Dual Position Eligibility (potential Travis Hunter conundrum) (1 Viewer)

[Gally]

Trying to get ahead of this for next year in my dynasty IDP league on MFL. I don't think MFL allows for dual position eligibility. If not, does anybody think they may change that because of Hunter?

This is assuming he is going to try and be a dual threat in the NFL. I know the simple solution is to just have the league either vote on a position designation or let the site just assign one but I figured this might be a good topic to get some ideas or info from anybody now rather than waiting.

Thoughts?

 

[Crippler]

Our league allows you to just state starting X player on both O and D. So if designation is DB, than comments would have starting X player at WR and the commish would add points after game. We use MFL and not sure others allow comments when submitting lineup.

Have had before in previous league. Think Deion at the time for like bye week filler.

 

[Anarchy99]

I believe MFL will score all eligible points for a player based on the league rules for any position (so an offensive player could score special teams or defensive points). But I don't think they will allow players to have more than one positional designation. You'd probably have to check with them. As for the comments above, I don't think anyone rostering and starting a player should have to start the player both on offense and defense. Starting him once should be sufficient to get all the points that player accumulates in a game.

 

[wlwiles]

If he's truly going to play both sides of the ball in the NFL like he does in college then I think it's much different than a WR who manages to score a tackle in fantasy when he takes down an intercepting defender.

Just do like fantasy baseball does for Ohtani. There's Ohtani-P(itcher) and Ohtani-H(itter) and they are independent players.

 

[Anarchy99]

If he's truly going to play both sides of the ball in the NFL like he does in college then I think it's much different than a WR who manages to score a tackle in fantasy when he takes down an intercepting defender.

Just do like fantasy baseball does for Ohtani. There's Ohtani-P(itcher) and Ohtani-H(itter) and they are independent players.

Do the Dodgers have to use two roster spots for Ohtani? Do they have to insert him into the lineup twice (not that he's pitched for them yet)? Hunter is worth a lot as a one position player . . . but he's unlikely to put up the stats of two full-time players when he won't be playing every snap on both offense and defense. Once he plays in the NFL, he likely will be a full-time defensive player that plays a handful of snaps occasionally at WR. Is that worth starting him twice?

 

[wlwiles]

If he's truly going to play both sides of the ball in the NFL like he does in college then I think it's much different than a WR who manages to score a tackle in fantasy when he takes down an intercepting defender.

Just do like fantasy baseball does for Ohtani. There's Ohtani-P(itcher) and Ohtani-H(itter) and they are independent players.

Do the Dodgers have to use two roster spots for Ohtani? Do they have to insert him into the lineup twice (not that he's pitched for them yet)? Hunter is worth a lot as a one position player . . . but he's unlikely to put up the stats of two full-time players when he won't be playing every snap on both offense and defense. Once he plays in the NFL, he likely will be a full-time defensive player that plays a handful of snaps occasionally at WR. Is that worth starting him twice?

Of course not, Ohtani is one human, he's not twins.

It's a bit premature to do this whole exercise anyway when we don't know what he'll play in the NFL. Will it be a situation like Deion where he will be CB and may get a handful of snaps at WR? Will he be JJ Watt and play defense but go in at receiver on red zone plays? Will he be a WR that acts as a third string DB?

My caveat was if he plays both sides of the ball, and does it a lot. In fantasy baseball I've seen Ohtani as two players. Back in the Gretzky days in fantasy hockey there was Gretzky-G(oals) and Gretzky-A(ssists) because having one player score both made it too overpowered.

Sure, having Hunter be one person instead of two is hugely beneficial to the NFL team that drafts him. But in magic football he can be two people, it's ok...

 

[BassNBrew]

If he's truly going to play both sides of the ball in the NFL like he does in college then I think it's much different than a WR who manages to score a tackle in fantasy when he takes down an intercepting defender.

Just do like fantasy baseball does for Ohtani. There's Ohtani-P(itcher) and Ohtani-H(itter) and they are independent players.

Do the Dodgers have to use two roster spots for Ohtani? Do they have to insert him into the lineup twice (not that he's pitched for them yet)? Hunter is worth a lot as a one position player . . . but he's unlikely to put up the stats of two full-time players when he won't be playing every snap on both offense and defense. Once he plays in the NFL, he likely will be a full-time defensive player that plays a handful of snaps occasionally at WR. Is that worth starting him twice?

Of course not, Ohtani is one human, he's not twins.

It's a bit premature to do this whole exercise anyway when we don't know what he'll play in the NFL. Will it be a situation like Deion where he will be CB and may get a handful of snaps at WR? Will he be JJ Watt and play defense but go in at receiver on red zone plays? Will he be a WR that acts as a third string DB?

My caveat was if he plays both sides of the ball, and does it a lot. In fantasy baseball I've seen Ohtani as two players. Back in the Gretzky days in fantasy hockey there was Gretzky-G(oals) and Gretzky-A(ssists) because having one player score both made it too overpowered.

Sure, having Hunter be one person instead of two is hugely beneficial to the NFL team that drafts him. But in magic football he can be two people, it's ok...

He can also be one person like Tayson and get pts at TE, RB, and QB.

 

[-OZ-]

If he's truly going to play both sides of the ball in the NFL like he does in college then I think it's much different than a WR who manages to score a tackle in fantasy when he takes down an intercepting defender.

Just do like fantasy baseball does for Ohtani. There's Ohtani-P(itcher) and Ohtani-H(itter) and they are independent players.

Do the Dodgers have to use two roster spots for Ohtani? Do they have to insert him into the lineup twice (not that he's pitched for them yet)? Hunter is worth a lot as a one position player . . . but he's unlikely to put up the stats of two full-time players when he won't be playing every snap on both offense and defense. Once he plays in the NFL, he likely will be a full-time defensive player that plays a handful of snaps occasionally at WR. Is that worth starting him twice?

Of course not, Ohtani is one human, he's not twins.

It's a bit premature to do this whole exercise anyway when we don't know what he'll play in the NFL. Will it be a situation like Deion where he will be CB and may get a handful of snaps at WR? Will he be JJ Watt and play defense but go in at receiver on red zone plays? Will he be a WR that acts as a third string DB?

My caveat was if he plays both sides of the ball, and does it a lot. In fantasy baseball I've seen Ohtani as two players. Back in the Gretzky days in fantasy hockey there was Gretzky-G(oals) and Gretzky-A(ssists) because having one player score both made it too overpowered.

Sure, having Hunter be one person instead of two is hugely beneficial to the NFL team that drafts him. But in magic football he can be two people, it's ok...

He can also be one person like Tayson and get pts at TE, RB, and QB.

Except MFL only had him at QB this year.
For us, whatever MFL has is his position. One guy. Might be the most valuable corner back ever.
In my sleeper league, a player can have multiple positions and scores both offense and defense. Think Vrabel scoring TDs as a TE, or a WR defending an Hail Mary getting an interception. only a lot more often.

Should be a fun problem to have.

 

[Anarchy99]

If he's truly going to play both sides of the ball in the NFL like he does in college then I think it's much different than a WR who manages to score a tackle in fantasy when he takes down an intercepting defender.

Just do like fantasy baseball does for Ohtani. There's Ohtani-P(itcher) and Ohtani-H(itter) and they are independent players.

Do the Dodgers have to use two roster spots for Ohtani? Do they have to insert him into the lineup twice (not that he's pitched for them yet)? Hunter is worth a lot as a one position player . . . but he's unlikely to put up the stats of two full-time players when he won't be playing every snap on both offense and defense. Once he plays in the NFL, he likely will be a full-time defensive player that plays a handful of snaps occasionally at WR. Is that worth starting him twice?

Of course not, Ohtani is one human, he's not twins.

It's a bit premature to do this whole exercise anyway when we don't know what he'll play in the NFL. Will it be a situation like Deion where he will be CB and may get a handful of snaps at WR? Will he be JJ Watt and play defense but go in at receiver on red zone plays? Will he be a WR that acts as a third string DB?

My caveat was if he plays both sides of the ball, and does it a lot. In fantasy baseball I've seen Ohtani as two players. Back in the Gretzky days in fantasy hockey there was Gretzky-G(oals) and Gretzky-A(ssists) because having one player score both made it too overpowered.

Sure, having Hunter be one person instead of two is hugely beneficial to the NFL team that drafts him. But in magic football he can be two people, it's ok...

He can also be one person like Tayson and get pts at TE, RB, and QB.

Except MFL only had him at QB this year.
For us, whatever MFL has is his position. One guy. Might be the most valuable corner back ever.
In my sleeper league, a player can have multiple positions and scores both offense and defense. Think Vrabel scoring TDs as a TE, or a WR defending an Hail Mary getting an interception. only a lot more often.

Should be a fun problem to have.

From everything I have seen, Hunter will get drafted as a full time CB. It's very unlikely an NFL team will have him take extensive snaps at two positions. Deion Sanders and Devin Hester pulled triple duty (offensive / defense / kick returns). But Sanders only had one season when he was more than an afterthought on offense (and the Cowboys took kick returning off his plate). Hester was the opposite. He played mostly on offense, specialized in special teams, and played on defense some (but wasn't a huge contributor). IMO, bonus scoring for two way or multi positional players is nice, but having to start the same player twice doesn't seem like the best move for fantasy purposes.

 

[-OZ-]

If he's truly going to play both sides of the ball in the NFL like he does in college then I think it's much different than a WR who manages to score a tackle in fantasy when he takes down an intercepting defender.

Just do like fantasy baseball does for Ohtani. There's Ohtani-P(itcher) and Ohtani-H(itter) and they are independent players.

Do the Dodgers have to use two roster spots for Ohtani? Do they have to insert him into the lineup twice (not that he's pitched for them yet)? Hunter is worth a lot as a one position player . . . but he's unlikely to put up the stats of two full-time players when he won't be playing every snap on both offense and defense. Once he plays in the NFL, he likely will be a full-time defensive player that plays a handful of snaps occasionally at WR. Is that worth starting him twice?

Of course not, Ohtani is one human, he's not twins.

It's a bit premature to do this whole exercise anyway when we don't know what he'll play in the NFL. Will it be a situation like Deion where he will be CB and may get a handful of snaps at WR? Will he be JJ Watt and play defense but go in at receiver on red zone plays? Will he be a WR that acts as a third string DB?

My caveat was if he plays both sides of the ball, and does it a lot. In fantasy baseball I've seen Ohtani as two players. Back in the Gretzky days in fantasy hockey there was Gretzky-G(oals) and Gretzky-A(ssists) because having one player score both made it too overpowered.

Sure, having Hunter be one person instead of two is hugely beneficial to the NFL team that drafts him. But in magic football he can be two people, it's ok...

He can also be one person like Tayson and get pts at TE, RB, and QB.

Except MFL only had him at QB this year.
For us, whatever MFL has is his position. One guy. Might be the most valuable corner back ever.
In my sleeper league, a player can have multiple positions and scores both offense and defense. Think Vrabel scoring TDs as a TE, or a WR defending an Hail Mary getting an interception. only a lot more often.

Should be a fun problem to have.

From everything I have seen, Hunter will get drafted as a full time CB. It's very unlikely an NFL team will have him take extensive snaps at two positions. Deion Sanders and Devin Hester pulled triple duty (offensive / defense / kick returns). But Sanders only had one season when he was more than an afterthought on offense (and the Cowboys took kick returning off his plate). Hester was the opposite. He played mostly on offense, specialized in special teams, and played on defense some (but wasn't a huge contributor). IMO, bonus scoring for two way or multi positional players is nice, but having to start the same player twice doesn't seem like the best move for fantasy purposes.

I think he’ll probably just be a valuable corner in most leagues.
Fwiw, Hester had more punt returns than receptions and almost as many punt return touchdowns as receiving TDs. I don’t remember him being all that valuable.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Does Hunter return either punts or kickoffs?

 

[Crippler]

If he's truly going to play both sides of the ball in the NFL like he does in college then I think it's much different than a WR who manages to score a tackle in fantasy when he takes down an intercepting defender.

Just do like fantasy baseball does for Ohtani. There's Ohtani-P(itcher) and Ohtani-H(itter) and they are independent players.

Do the Dodgers have to use two roster spots for Ohtani? Do they have to insert him into the lineup twice (not that he's pitched for them yet)? Hunter is worth a lot as a one position player . . . but he's unlikely to put up the stats of two full-time players when he won't be playing every snap on both offense and defense. Once he plays in the NFL, he likely will be a full-time defensive player that plays a handful of snaps occasionally at WR. Is that worth starting him twice?

Of course not, Ohtani is one human, he's not twins.

It's a bit premature to do this whole exercise anyway when we don't know what he'll play in the NFL. Will it be a situation like Deion where he will be CB and may get a handful of snaps at WR? Will he be JJ Watt and play defense but go in at receiver on red zone plays? Will he be a WR that acts as a third string DB?

My caveat was if he plays both sides of the ball, and does it a lot. In fantasy baseball I've seen Ohtani as two players. Back in the Gretzky days in fantasy hockey there was Gretzky-G(oals) and Gretzky-A(ssists) because having one player score both made it too overpowered.

Sure, having Hunter be one person instead of two is hugely beneficial to the NFL team that drafts him. But in magic football he can be two people, it's ok...

He can also be one person like Tayson and get pts at TE, RB, and QB.

Except MFL only had him at QB this year.
For us, whatever MFL has is his position. One guy. Might be the most valuable corner back ever.
In my sleeper league, a player can have multiple positions and scores both offense and defense. Think Vrabel scoring TDs as a TE, or a WR defending an Hail Mary getting an interception. only a lot more often.

Should be a fun problem to have.

From everything I have seen, Hunter will get drafted as a full time CB. It's very unlikely an NFL team will have him take extensive snaps at two positions. Deion Sanders and Devin Hester pulled triple duty (offensive / defense / kick returns). But Sanders only had one season when he was more than an afterthought on offense (and the Cowboys took kick returning off his plate). Hester was the opposite. He played mostly on offense, specialized in special teams, and played on defense some (but wasn't a huge contributor). IMO, bonus scoring for two way or multi positional players is nice, but having to start the same player twice doesn't seem like the best move for fantasy purposes.

Is money not going to be in his equation. 35 to 24 million is a lot of reasons to rather be on the O side of the ball. These Colorado guys won’t be playing by the usual rules.

 

[Chaka]

If he plays both ways he gets points both ways.

What's the problem?

 

[Anarchy99]

Is money not going to be in his equation. 35 to 24 million is a lot of reasons to rather be on the O side of the ball. These Colorado guys won’t be playing by the usual rules.

Probably not. I suspect each team will make their own evaluation on Hunter. I am guessing he will have a Top 3 overall grade as a CB and a late first round grade as a WR. I suspect he will have a "future multiple-time-All-Pro/potential HOF" label at CB and a "could develop into a productive starting WR and future Pro Bowler" on offense. Jay Glazer told current GM's, and 12 of the 13 he surveyed said they see him as a CB and would give him some plays as a WR. Those GMs also said it's way harder to find a shutdown corner than a good WR. It's nice to non-nonchalantly say he could make $35 million at WR . . . but he needs a team to want to draft him for that as his primary role and then prove that he is worth Top 2-3 WR money. The highest paid CBs are up to $24+ million. By the time he got to a second contract, I don't think $30 million a year would be all that crazy.

 

[Chaka]

IMO Hunter isn't a big concern relative to which position he plays primarily. It seems highly unlikely that he will see a lot of snaps at his secondary position, regardless of which position that turns out to be. The NFL isn't the NCAA. Any NFL team, that isn't entirely insane, is going to draft him to play a specific position (IMO that means DB) and is going to use him, at best, as an occasional player in another position.

Frankly, IMO, Hunter seems far less confusing from a fantasy standpoint than Taysom Hill.

 

[BassNBrew]

Is money not going to be in his equation. 35 to 24 million is a lot of reasons to rather be on the O side of the ball. These Colorado guys won’t be playing by the usual rules.

Probably not. I suspect each team will make their own evaluation on Hunter. I am guessing he will have a Top 3 overall grade as a CB and a late first round grade as a WR. I suspect he will have a "future multiple-time-All-Pro/potential HOF" label at CB and a "could develop into a productive starting WR and future Pro Bowler" on offense. Jay Glazer told current GM's, and 12 of the 13 he surveyed said they see him as a CB and would give him some plays as a WR. Those GMs also said it's way harder to find a shutdown corner than a good WR. It's nice to non-nonchalantly say he could make $35 million at WR . . . but he needs a team to want to draft him for that as his primary role and then prove that he is worth Top 2-3 WR money. The highest paid CBs are up to $24+ million. By the time he got to a second contract, I don't think $30 million a year would be all that crazy.

Robert Woods 9.7 million, Darius Slayton 8.0, Lazard 12.2, Mooney 7.5.

 

[Acrobat7]

IMO Hunter isn't a big concern relative to which position he plays primarily. It seems highly unlikely that he will see a lot of snaps at his secondary position, regardless of which position that turns out to be. The NFL isn't the NCAA. Any NFL team, that isn't entirely insane, is going to draft him to play a specific position (IMO that means DB) and is going to use him, at best, as an occasional player in another position.

Frankly, IMO, Hunter seems far less confusing from a fantasy standpoint than Taysom Hill.

I'm completely with you. He will play CB and get some snaps on offense. Taysom Hill is a bigger “problem” and when JJ Watt was catching TDs, no one argued he needed to be listed as a TE either. Let's all wait and see. When Charles Woodson came into the NFL there were similar discussions about two way players (albeit toned down) and he was never a factor on offense.

 

[-OZ-]

Is money not going to be in his equation. 35 to 24 million is a lot of reasons to rather be on the O side of the ball.

Sure. But it seems (imo anyway) that he’s more likely to be a top 10 corner than a top 32 WR. He’ll make more due to his ability to also play the other side, but I think he’d actually make more in his career if he’s primarily a corner.

 

[Crippler]

Is money not going to be in his equation. 35 to 24 million is a lot of reasons to rather be on the O side of the ball. These Colorado guys won’t be playing by the usual rules.

Probably not. I suspect each team will make their own evaluation on Hunter. I am guessing he will have a Top 3 overall grade as a CB and a late first round grade as a WR. I suspect he will have a "future multiple-time-All-Pro/potential HOF" label at CB and a "could develop into a productive starting WR and future Pro Bowler" on offense. Jay Glazer told current GM's, and 12 of the 13 he surveyed said they see him as a CB and would give him some plays as a WR. Those GMs also said it's way harder to find a shutdown corner than a good WR. It's nice to non-nonchalantly say he could make $35 million at WR . . . but he needs a team to want to draft him for that as his primary role and then prove that he is worth Top 2-3 WR money. The highest paid CBs are up to $24+ million. By the time he got to a second contract, I don't think $30 million a year would be all that crazy.

And WR will be up to 40. And not 2 to 3 WR. It is 13 making over 24 and 23 to 5 making 20 million plus. 19 to 2 at 21.5 million per year. What position would you rather play. I am amazed more pass catching TEs dontt ask to be classed as WR for franchise tags. These 2 Colorado guys feel, they can do whatever they want over who drafts to them, to whatever position Hunter wants to play more. Unless he breaks some mold on what an athlete makes. I don’t know his preference for position and maybe he feels he will never be top 20 WR compared to top 5 CB but these 2 kids are very confident ala Deion. They feel they can dictate their wants in the end. A rookie contract from pick 3 to 23 is 21 million difference over 4 years but it is really the 2nd contract that matters. That 21 can be 66 plus in a hurry based on position. And most get new contract after year 3. Even year 5 for 1st based on position. Why QB rookie contracts such a huge advantage.

Taysom Hill is hardly startable in most weeks. No matter what position. He had the 1 huge game. His next 2 are 16 and 14 and the rest not really useable. Last year 7 games over 10. 4 games over 12 with 2 of those over 20. Too inconsistent to really provide an advantage.

Do most leagues give WRs pts for tackles or DBs pts for receptions. Mine does not. So league rules will determine Hunters fantasy value. His advantage in my league if playing both sides is 1 player carried who can start 2 positions. I played in league one year that returns was most valuable stat. They dominated the landscape. Desmond Howard was king. Hunter might be king if getting pts no matter what position he plays especially in IDP leagues. My league put in place rules for this years ago though.

 

[Gally]

If he plays both ways he gets points both ways.

What's the problem?

My original question was about position eligibility. Does MFL allow dual eligibility (I don't think it does)? If not (and assuming he does play both ways enough to have an argument at either position) how do leagues plan to handle that?

I am mostly just wanting to start the conversation so there is a plan in place if/when it comes to happen rather than having to hash it out the final minute. Any solution is fine as long as everyone knows ahead of time. I am just curious what different people think and how they plan to handle it.

It may never be needed but why not have a plan in place if it is needed.

 

[Gally]

Do most leagues give WRs pts for tackles or DBs pts for receptions. Mine does not.

My IDP leagues do and my non-IDP leagues do not.

 

[Gally]

My league put in place rules for this years ago though.

Is your league an IDP league? What was the rationale in not allowing points for all stats accrued?

 

[Crippler]

My league put in place rules for this years ago though.

Is your league an IDP league? What was the rationale in not allowing points for all stats accrued?

Yes. Could make a player way too valuable was the thinking plus I have to start a WR and a CB. If someone does both why not have him play 2 positions. Not get points for both at one time. I still like the rule. What would Hunter be paid if playing both positions. I don’t think it happens in the end as rigours of NFL huge but would he get paid as both. He might be #1 player in IDP leagues if getting points for everything he does. QB is our top position like it is in NFL. So would Hunter make QB money. Doubtful.

 

[Desert_Power]

This is just a ploy to motivate Taysom Hill

 

[Gally]

This is just a ploy to motivate Taysom Hill

Yep....he really needs to add LB to his resume.

 

[ZWK]

In IDP leagues it would be good to decide how you're going to handle this before your league's rookie draft, because if there are surprises afterwards then the team that drafted him might get upset (or a team that didn't draft him will).

 

[ZWK]

Taysom Hill's position is pretty straightforward. He's a running back, except for a few games in 2020 & 2021 when he filled in at quarterback, and his team lists him at TE.

Outside of the 2020-21 seasons he has never thrown 5+ passes in a game, so his passing work is obviously just occasional gadget stuff and not really being a QB.

He consistently gets more carries than targets, which clearly makes him a RB rather than a TE or WR (outside of the rare occasions when he has been the QB).

 

[Acrobat7]

He‘ll be designated as a CB. Everything else would be very surprising.

 

[Gatorade]

He‘ll be designated as a CB. Everything else would be very surprising.

And just 2 or 3 receptions a week added to that would put him in elite company in any IDP league.

 

[The Future Champs]

He‘ll be designated as a CB. Everything else would be very surprising.

And just 2 or 3 receptions a week added to that would put him in elite company in any IDP league.

Well, if he starts at CB and adds a 2-3 receptions a week he should be an elite IDP.

 

[Acrobat7]

He‘ll be designated as a CB. Everything else would be very surprising.

And just 2 or 3 receptions a week added to that would put him in elite company in any IDP league.

Absolutely, but I can’t recall a single two-way player over the last 25 years. Let’s see how much Ohtani he’s got inside of him.