Quez
Footballguy
pseudoephedrine is a hell of a drugHiggs said:Some more info from my son this morning:
Drew was sick the night before the race and was up all night coughing. Said he got 2 hours of sleep.
pseudoephedrine is a hell of a drugHiggs said:Some more info from my son this morning:
Drew was sick the night before the race and was up all night coughing. Said he got 2 hours of sleep.
He was running against elite college runners and professionals. It was the fastest indoor mile ever run by a high schooler. The old record was sacred in the sport and had only been held by 2 people in the last 50 years - by two of the greatest legends in the sport - Alan Webb and Jim Ryun. Alan Webb also holds many US national records, and is the current record holder of the American mile (outdoor - all age levels) at 3:46. And Jim Ryun is known as the greatest high school athlete of all-time. ESPN voted him as #1 over Lebron James and Tiger Woods.NorvilleBarnes said:He set a High School record. Obviously six other faster runners are all high school drop outs.AnonymousBob said:Yeah I'm confused. How does he come in seventh and set the record?He came in like 7th place.![]()
Hey everyone - just to close the loop on this I talked with eoMMan and it was an honest misunderstanding. He wasn't trolling or race baiting. Back to the talking about the other kind of raceHiggs said:Long story. No need to hash it out here. I'll pm you about it. My guess is that you just got caught in the crossfire.eoMMan said:Because I didn't see a picture in your article.Higgs said:Why would you ask such a question?eoMMan said:Huh? You're upset I asked if he was African American? Why would that bother you?Higgs said:Hey can you and matsuki please take this garbage to another thread or pm me? I had been talking with my son about this thread and almost gave him a link to it. Thanks.eoMMan said:Is he African American?
Now answer my question....why does this bother you?
Higgs said:Hey can you and matsuki please take this garbage to another thread or pm me? I had been talking with my son about this thread and almost gave him a link to it. Thanks.eoMMan said:Is he African American?
3:58Ned said:Can't even wrap my mind around how fast that is for a high schooler.
3:58Ned said:Can't even wrap my mind around how fast that is for a high schooler.
Yes and the turns are very tight as the indoor tracks are only 200 Meters (some are 300 Meters, but there get an asterisk as a "big track"). It can be much worse on the 200/400 runners as the stretches are shorter and they have tight turns right out of the start (it gets a bit easier as a runner moves out from lane 1). In addition, some indoor facilities are very dry and dusty from the dust from the long jump pits making it tough to get air. Its typical for a lot of the runners to be hacking like crazy after indoor events.I came into this thread thinking that an indoor mile would be faster than an outdoor mile (no wind, perfect temperature, more spots to keep track of your pace) - but I see that the record for an outdoor mile is like 10 seconds less. Why is that? Less turns?
Think about it like this....Ned said:Can't even wrap my mind around how fast that is for a high schooler.
The treadmills at my gym only go to 12 (5 minute mile) they apparently consider 15 unpossible. I have tried 12 at zero incline and can maintain it for about half mile but that's it and that's all it will ever be because my heart rate is blowing through the roof and the paramedics are running to the ambulance at that point.Think about it like this....Ned said:Can't even wrap my mind around how fast that is for a high schooler.
Let's say you go to the gym and are gonna do some sprints on the treadmill at 12. Drew is on the treadmill next to you. He cranks it up to 15....yes 15....and does it for 4 minutes straight.
Then there were the "180" banked board tracks that I ran on "back in the day" at MSG, the Nassau Coliseum, Seton Hall...Yes and the turns are very tight as the indoor tracks are only 200 Meters (some are 300 Meters, but there get an asterisk as a "big track"). It can be much worse on the 200/400 runners as the stretches are shorter and they have tight turns right out of the start (it gets a bit easier as a runner moves out from lane 1). In addition, some indoor facilities are very dry and dusty from the dust from the long jump pits making it tough to get air. Its typical for a lot of the runners to be hacking like crazy after indoor events.I came into this thread thinking that an indoor mile would be faster than an outdoor mile (no wind, perfect temperature, more spots to keep track of your pace) - but I see that the record for an outdoor mile is like 10 seconds less. Why is that? Less turns?
Then there were the "180" banked board tracks that I ran on "back in the day" at MSG, the Nassau Coliseum, Seton Hall...Yes and the turns are very tight as the indoor tracks are only 200 Meters (some are 300 Meters, but there get an asterisk as a "big track"). It can be much worse on the 200/400 runners as the stretches are shorter and they have tight turns right out of the start (it gets a bit easier as a runner moves out from lane 1). In addition, some indoor facilities are very dry and dusty from the dust from the long jump pits making it tough to get air. Its typical for a lot of the runners to be hacking like crazy after indoor events.I came into this thread thinking that an indoor mile would be faster than an outdoor mile (no wind, perfect temperature, more spots to keep track of your pace) - but I see that the record for an outdoor mile is like 10 seconds less. Why is that? Less turns?![]()
My school actually bought a used 176 and set it up in a parking lot to practice on for indoor. Even in the snow.Ned said:glock said:Then there were the "180" banked board tracks that I ran on "back in the day" at MSG, the Nassau Coliseum, Seton Hall...Yes and the turns are very tight as the indoor tracks are only 200 Meters (some are 300 Meters, but there get an asterisk as a "big track"). It can be much worse on the 200/400 runners as the stretches are shorter and they have tight turns right out of the start (it gets a bit easier as a runner moves out from lane 1). In addition, some indoor facilities are very dry and dusty from the dust from the long jump pits making it tough to get air. Its typical for a lot of the runners to be hacking like crazy after indoor events.I came into this thread thinking that an indoor mile would be faster than an outdoor mile (no wind, perfect temperature, more spots to keep track of your pace) - but I see that the record for an outdoor mile is like 10 seconds less. Why is that? Less turns?![]()
I can still hear the the echo of the boards from running the turns.
Take a look at what U of M will have in the next few years: http://support.mgoblue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/south_track.jpg From the look, it appears they will have a banked 200 for the sprints and a full indoor 400 for distance. Is it safe to assume any indoor records on the 400 surface would get an * as the indoor records, as I understand things, are required to come off of a 200M track?My school actually bought a used 176 and set it up in a parking lot to practice on for indoor. Even in the snow.Ned said:glock said:Then there were the "180" banked board tracks that I ran on "back in the day" at MSG, the Nassau Coliseum, Seton Hall...Yes and the turns are very tight as the indoor tracks are only 200 Meters (some are 300 Meters, but there get an asterisk as a "big track"). It can be much worse on the 200/400 runners as the stretches are shorter and they have tight turns right out of the start (it gets a bit easier as a runner moves out from lane 1). In addition, some indoor facilities are very dry and dusty from the dust from the long jump pits making it tough to get air. Its typical for a lot of the runners to be hacking like crazy after indoor events.I came into this thread thinking that an indoor mile would be faster than an outdoor mile (no wind, perfect temperature, more spots to keep track of your pace) - but I see that the record for an outdoor mile is like 10 seconds less. Why is that? Less turns?![]()
I can still hear the the echo of the boards from running the turns.
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Oh definitely. I know I'm stating the obvious, but you'd get the best of both worlds with that - the lack of wind and the temperature control of indoor, and the long straightaways and more space that outdoor has. Would be great for training though. My poor son was out yesterday running up and down the street in the middle of a blizzard.Take a look at what U of M will have in the next few years: http://support.mgoblue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/south_track.jpg From the look, it appears they will have a banked 200 for the sprints and a full indoor 400 for distance. Is it safe to assume any indoor records on the 400 surface would get an * as the indoor records, as I understand things, are required to come off of a 200M track?My school actually bought a used 176 and set it up in a parking lot to practice on for indoor. Even in the snow.Ned said:glock said:Then there were the "180" banked board tracks that I ran on "back in the day" at MSG, the Nassau Coliseum, Seton Hall...Yes and the turns are very tight as the indoor tracks are only 200 Meters (some are 300 Meters, but there get an asterisk as a "big track"). It can be much worse on the 200/400 runners as the stretches are shorter and they have tight turns right out of the start (it gets a bit easier as a runner moves out from lane 1). In addition, some indoor facilities are very dry and dusty from the dust from the long jump pits making it tough to get air. Its typical for a lot of the runners to be hacking like crazy after indoor events.I came into this thread thinking that an indoor mile would be faster than an outdoor mile (no wind, perfect temperature, more spots to keep track of your pace) - but I see that the record for an outdoor mile is like 10 seconds less. Why is that? Less turns?![]()
I can still hear the the echo of the boards from running the turns.
![]()
I get it. My son scrapped outdoor running in late November after a bit of a post XC recovery period. Instead, he has been taking a race your way into race shape approach by running indoor meets almost every week since mid December. For HS track, he'll typically do the 4x8, 400M & 4x4. Over the winter, he has been doing two or three events per meet depending on what is offered as most meets do not include a full schedule. He has been doing the 200 to increase some foot speed and turn over, along with the 400, 4x4, SMR & DMR. He seems to think its working. All other workouts are in the gym working on core, upper body and leg strength.Oh definitely. I know I'm stating the obvious, but you'd get the best of both worlds with that - the lack of wind and the temperature control of indoor, and the long straightaways and more space that outdoor has. Would be great for training though. My poor son was out yesterday running up and down the street in the middle of a blizzard.
It was a proud moment for Marc and Joan Hunter, who coached him as a freshman before stepping away from coaching for family reasons.NEW YORK — As a freshman at South Lakes High School in Reston, Va., Alan Webb was a swimmer who thrived in running despite his skinny legs and strong upper body build. Webb grew into his body with time and became the first and only high school runner to break four minutes in the indoor mile when he ran 3:59.86 as a senior in 2001.
Sounds like a good training plan. My son pulled a hammy in his first indoor race and we had to shut him down for about 2 months. He's just now starting to run again. I'm interested in your experiences with the weight training. I'll pm you to chat offline about it. Maybe we'll meet up at a future race.I get it. My son scrapped outdoor running in late November after a bit of a post XC recovery period. Instead, he has been taking a race your way into race shape approach by running indoor meets almost every week since mid December. For HS track, he'll typically do the 4x8, 400M & 4x4. Over the winter, he has been doing two or three events per meet depending on what is offered as most meets do not include a full schedule. He has been doing the 200 to increase some foot speed and turn over, along with the 400, 4x4, SMR & DMR. He seems to think its working. All other workouts are in the gym working on core, upper body and leg strength.Oh definitely. I know I'm stating the obvious, but you'd get the best of both worlds with that - the lack of wind and the temperature control of indoor, and the long straightaways and more space that outdoor has. Would be great for training though. My poor son was out yesterday running up and down the street in the middle of a blizzard.
PM away, but I think you started the official HS Track thread so you might want to post things here. There is some elite talent over in the 10K Thread, some of which have already been seen in here, that I'm sure can offer amazing perspective.Sounds like a good training plan. My son pulled a hammy in his first indoor race and we had to shut him down for about 2 months. He's just now starting to run again. I'm interested in your experiences with the weight training. I'll pm you to chat offline about it. Maybe we'll meet up at a future race.I get it. My son scrapped outdoor running in late November after a bit of a post XC recovery period. Instead, he has been taking a race your way into race shape approach by running indoor meets almost every week since mid December. For HS track, he'll typically do the 4x8, 400M & 4x4. Over the winter, he has been doing two or three events per meet depending on what is offered as most meets do not include a full schedule. He has been doing the 200 to increase some foot speed and turn over, along with the 400, 4x4, SMR & DMR. He seems to think its working. All other workouts are in the gym working on core, upper body and leg strength.Oh definitely. I know I'm stating the obvious, but you'd get the best of both worlds with that - the lack of wind and the temperature control of indoor, and the long straightaways and more space that outdoor has. Would be great for training though. My poor son was out yesterday running up and down the street in the middle of a blizzard.
My son's weight training has looked like a pendulum, with XC on one side and Track on the other. He did some maintenance lifting in the early summer that tapered to none during the peak of summer runs and through the season. He took almost 2 weeks off post XC and eased into lifting 3-4 days a week for track pre season. He will do a bit of in season lifting but very little. Since he is technically a sprinter with the 400 as his specialty, there is some solid science behind needing a strong core and upper body to keep the frame proper over the last half of a 400. If you saw a pic post XC to now it looks like a total before and after shot with him very lean after XC and very toned now.Good idea. So here's my question...
15 year old distance runner, still growing and on the smaller side, just started running last Spring. He runs pretty much every day as part of the high school teams (XC, indoor, outdoor) and has little time for much else. I'd like to start him on some strength training at the gym, maybe right after his practices. Is that too much? What type of weight training? Obviously higher rep workouts, but would something like squats be inappropriate? He also seems pretty averse to upper body work. The kid's got a big chest and he sees that most of the best distance runners don't have that look.
Also, what about supplementation? Is creatine out of the question? I know there are concerns about dehydration since creatine monohydrate requires drinking a ton of water. But I take creatine HCL which doesn't have that issue and though I don't do a lot of running, I've never had any problems with cramping or dehydration. There's not a lot of discussion in the running community about creatine so I'm pretty sure it's frowned upon. Just curious if you've heard anything.
Other runners, please feel free to chime in.
Good stuff! Thanks for posting. My son had similar XC summer training. He did about 350 miles last summer and I think the coach will probably want to increase that to 400 this year. Congrats on the 16:52 time. That's very impressive. Was that at Nike Regionals or Foot Locker?My son's weight training has looked like a pendulum, with XC on one side and Track on the other. He did some maintenance lifting in the early summer that tapered to none during the peak of summer runs and through the season. He took almost 2 weeks off post XC and eased into lifting 3-4 days a week for track pre season. He will do a bit of in season lifting but very little. Since he is technically a sprinter with the 400 as his specialty, there is some solid science behind needing a strong core and upper body to keep the frame proper over the last half of a 400. If you saw a pic post XC to now it looks like a total before and after shot with him very lean after XC and very toned now.Good idea. So here's my question...
15 year old distance runner, still growing and on the smaller side, just started running last Spring. He runs pretty much every day as part of the high school teams (XC, indoor, outdoor) and has little time for much else. I'd like to start him on some strength training at the gym, maybe right after his practices. Is that too much? What type of weight training? Obviously higher rep workouts, but would something like squats be inappropriate? He also seems pretty averse to upper body work. The kid's got a big chest and he sees that most of the best distance runners don't have that look.
Also, what about supplementation? Is creatine out of the question? I know there are concerns about dehydration since creatine monohydrate requires drinking a ton of water. But I take creatine HCL which doesn't have that issue and though I don't do a lot of running, I've never had any problems with cramping or dehydration. There's not a lot of discussion in the running community about creatine so I'm pretty sure it's frowned upon. Just curious if you've heard anything.
Other runners, please feel free to chime in.
For (4) years of HS my son's coach comes from the grind out high mileage, period. My son did not respond to the 500 mile summer concept at all. He scaled back a bit to around 350 and was very focused on his workouts. The end result was a PR 16:52 5K at regionals (where the crew of 500 mile summer kids faded at the end of the season). While some of it may be recruitingthe college coaches we've met with so far state they gauge each runners mileage capacity and ability to improve. Just a word of warning about too many miles. And, ice and lots of it. We iced (I was in there too recovering from knee surgery) every night after XC practice and races.
As for diet, one of my son's HS distance coaches is old school and all about red meat, green vegetables and a multi-vitamin to stay healthy. My son has for the most part stuck to this, avoided soda of any kind and does use a whey protein post workout/run/etc. For XC races, especially in warmer weather, through trial and error he realized that (2) Hammer Endurolytes can fend off most cramping.
Thanks for allowing me toout on this.
No, Regionals were bittersweet. His school is in a very tough region, one of the best D1 in the state and his school, with around 1190 students isn't anywhere near A size (and some have upward of 2500+ students). Anyway, his teams #1 who was close to 15 all year inexplicably flamed out 1/2 through the regional to finish around 30th place out of 140 with a time in the mid 17s. This eliminated any chances of the team going to states so me son would have to go top 15 to go to states and beyond. He ended up in a pack with three of his teammates at the finish and a couple of other schools runners. End result was that he went 17th with two of his teammates going 15 (a freshman who went to states) and 16.Was that at Nike Regionals or Foot Locker?
But he did a victory lap after finishing 7th and took selfies with the crowd?Totally unspoiled. He has no idea how great he is.
Phenomenal.
I got tired just watching that.
When did you run Ned, and for what school?Ned said:Phenomenal.![]()
Gives me chills seeing the start/finish and the kids waiting in the corral to run; lots of great memories running Penn Relays.![]()
I hope his coaches and parents reinforce the bolded. Going up against a once in a generation runner is going to end up bad no matter how you slice it.When did you run Ned, and for what school?
I went to Penn and used to jog around that track every day after working out. I'd always dream of a race and a finish like that. Once in a lifetime.
In order to fully appreciate the race you have to see it from start to finish with the broadcasters narrating it. It's on flotrack. I'll try to upload a copy and link to it tonight. When Drew gets the baton to start the mile he's about 100 yards behind the leader and in last place. That poor kid from La Salle... Not only did he have a huge lead, but he also ran one of the best races of his life. He's going to have nightmares for many years about Drew Hunter chasing him down.
You should have ralphed on Bill's shoes.I hope his coaches and parents reinforce the bolded. Going up against a once in a generation runner is going to end up bad no matter how you slice it.
I got to anchor our HS 4x400 relay in '97 (small HS from Delaware). I honestly don't even know how we got in - we weren't very fast. I think I ran a high 53 that day. Bill Cosby was there collecting batons post-race... I was hunched over sucking wind and he came up to take the baton "don't vomit on my shoes".![]()
I can vividly remember the stadium going 'wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwooooooooooooooooooop' when someone was getting caught.
Those were the day when Obea Moore was big - dude could fly. It's a shame he fizzled out.