Dynasty Rankings (8 Viewers)

[az_prof]

I beleive someone is compelled to ask about Tebow's value since we are on page 316 of this thread.There. I did it.

This season he averaged 16.7 fantasy points/game in my scoring system. That puts him at QB20, right after Cutler and just before Flacco. Now, there is reason to think he can improve on that with a full off season of OTAs and some continuity in coaching that he didn't enjoy this year. But, there is also the risk that he doesn't improve and loses his job by mid season, in which case his value would plummet. Personally, I would rather have him than Cutler because I think we have seen Cutler's ceiling, and he is not a QB1 fantasy QB. Tebow is a high end QB2 at this point because you wouldn't want to go into 2012 and rely on him, given that he could lose his job, but he is a good QB2 because he promises competitive production at that place AND he has a higher potential ceiling. I could easily imagine him becoming a top 10 fantasy QB with the bonus of his rushing yards and rushing TDs.So, the question then becomes what is the relative value of QB2 with good upside and risk?I would say a rookie draft pick in the high second round. 2.01-2.04. Or, maybe a receiver like Robert Meachem (who also has a high ceiling but a lot of risk this off season), or a RB like Toby Gerhart or Donald Brown.

 

[az_prof]

Anyone have thoughts on McFadden's value from a draft pick perspective? He is very talented but has serious injury issues. Now the rumors of a trade. He seems very boom/bust, and I am not sure what is fair value.

I would say 1.4-1.6

I sure hope you were referring to the 1.4-1.6 pick in startup drafts, and not in rookie drafts. Otherwise, I don't care how much uncertainty there is, we're talking about a 24-year old top-5 draft pick with a 4.8 career ypc. Yeah, he's got a bit of an injury history. Sure, we don't know for sure where he'll be playing next year. His per game totals over the last two seasons are 121.6/0.75. That's 1950/12 per 16 games, and that even underestimates the situation (in the games he actually finished, he averaged 130.5/0.83, which pro-rates to 2090/13). I'll gladly take my chances with his injury history and job uncertainty.Suggesting Lamar Miller or Kendall Wright represent fair value for Darren McFadden is plain old crazy talk. Both players have a higher chance of busting than McFadden has of getting hurt and missing substantial time, and neither player stands much of a chance of ever becoming as much of an impact player as McFadden has been when healthy. The only rookie pick worth more than McFadden right now, in my opinion, is the 1.01... and even that's a fairly close call.

There is NO way I would use a first round pick in a start up dynasty on McFadden. None. And I think the trade rumors that are swirling about him are a reflection of how little faith the team has in him and/or the seriousness of his liz frank injury. So, Yes, I am talking about a rookie pick value of 1.4-1.6. That's what I think he is worth. He has more than "a bit of an injury history." He has missed significant action every year in his career and he not shown the ability to either play injured or recover quickly. The latest injury is a potentially career ending injury. We don't know yet, but at this time, that is a serious risk factor. Until he plays again in a real game, that risk is there.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

The trade rumors "swirling" about him are a reflection of the media's incessant need to throw #### at a wall hoping it sticks, and the unending need for juicy speculation on message boards. Nothing else.

 

[squistion]

Anyone have thoughts on McFadden's value from a draft pick perspective? He is very talented but has serious injury issues. Now the rumors of a trade. He seems very boom/bust, and I am not sure what is fair value.

I would say 1.4-1.6

I sure hope you were referring to the 1.4-1.6 pick in startup drafts, and not in rookie drafts. Otherwise, I don't care how much uncertainty there is, we're talking about a 24-year old top-5 draft pick with a 4.8 career ypc. Yeah, he's got a bit of an injury history. Sure, we don't know for sure where he'll be playing next year. His per game totals over the last two seasons are 121.6/0.75. That's 1950/12 per 16 games, and that even underestimates the situation (in the games he actually finished, he averaged 130.5/0.83, which pro-rates to 2090/13). I'll gladly take my chances with his injury history and job uncertainty.Suggesting Lamar Miller or Kendall Wright represent fair value for Darren McFadden is plain old crazy talk. Both players have a higher chance of busting than McFadden has of getting hurt and missing substantial time, and neither player stands much of a chance of ever becoming as much of an impact player as McFadden has been when healthy. The only rookie pick worth more than McFadden right now, in my opinion, is the 1.01... and even that's a fairly close call.

There is NO way I would use a first round pick in a start up dynasty on McFadden. None. And I think the trade rumors that are swirling about him are a reflection of how little faith the team has in him and/or the seriousness of his liz frank injury. So, Yes, I am talking about a rookie pick value of 1.4-1.6. That's what I think he is worth. He has more than "a bit of an injury history." He has missed significant action every year in his career and he not shown the ability to either play injured or recover quickly. The latest injury is a potentially career ending injury. We don't know yet, but at this time, that is a serious risk factor. Until he plays again in a real game, that risk is there.

That makes sense knowing your history regarding this player. You should put a disclaimer in these discussions of DMC that you have never particularly cared for him. I can remember, even in the year that he did well, you had very little good to say about him. You are clearly biased against this player IMO and someone who didn't know that might take what you say as not being so subjective.

 

[az_prof]

Anyone have thoughts on McFadden's value from a draft pick perspective? He is very talented but has serious injury issues. Now the rumors of a trade. He seems very boom/bust, and I am not sure what is fair value.

I would say 1.4-1.6

I sure hope you were referring to the 1.4-1.6 pick in startup drafts, and not in rookie drafts. Otherwise, I don't care how much uncertainty there is, we're talking about a 24-year old top-5 draft pick with a 4.8 career ypc. Yeah, he's got a bit of an injury history. Sure, we don't know for sure where he'll be playing next year. His per game totals over the last two seasons are 121.6/0.75. That's 1950/12 per 16 games, and that even underestimates the situation (in the games he actually finished, he averaged 130.5/0.83, which pro-rates to 2090/13). I'll gladly take my chances with his injury history and job uncertainty.Suggesting Lamar Miller or Kendall Wright represent fair value for Darren McFadden is plain old crazy talk. Both players have a higher chance of busting than McFadden has of getting hurt and missing substantial time, and neither player stands much of a chance of ever becoming as much of an impact player as McFadden has been when healthy. The only rookie pick worth more than McFadden right now, in my opinion, is the 1.01... and even that's a fairly close call.

There is NO way I would use a first round pick in a start up dynasty on McFadden. None. And I think the trade rumors that are swirling about him are a reflection of how little faith the team has in him and/or the seriousness of his liz frank injury. So, Yes, I am talking about a rookie pick value of 1.4-1.6. That's what I think he is worth. He has more than "a bit of an injury history." He has missed significant action every year in his career and he not shown the ability to either play injured or recover quickly. The latest injury is a potentially career ending injury. We don't know yet, but at this time, that is a serious risk factor. Until he plays again in a real game, that risk is there.

That makes sense knowing your history regarding this player. You should put a disclaimer in these discussions of DMC that you have never particularly cared for him. I can remember, even in the year that he did well, you had very little good to say about him. You are clearly biased against this player IMO and someone who didn't know that might take what you say as not being so subjective.

Not sure why that requires a disclaimer. I have watched almost every NFL game he has played, and all of the ones he has sat on the sideline as I live in Bay area. It isn't like I am making up his injury prone status or his inability to play with nagging injuries. Those are facts. I also acknowledge that he has home run ability and that gives him value. The Raiders were better when he played. But a featured NFL back has to be able to stay healthy all season while logging 20+ touches. He hasn't done that in four seasons. I don't think it is likely he will be able to do that in the future although there is a chance he might. If you want to risk your first pick in a dynasty, a pick which really must be successful for years to come, then go for it. I could see taking that chance in a redraft where the long term risk is less if you fail. But to take that kind of risk in a dynasty when there are other great players who are more reliable is just plain silly.

 

[corpcow]

Where would you put Beanie Wells value as far as rookie draft picks?

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Where would you put Beanie Wells value as far as rookie draft picks?

1.2-1.3

 

[moderated]

Where would you put Beanie Wells value as far as rookie draft picks?

1.2-1.3

No way.Luck/griffin/Richardson/Blackmon are easily more valuable, and after the nfl draft a couple rb's will jump him based on going into good spots. Plus a couple wrs will likely be as valuable.1.6 - 1.10 is about where beanie falls.

 

[Tau837]

Where would you put Beanie Wells value as far as rookie draft picks?

1.2-1.3

No way.Luck/griffin/Richardson/Blackmon are easily more valuable, and after the nfl draft a couple rb's will jump him based on going into good spots. Plus a couple wrs will likely be as valuable.1.6 - 1.10 is about where beanie falls.

 

[az_prof]

Where would you put Beanie Wells value as far as rookie draft picks?

1.2-1.3

No way.Luck/griffin/Richardson/Blackmon are easily more valuable, and after the nfl draft a couple rb's will jump him based on going into good spots. Plus a couple wrs will likely be as valuable.1.6 - 1.10 is about where beanie falls.

THis is more in line with how I see Beanie too.

 

[dickey moe]

Well in the 1 league i have him, guys are treating him like he's TO or Derrick Mason. Seriously. I thought if I could move him for a good younger prospect I would, but clearly he's a keep based on the perceived value I'm seeing. Fortunately I have a few other good WRs who aren't in their 30s on my roster (Fitz, Colston, Julio, Denarius Moore.) I was just curious if anyone else is seeing this too.

I've owned Ray Rice and AJ in a Keep 2 league for the past three years, and I've grown tired of AJ's injuries. I'll be keeping Rice and Gronkowski next year, if that gives you any insight to AJ's current value (at least as measured by me).

 

[flc735]

what do we think about evan royster? i dont view him as a sleeper but more like a flyer with rb1 potential. im not going to declare him the next foster but the similarities are great.

-both were complete unknowns before they got their chance. royster was a 6th round pick, foster a 6th. and we know about the other shanny runningbacks, orlandis gary, mike anderson, terrell davis, reuben droghns?, tatum bell and portis.

-both played well when they got their chance, each at the end of the season after the ff season was over which helped keep them a bit under the radar. and both started that season on the practice squad. royster had 312 yards his last 2 games.

-competition- tate/slaton and hightower/helu. again, kept both he and foster under the radar through the off season. a lot of people stayed away from the houston rbs because it seemed like such a crapshoot at the time. it wasn't until tate got hurt that the foster train started rolling. (pre tate injury, i passed on foster in the 13th round of a startup that year )

-the denver zone blocking scheme

-both had very slow 40 times and no "special" skills

-both were so-so in college

so is royster anything more than a good sleeper/flyer pick or is he a potential star runningback?

 

[jwb]

what do we think about evan royster? i dont view him as a sleeper but more like a flyer with rb1 potential. im not going to declare him the next foster but the similarities are great.-both were complete unknowns before they got their chance. royster was a 6th round pick, foster a 6th. and we know about the other shanny runningbacks, orlandis gary, mike anderson, terrell davis, reuben droghns?, tatum bell and portis.-both played well when they got their chance, each at the end of the season after the ff season was over which helped keep them a bit under the radar. and both started that season on the practice squad. royster had 312 yards his last 2 games.-competition- tate/slaton and hightower/helu. again, kept both he and foster under the radar through the off season. a lot of people stayed away from the houston rbs because it seemed like such a crapshoot at the time. it wasn't until tate got hurt that the foster train started rolling. (pre tate injury, i passed on foster in the 13th round of a startup that year )-the denver zone blocking scheme-both had very slow 40 times and no "special" skills-both were so-so in collegeso is royster anything more than a good sleeper/flyer pick or is he a potential star runningback?

He's an interesting lottery ticket, for sure. I wouldn't sell him "cheap" / straight up (I'd rather hold him than the mid to late second he'll fetch), but he's a good piece to push another trade over the top.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

The shiny new toys are always overvalued this time of year.

Meh. Guess it's a rookie thing.

 

[thriftyrocker]

-both were complete unknowns before they got their chance. royster was a 6th round pick, foster a 6th. and we know about the other shanny runningbacks, orlandis gary, mike anderson, terrell davis, reuben droghns?, tatum bell and portis.-both were so-so in collegeso is royster anything more than a good sleeper/flyer pick or is he a potential star runningback?

Both had great college careers but had their worst years as seniors. Foster was undrafted but was projected as a possible 1st round pick before his senior year - preseason All American and all that. Royster was taken in the 6th but at best he would have been a Glen Coffee-style 3rd round pick - solid all around back but not special.The Denver system has made worse backs valuable, and there is potential there with a QB upgrade. But he's not going to be an elite back.

 

[flc735]

-both were complete unknowns before they got their chance. royster was a 6th round pick, foster a 6th. and we know about the other shanny runningbacks, orlandis gary, mike anderson, terrell davis, reuben droghns?, tatum bell and portis.-both were so-so in collegeso is royster anything more than a good sleeper/flyer pick or is he a potential star runningback?

Both had great college careers but had their worst years as seniors. Foster was undrafted but was projected as a possible 1st round pick before his senior year - preseason All American and all that. Royster was taken in the 6th but at best he would have been a Glen Coffee-style 3rd round pick - solid all around back but not special.The Denver system has made worse backs valuable, and there is potential there with a QB upgrade. But he's not going to be an elite back.

by so-so i meant what you just described. i went to penn state so i did follow his career. also im a little bias which is why im asking about him here. i did not know foster was once a potential 1st round pick. i dont completely buy that since i never heard about him until he got his playing time. i would think a former projected 1st round pick would have been discussed here during the nfl draft, or did we just not talk about him because he went undrafted? the point i was trying to make here is even though royster is not a very skilled back, those past examples show that its not enough reason to dismiss him.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

i did not know foster was once a potential 1st round pick. i dont completely buy that since i never heard about him until he got his playing time. i would think a former projected 1st round pick would have been discussed here during the nfl draft, or did we just not talk about him because he went undrafted? the point i was trying to make here is even though royster is not a very skilled back, those past examples show that its not enough reason to dismiss him.

Foster was pretty well regarded among SEC pundits during his college career. I remember deciding during his junior year that he would end up on my dynasty team when he came out.

 

[thriftyrocker]

I beleive someone is compelled to ask about Tebow's value since we are on page 316 of this thread.There. I did it.

This season he averaged 16.7 fantasy points/game in my scoring system. That puts him at QB20, right after Cutler and just before Flacco.

I am pretty sure you divided by 14 not 12, including 2 games where he basically didn't play. If you divide by 12, he is a low QB1. But if your league deducts points for praying or being on ESPN or maybe rewards points per completion or maybe doesn't give rushing stats to QBs, I can see how that might cause you to devalue him.Wesseling has him in the same tier as Schaub, Freeman, Bradford, and Ryan (and Flacco and Cutler). I want to believe. The risk is obvious. The upside is a poor man's Newton.How do people rank: Vick, Tebow, Locker, RG3. As far as trade value it seems like it is RG3, Vick, Locker, Tebow. But as far as actual lineup value, it's probably Vick, Tebow, RG3, Locker. JMO.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

I could use some opinions on Tarrelle Pryor. In super deep leagues(45 roster) is he worth a stash? We can only keep guys for up to 4 years, what did Palmer get a 2 year contract?

 

[Riffraff]

Where would you put Beanie Wells value as far as rookie draft picks?

1.2-1.3

No way.Luck/griffin/Richardson/Blackmon are easily more valuable, and after the nfl draft a couple rb's will jump him based on going into good spots. Plus a couple wrs will likely be as valuable.1.6 - 1.10 is about where beanie falls.

The better question would be: Where does _____________ (insert any existing NFL player) get drafted in a start-up versus where these rookie 3rd/4th stringers would get drafted?In this case, Beannie is a top 3-5 rounder. The rookie would be round 8-20, possibly undrafted.

 

[Riffraff]

I could use some opinions on Tarrelle Pryor. In super deep leagues(45 roster) is he worth a stash? We can only keep guys for up to 4 years, what did Palmer get a 2 year contract?

Per Rotoworld:10/18/2011: Signed a four-year, $43 million contract. The deal contains $7.5 million guaranteed, including all of Palmer's first-year salary and $5 million of Palmer's second-year salary.

2011: $2.5 million,

2012: $12.5 million,

2013: $13 million,

2014: $15 million,

2015: Free Agent

I wouldn't bet on the project Pryor anytime soon, if he even plays QB at all.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

I could use some opinions on Tarrelle Pryor. In super deep leagues(45 roster) is he worth a stash? We can only keep guys for up to 4 years, what did Palmer get a 2 year contract?

Per Rotoworld:10/18/2011: Signed a four-year, $43 million contract. The deal contains $7.5 million guaranteed, including all of Palmer's first-year salary and $5 million of Palmer's second-year salary.

2011: $2.5 million,

2012: $12.5 million,

2013: $13 million,

2014: $15 million,

2015: Free Agent

I wouldn't bet on the project Pryor anytime soon, if he even plays QB at all.

Cool thanks. Glad I just passed on him

 

[bengalbuck]

Anyone have thoughts on McFadden's value from a draft pick perspective? He is very talented but has serious injury issues. Now the rumors of a trade. He seems very boom/bust, and I am not sure what is fair value.

I would say 1.4-1.6

I sure hope you were referring to the 1.4-1.6 pick in startup drafts, and not in rookie drafts. Otherwise, I don't care how much uncertainty there is, we're talking about a 24-year old top-5 draft pick with a 4.8 career ypc. Yeah, he's got a bit of an injury history. Sure, we don't know for sure where he'll be playing next year. His per game totals over the last two seasons are 121.6/0.75. That's 1950/12 per 16 games, and that even underestimates the situation (in the games he actually finished, he averaged 130.5/0.83, which pro-rates to 2090/13). I'll gladly take my chances with his injury history and job uncertainty.Suggesting Lamar Miller or Kendall Wright represent fair value for Darren McFadden is plain old crazy talk. Both players have a higher chance of busting than McFadden has of getting hurt and missing substantial time, and neither player stands much of a chance of ever becoming as much of an impact player as McFadden has been when healthy. The only rookie pick worth more than McFadden right now, in my opinion, is the 1.01... and even that's a fairly close call.

There is NO way I would use a first round pick in a start up dynasty on McFadden. None. And I think the trade rumors that are swirling about him are a reflection of how little faith the team has in him and/or the seriousness of his liz frank injury. So, Yes, I am talking about a rookie pick value of 1.4-1.6. That's what I think he is worth. He has more than "a bit of an injury history." He has missed significant action every year in his career and he not shown the ability to either play injured or recover quickly. The latest injury is a potentially career ending injury. We don't know yet, but at this time, that is a serious risk factor. Until he plays again in a real game, that risk is there.

I think his value is in between where you two have him. He's almost definitely not a 1st round startup draft pick. He went early 3rd round in a recent startup. But he's still worth a good amount more than the 4th-6th rookie picks. Rookie #4 didn't go until the late 5th round in the same recent startup. Just my opinion, but in terms of rookie picks, he is clearly worth less than 1.01 (Richardson) and clearly worth more than 1.04. Depending on scoring/roster requirements, he may or may not be worth more than 1.02 or 1.03 (Blackmon/Luck). Except for QB flex leagues, I don't personally think I'd trade him for 1.02.

 

[Synesthesia]

How do people rank: Vick, Tebow, Locker, RG3. As far as trade value it seems like it is RG3, Vick, Locker, Tebow. But as far as actual lineup value, it's probably Vick, Tebow, RG3, Locker. JMO.

Depending on where Griffin lands, I view it either as Griffin, Vick, Tebow, Locker, or Vick, Griffin, Tebow, Locker. No way I trade Griffin away for Tebow, regardless of where he lands.

 

[EBF]

How do people rank: Vick, Tebow, Locker, RG3. As far as trade value it seems like it is RG3, Vick, Locker, Tebow. But as far as actual lineup value, it's probably Vick, Tebow, RG3, Locker. JMO.

Not a group of QBs I'd be rushing out to acquire. Vick sank back down to more realistic passing numbers this past season. As he continues to get older and his legs go, he seems destined for FF mediocrity. I'd still be tempted to take him over those other guys simply because he's the only one you could start right now with any confidence. If I were looking more long term, I'd go with Griffin. If he pans out he could be productive for many years to come. The risk is that he seems like a bit of a boom-or-bust prospect. Could be great. Could be garbage. I think he probably has more overall value than Vick, but you're gambling that he won't be the next Young/Leinart/Harrington/Akili Smith/etc. Never been a fan of Locker. He was a bad passer in college despite a pretty good supporting cast (look what Keith Price did with the same opportunities this past year). I'd still take him over Tebow though. High draft pick on a team with no long term QB competition. There's a chance he could become serviceable. I could see a Jake Plummer type of career as his ceiling. Not a Tebow believer. Awful passer who lucked his way to some wins. He'll need to show me some actual passing chops before I take him seriously as an NFL player. That hasn't happened yet.

 

[Couch Potato]

I feel like I'm on an island. I own Tebow in no dynasty leagues and have avoided any opportunities to get him. I view him as a short-term blip who will have little fantasy value by this time next year after it's become clear he can't cut it as a passer and needs to be / has already been replaced in DEN.

Best of luck to you guys seeing him as a low QB1 / high QB2 based on extrapolating 2011 PPG stats. The real issue is viability as a long term starter, and I'm nowhere near buying it. I'd take Locker, for example, by a mile over Timmy T.

 

[EBF]

I feel like I'm on an island. I own Tebow in no dynasty leagues and have avoided any opportunities to get him. I view him as a short-term blip who will have little fantasy value by this time next year after it's become clear he can't cut it as a passer and needs to be / has already been replaced in DEN.Best of luck to you guys seeing him as a low QB1 / high QB2 based on extrapolating 2011 PPG stats. The real issue is viability as a long term starter, and I'm nowhere near buying it. I'd take Locker, for example, by a mile over Timmy T.

That's mostly how I feel. I wouldn't say there's no chance of him being successful, but it would take massive improvement. One thing I've learned in recent years is that you can't assume QBs will get better with experience. For every Eli or Brees who suddenly "gets it" there are countless guys like Mark Sanchez, Trent Edwards, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Joey Harrington, David Carr, and even Matt Ryan who never really rise above their initial level.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Best of luck to you guys seeing him as a low QB1 / high QB2 based on extrapolating 2011 PPG stats. The real issue is viability as a long term starter, and I'm nowhere near buying it. I'd take Locker, for example, by a mile over Timmy T.

What does Locker offer that Tebow doesn't other than the fact that you haven't seen him start 15 games. Locker's only benefit is there's less people predisposed to hate him, so he's more easily moved. This is as much a statement on Locker as it is Tebow.

 

[EBF]

Best of luck to you guys seeing him as a low QB1 / high QB2 based on extrapolating 2011 PPG stats. The real issue is viability as a long term starter, and I'm nowhere near buying it. I'd take Locker, for example, by a mile over Timmy T.

What does Locker offer that Tebow doesn't other than the fact that you haven't seen him start 15 games.

Well...that's exactly it, isn't it?We have seen Tebow play almost a full season and the results were not pretty. Among the worst QBs in the league in terms of accuracy and yards per attempt. It would be hard for Locker to play worse than that, so he's more promising almost by default.

 

[thriftyrocker]

We have seen Tebow play almost a full season and the results were not pretty. Among the worst QBs in the league in terms of accuracy and yards per attempt. It would be hard for Locker to play worse than that, so he's more promising almost by default.

It will be easy for him to do worse than that. See Christian Ponder.

 

[EBF]

Ponder's rookie year wasn't good, but his YPA was equal to Tebow's and his completion percentage was higher.

The logic still applies re: Locker vs. Tebow. Take the guy who might not suck over the guy who already sucks.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Ponder's rookie year wasn't good, but his YPA was equal to Tebow's and his completion percentage was higher.

And he was grossly outplayed by a 3rd string QB. Despite the 3rd stringer's lower YPA and completion percentage. Because the 3rd stringers legs opened up the offense even with AP out. This is directly applicable to Denver and whatever Brady Quinn they try to replace Tebow with if he isn't .500 next year.

 

[Tau837]

I feel like I'm on an island. I own Tebow in no dynasty leagues and have avoided any opportunities to get him. I view him as a short-term blip who will have little fantasy value by this time next year after it's become clear he can't cut it as a passer and needs to be / has already been replaced in DEN.Best of luck to you guys seeing him as a low QB1 / high QB2 based on extrapolating 2011 PPG stats. The real issue is viability as a long term starter, and I'm nowhere near buying it. I'd take Locker, for example, by a mile over Timmy T.

 

[RavenLunatic]

Bloom posted his QB and RB rankings.

 

[squistion]

Best of luck to you guys seeing him as a low QB1 / high QB2 based on extrapolating 2011 PPG stats. The real issue is viability as a long term starter, and I'm nowhere near buying it. I'd take Locker, for example, by a mile over Timmy T.

Locker is going to be a good one IMO. I own him in one league and will be trying to acquire him this offseason in others. Locker doesn't have the issues with his mechanics that Tebow has. Yes, he needs better accuracy, but that issue is overblown IMO and can be improved by coaching (according to Dan Reeves and some other sources I have run across on the net). Locker looked promising in what little action he saw and he has flashed the leadership intangible that Tebow possesses. I think that the price he is currently going at will be viewed as a bargain a year from now for those who acquire him.

 

[soothsayer]

Ponder's rookie year wasn't good, but his YPA was equal to Tebow's and his completion percentage was higher.

It's pretty easy to make such comparison's when you completely discount what Tebow offers as a runner. That's kind of the problem in placing a value on Tebow - we can't use the same old passing stats to evaluate him. What he offers as a QB, and how he accumulates his points, are different than what we are used to. I agree re: questioning his long-term viability as a starting QB, but any comparison of him to another QB can't be based solely on passing stats.

 

[bmsarvis]

Bloom posted his QB and RB rankings.

Ive searched the dynasty rankings and did not see them. Could u provide a link please or a little direction tia

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The problem with Tebow is that his upside is going to be limited by his situation. Even if we skip ahead and pretend that he is a really good passer, he's going to be limited by the staff running an offense straight out of the 1940's. The only way that staff is going to change is if Denver loses a lot, which Tebow would not survive. So either Tebow/Denver plays well and Tebow gets straddled into being a low-end QB1 by an overly conservative offensive gameplan or Tebow plays poorly and never gets another starting gig.

That said, he was a low-end QB1 as a 1st year starter while running the most boring and conservative offense in the NFL this past year. That means there were 20+ teams running more QB FF friendly offenses that got fewer FF points out of their QB, which says something about how astronomically some people underrated rushing stats out of QBs in an FF setting.

 

[DexterDew]

i'm trying to gauge the tempertature of some of the "older" WRs like VJax & Colston.

I've always been a little leary of Colston's knees but he finished the year strong after missing a couple games early. And if he stays in NO, I see him remaining 1A or 1B with Graham for the next 2-3 years.

VJax can take over a game when he gets the targets (and can single handily win you a week) I like his big play ability but is all his value tied to the deep ball in Norv's offense. Last year he set a personal record of 114 targets, which is just over 7/game.

I know their value will be directly related to where they end up (if they move on in FA), but assuming they stay will they remain Top 15 WRs for the next 2-3 years.

 

[Couch Potato]

Bloom posted his QB and RB rankings.

Ive searched the dynasty rankings and did not see them. Could u provide a link please or a little direction tia

QB (sorted in order of Bloom rankings)http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/viewrankings.php?type=dynasty&viewpos=qb&howrecent=200&sortby=107RB (sorted in order of Bloom rankings)http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/viewrankings.php?type=dynasty&viewpos=rb&howrecent=200&sortby=107

 

[az_prof]

Best of luck to you guys seeing him as a low QB1 / high QB2 based on extrapolating 2011 PPG stats. The real issue is viability as a long term starter, and I'm nowhere near buying it. I'd take Locker, for example, by a mile over Timmy T.

What does Locker offer that Tebow doesn't other than the fact that you haven't seen him start 15 games.

Well...that's exactly it, isn't it?We have seen Tebow play almost a full season and the results were not pretty. Among the worst QBs in the league in terms of accuracy and yards per attempt. It would be hard for Locker to play worse than that, so he's more promising almost by default.

The completion % is a red herring. How many screen passes or curls or 5-10 yard slants were called for him? I don't know why but the offense seemed to be based on running and then passing deep when you do pass. If the OC implements some safer routes his completion percentage will go up. If they pass more often in situations where you don't KNOW they are passing, his completions will go up too. Most of the time when they did call a pass, it was third and long and the D knew it. That's putting a lot of pressure on a young QB's shoulder. I do give them credit for implementing the option, which played to Tebow's strength. But they didn't put in many plays that were high success type plays--most were high risk/high reward. And he delivered on a lot of those high reward plays I would add.

 

[az_prof]

i'm trying to gauge the tempertature of some of the "older" WRs like VJax & Colston. I've always been a little leary of Colston's knees but he finished the year strong after missing a couple games early. And if he stays in NO, I see him remaining 1A or 1B with Graham for the next 2-3 years.VJax can take over a game when he gets the targets (and can single handily win you a week) I like his big play ability but is all his value tied to the deep ball in Norv's offense. Last year he set a personal record of 114 targets, which is just over 7/game.I know their value will be directly related to where they end up (if they move on in FA), but assuming they stay will they remain Top 15 WRs for the next 2-3 years.

I like VJax but am wary of where he may land. He has had a top 10 QB and a passing offense his whole career. I like Colston's talent more, but his knees do scare me. If Colston is renewed in NO that will tell me his knees are pretty good, but if they let him walk, the only reason would be his knees. If he walks I would be very wary of Colston. Anyway, I see both guys as good targets if the price is right, but I would'nt give away a top 3 rookie pick for them.

 

[geoff8695]

i'm trying to gauge the tempertature of some of the "older" WRs like VJax & Colston. I've always been a little leary of Colston's knees but he finished the year strong after missing a couple games early. And if he stays in NO, I see him remaining 1A or 1B with Graham for the next 2-3 years.VJax can take over a game when he gets the targets (and can single handily win you a week) I like his big play ability but is all his value tied to the deep ball in Norv's offense. Last year he set a personal record of 114 targets, which is just over 7/game.I know their value will be directly related to where they end up (if they move on in FA), but assuming they stay will they remain Top 15 WRs for the next 2-3 years.

I like VJax but am wary of where he may land. He has had a top 10 QB and a passing offense his whole career. I like Colston's talent more, but his knees do scare me. If Colston is renewed in NO that will tell me his knees are pretty good, but if they let him walk, the only reason would be his knees. If he walks I would be very wary of Colston. Anyway, I see both guys as good targets if the price is right, but I would'nt give away a top 3 rookie pick for them.

Saints HAVE TO resign Drew Brees, AND stud OL Carl Nicks, AND make a decision on both Robert Meachem and Marques Colston. There might not be enough $$$ or franchise tags left to sign Brees, Nicks, and Colston. So I wouldn't automatically assume health as the over riding reason for being unable to resign Colston IMO.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Who do we think emerges as Carolina's #2 WR? I've seen a few people talk up Gettis but I don't see him mentioned much. If healthy is he better than LaFell?

 

[Couch Potato]

Who do we think emerges as Carolina's #2 WR? I've seen a few people talk up Gettis but I don't see him mentioned much. If healthy is he better than LaFell?

That will have to unfold. When both were playing in 2010 and Clausen was starting, it was pretty hard to know since Clausen was pretty bad. Gettis had better numbers and more playing time, but that was a different coaching staff and Lafell has another year under his belt while Gettis was on IR. They both were rookies in 2010, Lafell a 3rd rounder and Gettis a 6th. There's also Pilares (a 5th in 2011) and perhaps holdover Naanee, and anyone they may go out and get in the draft and/or FA this year.Short answer is, if I had to choose between the two right now, I'd choose LaFell.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Who do we think emerges as Carolina's #2 WR? I've seen a few people talk up Gettis but I don't see him mentioned much. If healthy is he better than LaFell?

That will have to unfold. When both were playing in 2010 and Clausen was starting, it was pretty hard to know since Clausen was pretty bad. Gettis had better numbers and more playing time, but that was a different coaching staff and Lafell has another year under his belt while Gettis was on IR. They both were rookies in 2010, Lafell a 3rd rounder and Gettis a 6th. There's also Pilares (a 5th in 2011) and perhaps holdover Naanee, and anyone they may go out and get in the draft and/or FA this year.Short answer is, if I had to choose between the two right now, I'd choose LaFell.

Agree

 

[solorca]

Panthers homer here. If you would have asked me last offseason, it would have been Gettis without a doubt. I still think Gettis will be the one to take the starting job in the end, but I expect it to be a situation where both guys are used heavily and will contribute regularly. There is obviously a chance that a free agent or rookie comes in, but I think that they are the wide receivers of the future (and present) in Carolina.

Pilares showed some skills on special teams this season, so he'll stick with the team in that role for sure. If he's given a chance to play on offense a little more, I think he can make an impact as well.

Nannee is garbage and I'll be really annoyed if the team keeps him. I've never seen a guy with such an ability to get open, but a complete inability to do anything with his opportunities. Even if he does manage to catch a ball, he usually falls down instantly, even if no one is around him. This is also part of the reason that I would take Gettis over Lafell. The fact that someone who looked as horrible as Nannee managed to start over Lafell almost all season (prior to an injury) makes me think that the staff still needs to see more out of Lafell for him to win the starting job.

 

[solorca]

There are a couple guys for next year that I am feeling pretty good about, but I would like to get some thoughts from the long-time dynasty players to get some feedback.

1. Charles Clay (RB/FB/TE, Miami) - MFL has him listed as a RB, but I am hopeful that they will switch him to TE next season. As a RB/FB/TE hybrid, there are a lot of opportunities for this guy to to pick a lot in the way of stats. Goal line rushes and a big receiving option? Personally, I think he's one of the best sleepers for next year...especially if the switch to TE happens on MFL.

2. Julian Edelman (WR, New England) - I was really high on him about a month ago, but with his recent conversion to CB, I have worries that he may lose his value in non-IDP leagues. I think this is one that you just have to wait on, and hope he will move back to WR and have an opportunity for some more inclusion into the passing game.

3. Rob Housler (TE, Arizona) - He wasn't heavily involved this season, the Cardinals have an opportunity to get him involved next season. Heap is aging, and Jeff King has never been much more than a blocker and a decent receiver. If Housler steals the starting job, I could see him as a top 10 TE option in the next year or two.

Any thoughts about these three guys?

 

[Dawg Pound 69]

There are a couple guys for next year that I am feeling pretty good about, but I would like to get some thoughts from the long-time dynasty players to get some feedback.1. Charles Clay (RB/FB/TE, Miami) - MFL has him listed as a RB, but I am hopeful that they will switch him to TE next season. As a RB/FB/TE hybrid, there are a lot of opportunities for this guy to to pick a lot in the way of stats. Goal line rushes and a big receiving option? Personally, I think he's one of the best sleepers for next year...especially if the switch to TE happens on MFL.2. Julian Edelman (WR, New England) - I was really high on him about a month ago, but with his recent conversion to CB, I have worries that he may lose his value in non-IDP leagues. I think this is one that you just have to wait on, and hope he will move back to WR and have an opportunity for some more inclusion into the passing game.3. Rob Housler (TE, Arizona) - He wasn't heavily involved this season, the Cardinals have an opportunity to get him involved next season. Heap is aging, and Jeff King has never been much more than a blocker and a decent receiver. If Housler steals the starting job, I could see him as a top 10 TE option in the next year or two.Any thoughts about these three guys?

Housler is worth a speculative buy, in case Peyton ends up in Arizona. Clay doesn't seem like he will ever have value. Same with Edelman, they will keep Welker and they will also add a younger speed guy since Branch and Ocho are in decline.

 

[solorca]

There are a couple guys for next year that I am feeling pretty good about, but I would like to get some thoughts from the long-time dynasty players to get some feedback.1. Charles Clay (RB/FB/TE, Miami) - MFL has him listed as a RB, but I am hopeful that they will switch him to TE next season. As a RB/FB/TE hybrid, there are a lot of opportunities for this guy to to pick a lot in the way of stats. Goal line rushes and a big receiving option? Personally, I think he's one of the best sleepers for next year...especially if the switch to TE happens on MFL.2. Julian Edelman (WR, New England) - I was really high on him about a month ago, but with his recent conversion to CB, I have worries that he may lose his value in non-IDP leagues. I think this is one that you just have to wait on, and hope he will move back to WR and have an opportunity for some more inclusion into the passing game.3. Rob Housler (TE, Arizona) - He wasn't heavily involved this season, the Cardinals have an opportunity to get him involved next season. Heap is aging, and Jeff King has never been much more than a blocker and a decent receiver. If Housler steals the starting job, I could see him as a top 10 TE option in the next year or two.Any thoughts about these three guys?

Housler is worth a speculative buy, in case Peyton ends up in Arizona. Clay doesn't seem like he will ever have value. Same with Edelman, they will keep Welker and they will also add a younger speed guy since Branch and Ocho are in decline.

Any reason for your thoughts on Clay? He was a rookie who showed some flashes last year...and is a hybrid player. Seems like he could be a valuable asset in the future.Seems early to have the opinion that he will never have value.