Dutch Airlines Tweets "Adios Amigos" - How Offensive? (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

It was the sombrero and mustache that caused the problem not the adios part.

Where would you rate it on the scale of offensiveness above?

J

 

[fantasycurse42]

It was the sombrero and mustache that caused the problem not the adios part.

Where would you rate it on the scale of offensiveness above?

J

Somewhere below the last option and having a burrito at Chipotle

 

[Joe Bryant]

I edited to add that it included the small sombrero and mustache graphic.

That may be an even more interesting question. Is that offensive? Is the Juan Valdez logo offensive?

J

 

[Eephus]

I edited to add that it included the small sombrero and mustache graphic.

That may be an even more interesting question. Is that offensive? Is the Juan Valdez logo offensive?

J

On a scale of juan to ten?

 

[NCCommish]

It was the sombrero and mustache that caused the problem not the adios part.

Where would you rate it on the scale of offensiveness above?

J

Personally I didn't find it offensive. But I am not Mexican either.

I did think it was stupid on KLM's part. They are a business. When you play games like that you never know who you are going to offend and offended people tend to give their money to other people.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Not really offensive, but some pretty painful salt in the wound. Dumb thing for a business to do.

I wonder about this part.

Was it a careless thing with an exuberant fan running the twitter feed?

Or a carefully calculated move? I'm sure the Dutch fans loved it. I'd guess most everyone else thought it was at worst and likely fun. Obviously, the Mexican folks hated it.

Did KLM carefully calculate how many of their clients are Mexican and would be offended weighed against how much positive would come from it?

Or am I thinking they think too much?

J

 

[Black Box]

Is the Juan Valdez logo offensive?

Yes, this is offensive to asses everywhere.

 

[Mad Cow]

Not at all. Now, if they had tweeted, Mexico is gone like a teenage girl in Juarez, that would be different.

 

[Gawain]

Not at all. Now, if they had tweeted, Mexico is gone like a teenage girl in Juarez, that would be different.

The only worse loss for Mexico was the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Not really offensive, but some pretty painful salt in the wound. Dumb thing for a business to do.

I wonder about this part.

Was it a careless thing with an exuberant fan running the twitter feed?

Or a carefully calculated move? I'm sure the Dutch fans loved it. I'd guess most everyone else thought it was at worst and likely fun. Obviously, the Mexican folks hated it.

Did KLM carefully calculate how many of their clients are Mexican and would be offended weighed against how much positive would come from it?

Or am I thinking they think too much?

J

It was a brief twitter flare-up that's already passed. One actor with a couple million followers went off, and he's now apologized for his profane tirade. Sports thing, not real life.

 

[17seconds]

It's basically "na, na, na, na.. hey hey hey.. good-bye" in spanish

If Costa Rica wins, show a gnome walking out an exit in wooden shoes and we'll be square.

 

[tonydead]

Not offensive. This isn't american football.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Irish - with red hair and dressed like leprechauns = not offensive

English - dressed in crusades gear and chainmail = not offensive

Canadians - dressed as Mounties = not offensive

Mexicans - dressed in sombreros and mustaches = highly offensive

Indians - dressed with feathers and war paint = similar to the "N" word

Germans - dressed with a pointy mustache and a pickelhaube = not offensive

 

[Celph Titled]

Arjen Robben's very existence is 10x more offensive than any of this.

 

[Brony]

Personally, I think a Dutch Tweet is much less offensive than a Dutch Treat.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Not offensive at all, but as always nowadays, those who love to be offended will find a way to be.

 

[Doug B]

Is it comparable to the BBC-America bumper spots from the mid- to late-2000s? Can't find one on youtube, but they used to show guys in cowboy hats and leather vests bouncing around on those big bouncey balls with handles that kids usually play with. Cowboy culture is stereotypically "American" from a British perspective ... should Americans have been offended?

 

[TheIronSheik]

Is it comparable to the BBC-America bumper spots from the mid- to late-2000s? Can't find one on youtube, but they used to show guys in cowboy hats and leather vests bouncing around on those big bouncey balls with handles that kids usually play with. Cowboy culture is stereotypically "American" from a British perspective ... should Americans have been offended?

Outraged.

 

[Insein]

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

 

[TheIronSheik]

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

 

[jon_mx]

It is a d-bag move that a big corporation should be embarrassed to have their name tied to. I am not sure about the racial intent. Most countries have a stereotype. For the US it might be a cowboy or a fat cat businessman.

 

[Doug B]

Is the Juan Valdez logo offensive?

A somewhat different case, as that logo represents a Colombian trade federation of associated coffee farmers.

 

[17seconds]

tldr

 

[Leroy Hoard]

It would be more offensive if they sent the message in Dutch. At least they took the time to learn their language.

 

[mquinnjr]

tldr

 

[Steve Tasker]

tldr

this times a million

 

[Disco Stu]

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

Finally.

 

[Disco Stu]

Not really offensive, but some pretty painful salt in the wound. Dumb thing for a business to do.

I wonder about this part.

Was it a careless thing with an exuberant fan running the twitter feed?

Or a carefully calculated move? I'm sure the Dutch fans loved it. I'd guess most everyone else thought it was at worst and likely fun. Obviously, the Mexican folks hated it.

Did KLM carefully calculate how many of their clients are Mexican and would be offended weighed against how much positive would come from it?

Or am I thinking they think too much?

J

You're overthinking this big time. It's not like a VP is at the twitter controls.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Its so not offensive, that I'm offended that people were offended by this.

This

 

[tonydead]

Damn border fences, some of our PC leaked over.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Not really offensive, but some pretty painful salt in the wound. Dumb thing for a business to do.

I wonder about this part.

Was it a careless thing with an exuberant fan running the twitter feed?

Or a carefully calculated move? I'm sure the Dutch fans loved it. I'd guess most everyone else thought it was at worst and likely fun. Obviously, the Mexican folks hated it.

Did KLM carefully calculate how many of their clients are Mexican and would be offended weighed against how much positive would come from it?

Or am I thinking they think too much?

J

You're overthinking this big time. It's not like a VP is at the twitter controls.

Yeah, I'd say you're right. But it really was a question. I don't think it was a calculated thing. I was just wondering if it was.

J

 

[Joe Bryant]

How offensive was the tweet?
****

I believe from a social and cultural baseline, the degree of "harm" perceived by a slight against a specific group will be proportional to the amount of potential PR/financial and legal harm that could potentially be inflicted by said impacted party.

Our society is full of these double standards.

If you are woman, you can say plenty of horrible things about men in public and in general with almost no reprisal. Do you think the reverse is true?

If you are black, you can say almost anything you want about the stereotypes of white people in public and in general with almost no reprisal. Do you think the reverse is true?

A Jewish person making fun of an Asian won't merit the same kind of response in reverse. It just won't.

Do I think it's offensive in a general sense? Yes.

Should a public apology be made? Yes.

Do I think it's grounds for extortion? No

Do I think forgiveness should apply? Yes.

Do I think forgiveness is ever applied in a situation like this? No.

Aaron Sorkin really hit his stride when he was hopped up on cocaine, consider the end of the first episode of the West Wing

http://www.westwingtranscripts.com/search.php?flag=getTranscript&id=1

CALDWELLI was surprised at you, Josh. I always counted you as a friend.JOSHAnd I'm honored by that, Reverend. First, let me say that when I spoke on theprogram yesterday, I was not speaking for the President or this administration.That's important to know. Second, please allow me to apologize. My remarkswere glib and insulting. I was going for the cheap laugh, and anybody willing to step up and debate ideas deserves better than a political punch line. Mary, I apologize.MARY[pause, then turns to Toby] Good then. Let's deal.TOBY[beat] I'm sorry?MARYWhat do we get?TOBYFor what?MARYFor insulting millions of Americans.TOBYWell, like Josh said...MARYI heard what Josh said, Toby, what do we get?TOBYAn apology.MARYSunday morning radio address. Public morals. School prayer or pornography, takeyour pick.

WHAT DO WE GET?

The more you can extort someone for a miscue, intentional or not, when it comes to race, the more "offensive" the act will seem.

People called me a racist when I said Ravens running back, Ray Rice, that the perceived impact of his domestic abuse situation caught on camera would likely weigh many factors. Including the size differential between him and the woman. Their respective races. Their ages. How attractive they appeared to be against a social baseline, and even how "dark" they appeared to be as African Americans.

No one wants to say it ( except me I guess) but when Big Ben is accused of raping a girl in a bathroom during DTF Gate, that entire scenario changes if it was Tom Brady or Derek Jeter. Plenty of Steelers homers here weren't very happy that I said that. They were even less happy when I said within a year, Big Ben would be engaged to a non celebrity because that would be about the typical response from a crisis management PR firm doing it's work. They were even less happy when in about a year after DTF Gate, Big Ben did get engaged.

I've said this before, Americans sue each other more than every other country in the world combined. We have more law school graduates than we have legitimate legal jobs for all these people. Thus a culture of "adversarial legalism"

Ask any person here who works for the government, for a corporation, for any institution, how much time and resources are devoted to liability prevention. How much effort and blood and sweat is spilled to just not get sued in this country.

Joe Bryant, if FBG was a billion dollar business and publicly traded and a financial juggernaut, you wouldn't just be in the fantasy football business would you? You'd also be in the "law business" because you'd be hit by so many lawsuits in every direction, justified or not, that you'd find it more efficient and cost effective to have in house legal counsel. Ask any of your current Staff members with law degrees if I am wrong here. Because sadly I am not.

Is it offense? Yes

But the more important question is "Does it matter in terms of WHAT DO WE GET?"

Well it depends. How big is your lobby. How many lawyers do you have on your side. How much push and pull do you have with the sensationalized liberal media?

Think about it Joe, if Matt Waldman said what he said about Teddy Bridgewater and you were a billion dollar company, some black lobbyist would demand his head. They would demand a head count to see how many black people you employ. They would demand you hire people they "recommend" They would demand you hire their "recommended" consulting firm that teaches diversity and acceptance ( And want you ignore that said "company" is run by the lobbyists cousin or uncle) Or they will firebomb you in the press. They will lobby against your sponsors. They will rain destruction upon you by means of the media. And if they can pull it off, they will find a way to sue you.

Do Mexicans have a powerful lobby here in the US? Do they carry major financial weight? Do corporations and advertisers deem them as the most desirable demographics to purchase their products?

When WHAT DO WE GET gets closer to zero, I think you'll sadly find the social perception of the harm to be minimal.

Look at Mike Zimmer. He probably has a good claim that ageism worked against him in his desire to be an NFL head coach. But when it comes to NFL head coaching hiring and ageism, the WHAT DO WE GET factor is quite small. Thus, sadly for Mike Zimmer, he can simply ESAD. Look at Michael Sam, a middling draft prospect who, if you just looked at talent and skill set, could have reasonably gone undrafted. But the WHAT DO WE GET factor is huge, it's a giant ticking timebomb waiting to blow up in the NFL's face. Thus Michael Sam gets a book deal and an Oprah Winfrey supported reality show, and if you say even one possibly negative thing about him, you will be labeled and destroyed in the press. Zimmer has spent decades coaching and proven his worth in the NFL, but in the end, he is basically told to ESAD. Michael Sam has proven NOTHING at the NFL level, but when he takes a crap, the liberal media tells him it smells like sunshine and roses.

As I've always said, the actual truth means very little in this modern western world, it's perception that kills.

Can you condense your point(s) down to three focused non run on sentences? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just feel like you've got something to say but it seems scattered.

J

 

[Thunderlips]

Kind of dumb for a corporation to get involved in the petty anctics of fandom.

 

[NCCommish]

How offensive was the tweet?
****

I believe from a social and cultural baseline, the degree of "harm" perceived by a slight against a specific group will be proportional to the amount of potential PR/financial and legal harm that could potentially be inflicted by said impacted party.

Our society is full of these double standards.

If you are woman, you can say plenty of horrible things about men in public and in general with almost no reprisal. Do you think the reverse is true?

If you are black, you can say almost anything you want about the stereotypes of white people in public and in general with almost no reprisal. Do you think the reverse is true?

A Jewish person making fun of an Asian won't merit the same kind of response in reverse. It just won't.

Do I think it's offensive in a general sense? Yes.

Should a public apology be made? Yes.

Do I think it's grounds for extortion? No

Do I think forgiveness should apply? Yes.

Do I think forgiveness is ever applied in a situation like this? No.

Aaron Sorkin really hit his stride when he was hopped up on cocaine, consider the end of the first episode of the West Wing

http://www.westwingtranscripts.com/search.php?flag=getTranscript&id=1

CALDWELLI was surprised at you, Josh. I always counted you as a friend.JOSHAnd I'm honored by that, Reverend. First, let me say that when I spoke on theprogram yesterday, I was not speaking for the President or this administration.That's important to know. Second, please allow me to apologize. My remarkswere glib and insulting. I was going for the cheap laugh, and anybody willing to step up and debate ideas deserves better than a political punch line. Mary, I apologize.MARY[pause, then turns to Toby] Good then. Let's deal.TOBY[beat] I'm sorry?MARYWhat do we get?TOBYFor what?MARYFor insulting millions of Americans.TOBYWell, like Josh said...MARYI heard what Josh said, Toby, what do we get?TOBYAn apology.MARYSunday morning radio address. Public morals. School prayer or pornography, takeyour pick.

WHAT DO WE GET?

The more you can extort someone for a miscue, intentional or not, when it comes to race, the more "offensive" the act will seem.

People called me a racist when I said Ravens running back, Ray Rice, that the perceived impact of his domestic abuse situation caught on camera would likely weigh many factors. Including the size differential between him and the woman. Their respective races. Their ages. How attractive they appeared to be against a social baseline, and even how "dark" they appeared to be as African Americans.

No one wants to say it ( except me I guess) but when Big Ben is accused of raping a girl in a bathroom during DTF Gate, that entire scenario changes if it was Tom Brady or Derek Jeter. Plenty of Steelers homers here weren't very happy that I said that. They were even less happy when I said within a year, Big Ben would be engaged to a non celebrity because that would be about the typical response from a crisis management PR firm doing it's work. They were even less happy when in about a year after DTF Gate, Big Ben did get engaged.

I've said this before, Americans sue each other more than every other country in the world combined. We have more law school graduates than we have legitimate legal jobs for all these people. Thus a culture of "adversarial legalism"

Ask any person here who works for the government, for a corporation, for any institution, how much time and resources are devoted to liability prevention. How much effort and blood and sweat is spilled to just not get sued in this country.

Joe Bryant, if FBG was a billion dollar business and publicly traded and a financial juggernaut, you wouldn't just be in the fantasy football business would you? You'd also be in the "law business" because you'd be hit by so many lawsuits in every direction, justified or not, that you'd find it more efficient and cost effective to have in house legal counsel. Ask any of your current Staff members with law degrees if I am wrong here. Because sadly I am not.

Is it offense? Yes

But the more important question is "Does it matter in terms of WHAT DO WE GET?"

Well it depends. How big is your lobby. How many lawyers do you have on your side. How much push and pull do you have with the sensationalized liberal media?

Think about it Joe, if Matt Waldman said what he said about Teddy Bridgewater and you were a billion dollar company, some black lobbyist would demand his head. They would demand a head count to see how many black people you employ. They would demand you hire people they "recommend" They would demand you hire their "recommended" consulting firm that teaches diversity and acceptance ( And want you ignore that said "company" is run by the lobbyists cousin or uncle) Or they will firebomb you in the press. They will lobby against your sponsors. They will rain destruction upon you by means of the media. And if they can pull it off, they will find a way to sue you.

Do Mexicans have a powerful lobby here in the US? Do they carry major financial weight? Do corporations and advertisers deem them as the most desirable demographics to purchase their products?

When WHAT DO WE GET gets closer to zero, I think you'll sadly find the social perception of the harm to be minimal.

Look at Mike Zimmer. He probably has a good claim that ageism worked against him in his desire to be an NFL head coach. But when it comes to NFL head coaching hiring and ageism, the WHAT DO WE GET factor is quite small. Thus, sadly for Mike Zimmer, he can simply ESAD. Look at Michael Sam, a middling draft prospect who, if you just looked at talent and skill set, could have reasonably gone undrafted. But the WHAT DO WE GET factor is huge, it's a giant ticking timebomb waiting to blow up in the NFL's face. Thus Michael Sam gets a book deal and an Oprah Winfrey supported reality show, and if you say even one possibly negative thing about him, you will be labeled and destroyed in the press. Zimmer has spent decades coaching and proven his worth in the NFL, but in the end, he is basically told to ESAD. Michael Sam has proven NOTHING at the NFL level, but when he takes a crap, the liberal media tells him it smells like sunshine and roses.

As I've always said, the actual truth means very little in this modern western world, it's perception that kills.

Can you condense your point(s) down to three focused non run on sentences? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just feel like you've got something to say but it seems scattered.

J

Yeah that's actually pretty clear considering.

 

[NCCommish]

Kind of dumb for a corporation to get involved in the petty anctics of fandom.

Not really. What they could have done was just celebrate the national teams win with a congratulatory tweet. Everyone feels great. But no had to get a dig in. Oops now it's a negative story about your corporation circling the globe at the speed of light, maybe faster.

 

[Thunderlips]

Kind of dumb for a corporation to get involved in the petty anctics of fandom.

Not really. What they could have done was just celebrate the national teams win with a congratulatory tweet. Everyone feels great. But no had to get a dig in. Oops now it's a negative story about your corporation circling the globe at the speed of light, maybe faster.

I think we're on the same page....but I don't consider a congratulatory tweet to be petty or anctics. There's nothing wrong with congratulating your team or being magnanimous towards the opposition.

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

I'm calling it a fail, but only because they should have used this picture instead.

 

[cstu]

brohans i think that mexico chanted osama at the usa team so hey you get what you reap take that to the bank brostachios

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Dumb idea by a business to alienate any potential customer, but not necessarily offensive.

 

[Tom Servo]

Personally, I think a Dutch Tweet is much less offensive than a Dutch Treat.

What about a Dutch Oven?

 

[Brony]

Personally, I think a Dutch Tweet is much less offensive than a Dutch Treat.

What about a Dutch Oven?

Depends what you had for dinner.

 

[Tom Servo]

Can you condense your point(s) down to three focused non run on sentences? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just feel like you've got something to say but it seems scattered.

J

Yeah that's actually pretty clear considering.