Don't thank God for that touchdown... (1 Viewer)

[j3r3m3y]

I think many of the antics pulled by TO were over the top and stupid.

Thats the attitude that leads to flags being thrown for a kid throwing the ball in the air after scoring a TD. Let the players celebrate.Period

So you also believe there should be no limit to the celebration? Because that is what the "period." implies.And the person you responded to cut off the part of my post where I said I disagreed with TO being penalized on Sunday. I think the NFL has gone too far, but I also feel it is a reaction to players, TO in particular, going too far first.

 

[Phil Elliott]

I think a "moment of silence" would have been acceptable.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Because it's showing off, in the same way Owens and others show off. Player A does some act to show off himself, Player B kneels in prayer to show off his religion. Players can kneel or sprint or whatever just fine on their sideline.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care if players celebrate however they want. But if some celebrations and banned then they all need to be banned. The last thing we need is special exceptions for special celebrations.

Praying is showing off?

Who says they are PRAYING? How do you know they aren't honoring a Grandfather or other relative that passed away?Please don't confuse this with "Kurt Warner interview syndrome".......I may be "spiritual", but he annoys the CRAP out of me when he tries to twist everything into "Jesus helped me throw that TD pass". Somebody said it before, I don't think Jesus would be a huge fan of football.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that people are greatful to God for everything good in their lives? If you believe God created you, then you believe he gave you your abilities than you believe he helped you throw a TD, because he made the arm that threw the ball. He helped and a Christian believes that, as God, he deserves some recognition.Why does this bother people so? It seems to be some disconnect where you think he is saying that God helped him and didn't help others. He is not saying that. In fact the opposite, that ALL players are helped by God who gave them their physical skills. I've met Kurt and seen him on a regular basis (several years ago). He's a genuine guy and he genuinely believes he is where he is, doing what he is doing because God helped him both in creating his body with its physical skills and in his attitude which are what has gotten him where he is. He feels obligated to give honor and credit to God. Sorry that bothers you, but that's why he does it. Simply to recognize that God helped him. Not to say thanks for that other team or player losing/not doing well. Kurt still thanks God when he struggles, it just doesn't make it on camera because no one interviews him then.

I respect Kurt Warner and I agree with 95% of what you said. I just think that Kurt tries "too hard" to give God credit by saying it over and over...it can be more of a stumbling block to those that don't know God and are turned off by hyper charismatic type folks. Thank God, and then answer the reporters questions like a normal person would rather than trying to preach a sermon in a 2 minute interview. It turns people off and does more harm than good.

Good point.

I normally don't think religion and football are all that interrelated but since it does seem on topic I would like to point out what the big Guy has to say about it:Matthew 6:5-6

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

I am a person of faith, don't get me wrong but making a public scene of praying for thanks for a touchdown seems like a no-no to me.

 

[Scooby1974]

Because it's showing off, in the same way Owens and others show off. Player A does some act to show off himself, Player B kneels in prayer to show off his religion. Players can kneel or sprint or whatever just fine on their sideline.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care if players celebrate however they want. But if some celebrations and banned then they all need to be banned. The last thing we need is special exceptions for special celebrations.

Praying is showing off?

Who says they are PRAYING? How do you know they aren't honoring a Grandfather or other relative that passed away?Please don't confuse this with "Kurt Warner interview syndrome".......I may be "spiritual", but he annoys the CRAP out of me when he tries to twist everything into "Jesus helped me throw that TD pass". Somebody said it before, I don't think Jesus would be a huge fan of football.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that people are greatful to God for everything good in their lives? If you believe God created you, then you believe he gave you your abilities than you believe he helped you throw a TD, because he made the arm that threw the ball. He helped and a Christian believes that, as God, he deserves some recognition.Why does this bother people so? It seems to be some disconnect where you think he is saying that God helped him and didn't help others. He is not saying that. In fact the opposite, that ALL players are helped by God who gave them their physical skills. I've met Kurt and seen him on a regular basis (several years ago). He's a genuine guy and he genuinely believes he is where he is, doing what he is doing because God helped him both in creating his body with its physical skills and in his attitude which are what has gotten him where he is. He feels obligated to give honor and credit to God. Sorry that bothers you, but that's why he does it. Simply to recognize that God helped him. Not to say thanks for that other team or player losing/not doing well. Kurt still thanks God when he struggles, it just doesn't make it on camera because no one interviews him then.

I respect Kurt Warner and I agree with 95% of what you said. I just think that Kurt tries "too hard" to give God credit by saying it over and over...it can be more of a stumbling block to those that don't know God and are turned off by hyper charismatic type folks. Thank God, and then answer the reporters questions like a normal person would rather than trying to preach a sermon in a 2 minute interview. It turns people off and does more harm than good.

Good point.

I normally don't think religion and football are all that interrelated but since it does seem on topic I would like to point out what the big Guy has to say about it:Matthew 6:5-6

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

I am a person of faith, don't get me wrong but making a public scene of praying for thanks for a touchdown seems like a no-no to me.

I knew this was coming...CONTEXT PEOPLE...so apparently God doesn't want us praying at weddings and funerals now too? Or for our food in public? Geez Louise!!! When people like Kurt Warner jump up from prayer or end an interview with "So, did you see me praying man?...Did you hear how spiritual I am?"....THEN Jesus will have a problem with them. Jesus was laying the smack down on the Scribes and Pharisees who were outright liars and con-men trying to trap and eventually kill him, not on the true followers of The Way.

 

[j3r3m3y]

I normally don't think religion and football are all that interrelated but since it does seem on topic I would like to point out what the big Guy has to say about it:

Matthew 6:5-6

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

I am a person of faith, don't get me wrong but making a public scene of praying for thanks for a touchdown seems like a no-no to me.

I knew this was coming...CONTEXT PEOPLE...so apparently God doesn't want us praying at weddings and funerals now too? Or for our food in public? Geez Louise!!! When people like Kurt Warner jump up from prayer or end an interview with "So, did you see me praying man?...Did you hear how spiritual I am?"....THEN Jesus will have a problem with them. Jesus was laying the smack down on the Scribes and Pharisees who were outright liars and con-men trying to trap and eventually kill him, not on the true followers of The Way.

I hear what you are saying, but verse 6 is speaking to "true followers of The Way". Kind of hard to refute it, and it is pretty specific. I am not going to tell anyone how to do their thing, but if it were me I would wait till I were on the sideline and I knew the cameras weren't on me, because that is what the man himself said.And in my opinion weddings and funerals aren't "in public". Televised to millions of people is not even a valid comparison.

 

[switz]

Of course after a score, the player could trip, fall to the ground holding his knee, then raise his arms toward heaven, then get up and run off claiming it was a miracle. That could work.

That would be hilarious!

 

[switz]

I normally don't think religion and football are all that interrelated but since it does seem on topic I would like to point out what the big Guy has to say about it:

Matthew 6:5-6

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

I am a person of faith, don't get me wrong but making a public scene of praying for thanks for a touchdown seems like a no-no to me.

I knew this was coming...CONTEXT PEOPLE...so apparently God doesn't want us praying at weddings and funerals now too? Or for our food in public? Geez Louise!!! When people like Kurt Warner jump up from prayer or end an interview with "So, did you see me praying man?...Did you hear how spiritual I am?"....THEN Jesus will have a problem with them. Jesus was laying the smack down on the Scribes and Pharisees who were outright liars and con-men trying to trap and eventually kill him, not on the true followers of The Way.

I hear what you are saying, but verse 6 is speaking to "true followers of The Way". Kind of hard to refute it, and it is pretty specific. I am not going to tell anyone how to do their thing, but if it were me I would wait till I were on the sideline and I knew the cameras weren't on me, because that is what the man himself said.And in my opinion weddings and funerals aren't "in public". Televised to millions of people is not even a valid comparison.

It's not praying in public Jesus condemned there. Read the whole verse... it was the motive "to be seen by men." Jesus was making the point that what you do in private shows more your true faith than any show you put on for people. But he wasn't saying praying in front of people in itself was wrong.BTW - isn't this heading FFA way?

 

[Bri]

do you guys remember Mark Bavaro?

tap tap...this thing on?

 

[fatness]

Because it's showing off, in the same way Owens and others show off. Player A does some act to show off himself, Player B kneels in prayer to show off his religion. Players can kneel or sprint or whatever just fine on their sideline. Don't get me wrong, I don't care if players celebrate however they want. But if some celebrations and banned then they all need to be banned. The last thing we need is special exceptions for special celebrations.

Praying is showing off?

Doing it in public for the express purpose of getting others to see it, yes. It's a form of showboating.

 

[Scooby1974]

Because it's showing off, in the same way Owens and others show off. Player A does some act to show off himself, Player B kneels in prayer to show off his religion. Players can kneel or sprint or whatever just fine on their sideline. Don't get me wrong, I don't care if players celebrate however they want. But if some celebrations and banned then they all need to be banned. The last thing we need is special exceptions for special celebrations.

Praying is showing off?

Doing it in public for the express purpose of getting others to see it, yes. It's a form of showboating.

Wow. Can you please tell us how you assess someone's motives? Do you offer how-to classes or seminars?

 

[Bankerguy]

I normally don't think religion and football are all that interrelated but since it does seem on topic I would like to point out what the big Guy has to say about it:

Matthew 6:5-6

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

I am a person of faith, don't get me wrong but making a public scene of praying for thanks for a touchdown seems like a no-no to me.

I knew this was coming...CONTEXT PEOPLE...so apparently God doesn't want us praying at weddings and funerals now too? Or for our food in public? Geez Louise!!! When people like Kurt Warner jump up from prayer or end an interview with "So, did you see me praying man?...Did you hear how spiritual I am?"....THEN Jesus will have a problem with them. Jesus was laying the smack down on the Scribes and Pharisees who were outright liars and con-men trying to trap and eventually kill him, not on the true followers of The Way.

I hear what you are saying, but verse 6 is speaking to "true followers of The Way". Kind of hard to refute it, and it is pretty specific. I am not going to tell anyone how to do their thing, but if it were me I would wait till I were on the sideline and I knew the cameras weren't on me, because that is what the man himself said.And in my opinion weddings and funerals aren't "in public". Televised to millions of people is not even a valid comparison.

It's not praying in public Jesus condemned there. Read the whole verse... it was the motive "to be seen by men." Jesus was making the point that what you do in private shows more your true faith than any show you put on for people. But he wasn't saying praying in front of people in itself was wrong.BTW - isn't this heading FFA way?

We all hope so.

 

[zed2283]

Mike Perera (sp) said on Total Access today that the one thing he will allow a player to go to the ground for after a TD would be to "praise the Lord" because he (Perera) doesn't want to get struck by lightning.

 

[JamesTheScot]

I think many of you are missing the point.

First, prayer in the end zone isn't a celebration any more than giving a teammate an earnest "thank you" or "good job" is a celebration. You have no idea what the player is praying about when he does this... he could be thanking God for the gift of athletic ability that allowed him to get to the end zone, he could be thanking God for keeping him healthy over the last drive. It's not unusual for Christians to give thanks to God during moments of accomplishment. The point of "real" prayer in the end zone is to glorify and show respect for God, who makes all things possible, during a moment that would normally be associated with individual accomplishment. As a Christian, you aren't supposed to be ashamed of your belief, and that means you should pray when appropriate, no matter who is or isn't watching and no matter what the setting.

Second, I agree that God doesn't care about football, but he cares about football players and everyone who watches football. In fact, football is so beneath him that it's perfectly alright for him to use a game of football for his own purposes. The notion that God has to play by the same "fairness" rules that we hold dear is rather curious. The fact that we are having this discussion, and someone here may be contemplating the role that God plays in the universe could be the very reason God would assist a Christian player in getting into the end zone last Sunday. Football is pretty inconsequential to God, but our souls aren't. Never underestimate how far he will go or what means God will use to reach you.

Third, the rule is pretty stupid. Any player not levitating is touching the ground during his celebration....with his feet.

 

[JamesTheScot]

It's not praying in public Jesus condemned there. Read the whole verse... it was the motive "to be seen by men." Jesus was making the point that what you do in private shows more your true faith than any show you put on for people. But he wasn't saying praying in front of people in itself was wrong.

Well put, Switz.

 

[Glatty]

The number of people who claim to enjoy these pathetic celebrations and claim them to be entertainment explains why all the crap on TV is so popular. Some people are just easily entertained.

whoa.. there's a HUGE difference between a 10 second celebration for something players do only a few times a year (only the best of them in double digits) and an series of 'reality' shows that showcase human stupidity.

 

[Glatty]

I think many of you are missing the point.First, prayer in the end zone isn't a celebration any more than giving a teammate an earnest "thank you" or "good job" is a celebration. You have no idea what the player is praying about when he does this... he could be thanking God for the gift of athletic ability that allowed him to get to the end zone, he could be thanking God for keeping him healthy over the last drive. It's not unusual for Christians to give thanks to God during moments of accomplishment. The point of "real" prayer in the end zone is to glorify and show respect for God, who makes all things possible, during a moment that would normally be associated with individual accomplishment. As a Christian, you aren't supposed to be ashamed of your belief, and that means you should pray when appropriate, no matter who is or isn't watching and no matter what the setting.Second, I agree that God doesn't care about football, but he cares about football players and everyone who watches football. In fact, football is so beneath him that it's perfectly alright for him to use a game of football for his own purposes. The notion that God has to play by the same "fairness" rules that we hold dear is rather curious. The fact that we are having this discussion, and someone here may be contemplating the role that God plays in the universe could be the very reason God would assist a Christian player in getting into the end zone last Sunday. Football is pretty inconsequential to God, but our souls aren't. Never underestimate how far he will go or what means God will use to reach you.Third, the rule is pretty stupid. Any player not levitating is touching the ground during his celebration....with his feet.

it's not about praying, or giving thanks, or honoring those those that passed... it's about whether the league penalizes everyone equally. if they kneel down and touch the ground, they should be penalized (according to the league.. i personally douldn't care less).. but this thread is arguing whether or not that will actually happen.. most people don't think it will.. there will somehow be a grey line in a black and white situation...

 

[JamesTheScot]

I think many of you are missing the point.

First, prayer in the end zone isn't a celebration any more than giving a teammate an earnest "thank you" or "good job" is a celebration. You have no idea what the player is praying about when he does this... he could be thanking God for the gift of athletic ability that allowed him to get to the end zone, he could be thanking God for keeping him healthy over the last drive. It's not unusual for Christians to give thanks to God during moments of accomplishment. The point of "real" prayer in the end zone is to glorify and show respect for God, who makes all things possible, during a moment that would normally be associated with individual accomplishment. As a Christian, you aren't supposed to be ashamed of your belief, and that means you should pray when appropriate, no matter who is or isn't watching and no matter what the setting.

Second, I agree that God doesn't care about football, but he cares about football players and everyone who watches football. In fact, football is so beneath him that it's perfectly alright for him to use a game of football for his own purposes. The notion that God has to play by the same "fairness" rules that we hold dear is rather curious. The fact that we are having this discussion, and someone here may be contemplating the role that God plays in the universe could be the very reason God would assist a Christian player in getting into the end zone last Sunday. Football is pretty inconsequential to God, but our souls aren't. Never underestimate how far he will go or what means God will use to reach you.

Third, the rule is pretty stupid. Any player not levitating is touching the ground during his celebration....with his feet.

it's not about praying, or giving thanks, or honoring those those that passed... it's about whether the league penalizes everyone equally. if they kneel down and touch the ground, they should be penalized (according to the league.. i personally douldn't care less).. but this thread is arguing whether or not that will actually happen.. most people don't think it will.. there will somehow be a grey line in a black and white situation...

I'm not sure if you saw the bolded part of my post. If it's not a celebration, there's no penalty for touching the ground. It's kinda like saying we should treat everyone who takes a life the same. I'd argue that we shouldn't. People acting in self-defense or in defense of others should not be treated the same as we do murderers.In my book, prayer does not = celebration...particularly not the "look at me with a sharpie" variety.

That said, I don't think there should be a rule against celebrating. If we'd just ignore the glory hounds or even send a little ridicule their way, it'd probably get toned down a little bit. Nothings more embarassing than pulling a stunt you think is funny and not having anyone laugh.

 

[General Tso]

I think many of you are missing the point.First, prayer in the end zone isn't a celebration any more than giving a teammate an earnest "thank you" or "good job" is a celebration. You have no idea what the player is praying about when he does this... he could be thanking God for the gift of athletic ability that allowed him to get to the end zone, he could be thanking God for keeping him healthy over the last drive. It's not unusual for Christians to give thanks to God during moments of accomplishment. The point of "real" prayer in the end zone is to glorify and show respect for God, who makes all things possible, during a moment that would normally be associated with individual accomplishment. As a Christian, you aren't supposed to be ashamed of your belief, and that means you should pray when appropriate, no matter who is or isn't watching and no matter what the setting.Second, I agree that God doesn't care about football, but he cares about football players and everyone who watches football. In fact, football is so beneath him that it's perfectly alright for him to use a game of football for his own purposes. The notion that God has to play by the same "fairness" rules that we hold dear is rather curious. The fact that we are having this discussion, and someone here may be contemplating the role that God plays in the universe could be the very reason God would assist a Christian player in getting into the end zone last Sunday. Football is pretty inconsequential to God, but our souls aren't. Never underestimate how far he will go or what means God will use to reach you.Third, the rule is pretty stupid. Any player not levitating is touching the ground during his celebration....with his feet.

it's not about praying, or giving thanks, or honoring those those that passed... it's about whether the league penalizes everyone equally. if they kneel down and touch the ground, they should be penalized (according to the league.. i personally douldn't care less).. but this thread is arguing whether or not that will actually happen.. most people don't think it will.. there will somehow be a grey line in a black and white situation...

Well, it didn't take long to see how the League would react... Plaxico Burress just scored a TD, kneeled to the ground on one knee, and no penalty. Not surprised.... Nobody in the NFL is going to throw a flag on a religious display, whether it breaks the rule or not.

 

[Giantseasonticketholder]

I think many of you are missing the point.First, prayer in the end zone isn't a celebration any more than giving a teammate an earnest "thank you" or "good job" is a celebration. You have no idea what the player is praying about when he does this... he could be thanking God for the gift of athletic ability that allowed him to get to the end zone, he could be thanking God for keeping him healthy over the last drive. It's not unusual for Christians to give thanks to God during moments of accomplishment. The point of "real" prayer in the end zone is to glorify and show respect for God, who makes all things possible, during a moment that would normally be associated with individual accomplishment. As a Christian, you aren't supposed to be ashamed of your belief, and that means you should pray when appropriate, no matter who is or isn't watching and no matter what the setting.Second, I agree that God doesn't care about football, but he cares about football players and everyone who watches football. In fact, football is so beneath him that it's perfectly alright for him to use a game of football for his own purposes. The notion that God has to play by the same "fairness" rules that we hold dear is rather curious. The fact that we are having this discussion, and someone here may be contemplating the role that God plays in the universe could be the very reason God would assist a Christian player in getting into the end zone last Sunday. Football is pretty inconsequential to God, but our souls aren't. Never underestimate how far he will go or what means God will use to reach you.Third, the rule is pretty stupid. Any player not levitating is touching the ground during his celebration....with his feet.

it's not about praying, or giving thanks, or honoring those those that passed... it's about whether the league penalizes everyone equally. if they kneel down and touch the ground, they should be penalized (according to the league.. i personally douldn't care less).. but this thread is arguing whether or not that will actually happen.. most people don't think it will.. there will somehow be a grey line in a black and white situation...

Well, it didn't take long to see how the League would react... Plaxico Burress just scored a TD, kneeled to the ground on one knee, and no penalty. Not surprised.... Nobody in the NFL is going to throw a flag on a religious display, whether it breaks the rule or not.

I'd have to say what Plax did and what TO did are 2 completely different things.

 

[General Tso]

I think many of you are missing the point.First, prayer in the end zone isn't a celebration any more than giving a teammate an earnest "thank you" or "good job" is a celebration. You have no idea what the player is praying about when he does this... he could be thanking God for the gift of athletic ability that allowed him to get to the end zone, he could be thanking God for keeping him healthy over the last drive. It's not unusual for Christians to give thanks to God during moments of accomplishment. The point of "real" prayer in the end zone is to glorify and show respect for God, who makes all things possible, during a moment that would normally be associated with individual accomplishment. As a Christian, you aren't supposed to be ashamed of your belief, and that means you should pray when appropriate, no matter who is or isn't watching and no matter what the setting.Second, I agree that God doesn't care about football, but he cares about football players and everyone who watches football. In fact, football is so beneath him that it's perfectly alright for him to use a game of football for his own purposes. The notion that God has to play by the same "fairness" rules that we hold dear is rather curious. The fact that we are having this discussion, and someone here may be contemplating the role that God plays in the universe could be the very reason God would assist a Christian player in getting into the end zone last Sunday. Football is pretty inconsequential to God, but our souls aren't. Never underestimate how far he will go or what means God will use to reach you.Third, the rule is pretty stupid. Any player not levitating is touching the ground during his celebration....with his feet.

it's not about praying, or giving thanks, or honoring those those that passed... it's about whether the league penalizes everyone equally. if they kneel down and touch the ground, they should be penalized (according to the league.. i personally douldn't care less).. but this thread is arguing whether or not that will actually happen.. most people don't think it will.. there will somehow be a grey line in a black and white situation...

Well, it didn't take long to see how the League would react... Plaxico Burress just scored a TD, kneeled to the ground on one knee, and no penalty. Not surprised.... Nobody in the NFL is going to throw a flag on a religious display, whether it breaks the rule or not.

I'd have to say what Plax did and what TO did are 2 completely different things.

Exactly. But in both cases their knee touched the ground, which is how the rule is written. Then let's call a spade a spade. In the NFL, a celebration is not definable. It's in the eye of the beholder. If it's TO acting like a clown, it's unacceptable showmanship (ie - TO being a "n-word"). If it's someone praising a Christian God with a socially acceptable (ie - what a white man does) practice of kneeling, then no flag - regardless of how the rule is written. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[j3r3m3y]

I think many of you are missing the point.First, prayer in the end zone isn't a celebration any more than giving a teammate an earnest "thank you" or "good job" is a celebration. You have no idea what the player is praying about when he does this... he could be thanking God for the gift of athletic ability that allowed him to get to the end zone, he could be thanking God for keeping him healthy over the last drive. It's not unusual for Christians to give thanks to God during moments of accomplishment. The point of "real" prayer in the end zone is to glorify and show respect for God, who makes all things possible, during a moment that would normally be associated with individual accomplishment. As a Christian, you aren't supposed to be ashamed of your belief, and that means you should pray when appropriate, no matter who is or isn't watching and no matter what the setting.Second, I agree that God doesn't care about football, but he cares about football players and everyone who watches football. In fact, football is so beneath him that it's perfectly alright for him to use a game of football for his own purposes. The notion that God has to play by the same "fairness" rules that we hold dear is rather curious. The fact that we are having this discussion, and someone here may be contemplating the role that God plays in the universe could be the very reason God would assist a Christian player in getting into the end zone last Sunday. Football is pretty inconsequential to God, but our souls aren't. Never underestimate how far he will go or what means God will use to reach you.Third, the rule is pretty stupid. Any player not levitating is touching the ground during his celebration....with his feet.

it's not about praying, or giving thanks, or honoring those those that passed... it's about whether the league penalizes everyone equally. if they kneel down and touch the ground, they should be penalized (according to the league.. i personally douldn't care less).. but this thread is arguing whether or not that will actually happen.. most people don't think it will.. there will somehow be a grey line in a black and white situation...

Well, it didn't take long to see how the League would react... Plaxico Burress just scored a TD, kneeled to the ground on one knee, and no penalty. Not surprised.... Nobody in the NFL is going to throw a flag on a religious display, whether it breaks the rule or not.

I'd have to say what Plax did and what TO did are 2 completely different things.

Exactly. But in both cases their knee touched the ground, which is how the rule is written. Then let's call a spade a spade. In the NFL, a celebration is not definable. It's in the eye of the beholder. If it's TO acting like a clown, it's unacceptable showmanship (ie - TO being a "n-word"). If it's someone praising a Christian God with a socially acceptable (ie - what a white man does) practice of kneeling, then no flag - regardless of how the rule is written. Hypocrisy at its finest.

You really had to bring race into this? Really?And can you quote "the rule", I haven't seen it yet but I would be surprised if it was written to include going to a knee. In TO's case his hands were on the ground, I suspect that might be the difference.

 

[TitusIII]

Some NFL rules are moronic, the celebration rules certainly fall into this group.

 

[Eric]

In this day and age, with reason becoming more and more prevalent, the continuing popularity of religion and faith is nothing short of stunning. While "God" is blessing your favorite NFL players, innocent kids are getting their heads blown off in wars that you are cheering on. Shame on you.

 

[General Tso]

I think many of you are missing the point.First, prayer in the end zone isn't a celebration any more than giving a teammate an earnest "thank you" or "good job" is a celebration. You have no idea what the player is praying about when he does this... he could be thanking God for the gift of athletic ability that allowed him to get to the end zone, he could be thanking God for keeping him healthy over the last drive. It's not unusual for Christians to give thanks to God during moments of accomplishment. The point of "real" prayer in the end zone is to glorify and show respect for God, who makes all things possible, during a moment that would normally be associated with individual accomplishment. As a Christian, you aren't supposed to be ashamed of your belief, and that means you should pray when appropriate, no matter who is or isn't watching and no matter what the setting.Second, I agree that God doesn't care about football, but he cares about football players and everyone who watches football. In fact, football is so beneath him that it's perfectly alright for him to use a game of football for his own purposes. The notion that God has to play by the same "fairness" rules that we hold dear is rather curious. The fact that we are having this discussion, and someone here may be contemplating the role that God plays in the universe could be the very reason God ld assist a Christian player in getting into the end zone last Sunday. Football is pretty inconsequential to God, but our souls aren't. Never underestimate how far he will go or what means God will use to reach you.Third, the rule is pretty stupid. Any player not levitating is touching the ground during his celebration....with his feet.

it's not about praying, or giving thanks, or honoring those those that passed... it's about whether the league penalizes everyone equally. if they kneel down and touch the ground, they should be penalized (according to the league.. i personally douldn't care less).. but this thread is arguing whether or not that will actually happen.. most people don't think it will.. there will somehow be a grey line in a black and white situation...

Well, it didn't take long to see how the League would react... Plaxico Burress just scored a TD, kneeled to the ground on one knee, and no penalty. Not surprised.... Nobody in the NFL is going to throw a flag on a religious display, whether it breaks the rule or not.

I'd have to say what Plax did and what TO did are 2 completely different things.

Exactly. But in both cases their knee touched the ground, which is how the rule is written. Then let's call a spade a spade. In the NFL, a celebration is not definable. It's in the eye of the beholder. If it's TO acting like a clown, it's unacceptable showmanship (ie - TO being a "n-word"). If it's someone praising a Christian God with a socially acceptable (ie - what a white man does) practice of kneeling, then no flag - regardless of how the rule is written. Hypocrisy at its finest.

You really had to bring race into this? Really?And can you quote "the rule", I haven't seen it yet but I would be surprised if it was written to include going to a knee. In TO's case his hands were on the ground, I suspect that might be the difference.

I hate bringing race into this. I really do. I hate when people do it and I find myself doing it here. But how can you deny that there isn't a racial component to this? The "look at me" celebrations are generally considered a black thing, and the white power base really doesn't like it. How can you see it any other way? Particularly when they so conveniently disregard what is clearly a rules violation (knee touching ground) if it has something to do with what is regarded as a religious observation accepted by the white majority? Once again, I hate the race card, but in this instance the facts are the facts - and it seems like the NFL's rules are catering to a white Christian bias.

 

[j3r3m3y]

I hate bringing race into this. I really do. I hate when people do it and I find myself doing it here. But how can you deny that there isn't a racial component to this? The "look at me" celebrations are generally considered a black thing, and the white power base really doesn't like it. How can you see it any other way? Particularly when they so conveniently disregard what is clearly a rules violation (knee touching ground) if it has something to do with what is regarded as a religious observation accepted by the white majority? Once again, I hate the race card, but in this instance the facts are the facts - and it seems like the NFL's rules are catering to a white Christian bias.

I have never thought of it that way. I do agree that there may be some racism here though...

 

[Eric]

I hate bringing race into this. I really do. I hate when people do it and I find myself doing it here. But how can you deny that there isn't a racial component to this? The "look at me" celebrations are generally considered a black thing, and the white power base really doesn't like it. How can you see it any other way? Particularly when they so conveniently disregard what is clearly a rules violation (knee touching ground) if it has something to do with what is regarded as a religious observation accepted by the white majority? Once again, I hate the race card, but in this instance the facts are the facts - and it seems like the NFL's rules are catering to a white Christian bias.

I have never thought of it that way. I do agree that there may be some racism here though...

It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture.

 

[General Tso]

I hate bringing race into this. I really do. I hate when people do it and I find myself doing it here. But how can you deny that there isn't a racial component to this? The "look at me" celebrations are generally considered a black thing, and the white power base really doesn't like it. How can you see it any other way? Particularly when they so conveniently disregard what is clearly a rules violation (knee touching ground) if it has something to do with what is regarded as a religious observation accepted by the white majority? Once again, I hate the race card, but in this instance the facts are the facts - and it seems like the NFL's rules are catering to a white Christian bias.

I have never thought of it that way. I do agree that there may be some racism here though...

It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture.

Culture = Race. At least it is perceived that way by the bulk of society in 2008 America. Yes, there are "white boys" who grow up in a black dominated area and tend to celebrate and pump their chests out, but by and large it is considered a "black thing". Once again, I don't think the white power base is doing this to intentionally screw black people, but if I were a black person it wouldn't at all be unreasonable for me to see things differently.

 

[Eric]

I hate bringing race into this. I really do. I hate when people do it and I find myself doing it here. But how can you deny that there isn't a racial component to this? The "look at me" celebrations are generally considered a black thing, and the white power base really doesn't like it. How can you see it any other way? Particularly when they so conveniently disregard what is clearly a rules violation (knee touching ground) if it has something to do with what is regarded as a religious observation accepted by the white majority? Once again, I hate the race card, but in this instance the facts are the facts - and it seems like the NFL's rules are catering to a white Christian bias.

I have never thought of it that way. I do agree that there may be some racism here though...

It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture.

Culture = Race.

Race is to culture the same way that orange is to color. Racism is what happens when people can't separate the two.

 

[JamesTheScot]

In this day and age, with reason becoming more and more prevalent, the continuing popularity of religion and faith is nothing short of stunning. While "God" is blessing your favorite NFL players, innocent kids are getting their heads blown off in wars that you are cheering on. Shame on you.

If religion continues in popularity while reason becomes more prevalent, there might be a "reasonable" explanation......that the two aren't mutually exclusive or antithetical to each other.If you can't see that, maybe you don't have as good a handle on "reason" as you think you do.

 

[Short Corner]

I must be missing the point somewhere. Who cares who they credit for their touchdowns. They can thank their pet goldfish for all I care. What does it matter?If it bothers you if they thank God, you should probably ask yourself why it bothers you so much.Me?...I thank God it's football season. Oops, did I just upset you?

:reported:

 

[JamesTheScot]

Exactly. But in both cases their knee touched the ground, which is how the rule is written. Then let's call a spade a spade. In the NFL, a celebration is not definable. It's in the eye of the beholder. If it's TO acting like a clown, it's unacceptable showmanship (ie - TO being a "n-word"). If it's someone praising a Christian God with a socially acceptable (ie - what a white man does) practice of kneeling, then no flag - regardless of how the rule is written. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Saying a prayer to your God is an introverted exercise no matter who sees you do it. By definition it's no more a "celebration" than would be thanking your O line for the good blocking by spoken word or a hand shake or back slap. As hard as it may be to believe, people who are Christians believe they have a personal relationship with God and they can talk to him directly - the same as they can you or I. Appearing to pray so that other see you and take notice isn't the same thing, it's extroverted.When teammates congratulate each other spontaneously after a TD, it's a communication between them no matter how many people see it happen.When teammates or a single player perform an action after a TD for the purpose of being seen by the crowd, it's an extroverted exercise intended for the eyes of others.The NFL doesn't want extroverted celebrations and tries to suppress them. No mystery. No conspiracy. No racism.It requires a judgment call on the part of an official to differentiate between the two. But that doesn't mean they are one and the same.