Dr. Gobbler welched out on his bet from year ago in this thread (1 Viewer)

[StrikeS2k]

No I did not. I was pointing out that they had enough salary flexibility to sign useful players rather than having to resort to scrap heap minimum vets because they don't have an inordinate amount of money tied up in one or two guys. I don't see how it's possible to have a competitive roster when one guy accounts for 1/4 to 3/5ths of your cap space. You haven't convinced me otherwise at any point - heck you haven't even addressed that. Tell me how you realistically construct a championship roster with one player making $30M - I don't care who that player is.

The Bulls won two championships with Michael Jordan making 30+ million a year.

 

[timschochet]

This will all sort itself out. Right now Kobe remains one of the elite players in all of basketball. I believe he will maintain that for the next 2-3 years, and while he does, and the Lakers have a combination of either Gasol and Bynum or Dwight Howard and others around him, they will be relevant and in the hunt for another title.

When Kobe's skills erode he will renegotiate or retire. He will not hold the team up. Kobe is too much of a competitor for that. And he is a generally great guy who cares about the long term success of the Lakers' franchise. This I believe.

 

[the moops]

When Kobe's skills erode he will renegotiate or retire. He will not hold the team up. Kobe is too much of a competitor for that. And he is a generally great guy who cares about the long term success of the Lakers' franchise. This I believe.

 

[Gr00vus]

No I did not. I was pointing out that they had enough salary flexibility to sign useful players rather than having to resort to scrap heap minimum vets because they don't have an inordinate amount of money tied up in one or two guys. I don't see how it's possible to have a competitive roster when one guy accounts for 1/4 to 3/5ths of your cap space. You haven't convinced me otherwise at any point - heck you haven't even addressed that. Tell me how you realistically construct a championship roster with one player making $30M - I don't care who that player is.

The Bulls won two championships with Michael Jordan making 30+ million a year.

You forgot the realistically part. Unless expecting another Jordan is realistic - we'd have to disagree there. Also, what was the salary cap situation back then - was it similar to what's in place now?

 

[StrikeS2k]

No I did not. I was pointing out that they had enough salary flexibility to sign useful players rather than having to resort to scrap heap minimum vets because they don't have an inordinate amount of money tied up in one or two guys. I don't see how it's possible to have a competitive roster when one guy accounts for 1/4 to 3/5ths of your cap space. You haven't convinced me otherwise at any point - heck you haven't even addressed that. Tell me how you realistically construct a championship roster with one player making $30M - I don't care who that player is.

The Bulls won two championships with Michael Jordan making 30+ million a year.

You forgot the realistically part. Unless expecting another Jordan is realistic - we'd have to disagree there. Also, what was the salary cap situation back then - was it similar to what's in place now?

Well, I'm not familiar with the new CBA. However, when Kobe signed his contract it was pretty much the same except with a smaller cap so 30 million then is probably the equivalent of 35-40 now. The same years Jordan was earning 30 million plus Scottie Pippen was earning less than 3. My recollection of the situation is that the Bulls were basically rewarding Jordan for being underpaid in previous years by overpaying him. I'm sure they were over the cap. Either way, they realistically produced a championship caliber team with a player earning 30 million a year. How do I know it was realistic? Well, because they won not one but two championships. That's pretty much the definition of realistic. Or maybe you shouldn't have said "I don't care who the player is" as you seem to be backtracking on that now.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

When Kobe's skills erode he will renegotiate or retire. He will not hold the team up. Kobe is too much of a competitor for that. And he is a generally great guy who cares about the long term success of the Lakers' franchise. This I believe.

Priceless

 

[Gr00vus]

No I did not. I was pointing out that they had enough salary flexibility to sign useful players rather than having to resort to scrap heap minimum vets because they don't have an inordinate amount of money tied up in one or two guys. I don't see how it's possible to have a competitive roster when one guy accounts for 1/4 to 3/5ths of your cap space. You haven't convinced me otherwise at any point - heck you haven't even addressed that. Tell me how you realistically construct a championship roster with one player making $30M - I don't care who that player is.

The Bulls won two championships with Michael Jordan making 30+ million a year.

You forgot the realistically part. Unless expecting another Jordan is realistic - we'd have to disagree there. Also, what was the salary cap situation back then - was it similar to what's in place now?

Well, I'm not familiar with the new CBA. However, when Kobe signed his contract it was pretty much the same except with a smaller cap so 30 million then is probably the equivalent of 35-40 now. The same years Jordan was earning 30 million plus Scottie Pippen was earning less than 3. My recollection of the situation is that the Bulls were basically rewarding Jordan for being underpaid in previous years by overpaying him. I'm sure they were over the cap. Either way, they realistically produced a championship caliber team with a player earning 30 million a year. How do I know it was realistic? Well, because they won not one but two championships. That's pretty much the definition of realistic. Or maybe you shouldn't have said "I don't care who the player is" as you seem to be backtracking on that now.

I'm not backtracking. Go ahead and identify the "Michael Jordan" to pay $30M to under today's salary cap/luxury tax structure right now, LeBron's probably your best bet. Now show me how to build the rest of the team around him and his $30M deal. You're going to find another "Scottie Pippen" for $3M? That's realistic in today's environment? Maybe if you're that wealthy Russian guy and don't really care about paying a 3x luxury tax. Did they have a 3x luxury tax back when Jordan was playing? I'm pretty sure they didn't, but I'd love to be corrected if you've got that info. Otherwise expecting it all to work out now (which is what I'm talking about, not 1995) that way - pretty much the definition of unrealistic.Just more examples of why people hate Laker fans going on here I guess.

 

[StrikeS2k]

No I did not. I was pointing out that they had enough salary flexibility to sign useful players rather than having to resort to scrap heap minimum vets because they don't have an inordinate amount of money tied up in one or two guys. I don't see how it's possible to have a competitive roster when one guy accounts for 1/4 to 3/5ths of your cap space. You haven't convinced me otherwise at any point - heck you haven't even addressed that. Tell me how you realistically construct a championship roster with one player making $30M - I don't care who that player is.

The Bulls won two championships with Michael Jordan making 30+ million a year.

You forgot the realistically part. Unless expecting another Jordan is realistic - we'd have to disagree there. Also, what was the salary cap situation back then - was it similar to what's in place now?

Well, I'm not familiar with the new CBA. However, when Kobe signed his contract it was pretty much the same except with a smaller cap so 30 million then is probably the equivalent of 35-40 now. The same years Jordan was earning 30 million plus Scottie Pippen was earning less than 3. My recollection of the situation is that the Bulls were basically rewarding Jordan for being underpaid in previous years by overpaying him. I'm sure they were over the cap. Either way, they realistically produced a championship caliber team with a player earning 30 million a year. How do I know it was realistic? Well, because they won not one but two championships. That's pretty much the definition of realistic. Or maybe you shouldn't have said "I don't care who the player is" as you seem to be backtracking on that now.

I'm not backtracking. Go ahead and identify the "Michael Jordan" to pay $30M to under today's salary cap/luxury tax structure right now, LeBron's probably your best bet. Now show me how to build the rest of the team around him and his $30M deal. You're going to find another "Scottie Pippen" for $3M? That's realistic in today's environment? Maybe if you're that wealthy Russian guy and don't really care about paying a 3x luxury tax. Did they have a 3x luxury tax back when Jordan was playing? I'm pretty sure they didn't, but I'd love to be corrected if you've got that info. Otherwise expecting it all to work out now (which is what I'm talking about, not 1995) that way - pretty much the definition of unrealistic.Just more examples of why people hate Laker fans going on here I guess.

You said "I don't care who that player is." Well, Jordan did it at a time when 30 million would be closer to 40 million. I'm not going to argue with you over it. Your statement was:

Tell me how you realistically construct a championship roster with one player making $30M - I don't care who that player is.

I've already told you how you realistically construct that team. Game over.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Was there even a cap prior to 1999?

 

[StrikeS2k]

Was there even a cap prior to 1999?

The current nba salary cap era started in the 84-85 season so yes, long before the time we're discussing there was a salary cap.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Was there even a cap prior to 1999?

The current nba salary cap era started in the 84-85 season so yes, long before the time we're discussing there was a salary cap.

Jordan's salary was actually more than the salary cap. Jordan made $30,140,000 in 96-97 with a cap of $24.363M and in 97-98 $33,140,000 with a cap of $26.9M. The rules were obviously very different then.

 

[Shrugs]

So.... Kobe out 2-4 weeks with a wrist sprain? Not playing against the Clippers and doubtful for Xmas.First 5 games without Bynum and possibly Kobe...Anyone else want to bet me that the Lakers finish with a better record than the Clippers?

You must not know much about Kobe.

I know all about Kobe I also know about shooting wrist sprains.

Your bet might be looking good but you're not looking so good here. You know all about Kobe, yet you still didn't know.

Kobe is a warrior no doubt but he shot 10 for 24 last night. That's not great and Stu even mentioned last night that Kobe is having trouble snapping that wrist which is going to make him less accurate. Everybody with a little bit of NBA I.Q. knows they aren't going to win the first few games, why not rest him? Also I'm yet to see Kobe hit that gear that he WAS so famous for.

This was predictable. There was no doubt that he would play through the injury and that it would affect his play in some ways just like the finger injuries have, but that he would still be Kobe out there for the most part. You said he's out 2-4 weeks, that he's doubtful for the opener and could miss the first five games. Everyone who knows Kobe knew that this wouldn't happen. You said that you did know Kobe, but you were too cocky to see the obvious.

 

[the moops]

The Lakers can very well be a championship caliber team with Kobe making 30 million dollars in 2013/2014.

It will take some trading and such, but if they turn Gasol's 19 million dollar slot into a younger, better max, or near max player, and Bynum becomes the player all Laker fans think he already is.

There is little difference between Kobe making 25 million or 30 million because of the soft cap. The Lakers will be well over the cap for many, many years into the future.

 

[Gr00vus]

The Lakers can very well be a championship caliber team with Kobe making 30 million dollars in 2013/2014.

It will take some trading and such, but if they turn Gasol's 19 million dollar slot into a younger, better max, or near max player, and Bynum becomes the player all Laker fans think he already is.

There is little difference between Kobe making 25 million or 30 million because of the soft cap. The Lakers will be well over the cap for many, many years into the future.

I think within two years they'll be close to it. Once Kobe's contract expires they'll be under it.

 

[Gr00vus]

No I did not. I was pointing out that they had enough salary flexibility to sign useful players rather than having to resort to scrap heap minimum vets because they don't have an inordinate amount of money tied up in one or two guys. I don't see how it's possible to have a competitive roster when one guy accounts for 1/4 to 3/5ths of your cap space. You haven't convinced me otherwise at any point - heck you haven't even addressed that. Tell me how you realistically construct a championship roster with one player making $30M - I don't care who that player is.

The Bulls won two championships with Michael Jordan making 30+ million a year.

You forgot the realistically part. Unless expecting another Jordan is realistic - we'd have to disagree there. Also, what was the salary cap situation back then - was it similar to what's in place now?

Well, I'm not familiar with the new CBA. However, when Kobe signed his contract it was pretty much the same except with a smaller cap so 30 million then is probably the equivalent of 35-40 now. The same years Jordan was earning 30 million plus Scottie Pippen was earning less than 3. My recollection of the situation is that the Bulls were basically rewarding Jordan for being underpaid in previous years by overpaying him. I'm sure they were over the cap. Either way, they realistically produced a championship caliber team with a player earning 30 million a year. How do I know it was realistic? Well, because they won not one but two championships. That's pretty much the definition of realistic. Or maybe you shouldn't have said "I don't care who the player is" as you seem to be backtracking on that now.

I'm not backtracking. Go ahead and identify the "Michael Jordan" to pay $30M to under today's salary cap/luxury tax structure right now, LeBron's probably your best bet. Now show me how to build the rest of the team around him and his $30M deal. You're going to find another "Scottie Pippen" for $3M? That's realistic in today's environment? Maybe if you're that wealthy Russian guy and don't really care about paying a 3x luxury tax. Did they have a 3x luxury tax back when Jordan was playing? I'm pretty sure they didn't, but I'd love to be corrected if you've got that info. Otherwise expecting it all to work out now (which is what I'm talking about, not 1995) that way - pretty much the definition of unrealistic.Just more examples of why people hate Laker fans going on here I guess.

You said "I don't care who that player is." Well, Jordan did it at a time when 30 million would be closer to 40 million. I'm not going to argue with you over it. Your statement was:

Tell me how you realistically construct a championship roster with one player making $30M - I don't care who that player is.

I've already told you how you realistically construct that team. Game over.

O.k. captain semantics you did it, for 1994. Here's your hollow, meaningless, missing the point trophy. Now do it under today's salary cap and luxury tax rules - which was clearly the context I was making my statements under.

 

[drummer]

This will all sort itself out. Right now Kobe remains one of the elite players in all of basketball. I believe he will maintain that for the next 2-3 years, and while he does, and the Lakers have a combination of either Gasol and Bynum or Dwight Howard and others around him, they will be relevant and in the hunt for another title.When Kobe's skills erode he will renegotiate or retire. He will not hold the team up. Kobe is too much of a competitor for that. And he is a generally great guy who cares about the long term success of the Lakers' franchise. This I believe.

This thread is about the Lakers, not about you. Try to remember that.

 

[StrikeS2k]

No I did not. I was pointing out that they had enough salary flexibility to sign useful players rather than having to resort to scrap heap minimum vets because they don't have an inordinate amount of money tied up in one or two guys. I don't see how it's possible to have a competitive roster when one guy accounts for 1/4 to 3/5ths of your cap space. You haven't convinced me otherwise at any point - heck you haven't even addressed that. Tell me how you realistically construct a championship roster with one player making $30M - I don't care who that player is.

The Bulls won two championships with Michael Jordan making 30+ million a year.

You forgot the realistically part. Unless expecting another Jordan is realistic - we'd have to disagree there. Also, what was the salary cap situation back then - was it similar to what's in place now?

Well, I'm not familiar with the new CBA. However, when Kobe signed his contract it was pretty much the same except with a smaller cap so 30 million then is probably the equivalent of 35-40 now. The same years Jordan was earning 30 million plus Scottie Pippen was earning less than 3. My recollection of the situation is that the Bulls were basically rewarding Jordan for being underpaid in previous years by overpaying him. I'm sure they were over the cap. Either way, they realistically produced a championship caliber team with a player earning 30 million a year. How do I know it was realistic? Well, because they won not one but two championships. That's pretty much the definition of realistic. Or maybe you shouldn't have said "I don't care who the player is" as you seem to be backtracking on that now.

I'm not backtracking. Go ahead and identify the "Michael Jordan" to pay $30M to under today's salary cap/luxury tax structure right now, LeBron's probably your best bet. Now show me how to build the rest of the team around him and his $30M deal. You're going to find another "Scottie Pippen" for $3M? That's realistic in today's environment? Maybe if you're that wealthy Russian guy and don't really care about paying a 3x luxury tax. Did they have a 3x luxury tax back when Jordan was playing? I'm pretty sure they didn't, but I'd love to be corrected if you've got that info. Otherwise expecting it all to work out now (which is what I'm talking about, not 1995) that way - pretty much the definition of unrealistic.Just more examples of why people hate Laker fans going on here I guess.

You said "I don't care who that player is." Well, Jordan did it at a time when 30 million would be closer to 40 million. I'm not going to argue with you over it. Your statement was:

Tell me how you realistically construct a championship roster with one player making $30M - I don't care who that player is.

I've already told you how you realistically construct that team. Game over.

O.k. captain semantics you did it, for 1994. Here's your hollow, meaningless, missing the point trophy. Now do it under today's salary cap and luxury tax rules - which was clearly the context I was making my statements under.

Jordan made 3.8 million in 1994.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Was there even a cap prior to 1999?

The current nba salary cap era started in the 84-85 season so yes, long before the time we're discussing there was a salary cap.

Jordan's salary was actually more than the salary cap. Jordan made $30,140,000 in 96-97 with a cap of $24.363M and in 97-98 $33,140,000 with a cap of $26.9M. The rules were obviously very different then.

Yeah, you could go way over with the Larry Bird rule...which has since been heavily revised.

 

[JMon348]

I refuse to believe Jerry Buss is really giving orders to shed salary so he can avoid paying more and more luxury tax. Looking back and looking forward it makes no sense. He has always paid the premium for top talent, and he just signed one of the largest TV deals in sports history. It's impossible. Kobe making 30 million vs what he is making now doesn't really effect player movement because we are going to be way over the cap with Gasol, Odom, and Bynum's slots. We just need to fill and refill those slots with top talent. Right now we have the hole of 7. whatever million that is Odom's trade exemption, that can be filled by another player making that money. If we move Pau we will have a top player taking his slot of whatever he makes, same with Bynum.

Groovus, if we were able to pull off the Paul trade. Then turn around and do the Bynum+extra for Howard deal, we would have the best PG and the best center around Kobe, while he is making his 30 million. It can be done, it will get done somehow.

As for this current crop, I'm really liking what I see out of McRoberts, Ebanks, and Murphy. When Drew comes back, we will have a nice 4 man big rotation. I love Lamar, and even though he's struggling now, he will eventually be a important player for Dallas. With that said maybe the downgrade from Odom to McRoberts/Murphy isn't as dramatic as we thought.

Steve Blake and MWP look much improved from last year, I think getting out of the triangle was big for both players. Fish has obviously slowed down, everyone knows PG is where are problem lies. This team still needs an infusion of talent/energy, but I think I see a light at the end of the tunnel. I trust Mitch.

Like I said this is going to be an enjoyable season because we have no expectations. I still think its a transition season, as we build Kobe 3.0's team.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Was there even a cap prior to 1999?

The current nba salary cap era started in the 84-85 season so yes, long before the time we're discussing there was a salary cap.

Jordan's salary was actually more than the salary cap. Jordan made $30,140,000 in 96-97 with a cap of $24.363M and in 97-98 $33,140,000 with a cap of $26.9M. The rules were obviously very different then.

Yeah, you could go way over with the Larry Bird rule...which has since been heavily revised.

Of course. But the point is that you can have a guy making bank and still build a team around him, if he's good enough. As noted, Jordan's salary exceeded the salary cap at that time by himself. So Kobe making 30 million NOW is more like Jordan making 15 million then. So, even adjusting for the newer salary cap rules it's very possible to have a championship caliber team with a guy making 30 million. And Kobe won't be making 30 million for another couple of years. If revenues go up the salary cap will as well. Under any scenario Groovus' statement is wrong.

 

[StrikeS2k]

I refuse to believe Jerry Buss is really giving orders to shed salary so he can avoid paying more and more luxury tax. Looking back and looking forward it makes no sense. He has always paid the premium for top talent, and he just signed one of the largest TV deals in sports history. It's impossible. Kobe making 30 million vs what he is making now doesn't really effect player movement because we are going to be way over the cap with Gasol, Odom, and Bynum's slots. We just need to fill and refill those slots with top talent. Right now we have the hole of 7. whatever million that is Odom's trade exemption, that can be filled by another player making that money. If we move Pau we will have a top player taking his slot of whatever he makes, same with Bynum.Groovus, if we were able to pull off the Paul trade. Then turn around and do the Bynum+extra for Howard deal, we would have the best PG and the best center around Kobe, while he is making his 30 million. It can be done, it will get done somehow. As for this current crop, I'm really liking what I see out of McRoberts, Ebanks, and Murphy. When Drew comes back, we will have a nice 4 man big rotation. I love Lamar, and even though he's struggling now, he will eventually be a important player for Dallas. With that said maybe the downgrade from Odom to McRoberts/Murphy isn't as dramatic as we thought.Steve Blake and MWP look much improved from last year, I think getting out of the triangle was big for both players. Fish has obviously slowed down, everyone knows PG is where are problem lies. This team still needs an infusion of talent/energy, but I think I see a light at the end of the tunnel. I trust Mitch.Like I said this is going to be an enjoyable season because we have no expectations. I still think its a transition season, as we build Kobe 3.0's team.

 

[Gr00vus]

Was there even a cap prior to 1999?

The current nba salary cap era started in the 84-85 season so yes, long before the time we're discussing there was a salary cap.

Jordan's salary was actually more than the salary cap. Jordan made $30,140,000 in 96-97 with a cap of $24.363M and in 97-98 $33,140,000 with a cap of $26.9M. The rules were obviously very different then.

Yeah, you could go way over with the Larry Bird rule...which has since been heavily revised.

Of course. But the point is that you can have a guy making bank and still build a team around him, if he's good enough. As noted, Jordan's salary exceeded the salary cap at that time by himself. So Kobe making 30 million NOW is more like Jordan making 15 million then. So, even adjusting for the newer salary cap rules it's very possible to have a championship caliber team with a guy making 30 million. And Kobe won't be making 30 million for another couple of years. If revenues go up the salary cap will as well. Under any scenario Groovus' statement is wrong.

No, you've totally missed the point. Again.

 

[timschochet]

This will all sort itself out. Right now Kobe remains one of the elite players in all of basketball. I believe he will maintain that for the next 2-3 years, and while he does, and the Lakers have a combination of either Gasol and Bynum or Dwight Howard and others around him, they will be relevant and in the hunt for another title.When Kobe's skills erode he will renegotiate or retire. He will not hold the team up. Kobe is too much of a competitor for that. And he is a generally great guy who cares about the long term success of the Lakers' franchise. This I believe.

This thread is about the Lakers, not about you. Try to remember that.

I didn't realize I was Kobe.I wish I was Kobe.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Isn't the rule now that you cannot sign free agents that put you over the cap save for using the mid-level exemption? So if Kobe's $30M combined with other current Lakers heavy contracts put them over the cap by a certain amount, it doesn't matter how big of a TV contract the Lakers have or how much Buss is willing to spend on luxary tax because they simply are not allowed to sign a big-ticket contract, right?

 

[JMon348]

And that 16 year pro, who people said is done. Only Melo, Durant, and Lebron are averaging more points. Also averaging 7 rebounds and 6 assists.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Isn't the rule now that you cannot sign free agents that put you over the cap save for using the mid-level exemption? So if Kobe's $30M combined with other current Lakers heavy contracts put them over the cap by a certain amount, it doesn't matter how big of a TV contract the Lakers have or how much Buss is willing to spend on luxary tax because they simply are not allowed to sign a big-ticket contract, right?

The Lakers can't sign a big ticket player as long as they have Gasol, Kobe, and Bynum. It would take a trade or a sign and trade for them to get a big money player.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Was there even a cap prior to 1999?

The current nba salary cap era started in the 84-85 season so yes, long before the time we're discussing there was a salary cap.

Jordan's salary was actually more than the salary cap. Jordan made $30,140,000 in 96-97 with a cap of $24.363M and in 97-98 $33,140,000 with a cap of $26.9M. The rules were obviously very different then.

Yeah, you could go way over with the Larry Bird rule...which has since been heavily revised.

Of course. But the point is that you can have a guy making bank and still build a team around him, if he's good enough. As noted, Jordan's salary exceeded the salary cap at that time by himself. So Kobe making 30 million NOW is more like Jordan making 15 million then. So, even adjusting for the newer salary cap rules it's very possible to have a championship caliber team with a guy making 30 million. And Kobe won't be making 30 million for another couple of years. If revenues go up the salary cap will as well. Under any scenario Groovus' statement is wrong.

No, you've totally missed the point. Again.

Really? Please spell it out for me then. I thought your point was that it would be impossible to build a championship caliber team with a player earning 30 million. And I proved you wrong, both as of 1999 and today. Otherwise, please make your point more clear, because to me it sounds like you're just trying to save face.

 

[Gr00vus]

Really? Please spell it out for me then. I thought your point was that it would be impossible to build a championship caliber team with a player earning 30 million.

Yes, I'm saying it'd be pretty tough to build a championship quality roster with one guy making $30M under this new CBA.

And I proved you wrong.

No, you didn't. Haven't even come close actually. Discussing this with you is kinda a waste of time since you're not bringing any rational points to the table. Please continue talking about what Jordan made in 1997 though if that makes you feel better even though it's irrelevant to what I've been talking about the entire time.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Really? Please spell it out for me then. I thought your point was that it would be impossible to build a championship caliber team with a player earning 30 million.

Yes, I'm saying it'd be pretty tough to build a championship quality roster with one guy making $30M under this new CBA.

No you didn't.

 

[Gr00vus]

Really? Please spell it out for me then. I thought your point was that it would be impossible to build a championship caliber team with a player earning 30 million.

Yes, I'm saying it'd be pretty tough to build a championship quality roster with one guy making $30M under this new CBA.

No you didn't.

Yeah, that was the context of my entire conversation from the get go. Why the #### would I be talking about 16 years ago in relation to the Lakers' current contract situation? You can't seriously be that dense.

 

[the moops]

I'm really liking what I see out of McRoberts, Ebanks, and Murphy.

You are perhaps the only one.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Really? Please spell it out for me then. I thought your point was that it would be impossible to build a championship caliber team with a player earning 30 million.

Yes, I'm saying it'd be pretty tough to build a championship quality roster with one guy making $30M under this new CBA.

No you didn't.

Yeah, that was the context of my entire conversation from the get go. Why the #### would I be talking about 16 years ago in relation to the Lakers' current contract situation? You can't seriously be that dense.

Sorry, I just looked back through your posts and don't see you mention the new CBA anywhere. Anyways, here is the roster of the Bulls championship team the first year Jordan made 30 mil:1 Michael Jordan $30,140,000

2 Dennis Rodman $9,000,000

3 Toni Kukoc $3,960,000

4 Ron Harper $3,840,000

5 Luc Longley $2,790,000

6 Scottie Pippen $2,250,000

7 Randy Brown $1,300,000

8 Dickey Simpkins $1,040,000

9 Robert Parish $1,000,000

10 Bill Wennington $1,000,000

11 Steve Kerr $750,000

12 Jason Caffey $700,000

13 Jud Buechler $500,000

You really gonna tell me no one could put together a comparable team with current players and stay within a reasonable level of the current salary cap, even with one player earning 30 million? Come on.

 

[StrikeS2k]

I'm really liking what I see out of McRoberts, Ebanks, and Murphy.

You are perhaps the only one.

McRoberts and Murphy contributed 17 rebounds and pretty solid defense last night. They constitute a very good backup big guy rotation. Not great without Bynum but when he's back I'm pretty happy with them as the backups.

 

[Dr. Gobbler]

Wow! The Lakers beat a #20 ranked college team last night and the optimism returns. Knicks are going to destroy them tomorrow!

 

[Gr00vus]

You really gonna tell me no one could put together a comparable team with current players and stay within a reasonable level of the current salary cap, even with one player earning 30 million? Come on.

Give me a realistic scenario where that happens given the current CBA. Not what happened 15 years ago when Jordan got $30M, but in today's NBA, right now under the current CBA. Doesn't even have to be Kobe, take whatever current player you want, give him a $30M deal and go from there, clean slate even (unlike the Lakers' current situation with all the other contracts they're responsible for). Use the current cap of $58M.

 

[the moops]

I'm really liking what I see out of McRoberts, Ebanks, and Murphy.

You are perhaps the only one.

McRoberts and Murphy contributed 17 rebounds and pretty solid defense last night. They constitute a very good backup big guy rotation. Not great without Bynum but when he's back I'm pretty happy with them as the backups.

Murphy is done as a basketball player. Done. He is perhaps the worst defensive 4/5 in the league (too slow to cover PFs and too much of a ##### to cover Cs). I had hopes for him last year when the Celtics picked him up. He shouldnt be getting any minutes on any playoff team.McRoberts is a decent 4th or 5th big guy. The fact that he is starting now, and soon to be the first big off the bench for the Lakers does not bode well.

 

[Gr00vus]

Murphy is done as a basketball player. Done. He is perhaps the worst defensive 4/5 in the league (too slow to cover PFs and too much of a ##### to cover Cs).

Murphy's actually looked better than I expected. Guy is busting his ### out there for sure, and he's mixing it up to get boards, which the Lakers definitely need. He got abused on D by Griffin, but that's going to happen to plenty of guys who get stuck trying to cover him with no help. What's missing right now is his shot, I expected more from him there, but maybe it'll come around. I think he'll earn his keep as long as he stays healthy.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Kobe is too much of a competitor for that. And he is a generally great guy who cares about the long term success of the Lakers' franchise.

And that 16 year pro, who people said is done. Only Melo, Durant, and Lebron are averaging more points. Also averaging 7 rebounds and 6 assists.

He'll definitely keep this up all year.

I'm really liking what I see out of McRoberts, Ebanks, and Murphy.

You are perhaps the only one.

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[StrikeS2k]

You really gonna tell me no one could put together a comparable team with current players and stay within a reasonable level of the current salary cap, even with one player earning 30 million? Come on.

Give me a realistic scenario where that happens given the current CBA. Not what happened 15 years ago when Jordan got $30M, but in today's NBA, right now under the current CBA. Doesn't even have to be Kobe, take whatever current player you want, give him a $30M deal and go from there, clean slate even (unlike the Lakers' current situation with all the other contracts they're responsible for). Use the current cap of $58M.

The Lakers could do it with Kobe. I think you're writing him off a little too soon. Not that I think he's gonna be a 30 million dollar guy in a couple of years. I don't think Jordan was either. They're getting the lifetime achievement salary. But that doesn't mean they can't build a championship team around him. I'm not gonna speculate on players. Who knows who's gonna be available or develop in the next couple of years? However, had the Lakers been able to pull off the CP3 and Howard deals they were working on, and I suspect that all might have worked out if not for the meddling of the commish, you'd be calling this team championship caliber with him earning 25 mil. Given that, it's pretty obvious it COULD be done. Will it? Who knows. But it surely can.

 

[Gr00vus]

You really gonna tell me no one could put together a comparable team with current players and stay within a reasonable level of the current salary cap, even with one player earning 30 million? Come on.

Give me a realistic scenario where that happens given the current CBA. Not what happened 15 years ago when Jordan got $30M, but in today's NBA, right now under the current CBA. Doesn't even have to be Kobe, take whatever current player you want, give him a $30M deal and go from there, clean slate even (unlike the Lakers' current situation with all the other contracts they're responsible for). Use the current cap of $58M.

The Lakers could do it with Kobe. I think you're writing him off a little too soon. Not that I think he's gonna be a 30 million dollar guy in a couple of years. I don't think Jordan was either. They're getting the lifetime achievement salary. But that doesn't mean they can't build a championship team around him. I'm not gonna speculate on players. Who knows who's gonna be available or develop in the next couple of years? However, had the Lakers been able to pull off the CP3 and Howard deals they were working on, and I suspect that all might have worked out if not for the meddling of the commish, you'd be calling this team championship caliber with him earning 25 mil. Given that, it's pretty obvious it COULD be done. Will it? Who knows. But it surely can.

Maybe you're right. I still find it unlikely. I'm not even sure how the Howard thing would have happened in the aftermath of the unvetoed Paul deal. Lots of moving parts there, including fitting everything under cap/trade constraints.

 

[drummer]

Kobe is too much of a competitor for that. And he is a generally great guy who cares about the long term success of the Lakers' franchise.

And that 16 year pro, who people said is done. Only Melo, Durant, and Lebron are averaging more points. Also averaging 7 rebounds and 6 assists.

He'll definitely keep this up all year.

I'm really liking what I see out of McRoberts, Ebanks, and Murphy.

You are perhaps the only one.

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving.

SKribbles and moops Never seen posters hang like these two fruit.

 

[drummer]

You really gonna tell me no one could put together a comparable team with current players and stay within a reasonable level of the current salary cap, even with one player earning 30 million? Come on.

Give me a realistic scenario where that happens given the current CBA. Not what happened 15 years ago when Jordan got $30M, but in today's NBA, right now under the current CBA. Doesn't even have to be Kobe, take whatever current player you want, give him a $30M deal and go from there, clean slate even (unlike the Lakers' current situation with all the other contracts they're responsible for). Use the current cap of $58M.

The Lakers could do it with Kobe. I think you're writing him off a little too soon. Not that I think he's gonna be a 30 million dollar guy in a couple of years. I don't think Jordan was either. They're getting the lifetime achievement salary. But that doesn't mean they can't build a championship team around him. I'm not gonna speculate on players. Who knows who's gonna be available or develop in the next couple of years? However, had the Lakers been able to pull off the CP3 and Howard deals they were working on, and I suspect that all might have worked out if not for the meddling of the commish, you'd be calling this team championship caliber with him earning 25 mil. Given that, it's pretty obvious it COULD be done. Will it? Who knows. But it surely can.

Maybe you're right. I still find it unlikely. I'm not even sure how the Howard thing would have happened in the aftermath of the unvetoed Paul deal. Lots of moving parts there, including fitting everything under cap/trade constraints.

They just need to find a way to get Howard, find a way to get rid of Walton and Fisher, find a PG who can guard, and get a set new set of gonads for Gasol. The impossible part is Gasol.

 

[Gr00vus]

They just need to find a way to get Howard, find a way to get rid of Walton and Fisher, find a PG who can guard, and get a set new set of gonads for Gasol. The impossible part is Gasol.

I love it when a plan comes together.

 

[EYLive]

Kobe is too much of a competitor for that. And he is a generally great guy who cares about the long term success of the Lakers' franchise.

And that 16 year pro, who people said is done. Only Melo, Durant, and Lebron are averaging more points. Also averaging 7 rebounds and 6 assists.

He'll definitely keep this up all year.

I'm really liking what I see out of McRoberts, Ebanks, and Murphy.

You are perhaps the only one.

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving.

SKribbles and moops Never seen posters hang like these two fruit.

Well, you really do need to humor the anglers so that they feel good about themselves. No sense hurting feelings of well respected posters.

 

[EYLive]

I'm really liking what I see out of McRoberts, Ebanks, and Murphy.

You are perhaps the only one.

NO WAY!! They're above average defenders and have a lot of offensive upside. I'm a Laker fan and you're really pissing me off! ####### #####

 

[DaveGrumbles]

Wow...this whole Kobe salary thing really went off the rails.

Look, everytime the Lakers look like a 2nd round & out team, the fans go into panic mode. Remember that throughout the Buss era, the team has consistently rebuilt through trade of solid vets for younger studs or picks. The Shaq signing was a rarity in using free agency and they had to endure a Randy Pfund sandwich and the Elden Campbell era in order to get to that point. Basically all the cap talk is meaningless...the best teams will always be seriously over cap and will always have to get creative to keep talent on the team. They do not go the normal 'slash roster, stock up on lotto picks while clearing max space to sign some guy that will save the franchise 5 years from now' route. They have an expectation of competing deep into the playoffs year in and year out (plus they count on the home playoff games to generate serious money)

They have TPEs from the Odom deal(and probably from the Sasha deal last year) which allow them to bring back lots of salary in trade. Gasol can still be used to grab either a high pick and a vet or a couple young guys. The Lakers didn't get the trade exceptions for nothing. The key is that Kupchak has to always turn that value before it rots. Right now Gasol is at that horizon point where he is more valuable to us as trade bait then as a player.

Something will get done sooner than later.

 

[Gr00vus]

Basically all the cap talk is meaningless...the best teams will always be seriously over cap and will always have to get creative to keep talent on the team.

I don't think it is. Cuban has already made moves to get under or near the new cap, Buss will do the same. The smart owners are going to follow suit. Have you looked at the new cap rules? It gets ugly when you go over $10M for one season - if you do that for more than one season it gets even worse. It's nothing like it was before. You stick yourself with big deals you're going to run your franchise into the ground. I don't see teams going above the $10M tax threshold much, if at all.For instance, you take the Lakers' salaries as they stand right now ($84,987,096) and apply the rules that will kick in in 13/14 - they'd owe $94,695,158 in luxury tax in addition to the actual salaries. There's no way teams are going to do that. Those days of going well over the cap will be gone. You're dreaming if you think that's going to continue.Also, Kupchak has already gone on record saying he doesn't think he'll use the Sasha exception before it expires.

 

[DaveGrumbles]

Basically all the cap talk is meaningless...the best teams will always be seriously over cap and will always have to get creative to keep talent on the team.

I don't think it is. Cuban has already made moves to get under or near the new cap, Buss will do the same. The smart owners are going to follow suit. Have you looked at the new cap rules? It gets ugly when you go over $10M for one season - if you do that for more than one season it gets even worse. It's nothing like it was before. You stick yourself with big deals you're going to run your franchise into the ground. I don't see teams going above the $10M tax threshold much, if at all.For instance, you take the Lakers' salaries as they stand right now ($84,987,096) and apply the rules that will kick in in 13/14 - they'd owe $94,695,158 in luxury tax in addition to the actual salaries. There's no way teams are going to do that. Those days of going well over the cap will be gone. You're dreaming if you think that's going to continue.Also, Kupchak has already gone on record saying he doesn't think he'll use the Sasha exception before it expires.

You could be right. I happen to believe that when it comes down to it. Those type of owners (Buss, Cuban, etc) will still choose to put the best possible team on the floor versus saving the cash. Remaining competitive helps offset some of that as well. As stated that home playoff money can bring a decent chunk of change for owners. I think you're right about the Sasha deal. Those TPEs have a one year expiration and I couldn't remember if Sasha got dealt last Jan or in Dec.

 

[bryhamm]

Really? Please spell it out for me then. I thought your point was that it would be impossible to build a championship caliber team with a player earning 30 million.

Yes, I'm saying it'd be pretty tough to build a championship quality roster with one guy making $30M under this new CBA.

No you didn't.

Yeah, that was the context of my entire conversation from the get go. Why the #### would I be talking about 16 years ago in relation to the Lakers' current contract situation? You can't seriously be that dense.

Sorry, I just looked back through your posts and don't see you mention the new CBA anywhere. Anyways, here is the roster of the Bulls championship team the first year Jordan made 30 mil:1 Michael Jordan $30,140,000

2 Dennis Rodman $9,000,000

3 Toni Kukoc $3,960,000

4 Ron Harper $3,840,000

5 Luc Longley $2,790,000

6 Scottie Pippen $2,250,000

7 Randy Brown $1,300,000

8 Dickey Simpkins $1,040,000

9 Robert Parish $1,000,000

10 Bill Wennington $1,000,000

11 Steve Kerr $750,000

12 Jason Caffey $700,000

13 Jud Buechler $500,000

You really gonna tell me no one could put together a comparable team with current players and stay within a reasonable level of the current salary cap, even with one player earning 30 million? Come on.

No, you really can't put together a comparable team and the main reason is because of Pippen only making 2.25mm. Pau would be the equivalent of Pippen and you can't get someone with that much talent for that cheap of price.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

You guys need to pick it up in here. NBA thread running away with the crazy.