Dynasty League Help (1 Viewer)

[Matt-X3]

Hello, this is my first post to Thefootballguys.com forum. I've been a listener of the podcast for about 6 months now, but decided to join the forum to get some more specific advice. I apologize if this is the wrong place for this post, but the coaching forum is more for specific questions for help with a single team. I'm sorry that post is so long, but if you have time, I could really use the help.

My friends and I are starting a new dynasty league. Many of us had been in a keeper league together, but we brought in some different faces that we felt would be better at communication and more involved. This is my first attempt at a dynasty league, and I just want to post the rules we came up with on here to see if maybe some of you guys who have been doing dynasty for a lot longer can give me advice and see if there is anything we should look at changing.

So, here are the rules.

12 team 25 man rosters 0.5 ppr. 1 QB, 1 WR, 1RB, 1TE, 1K, 1DEF/ST, 1 WR/RB, 1WR/TE, 1 WR/TE/RB.

Start up draft will be a 2 day draft.

Day 1 will be a $100 auction draft where teams draft the first 13 players of their roster.

Day 2 will be a 12 round snake draft.

Order of draft will either be determined by lottery.

During the season, waivers will be done standard with worst getting priority. After waivers, it will be first come first serve.

Waivers are closed at the end of the final week of the fantasy season (week 16)

At the end of the year, to help simulate free-agency, each team will be required to lose players.

The top 8 teams will have to lose 3 players:

First player is one player on their roster out of the following: a top 15 scoring QB, a top 30 RB, a top 40 WR, or a top 10 TE.

Second player is: One player on their roster who finished the previous season who finished with 100 or more fantasy points.

Third player is any other player on their roster who they choose.

Bottom 4 teams will lose any 3 players of their choice with the option to drop 1 additional player in exchange for an additional draft pick during the 5th round of the Free-Agent/Rookie draft.

Off-season will have a rookie/free-agent draft where teams pick in the order of worst to first over 5 rounds. Trading draft picks and players is encouraged before and during the draft as well as all season long.

Divisions will then change so that the 4 playoff teams make up a new division, the 4 middle teams make up a new division, and the bottom 4 teams make up the 3rd division.

 

[pacman_fl]

The league is for you and your friends. If all 12 of you agree/like the rules (or can at least live with them), the rules are good. There are rules in there many on the forum with disagree with, some that will say "no way I play with that rule", etc, but that is not the point. Just make sure all 12 owners are on-board with the rules and pay for at least the first year before you start.

If you are looking for some suggestions, my main one would be to use blind bidding for your waivers. Others that will get feedback - many like ending waivers early, many will not like the drop process (I wouldn't personally play in a league like that but it doesn't matter).

Good luck on getting the league going and hope you guys have fun with it.

 

[Matt-X3]

My main concerns are with how we plan to simulate free-agency. I really think grouping the free-agents in with the rookies will devalue rookies, and take away from the fun of having an NFL like rookie draft. If anyone has any advise to how to solve that, please let me know. I would like to have the added benefit of a simulated free-agency to help struggling teams, not at the expense of a rookie draft.

Two solutions I came up with are:

1. There is no forcing players to drop anyone, and we rely on a cut day a week before the season starts to help promote early season trades and pickups. Therefore, the only way to get new players is through the draft, or when people are let go via waivers/normal free-agent pickups.

2. We keep it as it is with forcing drops, and we separate veteran players into their own auction draft of $20 and allow teams to bid via auction before we do our separate rookie draft. That way we do not take away from the integrity of a rookie draft, but still have a free-agency.

I like the second option better, but it does not allow a struggling team a better shot at getting a premium free-agent than the best team in the league.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Give yourself an offseason budget, and have blind bidding for the "forced FA's", the vets that are cut or already in the FA pool. Keep that separate from the rookie draft. That way the worst teams don't have a "better" chance at those FA's, they have an exactly equal chance.

Also, I'd recommend having rolling waivers during the season to bring more strategy into it. Don't re-set to worst team 1st every week.

Or even better, give a year-long FA budget as well, with blind bidding, and do "waivers" that way though-out the season. If you blind bid on offseason FA's as well, this would make the most sense.

But I personally don't like your NFL FA simulation at all. Its interesting, and unique, but I don't like it. Trying to emulate the real-life NFL too much can get leagues into trouble in the long run. I wouldn't like putting in the work to find that diamond in the rough, just to have him be the only real viable cut for one of the requirements. Takes some of the fun out of dynasty.

Either go full-dynasty, where you keep everyone, or make it a contract league, where you DO get those tough decisions that emulate NFL FA that you're looking for. This in-between quick-fix you've come up with isn't that great imo.

Hope this all helps.

 

[Matt-X3]

From the responses I've seen, it would be suggested to make the following changes.

So if I keep everything above the same EXCEPT:

There are no players lost due to free agency.

Make waivers an auction budget of say $50 for acquisitions made through a blind bidding system (we already do that in my keeper auction league.) I'd probably stop waivers after week 16, and reopen them with a replenished $50 at the start of the NFL free-agency so the money has to last from February till week 16.

We do a 4 round rookie draft (expanding rosters from 25 to 29) and we have a cut day to slim the rosters down to 25 (probably between week 1 and 2 to give owners the chance to work out deals for bubble players and examine NFL roster cuts and pickups)

 

[pacman_fl]

From the responses I've seen, it would be suggested to make the following changes.So if I keep everything above the same EXCEPT:There are no players lost due to free agency.Make waivers an auction budget of say $50 for acquisitions made through a blind bidding system (we already do that in my keeper auction league.) I'd probably stop waivers after week 16, and reopen them with a replenished $50 at the start of the NFL free-agency so the money has to last from February till week 16.We do a 4 round rookie draft (expanding rosters from 25 to 29) and we have a cut day to slim the rosters down to 25 (probably between week 1 and 2 to give owners the chance to work out deals for bubble players and examine NFL roster cuts and pickups)

If you and your league likes these rules, I think they are good additions. The only thing I would suggest is the blind bid budget. If you really want to encourage free agent pickups and use blind bidding during the off-season, you may want a bigger budget. $50 generally gets burned quickly by the first 'must have" guy after week 1 or 2. Not that increasing to $100, $500 or $1000 stops that necessarily. The pro of having a low budget is it forces trade activity (or attempted activity) if guys burn through their budget. Downside there is you will get discouraged owners if it isn't a league of guys who like trading. As to your rookie & free agent draft question. Trust me, from experience, if you have 12 teams with 25 players and don't force drops, then you can put the two together and the free agents don't impact the draft that much. Especially if you run blind bidding throughout the off-season. Once again - good luck either way.

 

[Matt-X3]

Thanks for the advice pacman. The strange thing is when I do google searches looking for an example of how to design a dynasty league, I found very little. Coming up with what made sense to us was the only thing I could do, and when we discussed design I made more concessions then I wanted to. I think going back to basics and eliminating drop rules would be more fun long-term.

Does anyone have an issue with my dividing the draft up between an auction on day 1 and a draft on day 2? Or is that just fine?

 

[Zimm]

If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me. I took the leap from Keeper to dynasty a few years back and it is a huge difference and a much more enjoyable fantasy experience.

 

[packseasontix]

I see the issue with dropping being forced that people will actually be trading for the worthless 38th ranked wr to drop by giving up nothing really. If your going to force drops I would do something more like and expansion draft. Top 8 teams protect 4 players to start and the bottom 4 teams do a snake draft to take 2 players each 1 player from each team.

 

[Matt-X3]

I agree with that. From what you guys have been saying, forcing owners to drop guys is not a great idea. The guys that had an issue with us keeping everyone from year to year are guys I know I won't lose if we eliminate the force drop rule. I think I will make it a true dynasty league where nobody ever has to get dropped outside of cut day at the start of the year.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I agree with that. From what you guys have been saying, forcing owners to drop guys is not a great idea. The guys that had an issue with us keeping everyone from year to year are guys I know I won't lose if we eliminate the force drop rule. I think I will make it a true dynasty league where nobody ever has to get dropped outside of cut day at the start of the year.

I think this is the right thing to do.

 

[GregR]

It sounds like you're trying to find ways to institute a lot of the things that are naturally present for a league that uses a real salary cap.

With a salary cap, the player salaries from the auction get preserved. You can have all salaries grow each year the greater of a percentage or a minimum $ figure. Teams will cut players not because there is a rule saying they have to, but because the player isn't worth the cost to them anymore, which creates a more natural free agency. Or you could also instead have contracts of given length that don't have to increase yearly in price, but you could include extensions as ways of increasing the salaries and retaining a player longer. Same general effect.

Then if you have such a mechanism, you can have bidding waivers where your free cap room is what you're bidding with rather than having some arbitrary dollar amount per season. You would have an off-season vet free agent auction where your cap room is again what you're bidding with.

And then you can still have a rookie draft that uses draft picks so you have draft pick trading going on and where the worst teams have the best chance to improve. It can be an NFL style draft that way as well, rather than serpentine. Rookie salaries can be set based on average salaries of vets at that position as of the end of the previous FF season. For example in my league we use the bottom half of fantasy starters (sorted by salary) at the position... so a 1st round RB costs the average of the 13th to 24th highest paid RBs since we start 24 RBs each week. 2nd round the price is 2/3, 3rd round it is 1/3, fourth and beyond it is $1.

 

[Matt-X3]

Thanks Greg. I'm not trying to shoot you down or anything. I thought about doing a salary cap auction league, but decided against it because half of the owners that are going to be in the dynasty are owners that are in my auction keeper league. I was looking for something that was much different from the keeper league where we are running into problems where sleepers that hit cost so little to keep that those teams can keep their breakout players on the cheap and have so much ammo at auction that it's difficult to unseat them. I know in dynasty that it's going to be that way anyways, but on a much larger scale. The other issue I have is doing a salary cap this way would require a 25 round auction. Usually around round 10-13 of the keeper league auction everyone's eyes are glazed over, and nobody wants to stay in the room anymore. People are up getting more food or going to the bathroom. Owners forget to mark players off their big board and players get named multiple times.

That's why I wanted a partial auction. In start-up leagues I hate the of getting something for nothing. In a snake draft start-up if I luck out enough to get 1.01 I just gained a ton of leverage and value for JUST being lucky. Someone really wants Aaron Rodgers, now they are at my mercy...A value I just gained for being nothing but lucky. In an auction draft nobody gains that advantage. If I want Aaron Rodgers I pay for him, and if I don't I want him I don't gain something like a 1.07 a 3.07 and a 5.07 just because I was lucky enough to draw first overall.

Sorry for the rant. Kind of a long way of saying I like Greg's idea, and I love auction drafting, but I need a league that doesn't resemble my auction league so much even though I like the idea. We are implementing an auction over the first 13 rounds so everyone can build their initial rosters to their liking.

 

[fbomb]

Matt, if you are looking for a way to help struggling teams by providing a different type of offseason free agent distribution process the following idea may interest you. A couple of my leagues have instituted two annual drafts. The order of each is reverse order of the previous year.

The first draft is a 3 round rookies only draft sometime after the NFL draft. Vets cannot be drafted.

The second is a FA draft, with all free agents available. This occurs around Preseason Week 4, after preseason has provided order to the available players. Because there are no offseason FA moves allowed, and the roster size is on the smaller side (22), there are always valuable players available in this August FA draft.

I will also pile on regarding blind bidding for FA's during the season. It's a great system that gives all teams equal shot at the available players. A $100 annual budget that replenishes each year works very well for us.

 

[fbomb]

Ok I tried to edit the above post with my iPhone, but couldn't get to the area I wanted to add the comment... Was too long winded there I guess.

This two draft structure gives struggling teams two shots at improvement - one with the initial rookie draft where they get top picks, and the with the vet draft, when they get the earliest selections for the choice available FA's. It seems to help teams dig themselves out of a hole pretty quickly.

 

[Matt-X3]

First off, thanks for all of the help. Second, I have everyone on board with not having to cut players at the end of the year. That means all 25 players can be kept until the rookie draft, we will expand rosters to a max of 30 posts draft, and have a cut day from a max of 30 back to 25 on the Wendesday between week 1 and week 2.

The only issues we are looking at right now is with the startup draft. I personally like the auction format, but one of my owners is concerned that doing the first 13 rounds as an auction will cause us to miss out on the strategy that comes with a snake draft. Things like trading picks for future picks and being forced to settle for a player after a run on a position. Things like that.

I guess I could use some advice from people who have started dynasty leagues in either or both ways. Is the fairness associated with an auction worth it? I'm concerned with people getting free value out of a top 4 pick that they can trade down from to get extra picks. That's essentially value they got for simply being lucky enough to draw the long straw. Then if they don't trade down they get a stud player nobodoy else had a chance on, and again it's because of luck. Are my concerns valid? There was also a post I saw in the thread where people post the results of their dynasty start up drafts, and one league started out with a 5 round auction followed by a snake draft, and one user posted that a dynasty league started by an auction draft has a higher chance of breaking up in a year or two. Is that true? I'm trying to build a league that will last a good 7-10 years here, and i want to start it off right.

 

[bengalbuck]

First off, thanks for all of the help. Second, I have everyone on board with not having to cut players at the end of the year. That means all 25 players can be kept until the rookie draft, we will expand rosters to a max of 30 posts draft, and have a cut day from a max of 30 back to 25 on the Wendesday between week 1 and week 2.The only issues we are looking at right now is with the startup draft. I personally like the auction format, but one of my owners is concerned that doing the first 13 rounds as an auction will cause us to miss out on the strategy that comes with a snake draft. Things like trading picks for future picks and being forced to settle for a player after a run on a position. Things like that.I guess I could use some advice from people who have started dynasty leagues in either or both ways. Is the fairness associated with an auction worth it? I'm concerned with people getting free value out of a top 4 pick that they can trade down from to get extra picks. That's essentially value they got for simply being lucky enough to draw the long straw. Then if they don't trade down they get a stud player nobodoy else had a chance on, and again it's because of luck. Are my concerns valid? There was also a post I saw in the thread where people post the results of their dynasty start up drafts, and one league started out with a 5 round auction followed by a snake draft, and one user posted that a dynasty league started by an auction draft has a higher chance of breaking up in a year or two. Is that true? I'm trying to build a league that will last a good 7-10 years here, and i want to start it off right.

I don't know that its such a huge advantage to have a top 4 pick that it makes it unfair. You have Megatron, Rice, Foster, McCoy, Rodgers, Newton, Stafford, AJ Green, Julio, Gronk, Graham, CJ2k, Matthews, Richardson, MJD, Nicks, etc. It's a nice advantage to have that early 2nd rounder and that pretty much makes up for not getting one of the top 4 or 5 guys. For example, in a recent startup I was drafting 10th and was able to get Trent Richardson and Ryan Matthews. The guy drafting 12th got AJ Green and Julio Jones. Those duos should stack up decently well against guys who drafted top 4, but then didn't pick again until the 20s.

 

[Matt-X3]

Thanks for the response bengalbuck.

It's not nessesarily the players that I'm concerned about, but the value gotten if someone were to trade out of an early pick. They could get a pile of picks just because they were handed a high pick. I feel like any guy who really wanted to mold his team around a Rodgers or Foster in an auction draft could at a price, but the value they give up doing so (the auction dollars spent) would provide an even value for all remaining teams (by taking a large chunk of that owners capital away) rather than giving away a ton of value to one owner in terms of picks who only gained that value by being lucky.

Does this make sense or am I over thinking it?