Draft pick trading issue in keeper league (1 Viewer)

[Slash N' Roses]

I have one guy in my league that if he feels he has no shot at the playoffs, he will fire sale his team for next season draft pick. Its a friendly league but there is a small amount of dough on the line. We are set up to play all teams once with two games set depending on standings at that time. So the issue is a competitive one. Teams that play him early in the year play a more competitive team compared to the teams that play him late. For the most part he isn't just giving players away for nothing but there is a discounted price tag. He just gives up to early and it rubs some teams the wrong way.

I've tried moving the trade date back in hopes that it passes before he feels his team is out of contention. Cons of that are obviously not as many weeks to trade. I've tried talking to him and explaining to him the impact he is having on the competitive integrity of the league.

Would be great to hear how you guys handles draft pick trades in your leagues. And an thoughts on this topic.

...........He lost week one and i can already see that look in his eye. Help!

 

[AcerFC]

If you allow trading of draft picks then you have to allow owners to trade commodities any way they see fit.

This happens all the time in our league. Guy bailed week 1 last year and traded Dez for a first rounder.

The competitive thing happens in any league where trading is involved. Just the luck of the draw. Although, I dont quite get your last two weeks but it sounds like something you have been rolling with

 

[Hankmoody]

This is a natural result of keeper/dynasty leagues. Week 1 is early to bail, obviously, but when owners have a crappy team it's a great way for them to stay engaged and have fun. You can be 0-5 and having a blast trying to make moves to get better next year.

It does create a ton of imbalances - whoever he trades Charles to will be loaded this year, and he'll be loaded next year, so in both cases 10 other owners are getting hosed. Be prepared for that argument, and the only response is "this is a natural result of keeper leagues like this, step up and trade with him (or someone else)". The reality is that teams will probably be very hesitant to give too much "next year" for a shot this year. Just in case, make sure you have something in place preventing a dump and run. You said it's a friendly league, so hopefully that wouldn't happen, but it would suck to have one guy trade out his first and second for Julio and then leave the league next year. Maybe make them pre-pay, or take their dog as collateral.

You could strike a happy medium only allowing owners to acquire limited future picks, maybe one per owner or something. One league I'm has points for picks:

1st - 100

2nd - 80

3rd - 60

4th - 50

etc. You can't go below 300 total points in that league. So if you trade your 1st you can't trade anything else. If you trade your 1st but get a 2nd back, you could trade a 2nd later on,etc.

 

[oldmanhawkins]

I'm in a similar league where fire sales are common. It's actually the most fun league that I am a part of because of all the trades - but we have a few things in place so that it doesn't get out of hand.

-Early trade deadline: You must decide by week 9 if you are in or out, buying or selling.

-Draft pick limitations: You cannot acquire more than two picks in round one or round two of the next years' draft. So if I have Jamal Charles/Andrew Luck but I can't compete, I might trade them for a 1st & 2nd next year. But I won't be able to get much more of an advantage than that by trading other players. So if I also had Travis Kelce and wanted to trade him, the best I could get would be a 3rd - and at that point Kelce's keeper value might outweigh the pick I was getting in return.

-League fee rules: If you are trading future 1st or 2nd rounders you have to pay the league fee for that year up front, before the trade will get processed. Pulling $200 out of your pocket to make a trade is a pretty good deterrent.

-Sportsmanship: Starting valid & competitive lineups every week whether you are playing for 2015 or 2016.

We also had considered a rule about posting a player's availability if you plan to trade them for a draft pick. Also considered a rule were low score pays high score $10 or $20 each week. We have not instituted it because it hasn't been necessary.

Every year some team tries to buy the championship and it goes awry in epic fashion. The best approach has proven to be to play for the year you are in without mortgaging the future. Trade a 5th rounder for an underperforming player with a nice playoff schedule instead of a 1st rounder for a stud that might get hurt/cool off.

 

[Slash N' Roses]

The trading it self isn't the problem. Its he sells off all players he can if they can't be kept by him. If he was demanding 1st round picks that would be fine. But in some cases you could get a starting RB for a 8th to 10th rd pick.

As far as our schedule thing. You play yahoo generated schedule. In weeks 3 and 13 the schedule is adjusted based on standings. Team in 1st place plays team in 2nd place and so on. Use those weeks cause teams are at full strength. Helps to balance out schedule so its not just random who the two teams would be that you would play twice.

 

[Funkley]

During the playoffs, the non-playoff teams compete as usual with the winner getting the 1st overall pick next year, runner up #2 and so on. Keeps teams from fully tanking because they will have no shot at winning the losers bracket.

 

[Slash N' Roses]

Thanks for the responses. This helps to hear. I only hear the complaining from other owners so I guess I lost some perspective on the matter. Yes, for the most part it hasn't benefited anyone as far as a title. So I guess I can sleep better now.

 

[ThatsAllFolks]

A few years ago we had a guy that started the trend of gutted his team for picks and most everyone got a little ticked, especially when the guy that got some good players for picks, lost, and did not come back the next year = New owner is screwed.

When this happens, not only do you have to compete against a guy that is stacking his team with studs (without losing any depth), but you have to contend with a guy next year with all of those picks! It is a no win situation x 2.

As commish, i decided to address this the following year.

This has nothing to do with the picks, but will show the layout of our league. We can keep up 3 players. If you keep less then 3 you get first crack at filling your first 3 positions (in order of draft position).

So in our case the fist 3 rounds are protected and those picks cannot be traded...(but the following may work for any league with some tweaks).

For trading draft picks we have moved it to a Tiered system.

You can only trade 1 or acquire 1 from Tier 1 (Rounds 4-6). You can only trade 1 or acquire 1 from Tier 2 (rounds 7-10). You CAN trade for or acquire as many Tier 3 picks as you want (rounds 11-18)

Seems to have kept the league pretty square and balanced for a few years now. You can still make some moves to grab some picks if you are out of contention while others can grab some studs for picks without upsetting the balance of the league.

 

[Slash N' Roses]

During the playoffs, the non-playoff teams compete as usual with the winner getting the 1st overall pick next year, runner up #2 and so on. Keeps teams from fully tanking because they will have no shot at winning the losers bracket.

We do similar thing. Loser bowl winner can pick his draft slot. Nice if you have 1st rd keeper you can pick from the 6th slot(12 team league) and get that better 2nd rd pick.

 

[Slash N' Roses]

During the playoffs, the non-playoff teams compete as usual with the winner getting the 1st overall pick next year, runner up #2 and so on. Keeps teams from fully tanking because they will have no shot at winning the losers bracket.

We do similar thing. Loser bowl winner can pick his draft slot. Nice if you have 1st rd keeper you can pick from the 6th slot(12 team league) and get that better 2nd rd pick.

 

[LittlePhatty]

The trading it self isn't the problem. Its he sells off all players he can if they can't be kept by him. If he was demanding 1st round picks that would be fine. But in some cases you could get a starting RB for a 8th to 10th rd pick.

You have to wonder why he plays at all then. 10th round picks in a keeper league is getting close to waiver wire fodder territory, so he's not getting anything in return. There's no motivation there except to help the other team (possible collusion). I would tell him that if he keeps dumping off players for cheap like that then he won't be invited back next year.Also, any team giving up a draft pick next year should be required to front next year's entry fee before the trade goes through, no refunds.

 

[Slash N' Roses]

A few years ago we had a guy that started the trend of gutted his team for picks and most everyone got a little ticked, especially when the guy that got some good players for picks, lost, and did not come back the next year = New owner is screwed.

When this happens, not only do you have to compete against a guy that is stacking his team with studs (without losing any depth), but you have to contend with a guy next year with all of those picks! It is a no win situation x 2.

As commish, i decided to address this the following year.

This has nothing to do with the picks, but will show the layout of our league. We can keep up 3 players. If you keep less then 3 you get first crack at filling your first 3 positions (in order of draft position).

So in our case the fist 3 rounds are protected and those picks cannot be traded...(but the following may work for any league with some tweaks).

For trading draft picks we have moved it to a Tiered system.

You can only trade 1 or acquire 1 from Tier 1 (Rounds 4-6). You can only trade 1 or acquire 1 from Tier 2 (rounds 7-10). You CAN trade for or acquire as many Tier 3 picks as you want (rounds 11-18)

Seems to have kept the league pretty square and balanced for a few years now. You can still make some moves to grab some picks if you are out of contention while others can grab some studs for picks without upsetting the balance of the league.

I like that. How do you handle keeper player? Our system is 1 offensive player from any round can be kept for one year in the round they were drafted. Same for 1 defensive player. 2 players (offensive or defensive) from the 6th round or later can be kept for two years in the round they were drafted. Then we have a keeper extension for one of the 2 player keepers. That is you can keep one for one additional year but they get a third round tender. So your tier system would need some tweaking to work for us. But i like the idea of it.

 

[Slash N' Roses]

The trading it self isn't the problem. Its he sells off all players he can if they can't be kept by him. If he was demanding 1st round picks that would be fine. But in some cases you could get a starting RB for a 8th to 10th rd pick.

You have to wonder why he plays at all then. 10th round picks in a keeper league is getting close to waiver wire fodder territory, so he's not getting anything in return. There's no motivation there except to help the other team (possible collusion). I would tell him that if he keeps dumping off players for cheap like that then he won't be invited back next year.Also, any team giving up a draft pick next year should be required to front next year's entry fee before the trade goes through, no refunds.

Hes not colluding, Yeah I don't know why he plays. He drafts well. Has good knowledge. But can't manage a team for spit.

 

[ThatsAllFolks]

Our keeper system is much more simple, Slash. You can keep any player as long as you want.

You can keep up to 3 but a max of only 1 per position - eg...you cannot keep 2 RB's but you can keep 1 QB, 1 RB and 1 WR if you want - or Keep no one..

if you keep less than 3 then you can have first dibs at the players being thrown back into the draft. Once 3 rounds are filled, then the real draft begins.

(The guy that finished last, kept no one. He started by getting Peterson, Calvin and Brees with his 1st 3 picks. He did not get the first 3 picks as other teams also kept less than 3 so they were grabbing players when their turns came up)

The way you have it set up it might be hard to stick to a tiered system like ours.

 

[LittlePhatty]

For what it's worth, lots of leagues have "that guy", especially if you play with friends. It's just a real world type of thing. Last year in my keeper keague one owner traded away a bunch of early picks to get the 3 top WRs, and it still didn't help him. He came in 4th. This year he was stuck with a crappy draft because of it. There's no guaranteed win, even for those getting the stud players in return. So for the most part, there's a good argument for "just let it happen" and it should all work itself out.

I would at least ask him straight up as to why he doesn't ask for higher round draft picks. After reading your keeper rules, I can see that picks from the 6th round or later get a bump in value, because that's where you'd want to target potential breakout guys that can be kept. Maybe that's his strategy.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

You are the commish not a baby sitter.

Let owners dig their own graves and make their own trades.

The weak get weeded out. Natural selection works. Owners get better or you take their money.

 

[Slash N' Roses]

You are the commish not a baby sitter.

Let owners dig their own graves and make their own trades.

The weak get weeded out. Natural selection works. Owners get better or you take their money.

I don't have a problem with taking his money. Its when i go into work. I just get hounded with complaints from other league guys.

Like I said earlier this is good therapy. I just lost some perspective that this how things go.

 

[dagwood]

You are the commish not a baby sitter.

Let owners dig their own graves and make their own trades.

The weak get weeded out. Natural selection works. Owners get better or you take their money.

I don't have a problem with taking his money. Its when i go into work. I just get hounded with complaints from other league guys.

Like I said earlier this is good therapy. I just lost some perspective that this how things go.

Just tell the complaining owners to man up. If they don't like keeper leagues, they can sign up for any number of free redraft leagues.

 

[Slash N' Roses]

Our keeper system is much more simple, Slash. You can keep any player as long as you want.

You can keep up to 3 but a max of only 1 per position - eg...you cannot keep 2 RB's but you can keep 1 QB, 1 RB and 1 WR if you want - or Keep no one..

if you keep less than 3 then you can have first dibs at the players being thrown back into the draft. Once 3 rounds are filled, then the real draft begins.

(The guy that finished last, kept no one. He started by getting Peterson, Calvin and Brees with his 1st 3 picks. He did not get the first 3 picks as other teams also kept less than 3 so they were grabbing players when their turns came up)

The way you have it set up it might be hard to stick to a tiered system like ours.

For what it's worth, lots of leagues have "that guy", especially if you play with friends. It's just a real world type of thing. Last year in my keeper keague one owner traded away a bunch of early picks to get the 3 top WRs, and it still didn't help him. He came in 4th. This year he was stuck with a crappy draft because of it. There's no guaranteed win, even for those getting the stud players in return. So for the most part, there's a good argument for "just let it happen" and it should all work itself out.

I would at least ask him straight up as to why he doesn't ask for higher round draft picks. After reading your keeper rules, I can see that picks from the 6th round or later get a bump in value, because that's where you'd want to target potential breakout guys that can be kept. Maybe that's his strategy.

Yeah with our rules those late round finds can be huge for a couple years. We use to do it like your league Folks.I came up with our way to keep some top tier talent in the first couple rounds of the draft.

 

[Slash N' Roses]

You are the commish not a baby sitter.

Let owners dig their own graves and make their own trades.

The weak get weeded out. Natural selection works. Owners get better or you take their money.

I don't have a problem with taking his money. Its when i go into work. I just get hounded with complaints from other league guys.

Like I said earlier this is good therapy. I just lost some perspective that this how things go.

Just tell the complaining owners to man up. If they don't like keeper leagues, they can sign up for any number of free redraft leagues.

I would like to but we been a league for fourteen years now and 9 out of the 12 have been in for minimum of 7 years. 5 are lifers. Plus its the only way I see two of my old friend every year.

 

[dagwood]

You are the commish not a baby sitter.

Let owners dig their own graves and make their own trades.

The weak get weeded out. Natural selection works. Owners get better or you take their money.

I don't have a problem with taking his money. Its when i go into work. I just get hounded with complaints from other league guys.

Like I said earlier this is good therapy. I just lost some perspective that this how things go.

Just tell the complaining owners to man up. If they don't like keeper leagues, they can sign up for any number of free redraft leagues.

I would like to but we been a league for fourteen years now and 9 out of the 12 have been in for minimum of 7 years. 5 are lifers. Plus its the only way I see two of my old friend every year.

then they should understand what a keeper league; and maybe they continue complain because you have never told them to stop.

 

[dagwood]

The guy who is selling off his guys for picks is doing it the right way and should be celebrated. He gets it. The others are the ones who don't get it.

 

[Ironman2131]

This is an occasional issue in my keeper league (I'm the commissioner) and some owners love the trading while others hate that teams can basically buy a championship. I'm on the fence, so I've kicked around some ideas in the past but we've never actually voted on them. Before I list the rules, we can keep up to four players and the cost is a draft pick two rounds prior to where they were drafted the previous year (so, in essence, top players can't be kept because they were early picks). Also, players can only be kept twice.

1. Players who cannot be kept cannot be traded for future picks (this applies to any 1st or 2nd round pick, or anyone who has already been kept twice, like LeVeon Bell this season)

Basically, this rule would prevent a fire-sale and gutting the roster for the current season. There's a workaround, in that you can trade players for other players who can be kept, then trade those guys, but at that point you might be giving up keeper value, so there's more of a trade-off.

2. Teams cannot trade future 1st or 2nd round picks.

This rule would work to limit the incentive for teams trading players, as it doesn't make much sense to trade an Antonio Brown if all you can get back is a 3rd round pick (in our league, 3rd rounders are more like 5th rounders because of the keepers).

In general, I think the first rule is too restrictive on trading, but the second rule has some merit by making sure that every team maintains its first two picks the following season. Otherwise, we risk someone taking trading to the extreme and throwing away alternate seasons to have a stronger team every other year. I'm not completely opposed to this strategy as a means of winning, but as commissioner I feel that this reduces the fun of the league for all involved, including the participating team, and we're all in this for fun (and a little money, but mostly fun).

Again, neither rule has actually be put up for vote, but every year around the trade deadline there is some clamoring for a way to stop some of the deals that get done.

 

[LittlePhatty]

Ironman - I really like rule #1, and think that would be a great modification to my main league. Persoanlly I'd skip #2 though. Trading high picks is fine with me, and I think that would discourage yrading too much.