BlahBlah WoofWoof
Footballguy
Who would you guys prefer for a Dynasty, as a #2 across from Wayne? and why?
Standard Yahoo scoring, no PPR.
Thanks!
Standard Yahoo scoring, no PPR.
Thanks!
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Dwayne Bowe or Lee Evans? (1 Viewer)
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twitch
Footballguy
Gotta go Bowe. He's got Braylon Edwards potential. He's a #1 NFL receiver. Evans is a 2 really. He's a great deep threat. But his QB doesnt have the strongest arm, and he's very inconsistent. He hasnt proven he can consistently beat the double teams 1s draw weekly. Bowe is obviously going to be a stud. He's got the size, the physicality, and still decent enough speed to make big plays. Look at what he did last year with a well below average QB situation. He and Wayne could be a tremendous 1-2 at WR.
Dirty Weasel
Footballguy
I am in a very similar situation. I can pick only 2 to keep between Reggie Wayne, Dwayne Bowe, Jerricho Cotchery, and Greg Jennings. It's a 12-team, keep-8 league, where we can only keep 2 at any 1 position. Now, I know that Bowe finished tops among rookie WR's last year, but many here think he may be overvalued. I personnally don't think so. He scored his fantasy points more with his catches and yards, not his TD's, and we all know TD's are the most volatile stat. I think that's a plus for him. Yes, KC is not what it used to be when Trent Green was throwing for 4000 yards, but Bowe and Gonzo should still be able to put up some nice statlines. I'm not expecting consistency, but I don't see why he can't replicate his 70/995/5 season, and maybe even bump up his TD's by a few. He is clearly the WR1 on the team, and I believe Gonzo only helps Bowe's situation. Last year Jennings finished as WR15, Cotchery as WR21, and Bowe as WR24 in my .5PPR league. That makes him a bottom-level WR2 in my league. Lee Evans finished as WR32 in my league, with 55/849/5. I am not giving up on last year's top rookie WR for a guy who had less catches for less yards, and is 3 years older.
SSOG
Moderator
Lee Evans, a thousand times over. He's not an NFL #2- he's been the only receiving option on his team for years, and he's still gotten his. He's not unable to beat double teams- double teams are all he ever faced two seasons ago when he finished as fantasy WR7. He's inconsistent, yes, but that's the nature of the deep-threat WR- just look at Steve Smith or Chad Johnson. Nobody would argue that THEIR inconsistency means they aren't legit NFL-caliber WR1s (or legit fantasy WR1s, either).
His situation right now is brutal, but his talent is incredible. Bowe had one of the top 10 rookie seasons of the past decade... but so did Evans, and Evans has proven himself more at the NFL level beyond that. Bowe might have had 995/5 as a rookie, but don't forget that Evans had 843/9 and has every bit as good of a pedigree.
His situation right now is brutal, but his talent is incredible. Bowe had one of the top 10 rookie seasons of the past decade... but so did Evans, and Evans has proven himself more at the NFL level beyond that. Bowe might have had 995/5 as a rookie, but don't forget that Evans had 843/9 and has every bit as good of a pedigree.
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twitch
Footballguy
In Lee Evans' two best games last year, wk 8 vs the Jets and wk 9 vs Cinci, JP Losman QBed the team, and is the reason Evans actually produced #s. Trent Edwards went down in the Jets game, so naturally Losman came in and cleaned up the mess. He hit Evans for an 85yd TD, little bit of a flukey play, but a score nonetheless, and Buffalo won. Evans had 5 catches for 138yds and a score in that game because of that long play. The next week, vs the Jets, with Losman under center, Evans had 9 catches for 165yds and a score. Those were his two big games. Both with Losman getting him the ball. And Losman is no longer considered the starter in Buffalo. Trent Edwards is. And Edwards has one of the weakest arms in the league. Which I wont hammer him for because there are many successful Qs in the league who dont rely on arm strength. But a homerun hitter like Evans needs a guy who can get him the ball down field, behind coverage. His strength is not running underneath or intermediate routes. He needs a QB with an arm big enough to get him the ball in areas where he is special. Inside of 20 yds off the line of scrimmage, Evans is less than ordinary. Down the field, he's a difference maker. We all kindof know this about him. But if the QB doesnt have the goods to get the guy the ball in the places where he can consistently make plays, then as an Evans owner youre gonna be in trouble. You draft Evans, youre drafting Edwards. And if you like Edwards, more power to ya.
Bowe looks like a player who can excel at any place on the field. Which is why Id rather have him. I think he'll be far less dependent on the QB to make plays. jmho.
Bowe looks like a player who can excel at any place on the field. Which is why Id rather have him. I think he'll be far less dependent on the QB to make plays. jmho.
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In what scoring system did he finish 2nd? He was 6th in mine that year.
The inconsistency of this deep-threat WR is the #2 reason that I would value Bowe over Lee Evans. The #1 reason is that Bowe is younger and can help you longer in a dynasty league.Edit to add that I would rather have the steady performance of a big possession receiver like Bowe. Evans will blow up a couple of weeks per season to skew his stats but that doesn't help me in fantasy as much as the WR that can lock in a moderate amount of points each week. I'd also like to add that we've seen the peak of Lee Evans potential due to his length of time in the league but we've only seen one very good year out of Bowe and as I've read on this board, WR's typically start to peak at year #3. Bowe clearly has more potential.
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treat88
Footballguy
In a dynasty league, I'd prefer Bowe, but not by a large margin.
Bowe has got to repeat before I am completely on board that he is a WR1 in the NFL.
I've been killed for the comparison, but there are very real parallels between Bowe and Michael Clayton. Looks good, but he is not a sure thing.
Bowe has got to repeat before I am completely on board that he is a WR1 in the NFL.
I've been killed for the comparison, but there are very real parallels between Bowe and Michael Clayton. Looks good, but he is not a sure thing.
I'll always believe what killed Clayton was playing through that knee injury in 05'. He never got his speed back after that. Then he lost his confidence when he stopped being targeted due to Galloway's big comeback year and the shift to a more run-oriented offense.Bowe had his good rookie year despite being the 2nd option in the passing game(which is likely to change soon) and despite all ready being in a run-first offense.Unless Bowe played through a serious injury last year that nobody knows about, I don't think he and Clayton are all that similar other than they both went to LSU and had good rookie years.
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
Bowe. The best is yet to come. He's the real deal and will improve as time goes on. Evans is inconsistent and doesn't seem to have the whole package. Maybe it's just a gut feeling, but I think Evans will never reach the level of true #1 year-in and year-out. I can see them being pretty close in a redraft, but Bowe by a wide margin for me in a dynasty.
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twitch
Footballguy
What do you see as the parallels between the two? Im curious. Bowe is kindof a big, fast, overpowering guy. Clayton is tall and lanky, Sure, they both went to LSU. What else? Clayton was 6'4 197 when he came out of school, and has since tried to bulk up which alot of people seem to think has hindered his progress. Bowe is already 6'2 220. Different body types for certain. Expand on that if you would.
Here's the thing people need to consider with Bowe. At least this season. He plays in the AFC West, so as the #1 in KC, he'll have 6 match ups with Champ Bailey, Deangelo Hall/Oakland's secondary, and Antonio Cromartie. That'll be 6 tough matchups imo, and may be the equalizing or even deciding factor for some when looking at Evans and Bowe. And in weeks 13-15, KC has those 3 teams back to back to back. Something to think about atleast this season. But long term, Bowe looks like a stud. He's got swagger, but he's also a humble kid. He'll keep working at it and wont settle for being mediocre.
I would also take Evans, but "a thousand times over" makes it sound like a bigger landslide than it is.
massraider
Footballguy
Bowe.
I think he has a chance to be a 90-100 catch guy, a sled dog, and a monster in PPR.
I love Evans, but I think Bowe could be more consistent.
The biggest thing in Evans' favor is the Bills offense has more pieces in place than the Chiefs. Bowe might be a few years away from decent QB production.
I think he has a chance to be a 90-100 catch guy, a sled dog, and a monster in PPR.
I love Evans, but I think Bowe could be more consistent.
The biggest thing in Evans' favor is the Bills offense has more pieces in place than the Chiefs. Bowe might be a few years away from decent QB production.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
I really think Hardy is going to help Evans out quite a bit in a year or two. Hopefully Edwards develops as well.
treat88
Footballguy
Similar combine numbers, height, and weight:Bowe: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=26906
Clayton: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=26906
(I've seen a variety of heights and weights reported for both of these guys, but I wouldn't say they are different body types for certain)
Similar college production at same school:
Bowe: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BoweDw00.htm
Clayton: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ClayMi00.htm
Both 1st round picks, with similar rookie production.
Those were the parallels I was referring too. Close, but not identical numbers. Never the less, a valid comparison.
I have no way of comparing intangibles and have heard nothing but good things about Bowe.
I'm not predicting Bowe has a similar career arc and very much hope he doesn't. But the similarities are enough to at least remind myself that after his rookie season Clayton was considered just as surefire a stud as Bowe is now. I'd like to see Bowe repeat before considering him an elite talent.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I agree somewhat with the comparison. But I think Clayton is a rare case who shows great ability as a rookie and falls off the face of the planet than vice versa with Bowe. Clayton is/was a great blocker who worked hard on each play. Perhaps a Buc's fan can supply theories on what happened. IMO Bowe draws more comparably to a young AJ. Big man with good speed who is extremely difficult to bring down after the catch. I also think he has more upside as a red-zone target than AJ. See his fade vs. Minn and the phenom catch vs. Detroit which was basically a hail mary. He will exceed expectations if KC's running game can improve and the o-line can protect. Big "can's" (he..he), but last year was a bottom-out period for KC IMO. Things can only get better.
-OZ-
Footballguy
clear as mud. Anyone denying that these two are close is either severely underrating the other, or is too biased.bjabrad said:
I am one of Evans bigger fans, but Bowe is a darn good young WR as well, the difference is very small. Maybe Bowe is better in PPR, but in those leagues that reward big plays, Evans can be a stud.
SSOG
Moderator
J.P. Losman is still on the team, so if Edwards struggles too much, Losman will be back under center... and since he's the only weapon in the passing game, if Evans isn't getting his, that means Edwards is struggling. Besides, situations have a tendency to stabilize over time, and I'd say "Losman/Edwards" is a lot closer to stabilized than "Croyle".twitch said:
It was a typo. I meant to type WR7. It's fixed now, thanks.travdogg said:
Two years ago, an argument could easily be made that Lee Evans was the best WR in the entire league. If you like Football Outsiders' proprietary statistics, here's one for you- the top 5 receivers in 2006 were Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Lee Evans, Chad Johnson, and T.J. Houshmandzadeh, in that order. #1 and #2 had Peyton Manning throwing to them, and the other one drawing coverage. #4 and #5 had Chad Johnson throwing to them, and the other one drawing coverage. #3 had J.P. Losman throwing to him, and the 2nd highest ranked receiver in Buffalo was Peerless Price, who clocked in at 68th out of 82. How a rookie who has yet to top 1000 yards receiving can have more potential than THAT season demonstrates Evans has is beyond me.bjabrad said:
Unfortunately for Bowe, he won't be drawing the wildly overrated Hall when he plays Oakland... he'll be drawing the wildly underrated Nnamdi Asomugha.twitch said:
I didn't mean it in the sense that there's a massive gap between the two in terms of dynasty value, I meant it in the sense that if you asked me 1,000 times, my answer would be the same 1,000 times. There are some comparisons where I waffle back and forth on, even if just a little bit. For instance, would I rather have Tomlinson, Westbrook, or SJax in dynasty? Ask me 1,000 times, and I might only pick the leader 450 times. In this case, I'm quite certain I'd pick Evans over Bowe. There might not be a huge difference between the two, but in my mind at least, it's a clear difference.Maurile Tremblay said:
kevinallen
Footballguy
Well that settles it, similar height and weight and they both had similar production at the same College University. Note to self, avoid any players with these similarities in the future.treat88 said:
I think Evans is ready for a big bounce-back season in 08, with Edwards coming into his own in his second season. And Bowe being compared to Clayton is odd, Clayton having a fall from grace so quickly that no player should be compared to. Cant say there's much difference in Bowe and Evans, other than Bowe will probably be a little more consistent from week to week, whereas Evans will be more likely to get you the big homerun weeks but lay a few eggs too.
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Totally agree with SSOG.
brednbuddah
Footballguy
twitch said:
Evans is 
with Losman, I don't know about Edwards.One other factor that I think may be being overlooked by the Evans camp is that Evans will be double covered almost every passing down(unless Hardy has a fast start) meanwhile Bowe will rarely be doubled if at all.
They aren't that far apart, but Evans has let people down before, the same can not be said for Bowe. The flip side is that Evans has a 1,200 yard season to his name and Bowe does not.
I prefer Bowe simply because I think he will be more consistent and likely see more targets, due to both a lack of double teams and the Chiefs are likely to throw more than Buffalo.
They aren't that far apart, but Evans has let people down before, the same can not be said for Bowe. The flip side is that Evans has a 1,200 yard season to his name and Bowe does not.
I prefer Bowe simply because I think he will be more consistent and likely see more targets, due to both a lack of double teams and the Chiefs are likely to throw more than Buffalo.
SSOG
Moderator
Evans was double-covered every down two years ago, too. He has the talent to beat double teams, and smart offensive coordinators will eventually find ways to get their playmakers the ball in their hands. Look at how SanMoss and Smiff get a ton of screens- they're high-percentage passes where the defense can't prevent the completion. I look for Evans to start getting more and more screens thrown his way, too.As far as Bowe not seeing double teams... maybe not right now, but Gonzo's getting old, and who's going to draw coverage after he declines? Gonzo's going to be 32 this year. Only 5 times has a TE 32 or older scored 100 fantasy points. Only 3 times has a TE 33 or older scored 100+ fantasy points. Only ONCE has a TE 34 or older scored 100+ fantasy points. Historically speaking, this is probably about where Gonzo's going to start hitting the wall. Lee Evans has proven in the past that he can handle double teams. Bowe has provided no such assurances.I don't know why you think that Kansas City will throw more than Buffalo, either. Herm Edwards has never really been known for his tendencies to air it out, you know.
Well, I think Herm and Jauron probably cancel each other out in that both would be happy to just run the ball 50 times per game. The reason I think KC will throw more than Buffalo is that Buffalo looks like a decent team who will be in most games and could sneak into the playoffs. KC looks awful and will likely be trailing in 90% of their games. While Herm would love to run I really don't think he'll have much of a choice but to throw 500+ times. That should lead to a lot of garbage time production for Bowe. I think 1100-7 is a reasonable expectation for this year.
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munchkin
Footballguy
If Edwards solidifies himself as the starter in Buffalo it will be because he runs the offense more efficiently overall. Part of that efficiency will include being productive with Evans. The OC will have to figure out the best way to utilize both of their talents in a complementary way. We don't know what kind of reps Edwards and Evans had together over the course of the year with the two QB's moving in and out of the lineup. Losman can heave the ball down the field and was not afraid to throw the ball into coverage, but there is more to the game than that and the hope is that Edwards will be more efficient. Edwards showed good pocket presence but maybe he was afraid to gamble down field as he did not feel comfortable with all the routes in the playbook, I don't know. He certainly needs to show he has the ability to use the whole field to keep the defenses honest.twitch said:Evans is
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