Dynasty Rankings (7 Viewers)

[Dr. Awesome]

I usually don't get points for YPC, so yeah, they look similar at the end of the day.So you're in the camp that sees Wells as a safe bet to take a big leap forward next year? Is his overall workload going to go way up? Will he improve drastically as a receiver? Will his efficiency as a runner get better? Cards gonna be in the redzone more?Because if he puts up statlines similar to 2011 in 2012 and beyond, then for fantasy purposes he pretty much IS Cedric Benson 2009 - 2011, no matter how much sexier people perceive him to be.

Just an FYI, but Cedric Benson with 10 TDs looks a lot different than Cedric Benson with 5-6 TDs. He would have been around 12th in both 2009 and 2010 with just 2-3 more TDs each year.

That is an excellent point but touchdowns are imo the hardest to predict. I certainly wouldn't want to gamble on a running back NEEDING 10 touchdowns to justify his value. Especially not with Kolb as the qb.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Even looking at just 2011, he's under 80 yards per game from scrimmage, which is Cedric Bensonesque. Beanie gets more TDs, obviously, but Benson almost makes up for it by being able to at least average 20+ catches during his time as Cinci's lead RB.

80 yards a game would be just under 1,300. Toss in Beanie's 10+ TDs and you get a top 10 back. Benson hasn't shown anywhere near Wells' ability to punch it in at the stripe. He's currently only 10 points out of 10th in my league (.5 PPR), which is what I'm getting at. In dynasty, he looks top 10 to me.

He's been playing through a serious knee injury that will require surgery in the offseason.He's been clearly elite in the games when he had his burst. And his schedule has been difficult with games against Baltimore, Pittsburgh and San Fran.Cedric Benson? This guy hasn't watched Beanie run this season. When healthy, he's a beast - clearly elite. It's his constant injuries that bring down his dynasty value to more of a RB2.

 

[Herm23]

Enough examples that this isn't the case. Teams realize they need depth at RB. Obviously they were ready to move on from Hightower.

You might find good teams at the end of round 1 spending luxury picks on depth at RB, but bad teams don't invest top 45 picks at RB for a "Tim Hightower replacement." They just don't. They can get that in the 4th or 5th round. They invest high picks at RB when they think that they're getting a potential difference maker.

I actually agree with his point somewhat. Teams do spend 2nd round picks on backup running backs or players that aren't viewed as difference makers (Gerhart, Vereen, etc...). However, the concerning part is that Ryan Williams was viewed as a difference maker by an awful lot of people, including plenty of scouts and NFL people. This wasn't a case of a team drafting for depth or to fill a specific need, it was a team drafting a potential difference maker, at least in my opinion. And even if they did draft him simply because of need and to fill depth, they got a potential difference maker in the process, which keeps it a concern for Wells' value.

 

[Herm23]

Even looking at just 2011, he's under 80 yards per game from scrimmage, which is Cedric Bensonesque. Beanie gets more TDs, obviously, but Benson almost makes up for it by being able to at least average 20+ catches during his time as Cinci's lead RB.

80 yards a game would be just under 1,300. Toss in Beanie's 10+ TDs and you get a top 10 back. Benson hasn't shown anywhere near Wells' ability to punch it in at the stripe. He's currently only 10 points out of 10th in my league (.5 PPR), which is what I'm getting at. In dynasty, he looks top 10 to me.

He's been playing through a serious knee injury that will require surgery in the offseason.He's been clearly elite in the games when he had his burst. And his schedule has been difficult with games against Baltimore, Pittsburgh and San Fran.

Cedric Benson? This guy hasn't watched Beanie run this season. When healthy, he's a beast - clearly elite. It's his constant injuries that bring down his dynasty value to more of a RB2.

I disagree with most everything you just said, particularly the bolded portions. Once again, there is that word "burst" being used again when it doesn't really belong. Additionally, I have watched every carry by Beanie Wells in 2011 and I can firmly say that I have not come away thinking he was a beast, elite, or anything close to it at any point. Even last week, during his huge game against St. Louis, I came away thinking how surprised I was that he doesn't have the long speed some said he did and that he got caught from behind twice, adding another knock on him. I am assuming you have watched the majority, if not all, of his carries based on your comments and if you have, it's just funny how 2 people can see the same thing and come away with completely different impressions I guess. I was a big Beanie supporter when he first entered the league, but have somewhat changed my opinion after watching him perform in the NFL. Like I said before, I believe he's above average, but he looks exactly like a player that will have serious questions about his value if/when another above average player is on the roster to challenge his workload. If that other player happens to be more than just above average? Uh oh. Is Ryan Williams that player? I'm not sure, but it's enough of a worry to knock Beanie down a bit.

 

[Warrior]

Even looking at just 2011, he's under 80 yards per game from scrimmage, which is Cedric Bensonesque. Beanie gets more TDs, obviously, but Benson almost makes up for it by being able to at least average 20+ catches during his time as Cinci's lead RB.

80 yards a game would be just under 1,300. Toss in Beanie's 10+ TDs and you get a top 10 back. Benson hasn't shown anywhere near Wells' ability to punch it in at the stripe. He's currently only 10 points out of 10th in my league (.5 PPR), which is what I'm getting at. In dynasty, he looks top 10 to me.

He's been playing through a serious knee injury that will require surgery in the offseason.He's been clearly elite in the games when he had his burst. And his schedule has been difficult with games against Baltimore, Pittsburgh and San Fran.

Cedric Benson? This guy hasn't watched Beanie run this season. When healthy, he's a beast - clearly elite. It's his constant injuries that bring down his dynasty value to more of a RB2.

I disagree with most everything you just said, particularly the bolded portions. Once again, there is that word "burst" being used again when it doesn't really belong. Additionally, I have watched every carry by Beanie Wells in 2011 and I can firmly say that I have not come away thinking he was a beast, elite, or anything close to it at any point. Even last week, during his huge game against St. Louis, I came away thinking how surprised I was that he doesn't have the long speed some said he did and that he got caught from behind twice, adding another knock on him. I am assuming you have watched the majority, if not all, of his carries based on your comments and if you have, it's just funny how 2 people can see the same thing and come away with completely different impressions I guess. I was a big Beanie supporter when he first entered the league, but have somewhat changed my opinion after watching him perform in the NFL. Like I said before, I believe he's above average, but he looks exactly like a player that will have serious questions about his value if/when another above average player is on the roster to challenge his workload. If that other player happens to be more than just above average? Uh oh. Is Ryan Williams that player? I'm not sure, but it's enough of a worry to knock Beanie down a bit.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

To keep the comparisons apples to apples, Benson has averaged about 50 more YFS, 10 more catches, and 3 fewer TDs as a Bengal vs. 2011 Wells if his 11 game pace plays out the rest of the year. In PPR it's pretty identical. In non-PPR it's 13 points over 16 games in Wells' favor. Top 10 RB? Where do you guys slot Wells overall?

 

[jonboltz]

Enough examples that this isn't the case. Teams realize they need depth at RB. Obviously they were ready to move on from Hightower.

You might find good teams at the end of round 1 spending luxury picks on depth at RB, but bad teams don't invest top 45 picks at RB for a "Tim Hightower replacement." They just don't. They can get that in the 4th or 5th round. They invest high picks at RB when they think that they're getting a potential difference maker.

I actually agree with his point somewhat. Teams do spend 2nd round picks on backup running backs or players that aren't viewed as difference makers (Gerhart, Vereen, etc...). However, the concerning part is that Ryan Williams was viewed as a difference maker by an awful lot of people, including plenty of scouts and NFL people. This wasn't a case of a team drafting for depth or to fill a specific need, it was a team drafting a potential difference maker, at least in my opinion. And even if they did draft him simply because of need and to fill depth, they got a potential difference maker in the process, which keeps it a concern for Wells' value.

Arizona had a strong reason to select Williams-- Beanie was injured and ineffective the year before, and they didn't know what they would get from him this year. In a hypothetical world, if Beanie had this type of year last year they likely wouldn't have taken a RB until the later rounds. But of course, that isn't the current scenario. Ryan Williams is certainly a guy that has the ability to challenge for carries, but he is going to have to show it. A few things to consider -- first, I believe Beanie's playing time is in his hands. He will absolutely be the primary ball carrier until the point where he shows he cannot do that (be that injury or some severe loss of ability). second, we need to also look at the injury history of Ryan Williams. All the individuals complaining about Beanie's injury history might not realize that Williams also had trouble with injury in college, and missed more games in his career than Beanie. His current injury isn't minor, and while people often come back from this injury, it is normally not until their 2nd year that they are back to the same level pre-injury. With this injury to Williams, it would not surprise me at all that Beanie is getting 250 carries next year, with 75-100 going to Williams to give Beanie a breather and work Ryan into the offense.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Enough examples that this isn't the case. Teams realize they need depth at RB. Obviously they were ready to move on from Hightower.

You might find good teams at the end of round 1 spending luxury picks on depth at RB, but bad teams don't invest top 45 picks at RB for a "Tim Hightower replacement." They just don't. They can get that in the 4th or 5th round. They invest high picks at RB when they think that they're getting a potential difference maker.

Minnesota invested a pick for a "Chester Taylor" replacement. Houston invested a pick for a "Chris Brown" or "Steve Slaton replacement". Miami drafted Thomas but signed Bush and named him starter. A lot of examples. All open to interpretation I'm sure.Certainly you could say Williams was brought in for competition. You could say the same about Tate/Foster. It doesn't reflect on the team's confidence in the incumbent toooo much.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Even looking at just 2011, he's under 80 yards per game from scrimmage, which is Cedric Bensonesque. Beanie gets more TDs, obviously, but Benson almost makes up for it by being able to at least average 20+ catches during his time as Cinci's lead RB.

80 yards a game would be just under 1,300. Toss in Beanie's 10+ TDs and you get a top 10 back. Benson hasn't shown anywhere near Wells' ability to punch it in at the stripe. He's currently only 10 points out of 10th in my league (.5 PPR), which is what I'm getting at. In dynasty, he looks top 10 to me.

He's been playing through a serious knee injury that will require surgery in the offseason.He's been clearly elite in the games when he had his burst. And his schedule has been difficult with games against Baltimore, Pittsburgh and San Fran.

Cedric Benson? This guy hasn't watched Beanie run this season. When healthy, he's a beast - clearly elite. It's his constant injuries that bring down his dynasty value to more of a RB2.

I disagree with most everything you just said, particularly the bolded portions. Once again, there is that word "burst" being used again when it doesn't really belong. Additionally, I have watched every carry by Beanie Wells in 2011 and I can firmly say that I have not come away thinking he was a beast, elite, or anything close to it at any point. Even last week, during his huge game against St. Louis, I came away thinking how surprised I was that he doesn't have the long speed some said he did and that he got caught from behind twice, adding another knock on him. I am assuming you have watched the majority, if not all, of his carries based on your comments and if you have, it's just funny how 2 people can see the same thing and come away with completely different impressions I guess. I was a big Beanie supporter when he first entered the league, but have somewhat changed my opinion after watching him perform in the NFL. Like I said before, I believe he's above average, but he looks exactly like a player that will have serious questions about his value if/when another above average player is on the roster to challenge his workload. If that other player happens to be more than just above average? Uh oh. Is Ryan Williams that player? I'm not sure, but it's enough of a worry to knock Beanie down a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtXvknVWBL0I thought he looked pretty good in this game

 

[jonboltz]

To keep the comparisons apples to apples, Benson has averaged about 50 more YFS, 10 more catches, and 3 fewer TDs as a Bengal vs. 2011 Wells if his 11 game pace plays out the rest of the year. In PPR it's pretty identical. In non-PPR it's 13 points over 16 games in Wells' favor. Top 10 RB? Where do you guys slot Wells overall?

I only think there is one person arguing that Wells is elite/top 10, unless I'm mistaken. I rank him decidedly outside of the following: Rice, Foster, McCoy, ADP, Forte, McFadden, MJD, Murray, Charles, CJ1K, Matthews, Ingram. Thats 12 guys, and I would feel ok with ranking him anywhere after that. Come next year, I'd probably end up adding 1-2 of the rookies ahead of him. So that would be just about RB15, in a mix with Gore, Turner, Bradshaw, Stewart, and to lesser extent Lynch, Bush, Blount and F-Jax.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

To keep the comparisons apples to apples, Benson has averaged about 50 more YFS, 10 more catches, and 3 fewer TDs as a Bengal vs. 2011 Wells if his 11 game pace plays out the rest of the year. In PPR it's pretty identical. In non-PPR it's 13 points over 16 games in Wells' favor. Top 10 RB? Where do you guys slot Wells overall?

I only think there is one person arguing that Wells is elite/top 10, unless I'm mistaken. I rank him decidedly outside of the following: Rice, Foster, McCoy, ADP, Forte, McFadden, MJD, Murray, Charles, CJ1K, Matthews, Ingram. Thats 12 guys, and I would feel ok with ranking him anywhere after that. Come next year, I'd probably end up adding 1-2 of the rookies ahead of him. So that would be just about RB15, in a mix with Gore, Turner, Bradshaw, Stewart, and to lesser extent Lynch, Bush, Blount and F-Jax.

Has Mendenhall fallen this far or was he forgotten? Where would you rank him?

 

[jonboltz]

To keep the comparisons apples to apples, Benson has averaged about 50 more YFS, 10 more catches, and 3 fewer TDs as a Bengal vs. 2011 Wells if his 11 game pace plays out the rest of the year. In PPR it's pretty identical. In non-PPR it's 13 points over 16 games in Wells' favor. Top 10 RB? Where do you guys slot Wells overall?

I only think there is one person arguing that Wells is elite/top 10, unless I'm mistaken. I rank him decidedly outside of the following: Rice, Foster, McCoy, ADP, Forte, McFadden, MJD, Murray, Charles, CJ1K, Matthews, Ingram. Thats 12 guys, and I would feel ok with ranking him anywhere after that. Come next year, I'd probably end up adding 1-2 of the rookies ahead of him. So that would be just about RB15, in a mix with Gore, Turner, Bradshaw, Stewart, and to lesser extent Lynch, Bush, Blount and F-Jax.

Has Mendenhall fallen this far or was he forgotten? Where would you rank him?

Just forgotten...I'd have him in that mix with Bush/Blount, mostly cause I see Pitt continuing to focus more on the passing game.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Enough examples that this isn't the case. Teams realize they need depth at RB. Obviously they were ready to move on from Hightower.

You might find good teams at the end of round 1 spending luxury picks on depth at RB, but bad teams don't invest top 45 picks at RB for a "Tim Hightower replacement." They just don't. They can get that in the 4th or 5th round. They invest high picks at RB when they think that they're getting a potential difference maker.

Maybe that's why they're bad in the first place?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If you believe that his durability issues are luck. Like McFadden, Wells has a skinny lower body and a tendency to run hard. I don't think those two traits work well together and I suspect it's not a coincidence that Beanie and DMC have been frequent visitors to the training table during their brief NFL careers.

There's obviously some talent there, but he's one of those guys I'll never trust. I've never owned him on a dynasty team and I doubt I ever will.

I have to agree with EBF. While 'many a player has been fine,' many a player has not. Durability counts. It counts a lot. You have to mark DMC down for the lack of it, and also Wells. At least, until they show they can play a couple full seasons without missing significant time.

What is considered significant time? I've said this in many threads, but honestly, how many RBs have shown they can play a full 16 game season without injury on a consistent basis? LT is the only one that really comes to mind of the past 10 years. Chris Johnson hasn't missed regular season games yet. Even the guys that have been studs for years like MJD, SJAX, Turner, and Gore have ALL had injuries. LeSean McCoy maybe, but as I type this he's pretty questionable for tonight.

Where are these bionic freak of nature guys? AP was one, but even he has now succumbed to the injury bug.

I understand that Wells has a label. He's also labeled as a guy that can't play effectively if he's nicked up. I feel like he's quelled that notion a bit this season with big games when he's appeared on the injury report.

In a standard scoring league I can see him right on the cusp of the top 10, and higher if he can finish 2011 strong.

Agreed. The "injury prone" lable for RBs is ridiculous:Here's some of the other starting RBs that have been injured and missed games this season:

RB Jamaal Charles, KC Torn ACL - Out for season

RB Arian Foster, HOU Pulled Hamstring - Missed 2.5 games

RB Rashard Mendenhall, PIT Hamstring - Missed 1 game

RB Darren McFadden, OAK Foot sprain - missed multiple games

RB Frank Gore, SF Sprained ankle - limited in 2 games (has a history)

RB Steven Jackson, STL quad injury - Missed essentially 2 games and was limited in 3rd

RB Peyton Hillis, CLE Strep Throat & Hamstring - missed MULTIPLE games

RB Mark Ingram, NO 12 Bruised heel in week 6 - missed two games

RB LeGarrette Blount, TB Knee - missed 3 games

RB Jahvid Best, DET Concussion - out for season

RB Felix Jones, DAL HAS, shoulder - missed 4+ games

RB Ryan Mathews, SD - various missed parts of a few games

RB Knowshon Moreno, DEN hamstring/ACL - missed games early, then out for the season

RB Joseph Addai, IND Hamstring - missed ~3 games

RB Marshawn Lynch, SEA Back - 1 game

RB Ryan Grant, GB knee - missed 2 games

RB Tim Hightower, WAS torn ACL out for the year

RB Adrian Peterson, MIN knee - missed at least two games

RB Ahmad Bradshaw, NYG foot - missed at least 4 games

RB Daniel Thomas, MIA hamstring - missed multiple games, limited

RB Fred Jackson, BUF - knee - out for the seaon

RB Beanie Wells, ARI - knee - missed a game, limited in others

That's 22 or well over 50% of the league.

and that's leaving out backup RBs like Willis McGahee, Motario Hardesty, and Earnest Graham that were injured and missed games while replacing their team's starters and rookies like Mikel LeShoure and Ryan Williams who got injured during the preseason before they even got a chance.

So is Beanie and McFadden injury prone or are NFL RBs generally injury prone?

ETA: and that's all just THIS season alone - look at any year.

I've been watching football for 40 years and I can tell you that durability is one of the most under rated qualities in a quality RB. Yes, they need talent. But some guys ARE more injury prone than others. The great ones are durable. Most of the guys on your list are not elite backs and never will be. Of the ones who are, they have been able to play and get many more touches than McFadden has. In four seasons McFadden has managed more than 200 runs only one season and he has never played more than 13 games.

ADP in 5 seasons has had over 230 carries every season until this one and has never played less than 14 games until this season. What your numbers above omit is the ability to play hurt and be effective. McFadden does not have that and he is a slow healter to boot. If you can't see that then you aren't paying attention.

Sjax is the next most elite back in that group you mention. But his career is starkly different from McFadden's. He has played in 110 out of 122 possible games in his 8 year career and he has only had less than 230 carries twice in those 8 years.

Frank Gore has had a couple of devastating knee injuries but he has been able to avoid the little nick knack injuries that seem to plague McFadden. He has played in 95 of 106 possible games. And in those 7 seasons he has only had one season with less than 200 carries.

The only other guy in that list who deserves mention as an ELITE dynasty HB is Foster. But his career is much shorter so it is harder to evaluate. He has been injured this year, that's very true. But he has done something in his short career that McFadden has yet to do in four seasons: play all 16 games.

McFadden contrasts sharply with another HB that you didn't mention: Ray Rice. I much prefer Rice in dynasty because he has the durability of a great back as well as the talent. His overall talent may not be quite as good as McFadden's, although they are close, but he has proven more durable. In the last three seasons as a starter he hasn't missed one game and he has played hurt effectively.

I am not saying that McFadden is not talented. He is. He has elite talent. But he is not an elite dynasty HB because he has not proven that he can be durable. After he has one full 16 game season without missing time then we can talk.

I agree that the "all time greats" were durable and that's a major reason why they end up having the careers that they have. My implication wasn't that any of those backs on the list are "elite", its just simply to show that RB by nature is a tough position to play and guys get injured. Most of the starting RBs in the league have already missed at least one game this season.Frankly I'm not really a big McFadden fan at all - but sometimes injuries just come down to hard luck. Guys like Fred Taylor and Frank Gore were often called "soft", "fragile" or "injury prone" until all of a sudden they weren't anymore becuase they strung together a few healthy seasons.

Most people thought of Peterson as a rock and Wells as soft. Wells has missed one game this season while Peterson has now missed two (and perhaps more). I don't think it's all that likely or unlikely that McFadden plays a 16 game schedule next season. I'm not going to pretend to be able to guess if he will or will not.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

What if 2011 Wells represents his upside? After all, he HAS been healthier than he was in any college or pro season prior. And the guy the team brought in to either compete with or spell him WAS lost for the year in preseason. Isn't a reasonable forward-looking projection for Chris Wells somewhere between the 2010 and 2011 versions? More dinged up than 2011, but less than in 2010. Ryan Williams getting somewhere in the 30 - 40% range as far as RB touches...

 

[DoubleG]

What if 2011 Wells represents his upside? After all, he HAS been healthier than he was in any college or pro season prior. And the guy the team brought in to either compete with or spell him WAS lost for the year in preseason. Isn't a reasonable forward-looking projection for Chris Wells somewhere between the 2010 and 2011 versions? More dinged up than 2011, but less than in 2010. Ryan Williams getting somewhere in the 30 - 40% range as far as RB touches...

There are so many assumptions built into this post, it's not funny. First off, you're assuming that he will somehow average a number of touches based on some combination of 2011 (when he's the starter and lead back) and 2010 - when he missed several game due to injury, and averaged less than 9 carries a game and less than 3.5 YPC. While this season 4.7 & in 2009 4.5 YPC. So basically, to support your "point" you want to assume his worst year of the 3 is closer to his average. Secondly - and more importantly - you are assuming that Williams will be healthy enough to cut into Wells' carries significantly - a guy who doesn't yet have a regular season carry on his resume.Third, you're presuming that the Cardinals want to replace a 23 year old RB who is averaging 4.7 YPC with no QB this season and just set the Cardinals all-time rushing record - and that the 23 year old is doomed to be more injured than he was this past year. IMHO, that's waaaaayyy too many assumptions - all that fly against what has actually happened on the fiedl this past season.

 

[Herm23]

What if 2011 Wells represents his upside? After all, he HAS been healthier than he was in any college or pro season prior. And the guy the team brought in to either compete with or spell him WAS lost for the year in preseason. Isn't a reasonable forward-looking projection for Chris Wells somewhere between the 2010 and 2011 versions? More dinged up than 2011, but less than in 2010. Ryan Williams getting somewhere in the 30 - 40% range as far as RB touches...

The portion in bold is really the most important part of the entire discussion on Beanie. I think it would be a fool's errand to expect much more than what Beanie is currently doing in 2011. He has no challenge to his workload whatsoever and, as Coeur de Lion mentions, he has had a healthier season than he ever has while playing high level football (college or pro). His season this year has been good, but it STILL doesn't warrant him being a top 10 dynasty running back, as was discussed earlier (and it seems the "argument" was misplaced in the first place, as most agree he isn't. Not sure how we got off on that tangent). He's somewhere in that RB11 - RB15 mix in what has to be considered a great result of a season for Beanie. The downside, however, is that if this is Beanie's best and it STILL isn't top 10 worthy AND he has injury concerns that can't be ignored at this point AND he has Ryan Williams looming, there are enough question marks to warrant downgrading him further than just the RB11 - RB15 territory. For instance, what exactly is the difference between Blount and Beanie? Even if Williams becomes a flop, the threat for a workload still exists at this point in time, whereas there isn't any threat at all on Blount's team. How about Beanie and Bradshaw? Both have legitimate injury concerns and Bradshaw has already been locked into a form of timeshare, yet STILL produced at roughly the same level as Beanie, who has no timeshare whatsoever (Bradshaw is averaging 81.7 yards and 0.85 touchdowns per game and Beanie is averaging 87.4 yards and 0.80 touchdowns per game this season). I can't fault anyone for having him somewhere in the 11-15 range, but I also can't fault someone for having him lower than that given the legitimate concerns surrounding the future production.

 

[jonboltz]

What if 2011 Wells represents his upside? After all, he HAS been healthier than he was in any college or pro season prior. And the guy the team brought in to either compete with or spell him WAS lost for the year in preseason. Isn't a reasonable forward-looking projection for Chris Wells somewhere between the 2010 and 2011 versions? More dinged up than 2011, but less than in 2010. Ryan Williams getting somewhere in the 30 - 40% range as far as RB touches...

The portion in bold is really the most important part of the entire discussion on Beanie. I think it would be a fool's errand to expect much more than what Beanie is currently doing in 2011.

He is on pace for 260 carries this year. I don't think it is foolish to suggest that he cannot be a 300-carry back barring injuries.

 

[Boone22]

What if 2011 Wells represents his upside? After all, he HAS been healthier than he was in any college or pro season prior. And the guy the team brought in to either compete with or spell him WAS lost for the year in preseason. Isn't a reasonable forward-looking projection for Chris Wells somewhere between the 2010 and 2011 versions? More dinged up than 2011, but less than in 2010. Ryan Williams getting somewhere in the 30 - 40% range as far as RB touches...

The portion in bold is really the most important part of the entire discussion on Beanie. I think it would be a fool's errand to expect much more than what Beanie is currently doing in 2011. He has no challenge to his workload whatsoever and, as Coeur de Lion mentions, he has had a healthier season than he ever has while playing high level football (college or pro). His season this year has been good, but it STILL doesn't warrant him being a top 10 dynasty running back, as was discussed earlier (and it seems the "argument" was misplaced in the first place, as most agree he isn't. Not sure how we got off on that tangent). He's somewhere in that RB11 - RB15 mix in what has to be considered a great result of a season for Beanie. The downside, however, is that if this is Beanie's best and it STILL isn't top 10 worthy AND he has injury concerns that can't be ignored at this point AND he has Ryan Williams looming, there are enough question marks to warrant downgrading him further than just the RB11 - RB 15 territory. For instance, what exactly is the difference between Blount and Beanie? Even if Williams becomes a flop, the threat for a workload still exists at this point in time, whereas there isn't any threat at all on Blount's team. How about Beanie and Bradshaw? Both have legitimate injury concerns and Bradshaw has already been locked into a form of timeshare, yet STILL produced at roughly the same level as Beanie without any timeshare (Bradshaw is averaging 81.7 yards and 0.85 touchdowns per game and Beanie is averaging 87.4 yards and 0.80 touchdowns per game this season). I can't fault anyone for having him somewhere in the 11-15 range, but I also can't fault someone for having him lower than that given the legitimate concerns surrounding the future production.

I don't see the argument. I don't know who (if anyone) actually said he should be considered a top 10 RB. But I think almost everyone who is disagreeing with Coeur de Lion IS saying that he's a solid #2 RB with #1 RB upside. The Benson comparison is just silly (as several people have pointed out) especially when you take into account Beanie's age and talent level compared to Benson. Right now Wells currently ranks as RB #11 in both my leagues. If that's his upside I'll take that every day of the week. If he loses a little time to Williams next year then he falls comfortably into the solid #2 RB territory.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

He's played in all but one game, and had zero competition, and is on pace for 260. Even if we dismiss the durability concerns as bad luck, in the past, even mediocre competition has been enough to take significant touches away.

He could have a 300 carry season or two in him, but I wouldn't project him to start rocking them out at this point.

In PPR i honestly have a hard time putting him in the top 20 - he's currently 18th with quite a bit going right for him.

 

[jonboltz]

He's played in all but one game, and had zero competition, and is on pace for 260. Even if we dismiss the durability concerns as bad luck, in the past, even mediocre competition has been enough to take significant touches away.He could have a 300 carry season or two in him, but I wouldn't project him to start rocking them out at this point.In PPR i honestly have a hard time putting him in the top 20 - he's currently 18th with quite a bit going right for him.

He missed one game entirely, half of a second game, and was clearly limited in 3-4 overall. Even if you just give him his average game in the one he missed, he moves up to 13th in PPR. I would also thing that he has room to improve upon his 6 catches.

 

[Instinctive]

The limiting factor of Beanie Wells is not Beanie Wells. It's the Arizona Cardinals and their sucking. With any credible threat of a passing game, Wells could be doing even better than he is now. I think that in the awful situation he is in right now, it's actually a bit unbelievable he's doing as well as he is this year.

 

[Concept Coop]

The limiting factor of Beanie Wells is not Beanie Wells. It's the Arizona Cardinals and their sucking. With any credible threat of a passing game, Wells could be doing even better than he is now. I think that in the awful situation he is in right now, it's actually a bit unbelievable he's doing as well as he is this year.

This.Even if this is Wells' ceiling, his fantasy numbers have room to improve.

 

[Instinctive]

I usually don't get points for YPC, so yeah, they look similar at the end of the day.

So you're in the camp that sees Wells as a safe bet to take a big leap forward next year? Is his overall workload going to go way up? Will he improve drastically as a receiver? Will his efficiency as a runner get better? Cards gonna be in the redzone more?

Because if he puts up statlines similar to 2011 in 2012 and beyond, then for fantasy purposes he pretty much IS Cedric Benson 2009 - 2011, no matter how much sexier people perceive him to be.

Please don't be offended, because it's gonna sound like I'm insulting you here, but that's not my intent:The bolded is an idiotic argument, and there are many reasons why. If you are trying to project what a guy is going to do in the future, yards per carry/reception/touch is a much better, reliable predictor than aggregates from games/seasons. It has caused people to repeatedly mis-evaluate good players as bad and bad players as good. You absolutely need to look at rate numbers.

You also need to look at situations that surround those numbers. Sam Hinkie, who pioneered and created the draft value chart that most NFL teams now use or evolved from (don't pick RBs high, CBs and DEs higher success rate, etc...) says it best: Is a guy getting good numbers for a reason? Is he in the right place at the right time? In basketball, the 5th member of the Fab Five looked like a can't miss prospect: but it turns out that was because every game he got to guard the 5th best guy on the opposing team, and the opposing team;s fifth best defender guarded him. OF COURSE he looked good - had he been the go-to option on another team, being guarded by a top defender each and every game, he would have looked very different.

The same is true here: you have to use rate stats, but with sense. You can't entirely rely on them, because Jerious Norwood is not, and never was going to be, a lead back. It is/was clear that his team(s) did not view him as such, even though he had great rate stats.

In the case of Wells v. Benson, you look at their aggregate stats and say "same player." I dig deeper. I see that Wells has performed much better as a runner, but:

The Cardinals convert 2 less third down opportunities per game.

The Cardinals rush the ball 4 less times per game.

The Cardinals have the ball for 3 less minutes per game.

The Cardinals run 3 less plays per game.

The Cardinals defense is drastically worse, which puts them in pass mode more often: measures, ypc allowed, ypa allowed, total rush yards allowed, pass yards allowed, TDs allowed, points allowed...

Beanie averages a higher YPC than the rest of the Cardinals rushers.

Benson averages the SAME YPC as the rest of the Bengals who have run the ball.

You may not get points for YPC, but it clearly tells a different story of which player would be more valuable in the FUTURE...isn't that what you try to do in dynasty?

ETA: I took the stats from NFL.com on the team profile pages

 

[LivingTheDream]

I usually don't get points for YPC, so yeah, they look similar at the end of the day.

So you're in the camp that sees Wells as a safe bet to take a big leap forward next year? Is his overall workload going to go way up? Will he improve drastically as a receiver? Will his efficiency as a runner get better? Cards gonna be in the redzone more?

Because if he puts up statlines similar to 2011 in 2012 and beyond, then for fantasy purposes he pretty much IS Cedric Benson 2009 - 2011, no matter how much sexier people perceive him to be.

Please don't be offended, because it's gonna sound like I'm insulting you here, but that's not my intent:The bolded is an idiotic argument, and there are many reasons why. If you are trying to project what a guy is going to do in the future, yards per carry/reception/touch is a much better, reliable predictor than aggregates from games/seasons. It has caused people to repeatedly mis-evaluate good players as bad and bad players as good. You absolutely need to look at rate numbers.

You also need to look at situations that surround those numbers. Sam Hinkie, who pioneered and created the draft value chart that most NFL teams now use or evolved from (don't pick RBs high, CBs and DEs higher success rate, etc...) says it best: Is a guy getting good numbers for a reason? Is he in the right place at the right time? In basketball, the 5th member of the Fab Five looked like a can't miss prospect: but it turns out that was because every game he got to guard the 5th best guy on the opposing team, and the opposing team;s fifth best defender guarded him. OF COURSE he looked good - had he been the go-to option on another team, being guarded by a top defender each and every game, he would have looked very different.

The same is true here: you have to use rate stats, but with sense. You can't entirely rely on them, because Jerious Norwood is not, and never was going to be, a lead back. It is/was clear that his team(s) did not view him as such, even though he had great rate stats.

In the case of Wells v. Benson, you look at their aggregate stats and say "same player." I dig deeper. I see that Wells has performed much better as a runner, but:

The Cardinals convert 2 less third down opportunities per game.

The Cardinals rush the ball 4 less times per game.

The Cardinals have the ball for 3 less minutes per game.

The Cardinals run 3 less plays per game.

The Cardinals defense is drastically worse, which puts them in pass mode more often: measures, ypc allowed, ypa allowed, total rush yards allowed, pass yards allowed, TDs allowed, points allowed...

Beanie averages a higher YPC than the rest of the Cardinals rushers.

Benson averages the SAME YPC as the rest of the Bengals who have run the ball.

You may not get points for YPC, but it clearly tells a different story of which player would be more valuable in the FUTURE...isn't that what you try to do in dynasty?

ETA: I took the stats from NFL.com on the team profile pages

You could also add that Benson is 28 with almost 1500 career carries (and high workload in college). Wells is 23 with about 500 career carries.

 

[Instinctive]

You could also add that Benson is 28 with almost 1500 career carries (and high workload in college). Wells is 23 with about 500 career carries.

I thought that was irrelevant - the point I was addressing did not say Wells should be worth the same or less than Benson, only that Wells was performing just like Benson. Wells is not performing just like Benson, he is outclassing him - even from an inferior situation.

 

[az_prof]

I would probably prefer Wells to Benson simply because of the age difference. Beyond that, neither are elite IMO. Benson is a better RB2 right now, but I think Wells is slightly more valuable because of his age. Lots of good points in this discussion on both sides though.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I'd agree that Wells clearly outclasses Benson in terms of talent or on the eyeball test as an NFL back. He's a MUCH better player, obviously. I'm also certainly not saying Benson is worth more in dynasty FF. He's not close. But Benson's proven 300 carry ability is something Wells is completely lacking at this point, and in my opinion, it is worth noting that his career year (thus far) is pretty simlar, fantasy wise, to an average Benson year. Just trying to offer some balance in the face of "clearly elite" and "top-10," neither of which he is.

 

[Instinctive]

I'd agree that Wells clearly outclasses Benson in terms of talent or on the eyeball test as an NFL back. He's a MUCH better player, obviously. I'm also certainly not saying Benson is worth more in dynasty FF. He's not close. But Benson's proven 300 carry ability is something Wells is completely lacking at this point, and in my opinion, it is worth noting that his career year (thus far) is pretty simlar, fantasy wise, to an average Benson year. Just trying to offer some balance in the face of "clearly elite" and "top-10," neither of which he is.

Who is saying that he is top 10? Did I say that? (I honestly want to know - b/c I don't think he's a top 10 guy) I must have skimmed through that.It looked ot me like he was getting bashed pretty hard. I think he's having a pretty damn good year under awful circumstances, and could definitely be a top 10 guy, and has elite talent, but he isn't a top 10 guy right now. Perhaps around 15 for me, but I'd have to actually sit down and rank it out to be sure.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Who is saying that he is top 10? Did I say that? (I honestly want to know - b/c I don't think he's a top 10 guy) I must have skimmed through that.

Maybe I'm stuck on that because it was the question posed when Wells initially came up. Sorry to beat a dead horse. I've probably sounded more negative on Wells than I actually am trying to refute an argument that only 3/15 people were making.For those who have watched a lot of Wells (I haven't) this year:1.) Is he good enough to maintain his current workload in the face of a challenge (say Ryan Williams comes back and is decent, or they sign another strong backup/good RBBC type player)? Is he on the level where he's gonna get the lion's share if he's healthy, period?2.) What's up with his lack of receptions? Bad hands? Can't block? Just not asked to by the coaches? If he has a reasonable expectation of developing into even a 30 catch guy I'd feel better about him in the PPR league where I'm kicking his tires...Genuinely having a hard time getting a handle on this player. Not in Arizona and haven't owned a Card since Boldin left, so I haven't watched him much at all. Stats scream mediocre, but definitely seems to pass the "eyeball test" for both myself (mainly from highlights) and quite a few others, who have seen much more.

 

[Grahamburn]

I posed the original question on Wells:

Is Chris Wells a top 10 dynasty RB IF he has a strong finish to the season?

I personally think he's damn close, and a 4.7 ypc along with the game he just had doesn't scream mediocre to me in ANY way.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

a 4.7 ypc along with the game he just had doesn't scream mediocre to me in ANY way.

Tim Hightower ran for a 4.8 average last year in the same offense. The Rams have the worst run defense in the NFL. Personally, what he did against the Ravens might be his most impressive NFL performance this year.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Let's talk Kevin Kolb.

EBF mentioned one interesting thing in that Newton #1 thread. He said he pays a great deal of attention to ypa for a qb as he feels that's the biggest key in determining future success.

While I'm sure it's not the sole factor in predicting the future, Kolb is currently 1th in the league with a 7.8 ypa. It's not some otherworldly average but it certainly goes against the stereotype of him checking down constantly. I realize stats can be misleading but 7.8 puts him with Romo. And above Ryan, Stafford, Dalton, Vick, Cutler, and every other scrub or mediocre talent. And it might not be a fluke. In 2010 he had a 6.3 ypa (189 attempts). But in 2009 he had a 7.7 ypa (96 attempts).

When you consider the o-line he has to play behind that seems like it's actually not a bad showing for his first year with Arizona. Yet most folks seem to be really down on him. Do I need to watch the games to see how bad he really is or is this kid a buy low target?

Btw Bradford ranks lower than Painter. Only McCoy and Gabbert have lower ypa's.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

He has no challenge to his workload whatsoever and, as Coeur de Lion mentions, he has had a healthier season than he ever has while playing high level football (college or pro).

It hasn't been true either time its been said now though. He played all 16 games as a rookie with no significant injuries and this season he's playing through a serious knee injury that will most likely require offseason surgery. He surely can be much healthier next season or any season beyond.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Let's talk Kevin Kolb.

EBF mentioned one interesting thing in that Newton #1 thread. He said he pays a great deal of attention to ypa for a qb as he feels that's the biggest key in determining future success.

While I'm sure it's not the sole factor in predicting the future, Kolb is currently 11th (fixed) in the league with a 7.8 ypa. It's not some otherworldly average but it certainly goes against the stereotype of him checking down constantly. [...]

Btw Bradford ranks lower than Painter. Only McCoy and Gabbert have lower ypa's.

Bradford is a much better buy low than Kolb. Even if you're saying buy Kolb for 10 or Bradford for 25, I'd much rather buy Bradford for 25. Throw EBF's stat preferences out the window. Kolb is a good rhythm QB. He can hit guys in stride if he is comfortable with the offense. It took him 3 years to get to that point in Philly. He's shown some of it in AZ, although I think he has a bit more work to be fully comfortable there still. There's certain intangibles he lacks like pocket presence and making something out of nothing. He's a fine system QB like Orton or Moore but isn't going to turn a team around.

Paying a ham sandwich to get short term QB2 production isn't the worst idea, but anything more than that I'd look elsewhere.

 

[Crazy Tony]

What do you guys make of SURPRISE 180s some players have had from expectation or previous season?

What can be learned going forward....

QB:

Bradford...expected harder year but this is rough.

A.Smith... not huge points but not turning over. Kept his job, coming around and likely to get extension

Freeman... awesome to ugly...not him necessarily but production.

Newton... don't think anyone could've predicted big first year.

Tewbow... Winning games keeps you on the field. Rushing TDs score points. Passing is bonus.

Kolb... decent but probably and under perform. Not game breaker this year.

Rivers... having a rough year. Is he allowed to have one? Missing Sproles is that the issue?

WR

DeSean Jackson... Exceeded all bust expectations for contract year. I believe he'll come around.

Steve Smith CAR... Great numbers regardless. How long will it continue?

Victory Cruz... From 2010 preseason fluke, to IR...to WR4 to Legit Player...big games yet 'NYG weren't going to have good passing year' with loss of Boss, SSMITH and other injuries.

AJ Green... is it a surprise he's already performing at level hoped for w/ his QB?

STL WRs...expected someone to emerge is big name. Didn't think it would be Lloyd.

A. Brown...exceeded expectations Wallace is the man...E. Sanders was there too.

A Roberts... the "it" 2011 WR Sleeper hit snooze.

RB

Ingram... quiet rookie year and RBBC. Not doing bad.

Helu... FBGs were pretty down on this guy, i noticed he had monster combine #s and speed.

DMurray...RB3 to starter...some predicted this (why I drafted him) but some really big games. Is he potential 2012 let down?

Forte... exceed production expectations with his OFF.

FJax.... Same as Forte. Has always been a great Yards from Scrimmage guy. Kicked ### while healthy.

Sproles... 430yd 2td, 67rec 522 4td, 957retyd 1td. Way better than R. Bush ever did isn't it?

Others...many miss out due to injury...others step in and do mediocre hard to say. (CLE RB situation comes to mind...Hillis, Hardesty, Ogbannaya)

TE

Kendricks... not anywhere near where we'd hoped. Still early.

Scott Chandler...Who?

Typical top 5-7 guys will go to and some fill ins or injuries.

 

[squistion]

Let's talk Kevin Kolb.

EBF mentioned one interesting thing in that Newton #1 thread. He said he pays a great deal of attention to ypa for a qb as he feels that's the biggest key in determining future success.

While I'm sure it's not the sole factor in predicting the future, Kolb is currently 11th (fixed) in the league with a 7.8 ypa. It's not some otherworldly average but it certainly goes against the stereotype of him checking down constantly. [...]

Btw Bradford ranks lower than Painter. Only McCoy and Gabbert have lower ypa's.

Bradford is a much better buy low than Kolb. Even if you're saying buy Kolb for 10 or Bradford for 25, I'd much rather buy Bradford for 25. Throw EBF's stat preferences out the window. Kolb is a good rhythm QB. He can hit guys in stride if he is comfortable with the offense. It took him 3 years to get to that point in Philly. He's shown some of it in AZ, although I think he has a bit more work to be fully comfortable there still. There's certain intangibles he lacks like pocket presence and making something out of nothing. He's a fine system QB like Orton or Moore but isn't going to turn a team around.

Paying a ham sandwich to get short term QB2 production isn't the worst idea, but anything more than that I'd look elsewhere.

I usually do.

 

[thriftyrocker]

What do you guys make of SURPRISE 180s some players have had from expectation or previous season? What can be learned going forward....

A.Smith - I think you can add Fitzpatrick and say it's better to be smart than good if you want to hold a job as NFL QB. Both guys are replaceable and shouldn't have high dynasty value but have done okay for their teams.Freeman and Bradford - hold solid QBs through their sophomore slumps. Given how depressed the value of guys like Flacco and Ryan are, don't overpay for rookie QBs who don't already offer VBD.Newton and Tebow - bump RG3, don't overdraft Luck.Rivers - He'll be fine.Victor Cruz and Antonio Brown - Pay attention to playmakers even if they're buried.A Roberts - Small-ish possession WRs are dime a dozen. Can add Emmanuel Sanders here too. For each Mason there are 2000 guys eaten up and spit out.Ingram - Think he's a solid buy. His and the Vereen/Ridley situation make you wary of investing in known RBBC clusterbombs, but I'd still blindly follow talent.CLE RB situation - Look out for whatever RB they draft next year.Kendricks - Hands matter. Will holding out hope for him though.

 

[EBF]

Let's talk Kevin Kolb. EBF mentioned one interesting thing in that Newton #1 thread. He said he pays a great deal of attention to ypa for a qb as he feels that's the biggest key in determining future success. While I'm sure it's not the sole factor in predicting the future, Kolb is currently 1th in the league with a 7.8 ypa. It's not some otherworldly average but it certainly goes against the stereotype of him checking down constantly. I realize stats can be misleading but 7.8 puts him with Romo. And above Ryan, Stafford, Dalton, Vick, Cutler, and every other scrub or mediocre talent. And it might not be a fluke. In 2010 he had a 6.3 ypa (189 attempts). But in 2009 he had a 7.7 ypa (96 attempts). When you consider the o-line he has to play behind that seems like it's actually not a bad showing for his first year with Arizona. Yet most folks seem to be really down on him. Do I need to watch the games to see how bad he really is or is this kid a buy low target?Btw Bradford ranks lower than Painter. Only McCoy and Gabbert have lower ypa's.

Looking at ypa is how I was able to get Roethlisberger so cheap in so many of my leagues after his rookie season when he was still considered a very poor FF QB. I think it's a great stat because it's pretty hard for a bad QB to fluke his way to an elite ypa average. It just doesn't seem to happen. Year in and year out, the category is ruled by the best QBs in the league. I definitely noticed Kolb's surprisingly high rank on that list. Makes you wonder. His stats really aren't that terrible when you look at them. On the other hand, he hasn't been winning games and his number of pass attempts is pretty low. I wouldn't be surprised to see that ypa drop to more mediocre levels by the end of the season. I don't see Kolb ever becoming a superstar, but maybe he can have sort of a Matt Hasselbeck type of career. Hasselbeck got some hype before the Seahawks traded for him. He stunk up the joint in his first season there before eventually becoming a solid player. I feel like that's probably the best case scenario for Kolb. It will be interesting to see how he plays from here on out.

 

[the turnip]

Still no current Dynasty Rankings from FBG???

(sigh)

 

[Winning IS Everything]

Still no current Dynasty Rankings from FBG???(sigh)

Yeah this is quite disappointing...........

 

[jonboltz]

Still no current Dynasty Rankings from FBG???(sigh)

Search back to like 2-3 weeks ago, 3-5 staffers recently updated theirs.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Let's talk Kevin Kolb. EBF mentioned one interesting thing in that Newton #1 thread. He said he pays a great deal of attention to ypa for a qb as he feels that's the biggest key in determining future success. While I'm sure it's not the sole factor in predicting the future, Kolb is currently 1th in the league with a 7.8 ypa. It's not some otherworldly average but it certainly goes against the stereotype of him checking down constantly. I realize stats can be misleading but 7.8 puts him with Romo. And above Ryan, Stafford, Dalton, Vick, Cutler, and every other scrub or mediocre talent. And it might not be a fluke. In 2010 he had a 6.3 ypa (189 attempts). But in 2009 he had a 7.7 ypa (96 attempts). When you consider the o-line he has to play behind that seems like it's actually not a bad showing for his first year with Arizona. Yet most folks seem to be really down on him. Do I need to watch the games to see how bad he really is or is this kid a buy low target?Btw Bradford ranks lower than Painter. Only McCoy and Gabbert have lower ypa's.

Having watched him play a few times this season, I'd say his high YPA is probably a fluke. His 70 yard TD pass to Doucet was on a quick ~5 yard pass that Doucet took to the endzone. His 50 yard TD pass to Jeff King was a 10 yard pass on broken coverage. And his 50 and 70 yard TD passes to Lerod Stephens-Howling were both on RB screens. Watching Kolb play, he definitely has some talent throwing the ball, he throws a very catchable ball, and he has pretty good accuracy and arm power. But he's got some pretty big issues in other areas. The biggest is he seems to be very afraid of being sacked or simply being hit; even when his O line gives him time, Kolb often times runs backwards for no apparent reason. In the games I watched he hasn't displayed the mental fortitude to stay in the pocket for better or worse. I think if he can get his head on straight, or be coached up better he can be a pretty good NFL and fantasy QB; but I don't know if it's likely to happen.

 

[WFR]

Pierre Thomas

What's his value in a 10-team non-ppr dynasty league?

Is he worth holding onto as a handcuff for Ingram owners or will the backfield always be too muddy to know if he's worthy of a RB2/Flex start?

TIA

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Bradford is a much better buy low than Kolb. Even if you're saying buy Kolb for 10 or Bradford for 25, I'd much rather buy Bradford for 25.

They don't even belong in the same conversation talent wise IMOBradford's floor is Kolb's ceiling. I'd be stunned if Kolb was starting 3 years from now. Guy has zero pocket presence, happy feet, a pop gun arm and is turnover prone. I don't know that Skelton's the answer either (I think he's a future backup), but Kolb's been no better than McNabb or Orton (both already replaced) And Kolb's been worse than his mediocre numbers.

 

[Macdaddy_2004]

Does anyone have a deep deep dynasty stash at RB? I'm in an IDP league with 40+ man rosters.

 

[Crazy Tony]

Does anyone have a deep deep dynasty stash at RB? I'm in an IDP league with 40+ man rosters.

Phillip Tanner, Jeremiah Johnson, Da'Rell Scott. Just some thoughts

 

[saintfool]

Pierre Thomas

What's his value in a 10-team non-ppr dynasty league?

Is he worth holding onto as a handcuff for Ingram owners or will the backfield always be too muddy to know if he's worthy of a RB2/Flex start?

TIA

There are better options elsewhere, especially in your league format. He's not getting more touches with Ingram out really.I think Pierre may get traded or cut in the offseason because of what Sproles can do. Why wait for that the pan out if you have better options thought?

 

[WFR]

Pierre Thomas

What's his value in a 10-team non-ppr dynasty league?

Is he worth holding onto as a handcuff for Ingram owners or will the backfield always be too muddy to know if he's worthy of a RB2/Flex start?

TIA

There are better options elsewhere, especially in your league format. He's not getting more touches with Ingram out really.I think Pierre may get traded or cut in the offseason because of what Sproles can do. Why wait for that the pan out if you have better options thought?

Leaning towards this.I think I've used him once this year to fill a Flex spot. I have Ingram and will keep him. I just don't really see him as a valuable "handcuff" to Ingram with both Sproles and Ivory in the mix. May stash him though to see if he gets traded.

Watch him totally go off this weekend now that we've had this discussion.

 

[Gandalf]

How far does McFadden fall in a dynasty draft. I am thinking that he still is a top 10 and maybe even 5 overall pick. You just need to get his handcuff next year. Thoughts?