

2-10-DEN20 (5:14) J.Plummer pass to C.Adams to DEN 28 for 8 yards (D.Florence).

3-2-DEN28 (4:34) M.Anderson up the middle to DEN 30 for 2 yards (D.Edwards). <------ What happened between here...

1-10-DEN30 (3:52) J.Plummer pass incomplete to C.Adams.

PENALTY on SD-Q.Jammer, Defensive Pass Interference, 4 yards, enforced at DEN 30 - No Play.

1-10-DEN34 (3:48) R.Dayne left tackle to DEN 47 for 13 yards (T.Kiel). <------ and here? Why was Anderson pulled? He just picked up the first on that 3rd and 2

1-10-DEN47 (3:12) R.Dayne left tackle to SD 45 for 8 yards (D.Scott).

2-2-SD45 (2:35) R.Dayne right guard to SD 42 for 3 yards (R.Godfrey).

1-10-SD42 (2:00) J.Plummer pass incomplete to R.Smith.

2-10-SD42 (1:52) R.Dayne left guard to SD 37 for 5 yards (R.Godfrey).

PENALTY on SD-B.Leber, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at SD 42 - No Play.

2-5-SD37 (1:47) R.Dayne right guard to SD 34 for 3 yards (T.Kiel).

3-2-SD34 (1:02) R.Dayne left tackle to SD 33 for 1 yard (B.Leber).

4-1-SD33 57) R.Dayne left end to SD 23 for 10 yards (S.Foley).

1-10-SD23 10) J.Plummer pass incomplete.

2-10-SD23 09) J.Elam 41 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-T.Sauerbrun.

 

[4 - Digit Shark]

The fact that Anderson did not get the goal line carry in itself made all mike anderson owners worried, me included.   Without watching the game or knowing the specific circumstances (how many carries leading up to goal line pluinge, formation, etc..) Pulling anderson on the goal line was the first sign he was losing shanahans favor. 

Everyone is right on with the cruch time carries, that is significant. 

where we go from here is anyone's guess, but for now, I am adding r. dayne.  Anderson had been ineffective in two games, the reason why doesn't matter.  Bell has been out of favor for 2 years now.

Dayne put the team on his back and won the game for them (now that is what I am talking about!! lol).  But dayne did lead the winning drive, and as LHUCKS would say, he commands respect

If I remember correctly, Anderson was not pulled on the goal line when K. Johnson scored from the 3yd line. Anderson caught a 26yd pass to the 3, then lined up behind Johnson in the I. It was just a handoff to the FB. I don't know if that shows he was losing Shanahans favor.To say Anderson had been ineffective in two games, and the reason why doesn't matter, is funny when you consider in week one he had 4 carries before getting hurt. If your saying he's injury prone then that's different, but it's hard to say a guy is ineffective when he gets 4 carries. and that the fact that he only got 4 carries doesn't matter. I know he fumbled, but he did have 90yds on 18 total touches today.

While I have no idea why Dayne took all the carries late, I could see why it would be troubling to Anderson owners. But, I think if Shanny was that upset with Anderson, he would of pulled him sooner. Anderson really didn't do anything bad before Dayne was inserted. Actually, Anderson just converted a 3rd & 2, then Dayne was put in. Maybe Anderson needed a break, maybe his ribs took a hit or maybe Shanny just wanted to get some fresh legs in there against a SD defense that had spent 3+ quarters in that DEN air. I don't know. I guess we'll have to see what happens during the week.

 

[strong]

When people suggest that Bell's injury might have kept him from being on that last drive: Dayne had spelled Anderson earlier in the game before the Bell injury. Dayne didn't get the carry, but he was the guy that ran on the field. The announcers commented on it.

 

[SSOG]

1-10-DEN20 (5:21) J.Plummer pass incomplete to A.Lelie.

2-10-DEN20 (5:14) J.Plummer pass to C.Adams to DEN 28 for 8 yards (D.Florence).

3-2-DEN28 (4:34) M.Anderson up the middle to DEN 30 for 2 yards (D.Edwards). <------ What happened between here...

1-10-DEN30 (3:52) J.Plummer pass incomplete to C.Adams.

PENALTY on SD-Q.Jammer, Defensive Pass Interference, 4 yards, enforced at DEN 30 - No Play.

1-10-DEN34 (3:48) R.Dayne left tackle to DEN 47 for 13 yards (T.Kiel). <------ and here? Why was Anderson pulled? He just picked up the first on that 3rd and 2

1-10-DEN47 (3:12) R.Dayne left tackle to SD 45 for 8 yards (D.Scott).

2-2-SD45 (2:35) R.Dayne right guard to SD 42 for 3 yards (R.Godfrey).

1-10-SD42 (2:00) J.Plummer pass incomplete to R.Smith.

2-10-SD42 (1:52) R.Dayne left guard to SD 37 for 5 yards (R.Godfrey).

PENALTY on SD-B.Leber, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at SD 42 - No Play.

2-5-SD37 (1:47) R.Dayne right guard to SD 34 for 3 yards (T.Kiel).

3-2-SD34 (1:02) R.Dayne left tackle to SD 33 for 1 yard (B.Leber).

4-1-SD33 57) R.Dayne left end to SD 23 for 10 yards (S.Foley).

1-10-SD23 10) J.Plummer pass incomplete.

2-10-SD23 09) J.Elam 41 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-T.Sauerbrun.

According to the snippett posted, Shanahan had planned on replacing Anderson at the end of the game all along. Perhaps he had someone counting carries and took Anderson out as soon as he hit 15. Maybe it was his gut feeling that he didn't want to overextend Anderson. Maybe he wanted to give Dayne a shot while Anderson was injured and less than 100%, because Bell had already gotten his.Don't read too much into it. Anderson's still the guy.

 

[Judge Smails]

Sorry, don't buy it..Granted it was a small sample, but Dayne showed he could produce in this offense. When you see runs for 13, 8, 10 yards, etc, - that is what you expect to see normally in the Denver running game. Ribs are not, Anderson did not look better than Dayne. And I'll tell you what. When you show confidence in a new guy with the game on the line, a CRITICAL game at that, and he delivers, he's gonna get his shot. I'm goin' out on a limb and sayin' that within 2 weeks Dayne has the #1 RB job in Denver...

 

[SSOG]

Sorry, don't buy it..Granted it was a small sample, but Dayne showed he could produce in this offense. When you see runs for 13, 8, 10 yards, etc, - that is what you expect to see normally in the Denver running game. Ribs are not, Anderson did not look better than Dayne. And I'll tell you what. When you show confidence in a new guy with the game on the line, a CRITICAL game at that, and he delivers, he's gonna get his shot. I'm goin' out on a limb and sayin' that within 2 weeks Dayne has the #1 RB job in Denver...

Buy it or not, it's how it is in Denver. Anderson got 4 carries in Miami, and then 15 carries in a game where he gutted it back from injury and played through pain. He's done nothing to lose the starting job, and the job *is* his until he loses it.Again, Shanahan has confidence in his system to produce. If he was only planning on giving Anderson 15 carries, then he only would have given Anderson 15 carries, end of story. Maybe if Dayne had been struggling on the drive, he would have brought Anderson back in on 4th-and-1, but Dayne was playing well, so he saw no reason to alter his original plan.

Besides, it's not as if Dayne outplayed Anderson. He might have looked good running the ball, but you can't discount Anderson's receiving totals, especially that HUGE 26 yarder that set up the 3 yard Johnson run (and saved them from embarassment after that asinine "too many men on the field" penalty).

I'm pretty sure Pony Boy will back me up on this. Anderson is still THE GUY. All Dayne did with this performance is probably move ahead of Bell into the #2 spot.

 

[thatguy]

Sorry, don't buy it..Granted it was a small sample, but Dayne showed he could produce in this offense.  When you see runs for 13, 8, 10 yards, etc, - that is what you expect to see normally in the Denver running game.  Ribs are not, Anderson did not look better than Dayne.  And I'll tell you what.  When you show confidence in a new guy with the game on the line, a CRITICAL game at that, and he delivers, he's gonna get his shot.  I'm goin' out on a limb and sayin' that within 2 weeks Dayne has the #1 RB job in Denver...

Buy it or not, it's how it is in Denver. Anderson got 4 carries in Miami, and then 15 carries in a game where he gutted it back from injury and played through pain. He's done nothing to lose the starting job, and the job *is* his until he loses it.Again, Shanahan has confidence in his system to produce. If he was only planning on giving Anderson 15 carries, then he only would have given Anderson 15 carries, end of story. Maybe if Dayne had been struggling on the drive, he would have brought Anderson back in on 4th-and-1, but Dayne was playing well, so he saw no reason to alter his original plan.

Besides, it's not as if Dayne outplayed Anderson. He might have looked good running the ball, but you can't discount Anderson's receiving totals, especially that HUGE 26 yarder that set up the 3 yard Johnson run (and saved them from embarassment after that asinine "too many men on the field" penalty).

I'm pretty sure Pony Boy will back me up on this. Anderson is still THE GUY. All Dayne did with this performance is probably move ahead of Bell into the #2 spot.

I'll back you up SSOG.I have a hard time believing that most people who claim Dayne outplayed Anderson watched the whole game. Anderson have very little running room all day, as has been the case for all Denver runners against San Diego in recent history.

On Dayne's first carry, the hole was huge.... seriously, huge. Anybody could have got 13 yards through that hole. On all of his runs after that, the blocking seemed much better than anything Anderson saw. Sure, Dayne ran well, but it was nothing special. I think it's likely that the San Diego defensive line hit a wall at that point. Or after two season of trying, Shanahan finally figured out how to beat that defense.

Regardless, Dayne didn't outplay Anderson. Anderson likely would have been just as successful if not more were he in the game for those 6 carries. Why Dayne was in there is hard to say, but Anderson will start against the Chiefs and he will put up good numbers.

 

[zamboni]

I would agree with the others that Anderson should still be the guy. If Shanahan stuck with Griffin for quite some time last year, I imagine he'll do the same with Mike, who's proven himself in the past.All that said, it does appear that Anderson's grasp on the starting job is much more tenous than it was a few weeks ago.

 

[P Boy]

Any updates on the Bell injury?

He's listed as day-to-day. He'll probably be ready to go this coming weekend, but the injury will likely keep him out of significant RB action for the balance of the year (or did you miss Dayne taking the team down the field in the biggest drive of the game w/ an 0-2 start on the line?)Love,

The :11: tool

 

[P Boy]

I'm pretty sure Pony Boy will back me up on this. Anderson is still THE GUY. All Dayne did with this performance is probably move ahead of Bell into the #2 spot.

Anderson is absolutely still the #1 RB. But dayne earned some reps during live action with his performance. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Dayne get some work vs KC even if Anderson is feeling great (which we know with the torn rib cartilage that he won't be).I said this in a post a couple of days ago: Shanahan is in the process of figuring out who his best RB is right now. By week 4/5 we'll all know & that guy will be getting the lion's share of the carries the rest of the way (unless Shanahan completely changes his M.O. from 10 years of being HC of DEN).Right now, Anderson has a leg up, but Dayne closed some ground with his 4th quarter work & the Anderson fumble in the first quarter. Bell seems to be on the outside looking in right now.

 

[H.K.]

Bell seems to be on the outside looking in right now.

Understatement of the year.

 

[Mr. Mojo]

Good thing he ran into his own blocker to knock himself down while plodding into the open field or it might have started a starting RB controversy!

Saw that, too.

Rod Smith gave him a look from the ground that said "what an a@#!?!?"

 

[Sabertooth]

Couple of thoughts here. 1. To all the people bashing Dayne. Get your head out of the sand. Your antagonistic half-hearted jokes are neither: a) Funny b) Witty c) Intelligent I haven't laughed at a single one of them yet. Nothing even mustered a chuckle. Do better with the jokes or go lay by your dish. Bush league.2) To the people making reference to Dayne's career up to this point, I offer these two sets of numbers: 37, 40, 97, 162, 585, 2111, 16Figure out what those numbers are and get back to this post.3) Mike Anderson looks to be in real trouble. He may get another start to prove himself but if he's not producing by half-time this week, I think Dayne swoops in and gets the rock from here on out. Tatum Bell just seems to be a bridesmaid. He just hasn't gotten in done in spite of his high draft status and repeated opportunities to take the ball and run.

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm pretty sure Pony Boy will back me up on this. Anderson is still THE GUY. All Dayne did with this performance is probably move ahead of Bell into the #2 spot.

Anderson is absolutely still the #1 RB. But dayne earned some reps during live action with his performance. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Dayne get some work vs KC even if Anderson is feeling great (which we know with the torn rib cartilage that he won't be).I said this in a post a couple of days ago: Shanahan is in the process of figuring out who his best RB is right now. By week 4/5 we'll all know & that guy will be getting the lion's share of the carries the rest of the way (unless Shanahan completely changes his M.O. from 10 years of being HC of DEN).

Right now, Anderson has a leg up, but Dayne closed some ground with his 4th quarter work & the Anderson fumble in the first quarter. Bell seems to be on the outside looking in right now.

I've quietly acquired Dayne in the past weeks in most of my leagues. He is a great under-the-radar pickup this week as well. For those of us who doubted FWP even though we saw what we saw in the preseason, Dayne could be a rebound.

 

[Archie Bunker]

Sorry, don't buy it..Granted it was a small sample, but Dayne showed he could produce in this offense.  When you see runs for 13, 8, 10 yards, etc, - that is what you expect to see normally in the Denver running game.  Ribs are not, Anderson did not look better than Dayne.  And I'll tell you what.  When you show confidence in a new guy with the game on the line, a CRITICAL game at that, and he delivers, he's gonna get his shot.  I'm goin' out on a limb and sayin' that within 2 weeks Dayne has the #1 RB job in Denver...

Buy it or not, it's how it is in Denver. Anderson got 4 carries in Miami, and then 15 carries in a game where he gutted it back from injury and played through pain. He's done nothing to lose the starting job, and the job *is* his until he loses it.Again, Shanahan has confidence in his system to produce. If he was only planning on giving Anderson 15 carries, then he only would have given Anderson 15 carries, end of story. Maybe if Dayne had been struggling on the drive, he would have brought Anderson back in on 4th-and-1, but Dayne was playing well, so he saw no reason to alter his original plan.

Besides, it's not as if Dayne outplayed Anderson. He might have looked good running the ball, but you can't discount Anderson's receiving totals, especially that HUGE 26 yarder that set up the 3 yard Johnson run (and saved them from embarassment after that asinine "too many men on the field" penalty).

I'm pretty sure Pony Boy will back me up on this. Anderson is still THE GUY. All Dayne did with this performance is probably move ahead of Bell into the #2 spot.

I'll back you up SSOG.I have a hard time believing that most people who claim Dayne outplayed Anderson watched the whole game. Anderson have very little running room all day, as has been the case for all Denver runners against San Diego in recent history.

On Dayne's first carry, the hole was huge.... seriously, huge. Anybody could have got 13 yards through that hole. On all of his runs after that, the blocking seemed much better than anything Anderson saw. Sure, Dayne ran well, but it was nothing special. I think it's likely that the San Diego defensive line hit a wall at that point. Or after two season of trying, Shanahan finally figured out how to beat that defense.

Regardless, Dayne didn't outplay Anderson. Anderson likely would have been just as successful if not more were he in the game for those 6 carries. Why Dayne was in there is hard to say, but Anderson will start against the Chiefs and he will put up good numbers.

I'm not saying Dayne is going to be the starter, but he unquestionably outplayed Anderson. And yes, I did watch the game. There was a big hole on the first play, but on more than a couple of carries, Dayne bullied his way for some tough yards where there was no/little hole. I find it hard to believe that, like a light switch, all of a sudden the blocking got that much better.Your conclusions are based on a multitiude assumptions, so it carries as little or less weight as the Dayne fans' assertions. IF Anderson was in there, he would have done as well. The blocking SEEMED better. I THINK the SD line hit a wall.

Will Anderson remain the starter? Probably. But don't sugarcoat it. Dayne was the better back yesterday. Period.

 

[H.K.]

Any reports on how Anderson's ribs felt after the game? Most felt he would not perform well based on the injury anyway and he still put up 90 yards. Pretty tough effort IMO.

 

[Otis]

Good thing he ran into his own blocker to knock himself down while plodding into the open field or it might have started a starting RB controversy!

Saw that, too.

Rod Smith gave him a look from the ground that said "what an a@#!?!?"

This was seriously embarassing. That was the best Ray-Charles-playing-football impression I have ever witnessed.

 

[Judge Smails]

Sorry, don't buy it..Granted it was a small sample, but Dayne showed he could produce in this offense.  When you see runs for 13, 8, 10 yards, etc, - that is what you expect to see normally in the Denver running game.  Ribs are not, Anderson did not look better than Dayne.  And I'll tell you what.  When you show confidence in a new guy with the game on the line, a CRITICAL game at that, and he delivers, he's gonna get his shot.  I'm goin' out on a limb and sayin' that within 2 weeks Dayne has the #1 RB job in Denver...

Buy it or not, it's how it is in Denver. Anderson got 4 carries in Miami, and then 15 carries in a game where he gutted it back from injury and played through pain. He's done nothing to lose the starting job, and the job *is* his until he loses it.Again, Shanahan has confidence in his system to produce. If he was only planning on giving Anderson 15 carries, then he only would have given Anderson 15 carries, end of story. Maybe if Dayne had been struggling on the drive, he would have brought Anderson back in on 4th-and-1, but Dayne was playing well, so he saw no reason to alter his original plan.

So you mean to tell me that Shanahan would have been so rigid in his "plan" that he would risk going 0-2 in a must win game at home in the final 2 minutes? That's like saying 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th in the World Series, and Torre has Rivera on a 20 pitch max pitch count, that he'd pull him in that situation. Uh uh. If Dayne did this in the 2nd/3rd quarters it wouldn't have meant as much. Could have just been giving Anderson a blow. Matter of fact, if he was so sold on Anderson getting 15 carries, why didn't he spell him for longer stretches earlier and save him for the crucial 4th quarter? Argument doesn't hold any water IMHO.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

1-10-DEN20 (5:21) J.Plummer pass incomplete to A.Lelie.

2-10-DEN20 (5:14) J.Plummer pass to C.Adams to DEN 28 for 8 yards (D.Florence).

3-2-DEN28 (4:34) M.Anderson up the middle to DEN 30 for 2 yards (D.Edwards).

1-10-DEN30 (3:52) J.Plummer pass incomplete to C.Adams.

PENALTY on SD-Q.Jammer, Defensive Pass Interference, 4 yards, enforced at DEN 30 - No Play.

1-10-DEN34 (3:48) R.Dayne left tackle to DEN 47 for 13 yards (T.Kiel).

1-10-DEN47 (3:12) R.Dayne left tackle to SD 45 for 8 yards (D.Scott).

2-2-SD45 (2:35) R.Dayne right guard to SD 42 for 3 yards (R.Godfrey).

1-10-SD42 (2:00) J.Plummer pass incomplete to R.Smith.

2-10-SD42 (1:52) R.Dayne left guard to SD 37 for 5 yards (R.Godfrey).

PENALTY on SD-B.Leber, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at SD 42 - No Play.

2-5-SD37 (1:47) R.Dayne right guard to SD 34 for 3 yards (T.Kiel).

3-2-SD34 (1:02) R.Dayne left tackle to SD 33 for 1 yard (B.Leber).

4-1-SD33 57) R.Dayne left end to SD 23 for 10 yards (S.Foley). <------ were they out of time outs? why didn't they kick it here?

1-10-SD23 10) J.Plummer pass incomplete.

2-10-SD23 09) J.Elam 41 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-T.Sauerbrun.

Shanahan analyzed risk. He thought his chances of picking up the down and kicking a shorter field goal were better than his chances of making a long field goal. Like him or not, you have to admit he has cajones.By the way, everyone, now's the perfect buy low time to pick up Denver's runners. They're going off next week, and they're just going to get more expensive from here on out.

Curtis Martin 20-57 3-20Lamont Jordan 15-59 6-32

Yeah, make sure to start MA this week. The Chiefs D is a pushover against the run.

 

[doughboydeluxe]

Jordan got 59, not 39 yards rushing vs. the Chiefs. Still not overwhelming, but 20 yards is 20 yards.

 

[Homer]

Buy it or not, it's how it is in Denver. Anderson got 4 carries in Miami, and then 15 carries in a game where he gutted it back from injury and played through pain. He's done nothing to lose the starting job, and the job *is* his until he loses it.

Mike Anderson absolutely DID do something to lose the starting job, the same thing that got Griffin in hot water early last season when he was 'the man': Anderson fumbled at the goal line and put Denver behind the 8-ball for pretty much the rest of the game.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

Jordan got 59, not 39 yards rushing vs. the Chiefs. Still not overwhelming, but 20 yards is 20 yards.

fixed. typo sorry

 

[SSOG]

I'm pretty sure Pony Boy will back me up on this. Anderson is still THE GUY. All Dayne did with this performance is probably move ahead of Bell into the #2 spot.

Anderson is absolutely still the #1 RB. But dayne earned some reps during live action with his performance. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Dayne get some work vs KC even if Anderson is feeling great (which we know with the torn rib cartilage that he won't be).I said this in a post a couple of days ago: Shanahan is in the process of figuring out who his best RB is right now. By week 4/5 we'll all know & that guy will be getting the lion's share of the carries the rest of the way (unless Shanahan completely changes his M.O. from 10 years of being HC of DEN).

Right now, Anderson has a leg up, but Dayne closed some ground with his 4th quarter work & the Anderson fumble in the first quarter. Bell seems to be on the outside looking in right now.

Of course Dayne has earned himself some carries. Like I said, I think he's the #2 now, and Denver's #2 always gets some carries to keep the #1 from getting killed under 400 carries a year.

3) Mike Anderson looks to be in real trouble. He may get another start to prove himself but if he's not producing by half-time this week, I think Dayne swoops in and gets the rock from here on out. Tatum Bell just seems to be a bridesmaid. He just hasn't gotten in done in spite of his high draft status and repeated opportunities to take the ball and run.

Again, Anderson is not in "real trouble". He's still the man in Denver. Take it to the bank.

So you mean to tell me that Shanahan would have been so rigid in his "plan" that he would risk going 0-2 in a must win game at home in the final 2 minutes? That's like saying 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th in the World Series, and Torre has Rivera on a 20 pitch max pitch count, that he'd pull him in that situation. Uh uh. If Dayne did this in the 2nd/3rd quarters it wouldn't have meant as much. Could have just been giving Anderson a blow. Matter of fact, if he was so sold on Anderson getting 15 carries, why didn't he spell him for longer stretches earlier and save him for the crucial 4th quarter? Argument doesn't hold any water IMHO.

Ummm.... yes, I mean to tell you that Shanahan is that rigid in his "plan". First of all, the game was tied and there was only a minute left, so it's not like it was "Make it or lose", it was "make it or go to overtime with a defense that has given up 41 yards in the second half".Second, I don't follow baseball at all, but I can assure you the two situations are not at all comparable. I'm assuming that there's a big talent dropoff between Rivera and whoever is behind him. That's not the case in Denver, where Shanahan has a lot of faith in his playcalling and his system to get it done. Second, this wasn't the "world series", this wasn't the superbowl, this wasn't the playoffs, this wasn't even week 14. This was WEEK TWO. This game was NOT a must-win. IT'S WEAK FREAKING TWO. LET'S NOT GET CARRIED AWAY HERE.

Third, if Shanahan didn't trust in his system, or was adverse to taking risks, would they have even been going for it on 4th-and-1 in the first place?

If the closest you can come to understanding the Denver's running game is making wacky and inaccurate baseball metaphors, then you probably shouldn't be making sweeping evaluations of Denver's running situation. Heck, most of the "experts" tend to be wrong more than they're right when it comes to Denver's running game. From what I've seen, the locals and the homers are really the way to go if you want to know how things stand in Denver. The only posters I listen to when it comes to speculating about Denver are Lammey and Pony Boy.

Curtis Martin 20-57 3-20

Lamont Jordan 15-39 6-32

Yeah, make sure to start MA this week. The Chiefs D is a pushover against the run.

That's not the point. The point is that Denver's running game dominates 4-3 defenses, end of story. I think giving up 4 ypc to LaMont Jordan augers well for Denver's rushing fortunes this upcoming week.

Mike Anderson absolutely DID do something to lose the starting job, the same thing that got Griffin in hot water early last season when he was 'the man': Anderson fumbled at the goal line and put Denver behind the 8-ball for pretty much the rest of the game.

First- Griffin fumbled the ball on the goal line in game 2 last year. He lost the starting job in game 5. Just an observation.Second- Anderson was wearing a flak jacket for the game. It had been posted before the game even started that flak jackets increase fumble rates. It was well known to those paying attention (as I'm sure Shanahan and Anderson were) that the chances that Anderson would fumble were greatly increased during the game.

 

[tenacious_b]

SSOG, Mike Anderson owner?A Mike Anderson owner should have this perspective: At best I believe that Dayne will get to share carries in a RBBC. At worst Dayne will takeover the starting RB role. The good thing about Anderson is that he is a reliable vet who has been there before. The bad thing is that he's pretty old, banged up, and he fumbled this week.

 

[Paper Lions]

Second, this wasn't the "world series", this wasn't the superbowl, this wasn't the playoffs, this wasn't even week 14. This was WEEK TWO. This game was NOT a must-win. IT'S WEAK FREAKING TWO. LET'S NOT GET CARRIED AWAY HERE.

Your arguments are fine, but this is one serious logic flaw. Shannahan wants to win this game, and badly. Every game is huge in the NFL.He put Dayne in because, under ALL the circumstances - including a dinged up MA, Dayne gave him the best chance in his estimation. He did NOT put Dayne in because of some plan he felt he had to stick to.

 

[P Boy]

Some interesting numbers, small sample I know, but numbers just the same:

A = Anderson

B = Bell

D = Dayne

Yards in carries so far in the regular season in descending order:

A B D

8 30 13

8 6 10

6 4 8

4 4 5

3 4 5

3 2 3

3 1 3

3 0 1

3 0

3 -1

3 -1

3 -1

2 -2

2

2

2

0

-1

-3

Anderson - 1 fumble (lost)

Bell - 1 fumble (recovered)

Dayne - 0 fumbles

 

[tenacious_b]

Second, this wasn't the "world series", this wasn't the superbowl, this wasn't the playoffs, this wasn't even week 14. This was WEEK TWO. This game was NOT a must-win. IT'S WEAK FREAKING TWO. LET'S NOT GET CARRIED AWAY HERE.

Your arguments are fine, but this is one serious logic flaw. Shannahan wants to win this game, and badly. Every game is huge in the NFL.He put Dayne in because, under ALL the circumstances - including a dinged up MA, Dayne gave him the best chance in his estimation. He did NOT put Dayne in because of some plan he felt he had to stick to.

Agreed. I don't know what people are thinking if they don't understand this concept. Especially when they got creamed in week 1 and Shannahan is under a lot of scrutiny.

 

[P Boy]

Second, this wasn't the "world series", this wasn't the superbowl, this wasn't the playoffs, this wasn't even week 14. This was WEEK TWO. This game was NOT a must-win. IT'S WEAK FREAKING TWO. LET'S NOT GET CARRIED AWAY HERE.

What's the difference in importance between a week 2 win and a week 14 win? Are you seriously implying that the week 14 game is more important simply because it is played later in the year?And this was a huge game for DEN. They already had 1 conference loss, and a very bad one at that, and were playing a division team at home. The implications of loss in this game with KC coming up this coming week were huge.Make no mistake, SD's loss yesterday was a very big loss for them, although their week 1 loss against a non-conference foe doesn't hurt them as much as the conference loss to MIA hurts DEN.In the last 5 years, of the 60 teams that have made the playoffs, only 4 of them have started 0-2:'03 Eagles'02 Steelers'02 Falcons'01 PatriotsYou start off 0-2 in the NFL & your odds of making the playoffs decrease dramatically.

 

[Disco Stu]

A Mike Anderson owner should have this perspective: At best I believe that Dayne will get to share carries in a RBBC.

When has Shanahan ever used a RBBC?

 

[tenacious_b]

A Mike Anderson owner should have this perspective: At best I believe that Dayne will get to share carries in a RBBC.

When has Shanahan ever used a RBBC?

Did you watch yesterday's game? Anyway, I was just being hopeful for Anderson owners. I think Dayne will be the starter eventually.

 

[Judge Smails]

The only posters I listen to when it comes to speculating about Denver are Lammey and Pony Boy.

Tells me everything I need to know about your opinions in the future. In this day and age, when anybody with a broadband connection in the world has open access to everything, including Rocky Mountain News, ESPN, Shanahan press conferences, bloggers, etc that only 2 people who live in Denver and wear orange jerseys on Sundays would be valid sources of information......puhleeeeze.

 

[SSOG]

SSOG, Mike Anderson owner?A Mike Anderson owner should have this perspective: At best I believe that Dayne will get to share carries in a RBBC. At worst Dayne will takeover the starting RB role. The good thing about Anderson is that he is a reliable vet who has been there before. The bad thing is that he's pretty old, banged up, and he fumbled this week.

Ah, we're playing the whole "You can't have an objective perspective because you own the player" card.

You want to know WHY I own Mike Anderson? Because I had an objective enough perspective that I actually predicted Mike Anderson would win the starting job... BACK IN JULY. I wasn't saying that he had a shot to win the job. I was saying that I had him as my odds-on favorite to win the job outright. And I was getting ridiculed for quietly loading up on Mike Anderson in every league.

So yes, I'm a Mike Anderson owner. If anything, I think that's a testament to my ability to guage the Denver running attack.

Oh, by the way, I was also the guy starting this "Dayne will be the backup over Bell" talk back before the season started, and I was getting ridiculed for that, as well.

Now, will Dayne get a share of the carries? ABSOLUTELY. Denver runs the ball more than any team other than Baltimore. Does that make this an RBBC? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Anderson will still get the rock 20+ times a game.

What's the difference in importance between a week 2 win and a week 14 win? Are you seriously implying that the week 14 game is more important simply because it is played later in the year?And this was a huge game for DEN. They already had 1 conference loss, and a very bad one at that, and were playing a division team at home. The implications of loss in this game with KC coming up this coming week were huge.

Make no mistake, SD's loss yesterday was a very big loss for them, although their week 1 loss against a non-conference foe doesn't hurt them as much as the conference loss to MIA hurts DEN.

In the last 5 years, of the 60 teams that have made the playoffs, only 4 of them have started 0-2:

'03 Eagles

'02 Steelers

'02 Falcons

'01 Patriots

You start off 0-2 in the NFL & your odds of making the playoffs decrease dramatically.

You know *WHY* teams that start 0-2 have a bad shot at making the playoffs? Because most of the time, if you start 0-2, you're a bad team. This is a case of lurking variables. It's not that losing your first two games decreases your chances of making the playoffs more than... say... winning your first and losing your second and third. It's just that the teams that open up 0-2, for the most part, aren't as good as the teams that don't.

Am I saying that a week 14 win is more important than a week 2 win? Maybe, maybe not. The difference is that in week 14, a game might legitimately be a "must win". For instance, if you're 5-7 in week 14, then that game is a MUST WIN. You absolutely MUST WIN that game to have a shot of making the playoffs. A week 2 game is NEVER a must win. Worst case scenario leaves you two games back with 14 to play.

A Mike Anderson owner should have this perspective: At best I believe that Dayne will get to share carries in a RBBC.

When has Shanahan ever used a RBBC?

Did you watch yesterday's game? Anyway, I was just being hopeful for Anderson owners. I think Dayne will be the starter eventually.

You've hit the nail on the head. Mike Shanahan DOES use an RBBC... as an absolute last resort when the guy who is the unquestioned starter is injured or just plain worn down. See 2001, see the end of 2004, see yesterday's game.

So what does that tell us? That Mike Anderson is still the unquestioned starter, he was just injured or worn down.

Come on guys, gentlemen's bet. I bet you that Mike Anderson is a 20 carry a game RB for as long as he is healthy. I would stake my reputation as a Denver Prognosticator on it.

Tells me everything I need to know about your opinions in the future. In this day and age' date=' when anybody with a broadband connection in the world has open access to everything, including Rocky Mountain News, ESPN, Shanahan press conferences, bloggers, etc that only 2 people who live in Denver and wear orange jerseys on Sundays would be valid sources of information......puhleeeeze.[/quote']Ummm... I said the only POSTERS I listen to are those two. As in the only guys on this board that I listen to are those two. I never said I don't read the Rocky Mountain News. I never said I don't read ESPN. I never said I don't read the Denver Post. I never said I don't read Shanny's press conferences. I do ALL of those. And then I compile all that data and combine it with my knowledge of Shanahan and the Denver offense, and I form an educated opinion. What I'm saying is that Pony Boy and Lammey are the only two other posters who I trust to do the same, rather than blindly regurgitating what the "experts" said.

Want an example? When all the "experts" were busy ringing Tatum's Bell this offseason, who were the first two posters on the board to jump off of Bell's bandwagon and face the reality of Mike Anderson? Lammey and Pony. And everyone else fought them kicking and screaming, because the "experts" still said Bell would still win the job, and was only #2 for motivational reasons.

My educated opinion told me that Anderson would win the starting job back in July. My educated opinion told me that Dayne would win the backup job back in August. You'll forgive me if I don't start falling all over myself to listen to all those people who called me an idiot on both counts at the time.

Fact of the matter is, from what I've seen, Lammey and Pony understand how Shanny works... and the vast majority of posters do not.

 

[Dope]

If the system is the thing and it doesn't matter who the RB is...why play the hurt guy?

 

[Ridgelake]

Keep it up, SSOG!Doing a good job defending your position. I know who I am listening to on this......

 

[SSOG]

If the system is the thing and it doesn't matter who the RB is...why play the hurt guy?

You play your best player, but you don't cry if you have to sit him or let him go. That was their modus operandi when Olandis Gary took over, that was their modus operandi when Anderson (v.2000) took over, and that was their modus operandi when they let Portis go to Washington in a trade.Denver's running game endures... but that doesn't mean they're not going to play their best player when they can. Thought Anderson was their best player, so they played him. They didn't want to overuse him, so they sat him. Pretty simple.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

You've hit the nail on the head. Mike Shanahan DOES use an RBBC... as an absolute last resort when the guy who is the unquestioned starter is injured or just plain worn down. See 2001, see the end of 2004, see yesterday's game.

So what does that tell us? That Mike Anderson is still the unquestioned starter, he was just injured or worn down.

Come on guys, gentlemen's bet. I bet you that Mike Anderson is a 20 carry a game RB for as long as he is healthy. I would stake my reputation as a Denver Prognosticator on it.

I think your post is articulated very well except this point. What in yesterday's game, and with Shanny's past, tells you that Anderson is the unquestioned starter? If anything I think Shanny's past would tell us he will go with the "hot" back. In this particular game the arguement could be made that was Dayne.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Am I saying that a week 14 win is more important than a week 2 win? Maybe, maybe not. The difference is that in week 14, a game might legitimately be a "must win". For instance, if you're 5-7 in week 14, then that game is a MUST WIN. You absolutely MUST WIN that game to have a shot of making the playoffs. A week 2 game is NEVER a must win. Worst case scenario leaves you two games back with 14 to play.

It was a "must win" for reasons other than playoff implications. It was the home opener, it was a division game, it was after being embarassed by Miami week one, the drive occured after MANY mistakes and a game full of sloppy play.I am not a Denver fan, but I live in the Denver area. Fans are still not happy after eeking out that W. Some are still calling for Shanny to resign as GM (which really means resign outright, as I don't see him accepting the role of just HC). If they had lost that game all hell would have broken lose.It may not have been a "must win" to make the playoffs, but it was a must win for other reasons.Not only did he put Dayne it, they choose to call his number on a high risk 4th down that could have lost them the game.A lot of what you say makes sense, but I think you are not giving enought thought to what happened, when it happened and who they went to when their back was against the wall.This wasn't 3rd quarter and this wasn't garbage time. The game was on the line, and they had the personel in the game that they felt gave the the very best chance to win at the moment. To think otherwise is foolish.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Jordan got 59, not 39 yards rushing vs. the Chiefs. Still not overwhelming, but 20 yards is 20 yards.

Not to mention he had a 56 yard TD run called back because of a holding that had no bearing on the play. It probably should have been called but the fact is KC defense gave up that long run as well.

 

[tenacious_b]

You've hit the nail on the head. Mike Shanahan DOES use an RBBC... as an absolute last resort when the guy who is the unquestioned starter is injured or just plain worn down. See 2001, see the end of 2004, see yesterday's game.

So what does that tell us? That Mike Anderson is still the unquestioned starter, he was just injured or worn down.

Come on guys, gentlemen's bet. I bet you that Mike Anderson is a 20 carry a game RB for as long as he is healthy. I would stake my reputation as a Denver Prognosticator on it.

I think your post is articulated very well except this point. What in yesterday's game, and with Shanny's past, tells you that Anderson is the unquestioned starter? If anything I think Shanny's past would tell us he will go with the "hot" back. In this particular game the arguement could be made that was Dayne.

Exactly. If there's one thing you can say about the Denver backfield, with a high degree of certainty, it's that Mike Anderson is NOT the unquestioned starter. There are questions there. You have to take injuries into account too.

 

[SSOG]

I think your post is articulated very well except this point. What in yesterday's game, and with Shanny's past, tells you that Anderson is the unquestioned starter? If anything I think Shanny's past would tell us he will go with the "hot" back. In this particular game the arguement could be made that was Dayne.

Like he went with the "hot back" last season, when he kept Griffin as the starter until game 5?Give me one example of Shanny pulling the plug on an RB because the other RB was hotter for one game (actually, one half of one quarter of one game. In reality, two-thirds of one drive in one half of one quarter of one game).

Am I saying that a week 14 win is more important than a week 2 win? Maybe, maybe not. The difference is that in week 14, a game might legitimately be a "must win". For instance, if you're 5-7 in week 14, then that game is a MUST WIN. You absolutely MUST WIN that game to have a shot of making the playoffs. A week 2 game is NEVER a must win. Worst case scenario leaves you two games back with 14 to play.

It was a "must win" for reasons other than playoff implications. It was the home opener, it was a division game, it was after being embarassed by Miami week one, the drive occured after MANY mistakes and a game full of sloppy play.I am not a Denver fan, but I live in the Denver area. Fans are still not happy after eeking out that W. Some are still calling for Shanny to resign as GM (which really means resign outright, as I don't see him accepting the role of just HC). If they had lost that game all hell would have broken lose.

It may not have been a "must win" to make the playoffs, but it was a must win for other reasons.

Not only did he put Dayne it, they choose to call his number on a high risk 4th down that could have lost them the game.

A lot of what you say makes sense, but I think you are not giving enought thought to what happened, when it happened and who they went to when their back was against the wall.

This wasn't 3rd quarter and this wasn't garbage time. The game was on the line, and they had the personel in the game that they felt gave the the very best chance to win at the moment. To think otherwise is foolish.

Just because the football fans think it's a must win does NOT mean it was a must win. A must win means exactly that- that the team MUST WIN IT. The fact that teams have started out 0-2 and made the playoffs PROVES BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that no game-2 can be considered a MUST WIN. And again, Shanny might have thought that Dayne was a better fit for the offense at the time, but if he did, it was only because Anderson was injured and had used up his carry allotment.

Exactly. If there's one thing you can say about the Denver backfield, with a high degree of certainty, it's that Mike Anderson is NOT the unquestioned starter. There are questions there. You have to take injuries into account too.

Ummm... when I say unquestioned starter, I don't mean that armchair QBs aren't questioning it. Heck, Daunte Culpepper, Jake Plummer, Priest Holmes... if you look at armchair QBs, none of these guys are unquestioned starters, either.What I'm saying is that Mike Anderson is still THE MAN in Denver, and it will take a lot more than a guy with ONE GOOD DRIVE (actually half of a good drive) to unseat him.

 

[Paper Lions]

And again, Shanny might have thought that Dayne was a better fit for the offense at the time...

OK, now we are getting somewhere. That MAY have been the reason. Good.

...but if he did, it was only because Anderson was injured...

Yep, that MAY have been it.

... and had used up his carry allotment.

Crap. Back to square one.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

I think your post is articulated very well except this point. What in yesterday's game, and with Shanny's past, tells you that Anderson is the unquestioned starter? If anything I think Shanny's past would tell us he will go with the "hot" back. In this particular game the arguement could be made that was Dayne.

Like he went with the "hot back" last season, when he kept Griffin as the starter until game 5?

Give me one example of Shanny pulling the plug on an RB because the other RB was hotter for one game (actually, one half of one quarter of one game. In reality, two-thirds of one drive in one half of one quarter of one game).

Sorry, I don't recall saying ONE GAME. If anything I think you prove my point. Q's preformance started to decay and eventually MA took over. All I'm saying is that Shanny will pull a back that is not preforming for someone who is. You admit yourself that Dayne will start to receive carries. If memory serves me, is that not how Q lost his job last year? His play began to decline, especially fumbles, and eventually MA began to get carries, only to take the starting job.

 

[Paper Lions]

I think your post is articulated very well except this point. What in yesterday's game, and with Shanny's past, tells you that Anderson is the unquestioned starter? If anything I think Shanny's past would tell us he will go with the "hot" back. In this particular game the arguement could be made that was Dayne.

Like he went with the "hot back" last season, when he kept Griffin as the starter until game 5?

Give me one example of Shanny pulling the plug on an RB because the other RB was hotter for one game (actually, one half of one quarter of one game. In reality, two-thirds of one drive in one half of one quarter of one game).

Sorry, I don't recall saying ONE GAME. If anything I think you prove my point. Q's preformance started to decay and eventually MA took over. All I'm saying is that Shanny will pull a back that is not preforming for someone who is. You admit yourself that Dayne will start to receive carries. If memory serves me, is that not how Q lost his job last year? His play began to decline, especially fumbles, and eventually MA began to get carries, only to take the starting job.

You mean Droughns, no?

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

Jordan got 59, not 39 yards rushing vs. the Chiefs.  Still not overwhelming, but 20 yards is 20 yards.

Not to mention he had a 56 yard TD run called back because of a holding that had no bearing on the play. It probably should have been called but the fact is KC defense gave up that long run as well.

Last time I checked, the reason they call holding penalties is because they have an impact on the play. Also the last time I checked the yardage and TDs after penalties do not count. Chiefs run D is average/above average this year. I don't think Denver has a field day against them.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

I think your post is articulated very well except this point. What in yesterday's game, and with Shanny's past, tells you that Anderson is the unquestioned starter? If anything I think Shanny's past would tell us he will go with the "hot" back. In this particular game the arguement could be made that was Dayne.

Like he went with the "hot back" last season, when he kept Griffin as the starter until game 5?

Give me one example of Shanny pulling the plug on an RB because the other RB was hotter for one game (actually, one half of one quarter of one game. In reality, two-thirds of one drive in one half of one quarter of one game).

Sorry, I don't recall saying ONE GAME. If anything I think you prove my point. Q's preformance started to decay and eventually Droughns took over. All I'm saying is that Shanny will pull a back that is not preforming for someone who is. You admit yourself that Dayne will start to receive carries. If memory serves me, is that not how Q lost his job last year? His play began to decline, especially fumbles, and eventually MA began to get carries, only to take the starting job.

You mean Droughns, no?

damn, fixed

 

[SSOG]

Sorry, I don't recall saying ONE GAME. If anything I think you prove my point. Q's preformance started to decay and eventually MA took over. All I'm saying is that Shanny will pull a back that is not preforming for someone who is. You admit yourself that Dayne will start to receive carries. If memory serves me, is that not how Q lost his job last year? His play began to decline, especially fumbles, and eventually MA began to get carries, only to take the starting job.

Look, people are looking at Ron Dayne having ONE GOOD DRIVE (half of a drive) and are ready to say he's going to win the starting job from Mike Anderson. I'm saying that Quentin Griffin had THREE STRAIGHT HORRIBLE GAMES before he relinquished the starting RB role, and Anderson hasn't really had a bad game yet, because of the injury. I'm saying it's WAAAAAAY too early to start saying that Dayne is even SNIFFING the starting job. He has earned himself the #2 job, yes, and the #2 in Denver will get some carries. If, 4 or 5 weeks from now he has CONSISTANTLY outperformed Anderson on those carries- and I'm not talking about one drive in one game, but CONSISTANTLY outperforming Anderson- then we'll start talking about whether Dayne will get a sniff of the RB1 job.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

Sorry, I don't recall saying ONE GAME. If anything I think you prove my point. Q's preformance started to decay and eventually MA took over. All I'm saying is that Shanny will pull a back that is not preforming for someone who is. You admit yourself that Dayne will start to receive carries. If memory serves me, is that not how Q lost his job last year? His play began to decline, especially fumbles, and eventually MA began to get carries, only to take the starting job.

Look, people are looking at Ron Dayne having ONE GOOD DRIVE (half of a drive) and are ready to say he's going to win the starting job from Mike Anderson. I'm saying that Quentin Griffin had THREE STRAIGHT HORRIBLE GAMES before he relinquished the starting RB role, and Anderson hasn't really had a bad game yet, because of the injury. I'm saying it's WAAAAAAY too early to start saying that Dayne is even SNIFFING the starting job. He has earned himself the #2 job, yes, and the #2 in Denver will get some carries. If, 4 or 5 weeks from now he has CONSISTANTLY outperformed Anderson on those carries- and I'm not talking about one drive in one game, but CONSISTANTLY outperforming Anderson- then we'll start talking about whether Dayne will get a sniff of the RB1 job.

Dayne=majority of week 3 carries? probably not. We agree here. Where we seem to differ is the opinion that MA will get multiple opportunities to underpreform. Yes underpreform. A post game interview saying he was on a carry count, with Shanny of all people, holds no water with me. He was pulled, IMO (which means nothing), for ineffectivness. The next couple of weeks will tell

 

[Paper Lions]

Look, people are looking at Ron Dayne having ONE GOOD DRIVE (half of a drive) and are ready to say he's going to win the starting job from Mike Anderson...

I don't think most people are saying that. Most people seem to be saying that picking up Dayne and stashing him in case might not be a bad play.

...I'm saying it's WAAAAAAY too early to start saying that Dayne is even SNIFFING the starting job....

Not sure about that. We know Anderson is banged up and it certainly appears Dayne is doing the things he needs to do. I agree with you that Anderson is #1 still, but I wouldn't be nearly as comfortable as you are if I owned him.

.... then we'll start talking about whether Dayne will get a sniff of the RB1 job.

We've already started talking about this. See here.