Drone Wars (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Hoping to have a separate discussion from the Ukraine thread about how warfare has changed in the last 24 hours. It seems to me, from what I’m reading, that the Ukrainian drone strike on Russia this weekend is as impactful, to military technology, as the first appearance of armored battleships in 1862 (the Merrimac- Monitor battle), the first Blitzkrieg in 1939, the Pearl Harbor attack in 1941. Basically it changes everything. None of our airfields are safe. Not unless we can develop anti-drone technology (which we don’t have.)

Obviously we have nuclear technology but that involves destroying the country you’re trying to defeat. The question becomes now: does drone technology allow you to destroy a country’s defense without boots on the ground, while leaving the civilian population essentially intact? Ukraine has 2 million drones, next year they will have 4 million. Suppose China attacked us with 100 million drones? Or twice that? Or vice versa? Is there any defense against this?

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Suppose China attacked us with 100 million drones? Or twice that? Or vice versa? Is there any defense against this?

Obviously we have nuclear technology but that involves destroying the country you’re trying to defeat.

 

[timschochet]

Here’s a brief article on the effects of the attack:

How Ukraine's 'Spiderweb' Drone Attacks May Change Modern Warfare

www.rferl.org

The military expert from Rutgers says that current anti-drone technology is essentially useless due to AI and fiber optics.

 

[El Floppo]

SKorea already way ahead of us in drone defense tech.

Post by @karlrincon · 1 video

💬 196 🔁 34694 ❤️ 70051 · Happy New Year 2024 from Korea. Year of the 🐲🐉!

www.tumblr.com

 

[timschochet]

Suppose China attacked us with 100 million drones? Or twice that? Or vice versa? Is there any defense against this?

Obviously we have nuclear technology but that involves destroying the country you’re trying to defeat.

Sure, in the end nuclear technology is an ultimate defense. But since 1945 we have operated on the assumption that the use of nukes is unthinkable. If it becomes our ONLY viable defense then why have a military at all? Surely we could save billions, perhaps trillions of dollars by simply reducing our military to a nuclear shield?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

It’s so depressing that we spend all this time and money on weapons of destruction.

I’m not naive and I know nothing will change anytime soon.

 

[timschochet]

It’s so depressing that we spend all this time and money on weapons of destruction.

I’m not naive and I know nothing will change anytime soon.

A very good argument could be made that, if you study the history of human civilization on this planet, the most important factor by far is the development of military technology. Nothing else comes close.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

It’s so depressing that we spend all this time and money on weapons of destruction.

I’m not naive and I know nothing will change anytime soon.

A very good argument could be made that, if you study the history of human civilization on this planet, the most important factor by far is the development of military technology. Nothing else comes close.

Well sure, but that’s because everyone needs to stay one step ahead of the rest of the world.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Suppose China attacked us with 100 million drones? Or twice that? Or vice versa? Is there any defense against this?

Obviously we have nuclear technology but that involves destroying the country you’re trying to defeat.

Sure, in the end nuclear technology is an ultimate defense. But since 1945 we have operated on the assumption that the use of nukes is unthinkable. If it becomes our ONLY viable defense then why have a military at all? Surely we could save billions, perhaps trillions of dollars by simply reducing our military to a nuclear shield?

Yeah, i hear you there, but if you're talking a swarm of 100-200mm drones that we currently can't defend against what would our options be? If this truly does change everything and we're not technology up to the task of preventing mass infrastructure damage at home what alternative do you see in this scenario?

 

[timschochet]

Suppose China attacked us with 100 million drones? Or twice that? Or vice versa? Is there any defense against this?

Obviously we have nuclear technology but that involves destroying the country you’re trying to defeat.

Sure, in the end nuclear technology is an ultimate defense. But since 1945 we have operated on the assumption that the use of nukes is unthinkable. If it becomes our ONLY viable defense then why have a military at all? Surely we could save billions, perhaps trillions of dollars by simply reducing our military to a nuclear shield?

Yeah, i hear you there, but if you're talking a swarm of 100-200mm drones that we currently can't defend against what would our options be? If this truly does change everything and we're not technology up to the task of preventing mass infrastructure damage at home what alternative do you see in this scenario?

Pretty much the same as when, in the NFL, some coach develops a new offense nobody can stop. You have to come up with a defense to counter it.

 

[General Malaise]

It’s so depressing that we spend all this time and money on weapons of destruction.

I’m not naive and I know nothing will change anytime soon.

A very good argument could be made that, if you study the history of human civilization on this planet, the most important factor by far is the development of military technology. Nothing else comes close.

Printing press was pretty important.

Vaccines might want a seat at the table as well.

 

[General Malaise]

Suppose China attacked us with 100 million drones? Or twice that? Or vice versa? Is there any defense against this?

Obviously we have nuclear technology but that involves destroying the country you’re trying to defeat.

Sure, in the end nuclear technology is an ultimate defense. But since 1945 we have operated on the assumption that the use of nukes is unthinkable. If it becomes our ONLY viable defense then why have a military at all? Surely we could save billions, perhaps trillions of dollars by simply reducing our military to a nuclear shield?

Yeah, i hear you there, but if you're talking a swarm of 100-200mm drones that we currently can't defend against what would our options be? If this truly does change everything and we're not technology up to the task of preventing mass infrastructure damage at home what alternative do you see in this scenario?

Pretty much the same as when, in the NFL, some coach develops a new offense nobody can stop. You have to come up with a defense to counter it.

Drones = The Tush Push? We can't stop it?

 

[timschochet]

Suppose China attacked us with 100 million drones? Or twice that? Or vice versa? Is there any defense against this?

Obviously we have nuclear technology but that involves destroying the country you’re trying to defeat.

Sure, in the end nuclear technology is an ultimate defense. But since 1945 we have operated on the assumption that the use of nukes is unthinkable. If it becomes our ONLY viable defense then why have a military at all? Surely we could save billions, perhaps trillions of dollars by simply reducing our military to a nuclear shield?

Yeah, i hear you there, but if you're talking a swarm of 100-200mm drones that we currently can't defend against what would our options be? If this truly does change everything and we're not technology up to the task of preventing mass infrastructure damage at home what alternative do you see in this scenario?

Pretty much the same as when, in the NFL, some coach develops a new offense nobody can stop. You have to come up with a defense to counter it.

Drones = The Tush Push? We can't stop it?

Apparently not at the moment.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Suppose China attacked us with 100 million drones? Or twice that? Or vice versa? Is there any defense against this?

Obviously we have nuclear technology but that involves destroying the country you’re trying to defeat.

Sure, in the end nuclear technology is an ultimate defense. But since 1945 we have operated on the assumption that the use of nukes is unthinkable. If it becomes our ONLY viable defense then why have a military at all? Surely we could save billions, perhaps trillions of dollars by simply reducing our military to a nuclear shield?

Yeah, i hear you there, but if you're talking a swarm of 100-200mm drones that we currently can't defend against what would our options be? If this truly does change everything and we're not technology up to the task of preventing mass infrastructure damage at home what alternative do you see in this scenario?

Pretty much the same as when, in the NFL, some coach develops a new offense nobody can stop. You have to come up with a defense to counter it.

Long to medium term i would expect that too. In the short term (the tush push remains unstoppable) it does seem a scary proposition. There's another thread for the war, but Russia got caught with their pants down and it'll be interesting (scary) to see where the war goes

 

[timschochet]

It’s so depressing that we spend all this time and money on weapons of destruction.

I’m not naive and I know nothing will change anytime soon.

A very good argument could be made that, if you study the history of human civilization on this planet, the most important factor by far is the development of military technology. Nothing else comes close.

Printing press was pretty important.

Vaccines might want a seat at the table as well.

Both the printing press and vaccines were developed in western civilization, which was dominant because of military technology. Without the military dominance, neither innovation is as impactful. China, for example, created paper, and had medical advancements far ahead of European culture, but these innovations did not have worldwide impact because China was not militarily dominant.

 

[Capella]

Suppose China attacked us with 100 million drones? Or twice that? Or vice versa? Is there any defense against this?

Obviously we have nuclear technology but that involves destroying the country you’re trying to defeat.

Sure, in the end nuclear technology is an ultimate defense. But since 1945 we have operated on the assumption that the use of nukes is unthinkable. If it becomes our ONLY viable defense then why have a military at all? Surely we could save billions, perhaps trillions of dollars by simply reducing our military to a nuclear shield?

Yeah, i hear you there, but if you're talking a swarm of 100-200mm drones that we currently can't defend against what would our options be? If this truly does change everything and we're not technology up to the task of preventing mass infrastructure damage at home what alternative do you see in this scenario?

Pretty much the same as when, in the NFL, some coach develops a new offense nobody can stop. You have to come up with a defense to counter it.

Drones = The Tush Push? We can't stop it?

Get Vita Vea out there.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm a pretty good skeet shooter.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Speaking of drones, do we still have unknown drones flying around over the east coast and some of our military bases? Hot topic awhile back, but radio silence now.

 

[beer 30]

The military expert from Rutgers says that current anti-drone technology is essentially useless due to AI and fiber optics.

I still struggle to get my head around the fiber optic thing and how it works. I mean I get it but how do you maneuver in woods or an urban environment flying in & out of buildings but I digress.

If you can't jam them then yea, it's pretty hard to put together a defense...currently. As fast as the drone tech is changing I don't expect the advantage to last too long before they come up with a foil. Russia has the same tech and using it successfully against Ukraine so it's not like it's one sided. To your overall point though, these were a handful of of semi's full to the brim of these drones. Now consider sea land containers coming from China. That should make you take a seat and realize how vulnerable the US is.

 

[The Z Machine]

I mean I get it but how do you maneuver in woods or an urban environment flying in & out of buildings but I digress.

The drone carries the spool of fiber optical cable and it essentially has zero friction to unspool as it flies. The fiber essentially continuously falls out of the back of the drone.

There's a max range for these drones and the longer the cable, the heavier the spool it's carrying. That decreases speed, decreases payload, and makes the drone larger and easier to detect.

I'm sure many many smart people are trying to figure out how to counter fiber optic drones. Do we know if the Ukrainian drones used in this attack on Russian airbases were fiber optic? I know they used cellular phone networks to relay command and control info back to Ukraine, but maybe the drone didn't carry the wireless comms and instead the "home base" had the wireless connection and the drones weer tethered to the home base.

 

[Dezbelief]

I mean I get it but how do you maneuver in woods or an urban environment flying in & out of buildings but I digress.

The drone carries the spool of fiber optical cable and it essentially has zero friction to unspool as it flies. The fiber essentially continuously falls out of the back of the drone.

There's a max range for these drones and the longer the cable, the heavier the spool it's carrying. That decreases speed, decreases payload, and makes the drone larger and easier to detect.

I'm sure many many smart people are trying to figure out how to counter fiber optic drones. Do we know if the Ukrainian drones used in this attack on Russian airbases were fiber optic? I know they used cellular phone networks to relay command and control info back to Ukraine, but maybe the drone didn't carry the wireless comms and instead the "home base" had the wireless connection and the drones weer tethered to the home base.

There were pics/videos of the drones taking off from the containers. They were not fiber optic.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I certainly don’t know the answer but I find it fascinating, especially if you get to the point where they’re able to take out or even incapacitate carrier battle groups. Unless the defense of them keeps up, it would make a large part of the military obsolete. Good thread

 

[General Malaise]

So why don't the Ukranians just drone on over to Moscow and unleash hell there?

 

[General Malaise]

So why don't the Ukranians just drone on over to Moscow and unleash hell there?

Nukes, dummy.

Ignore me. I was a terrible Risk player.

 

[Dezbelief]

So why don't the Ukranians just drone on over to Moscow and unleash hell there?

Nukes, dummy.

Ignore me. I was a terrible Risk player.

They are doing what they can but Moscow is bigger and has better drone defenses than the recent airbases that were hit. Ukraine has been launching drones at military targets in and near Moscow. What is a few dozen drones amongst millions of people?

 

[Runkle]

It seems like every day I'm realizing that some normal, everyday thing I take for granted is something that growing up in the 80s or 90s would have seemed impossible, science fiction, or just completely unbelievable if I'd seen it in a movie. I'm starting to recognize that feeling more and more often.

Anyway, just last week, I saw somewhere that the former CEO of Spotify now runs a company that makes plywood drones. They're basically invisible to radar because they're small and made of organic material, so they just seem to be birds or whatever. Throw some basic iPhone-quality AI in there and they're the scifi doom robots from the Terminator movies or something.

From what I saw, if a drone loses data connection from the human operator, it'll just carry out it's mission using on-board AI, no problem. It's got basic enough image recognition to find a good target. Just like your phone identifies faces when taking pictures, these things can ID tanks, warships, whatever. Not only that, but, say a drone on AI autopilot stumbles across a column of 10 tanks below it... it doesn't just know to aim for the first one to stop the rest behind it, but, will turn on bluetooth and find 9 friends from the swarm of drones and recruit them. Then, together, they'll communicate with each other and share data back and forth to coordinate an attack, using GPS and windspeed and all the AI on board, to make sure that they hit each of the targets simultaneously so that there's no warning below. 10 smart bombs that can track and trace and hit all 10 different targets within a second of each other. Run by some tech bro entrepreneur like something out of James Bond or Sneakers or something. Crazy world we're living in.

 

[The Z Machine]

It seems like every day I'm realizing that some normal, everyday thing I take for granted is something that growing up in the 80s or 90s would have seemed impossible, science fiction, or just completely unbelievable if I'd seen it in a movie. I'm starting to recognize that feeling more and more often.

Anyway, just last week, I saw somewhere that the former CEO of Spotify now runs a company that makes plywood drones. They're basically invisible to radar because they're small and made of organic material, so they just seem to be birds or whatever. Throw some basic iPhone-quality AI in there and they're the scifi doom robots from the Terminator movies or something.

From what I saw, if a drone loses data connection from the human operator, it'll just carry out it's mission using on-board AI, no problem. It's got basic enough image recognition to find a good target. Just like your phone identifies faces when taking pictures, these things can ID tanks, warships, whatever. Not only that, but, say a drone on AI autopilot stumbles across a column of 10 tanks below it... it doesn't just know to aim for the first one to stop the rest behind it, but, will turn on bluetooth and find 9 friends from the swarm of drones and recruit them. Then, together, they'll communicate with each other and share data back and forth to coordinate an attack, using GPS and windspeed and all the AI on board, to make sure that they hit each of the targets simultaneously so that there's no warning below. 10 smart bombs that can track and trace and hit all 10 different targets within a second of each other. Run by some tech bro entrepreneur like something out of James Bond or Sneakers or something. Crazy world we're living in.

I *think* that in the US they still require a human in the kill chain to authorize offensive action. I'm sure it's possible to do it 100% autonomously, and I think it's likely that other countries don't require this human in the loop. The US really doesn't like friendly fire incidents.

 

[-fish-]

Edit to ignore my own post. These were short range fiber optic drones.

I can't even watch Friday night baseball on Apple TV without it freezing up. I'd hate to base military strategy on cellular/wifi networks.

 

[Runkle]

It seems like every day I'm realizing that some normal, everyday thing I take for granted is something that growing up in the 80s or 90s would have seemed impossible, science fiction, or just completely unbelievable if I'd seen it in a movie. I'm starting to recognize that feeling more and more often.

Anyway, just last week, I saw somewhere that the former CEO of Spotify now runs a company that makes plywood drones. They're basically invisible to radar because they're small and made of organic material, so they just seem to be birds or whatever. Throw some basic iPhone-quality AI in there and they're the scifi doom robots from the Terminator movies or something.

From what I saw, if a drone loses data connection from the human operator, it'll just carry out it's mission using on-board AI, no problem. It's got basic enough image recognition to find a good target. Just like your phone identifies faces when taking pictures, these things can ID tanks, warships, whatever. Not only that, but, say a drone on AI autopilot stumbles across a column of 10 tanks below it... it doesn't just know to aim for the first one to stop the rest behind it, but, will turn on bluetooth and find 9 friends from the swarm of drones and recruit them. Then, together, they'll communicate with each other and share data back and forth to coordinate an attack, using GPS and windspeed and all the AI on board, to make sure that they hit each of the targets simultaneously so that there's no warning below. 10 smart bombs that can track and trace and hit all 10 different targets within a second of each other. Run by some tech bro entrepreneur like something out of James Bond or Sneakers or something. Crazy world we're living in.

I *think* that in the US they still require a human in the kill chain to authorize offensive action. I'm sure it's possible to do it 100% autonomously, and I think it's likely that other countries don't require this human in the loop. The US really doesn't like friendly fire incidents.

Probably correct, at least as far as publicly acknowledged. IIRC these are German-made and being supplied to Ukraine.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Drones are also a battle of naval power. A buddy of mine does this for our govt. Not many drones are going to fly around the globe especially weapons loaded. So rather than putting 30 F18s on an aircraft carrier, we are building water submersible balloon containing hundreds of drones to drop in various parts of the ocean, ready at the click of a button to deploy. So the more ships we have to deploy these things, the better.

This is one of the many reasons China is very focused on it's navy right now, and even more so the waterways that allow it's ships to get to the ocean without passing through waterways owned by other countries. Any way they travel they have to go by Japan, Phillippines, Taiwan, or Indonesia. Owning Taiwan alleviates some of that. Russia obviously has issues too with no warm water port. The USA so very geographically advantaged when it comes to naval warfare.

 

[The Z Machine]

Drones are also a battle of naval power. A buddy of mine does this for our govt. Not many drones are going to fly around the globe especially weapons loaded. So rather than putting 30 F18s on an aircraft carrier, we are building water submersible balloon containing hundreds of drones to drop in various parts of the ocean, ready at the click of a button to deploy. So the more ships we have to deploy these things, the better.

This is one of the many reasons China is very focused on it's navy right now, and even more so the waterways that allow it's ships to get to the ocean without passing through waterways owned by other countries. Any way they travel they have to go by Japan, Phillippines, Taiwan, or Indonesia. Owning Taiwan alleviates some of that. Russia obviously has issues too with no warm water port. The USA so very geographically advantaged when it comes to naval warfare.

Not to mention the only land borders are with 2 friendly nations. Well, formerly friendly nations...

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

China Builds World's First Dedicated Drone Carrier - Naval News

China has built the world's first dedicated drone carrier. The ship has not been reported however and many of the circumstances surrounding it remain a mystery.

www.navalnews.com

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

My GB is a union carpenter who builds battleships up in NE.

They have been “at war” and competing with China for almost a decade. They are WAY behind.

He says his coworkers are lazy and incompetent. Some of them sleep on the job.

IMO American is fat lazy and stupid. That will only change if and when we get smacked.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Suppose China attacked us with 100 million drones? Or twice that? Or vice versa? Is there any defense against this?

Obviously we have nuclear technology but that involves destroying the country you’re trying to defeat.

My suspicion is that humans have already done this (at least) once. For me that explains trinitite at many ancient megalith sites.

Again, just a (not exactly fun) theory.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Also, sorry for the third post but this topic interests me…..

This thread should have everyone’s attention. I just don’t think people can wrap their heads around the future with AI, drones, and super computing.

All of our digital money is at risk. Nothing online will be safe. Our posting pasts will be used to against us.

It’s a FN terrible reality to think about but like it or not, it’s coming and 99% of us aren’t even remotely capable of understanding what that looks like.

Sorry for the doom and gloom but it’s gonna get freaky.

 

[Sullie]

So, the very first thing I thought of was that civilian aircraft are screwed. Giant, slow moving people carriers. I mean if a coordinated drone attack can take out a bunch of sitting targets, it's not difficult to imagine they can take out moving targets with not much additional programming. So then 5, 10, 50, 100, etc. coordinated drones take out 5, 10, 50, 100, etc. civilian aircraft in one day at the same time. So whatever group/organization that's upset with us, takes out thousands of civilians plus they get the bonus of taking out civilians + buildings + structures on the ground for pennies on the dollar compared to using traditional weapons. We need a drone defensive strategy like yesterday.

 

[beer 30]

My GB is a union carpenter who builds battleships up in NE.

They have been “at war” and competing with China for almost a decade. They are WAY behind.

He says his coworkers are lazy and incompetent. Some of them sleep on the job.

IMO American is fat lazy and stupid. That will only change if and when we get smacked.

Today, we are short nearly 140,000 workers to support the building of submarines alone.

To your point, we are screwed and my fear is only a direct attack will get us out of this funk and unite the American desire as we have seen in WWII and after 9/11. The problem is, I'm not sure the youth of today are going to be able to answer the call. We downplay blue collar work and promote worthless college degrees that just ensure indentured servitude to pay off college loans that never seem to go away. [/stepsoffsoapbox]

 

[Andy Dufresne]

My GB is a union carpenter who builds battleships up in NE.

They have been “at war” and competing with China for almost a decade. They are WAY behind.

He says his coworkers are lazy and incompetent. Some of them sleep on the job.

IMO American is fat lazy and stupid. That will only change if and when we get smacked.

Today, we are short nearly 140,000 workers to support the building of submarines alone.

To your point, we are screwed and my fear is only a direct attack will get us out of this funk and unite the American desire as we have seen in WWII and after 9/11. The problem is, I'm not sure the youth of today are going to be able to answer the call. We downplay blue collar work and promote worthless college degrees that just ensure indentured servitude to pay off college loans that never seem to go away. [/stepsoffsoapbox]

Actually, the trends are encouraging regarding this.

Data from the U.S. Department of Labor shows a 19% increase in enrollment in trade schools and apprenticeships over the past three years. Fields like plumbing, electrical work, welding, HVAC, and automotive repair are seeing surges in interest.

 

[beer 30]

My GB is a union carpenter who builds battleships up in NE.

They have been “at war” and competing with China for almost a decade. They are WAY behind.

He says his coworkers are lazy and incompetent. Some of them sleep on the job.

IMO American is fat lazy and stupid. That will only change if and when we get smacked.

Today, we are short nearly 140,000 workers to support the building of submarines alone.

To your point, we are screwed and my fear is only a direct attack will get us out of this funk and unite the American desire as we have seen in WWII and after 9/11. The problem is, I'm not sure the youth of today are going to be able to answer the call. We downplay blue collar work and promote worthless college degrees that just ensure indentured servitude to pay off college loans that never seem to go away. [/stepsoffsoapbox]

Actually, the trends are encouraging regarding this.

Data from the U.S. Department of Labor shows a 19% increase in enrollment in trade schools and apprenticeships over the past three years. Fields like plumbing, electrical work, welding, HVAC, and automotive repair are seeing surges in interest.

Yea I've heard that but we're already deep in the hole from 20 years of not giving a ****. So this 19% increase is going to make a dent in that shortfall probably. We're not stopping the economy to wait and catch up. It's great to see and I wish we put as much emphasis on promoting the trades as we do all the college stuff you see.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

My GB is a union carpenter who builds battleships up in NE.

They have been “at war” and competing with China for almost a decade. They are WAY behind.

He says his coworkers are lazy and incompetent. Some of them sleep on the job.

IMO American is fat lazy and stupid. That will only change if and when we get smacked.

Today, we are short nearly 140,000 workers to support the building of submarines alone.

To your point, we are screwed and my fear is only a direct attack will get us out of this funk and unite the American desire as we have seen in WWII and after 9/11. The problem is, I'm not sure the youth of today are going to be able to answer the call. We downplay blue collar work and promote worthless college degrees that just ensure indentured servitude to pay off college loans that never seem to go away. [/stepsoffsoapbox]

Actually, the trends are encouraging regarding this.

Data from the U.S. Department of Labor shows a 19% increase in enrollment in trade schools and apprenticeships over the past three years. Fields like plumbing, electrical work, welding, HVAC, and automotive repair are seeing surges in interest.

Yea I've heard that but we're already deep in the hole from 20 years of not giving a ****. So this 19% increase is going to make a dent in that shortfall probably. We're not stopping the economy to wait and catch up. It's great to see and I wish we put as much emphasis on promoting the trades as we do all the college stuff you see.

Ive been advocating for it both at a grass roots level and politically for almost 8 years.

Right now schools are graded on how many students go to college. Its my goal to have them also get "credit" for kids entering an apprenticeship program.

 

[-fish-]

Seems like we could address the skilled labor shortage in tandem with immigration issues. Offer citizenship for 5 years of military service; train them up in a trade in the military, and then when they're done with their service you have a citizen with a marketable and necessary skill.

 

[TLEF316]

Yeah, this is some very scary stuff.

The ocean is REAL big and I can't imagine China or Russia would have too much trouble running a sub up close to enough to release a fleet of drones and do some pretty significant damage.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Seems like we could address the skilled labor shortage in tandem with immigration issues. Offer citizenship for 5 years of military service; train them up in a trade in the military, and then when they're done with their service you have a citizen with a marketable and necessary skill.

In moderation I agree. Can’t just make it open to everyone as you can’t fill up your military with non-citizens

There are also MILLIONS of able bodied Americans receiving government assistance. Make that **** temporary and put them to work.

 

[UncleZen]

All of the Spacex Starlink missions are just secret lasers to protect us from drones. We've got this covered.

 

[FarFromHome]

The best and current defense of drones is to have other nations to scared to mess with us.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

The best and current defense of drones is to have other nations to scared to mess with us.

To be fair we are Back II Back World Champs!!!

 

[bigbottom]

So, the very first thing I thought of was that civilian aircraft are screwed. Giant, slow moving people carriers. I mean if a coordinated drone attack can take out a bunch of sitting targets, it's not difficult to imagine they can take out moving targets with not much additional programming. So then 5, 10, 50, 100, etc. coordinated drones take out 5, 10, 50, 100, etc. civilian aircraft in one day at the same time. So whatever group/organization that's upset with us, takes out thousands of civilians plus they get the bonus of taking out civilians + buildings + structures on the ground for pennies on the dollar compared to using traditional weapons. We need a drone defensive strategy like yesterday.

Or open air stadiums.

 

[Runkle]

So, the very first thing I thought of was that civilian aircraft are screwed. Giant, slow moving people carriers. I mean if a coordinated drone attack can take out a bunch of sitting targets, it's not difficult to imagine they can take out moving targets with not much additional programming. So then 5, 10, 50, 100, etc. coordinated drones take out 5, 10, 50, 100, etc. civilian aircraft in one day at the same time. So whatever group/organization that's upset with us, takes out thousands of civilians plus they get the bonus of taking out civilians + buildings + structures on the ground for pennies on the dollar compared to using traditional weapons. We need a drone defensive strategy like yesterday.

It's always been pretty cheap to get one of those hobby drones that has a remote-activated claw or gripper on it, and just put a hand grenade in its grasp. Pull the pin, fly 50 stories above any target and release. Flying a hobby drone into a jet engine is trickier on the individual level but at the nation-state level they all have the tech.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

So, the very first thing I thought of was that civilian aircraft are screwed. Giant, slow moving people carriers. I mean if a coordinated drone attack can take out a bunch of sitting targets, it's not difficult to imagine they can take out moving targets with not much additional programming. So then 5, 10, 50, 100, etc. coordinated drones take out 5, 10, 50, 100, etc. civilian aircraft in one day at the same time. So whatever group/organization that's upset with us, takes out thousands of civilians plus they get the bonus of taking out civilians + buildings + structures on the ground for pennies on the dollar compared to using traditional weapons. We need a drone defensive strategy like yesterday.

Or open air stadiums.

The sum of all fears

 

[Chadstroma]

Hoping to have a separate discussion from the Ukraine thread about how warfare has changed in the last 24 hours. It seems to me, from what I’m reading, that the Ukrainian drone strike on Russia this weekend is as impactful, to military technology, as the first appearance of armored battleships in 1862 (the Merrimac- Monitor battle), the first Blitzkrieg in 1939, the Pearl Harbor attack in 1941. Basically it changes everything. None of our airfields are safe. Not unless we can develop anti-drone technology (which we don’t have.)

Obviously we have nuclear technology but that involves destroying the country you’re trying to defeat. The question becomes now: does drone technology allow you to destroy a country’s defense without boots on the ground, while leaving the civilian population essentially intact? Ukraine has 2 million drones, next year they will have 4 million. Suppose China attacked us with 100 million drones? Or twice that? Or vice versa? Is there any defense against this?

This is the next step in what has already been well under way before the Russo-Ukrainian War. None of what used to accomplish this attack was something that is novel and it is more about execution than anything.

- Drones
- AI
- Swarm

This war has been the war of the drone from the beginning. The sophistication and use has evolved and improved on both sides. All three of these things have been things that we have expected war was heading and the US has been developing. The Ukrainians have, by pure reasoning that they have no choice, have become the leaders in "small drone" warfare. (I am using small drone in terms of the drones that Ukraine mostly has developed and used versus the "larger" ones the US has lead in like the Reaper, Global Hawk and Sentinel).

The usage of AI made this work. It made it unjammable without a fiber optic wire. Trained to look for the bombers and A-50's even if contact was lost. This may be what makes it a similar momentous point in warfare. AI has been used previous to this but this is the moment it really made the operation successful. The logistics made it possible the AI made it work.

This, from what I have seen, isn't really a swarm attack. There were a number of drones used but not in the sense of a swarm that we will see in the future with warfare.

Directed energy weapons are one defense. Jamming works to a point but we are seeing the counters to that in the fiber optics and AI usage. Kinetic kills will also likely be used. LPWS can be mobile and I have a feeling a smaller type version might be worked on that can be mounted on individual tanks etc.

AI will be the key and a big part of US development. The best defense against a swarm attack, may very well be a counter drone swarm system that is AI powered that takes out opposing swarms.

The one thing that drones can not do is advance on and hold territory. This is a major problem for the Russians right now as their fighting vehicle resources dwindle and their poorly trained manpower is ineffective which counts for the very little amount of territory taken and seemingly is slowing as the Russian military gets grinded down.