corpcow
Footballguy
I would probably have Cobb first, but Emmanuel Sanders is a close second for me.:stillers:
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Dynasty Rankings (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fear & Loathing
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Hendo
Footballguy
Right now I value Mathews more then CJ, Foster and Peterson.He ranks inside my top 4 (Rice, DMC, McCoy, Mathews) so if you are to get him I'd do it before he gains anymore value. He's become a complete RB this year ala Fjax but 7yrs younger.
The Real Hipster Doofus
Footballguy
To be clear I was referring to his future potential, not his redraft potential. I just have seen enough flashes of greatness from him this year to think he becomes a very good player.
az_prof
Footballguy
In dynasty you don't give up on a guy because he is having a bad year on a bad team. He is still a top 6 HB.I like ADP, Rice, Mcfadden, McCoy, Matthews, Foster better. But after that, he is right there.
duaneok66
Footballguy
please elaborate, why do you think Sanders will overtake Brown??
As I stated above I think he runs better routes and makes the most out of his targets.Sanders is averaging 13.3 per reception to Brown's 14.6 but has 2 TD's where Brown has yet to score.From watching the games it seemed to me that Sanders gets the call when a first down is needed and is getting the redzone targets.My opinion only, not based on any numbers other than what is stated above.I'm sticking with my gut feeling that Sanders will develop into a better WR than Brown over the long haul.
I must not be the only one that sees him as a more complete WR.
Emmanuel Sanders will start over Antonio Brown if Hines Ward (ankle) is held out against the Patriots this week.
Considered a better route runner and run blocker, Sanders has played more on running downs the past few weeks while Brown has seen more snaps on passing downs. Both receivers will be viable WR3 options in a potentially high-scoring game if Ward ends up sitting out. As of Thursday, though, Sanders believes Ward will play. "I saw him running today," said Sanders. "Things are looking good."
Source: Mike Bires on Twitter
Oct 27 - 3:38 PM
az_prof
Footballguy
I agree. I like Cobb's talent best and he has a great QB, but Sanders has blazing speed and good hands, and he will get an opportunity to be a star sooner.
Posted this in the In-Season dynasty trade thread but thought it'd be a good topic for here as I wouldn't mind feedback in regards to my logic behind the trade and not which side you would prefer. A couple of other owners in my league thought I definitely overpaid.
I traded
Jackie Battle
Eric Decker
Jake Locker
For
Percy Harvin
Made the deal basically because
a.) I currently rank Percy Harvin one tier above Eric Decker
b.) Feel like there is a very good chance Tebow will suck all the immediate value out of Decker as in his value will be much lower at season's end then it is now
c.) 1st round rookie QBs seem to often slip to the mid 2nd to mid 3rd in rookie drafts (got Locker in the mid 3rd)
d.) I see Battle as a flex/RB3 or RB4 who has little value beyond this year. He isn't the type of guy who's going to help me win a championship.
e.) It frees up two roster spots for me so it's not that far fetched to think that I'll be able to get at least one player off the wire that will have comparable value to Locker or Battle at season's end. This one is probably the key point as in it's not really a 3 for 1. It's a 3 for 1 + whatever 2 guys I'm able to get off the waiver wire between now and the end of the season.
So I guess my question is whether my logic is sound or not. Obviously, Battle and Locker aren't true throw-ins like Donald Brown or Ed Dickson would be. However, it's not like I would have a very good chance of getting a mid 2nd or higher for either one so they aren't Steven Ridley or Ben Tate type players either. Even if Locker goes on to be a top 10 QB, I'll likely have to wait 2 or 3 years for that kind of production. So what do people think on this trade strategy logic?
I traded
Jackie Battle
Eric Decker
Jake Locker
For
Percy Harvin
Made the deal basically because
a.) I currently rank Percy Harvin one tier above Eric Decker
b.) Feel like there is a very good chance Tebow will suck all the immediate value out of Decker as in his value will be much lower at season's end then it is now
c.) 1st round rookie QBs seem to often slip to the mid 2nd to mid 3rd in rookie drafts (got Locker in the mid 3rd)
d.) I see Battle as a flex/RB3 or RB4 who has little value beyond this year. He isn't the type of guy who's going to help me win a championship.
e.) It frees up two roster spots for me so it's not that far fetched to think that I'll be able to get at least one player off the wire that will have comparable value to Locker or Battle at season's end. This one is probably the key point as in it's not really a 3 for 1. It's a 3 for 1 + whatever 2 guys I'm able to get off the waiver wire between now and the end of the season.
So I guess my question is whether my logic is sound or not. Obviously, Battle and Locker aren't true throw-ins like Donald Brown or Ed Dickson would be. However, it's not like I would have a very good chance of getting a mid 2nd or higher for either one so they aren't Steven Ridley or Ben Tate type players either. Even if Locker goes on to be a top 10 QB, I'll likely have to wait 2 or 3 years for that kind of production. So what do people think on this trade strategy logic?
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I think the logic is good. The real key is how people value Decker. Many value him pretty high, and probably in a similar tier as Harvin. I don't so I would definitely have made that move too. It also deepends on how deep your league is. What players can you pick up off of waivers?
Looks like pretty standard quantity for quality trading. It appears that your team likely is middle of the pack or worse, and if you don't plan on using Battle or Decker then it makes sense.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Jake Locker is worth more than the 3rd you used to get him. This draft was packed with 1st round QBs, causing some to fall. He is worth more than Clausen ever was, and Clausen was a 2nd round pick in startups. Decker is talented. So is Harvin. I think one tier separating them is accurate enough, although Decker's value is rising while Harvin's is stagnant, at the very best. Tebow will either improve or be replaced. He will not hinder Decker's value for very long, and Tebow was able to get the ball to his WRs last season, so it seems shortsighted to devalue Decker based on Tebow. Battle has short term value and is not a throw in. He is a hard player to gauge as far as draft picks, however. If you don't have use for him, I can't really blame you for not valuing him. All in all, I think you overpaid. I don't think now is a bad time to buy Harvin, but it is definitely not the best time to deal Locker or Decker. Locker will start at some point. His value will rise the day that is announced. Decker's value has definitely not stopped rising, as he is still running great routes and getting open. His perceived value has dipped some, with Tebow, but his actual value is still trending upward.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Decker's value is comprised mostly of potential. Battle, sure. But Decker's value will only go up.
Well, the trade allowed me to claim Marcades Lewis who I wouldn't have had room for on my roster if I hadn't made this trade. I don't view him as valuable as Locker or Battle but the guy just had a top 5 TE season a year ago so who knows.As far as notable players who just got dropped for other successful claims/free agent pickups:Earnest Graham, Steve Smith (PHI), Brandon LaFell, Donald Driver, Cecil Shorts, Jamie Harper, Jacoby Jones, and Earl Bennett.Some of these guys I certainly rank quite a bit ahead of Niles Paul (who I picked up in free agency after this trade).As far as league specifics, it's 12 teams, 24 man rosters, and probably about 9 or 10 teams are proactive as far as free agency and waivers go. That increases the quality of players you can pick up slightly. I don't really want to make this about my team though but more a general dynasty league trade strategy because a.) I think it's an interesting general topic to discuss and b.) it should be in the A.C. forum if it's about my team and league specifically
I was assuming/suggesting that he wasn't starting Decker. Harvin has had a pretty bad year so far, and you can't really trust him right now-- but I view him much higher than Decker for dynasty purposes.
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Well it was even necessarily a question in regards to Harvin and Decker. For me personally, I have Harvin a tier ahead of Decker. A similar question could be would you do the same trade if say it was Stevan Ridley instead of Eric Decker and somebody like LaGarrette Blount, Jonathan Stewart, or DeMarco Murray instead of Percy Harvin. Each of those guys I rank about one tier ahead of Ridley. Basically, a question to apply to any future trades.'jonboltz said:
My general strategy for dynasties is that whoever got the best player won the trade. Sure, there can certainly be exceptions for severe overpayments, but often I want the best player and will throw plenty of marginal talents to get it.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Fair enough. Something tells me though, that if Tebow doesn't miss Decker on two touchdowns, all of the sudden the difference between Harvin and Decker is much less (in the eyes of the masses) if any.
EBF
Footballguy
Merely making an NFL roster is an achievement, but it's especially telling when a player forces his team to exceed the number of players they were planning to keep at a given position simply because they value him so highly. This happened when Drew Bennett was a rookie. The Titans kept 6 receivers that year because Bennett was a surprise training camp revelation and they knew they couldn't cut him. We're seeing a similar thing with Tanner. The Cowboys had to feel pretty good about their RB depth entering the season with Tashard Choice, DeMarco Murray, and Felix Jones. Tanner must have been pretty impressive to force the team to keep 4 backs. So while I have no clue whether or not he'll ever be the starter there, the mere fact that they deemed him worthy of a precious roster spot tells me he's worth a roster spot in dynasty leagues. Choice is out of favor and soon to be out of contract. Neither Murray nor Jones is a proven commodity, and neither has a great injury history.'WFR said:
Would you drop Choice for Tanner at this point?
EBF
Footballguy
Choice has been in the league for years and failed to ascend up the depth chart. I would be reluctant to cut him because he has shown that he can be adequate in stopgap duty and he's the kind of player who could have modest value if he lands in a favorable situation, but I think Tanner has a brighter future in Dallas at this point.
Now that Choice is out of the picture what are the thoughts on Tanner?Cowboys waived RB Tashard Choice.
A surprising decision on the surface, but Choice's recent health woes were making it increasingly difficult to overlook his lack of production. His dismal Week 7 performance as fourth-stringer Phillip Tanner went for 34 yards on only six carries was likely the final straw. Over his past 22 games, Choice has averaged just 3.4 yards on 94 carries while contributing nothing in the passing game. Depending on how DeMarco Murray performs against the Eagles, Dallas could be looking at a backfield that uses Murray as the feature runner, Felix Jones as the third-down back and Tanner as a short-yardage specialist once Jones is over his shoulder issues.
Source: Tim MacMahon on Twitter
Oct 29 - 12:33 PM
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Anyone care to share their opinions on Eric Decker? Not to get back into the trade above, just interested in thoughts on Decker specifically.
If Tebow doesn't miss Decker on two routine passes, he would now have 7 TDs in 7 games. He is a big guy that seems to glide, even when cutting, which is a good sign. I don't recall what he clocked in at, but he seems fast enough to be a deep threat, big enough to be an end zone target, has the route running ability to get open, and the hands to tie it all together.
I didn't watch much Minnesota football, so I didn't have much of an opinion on him coming out of school, but I really like what I see from him this season.
If Tebow doesn't miss Decker on two routine passes, he would now have 7 TDs in 7 games. He is a big guy that seems to glide, even when cutting, which is a good sign. I don't recall what he clocked in at, but he seems fast enough to be a deep threat, big enough to be an end zone target, has the route running ability to get open, and the hands to tie it all together.
I didn't watch much Minnesota football, so I didn't have much of an opinion on him coming out of school, but I really like what I see from him this season.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Decker is a buy-hold. His value right now is about as low as it is going to be in the next couple years. There is no guarantee that Tebow even starts this week.
I could easily see either: 1) Denver bringing in a better WR; or 2) Thomas showing he is a better WR. Or even both. I think Decker has talent for the NFL, but I believe he has WR3 fantasy talent in a fringe WR1 situation. If you can get him as a WR3-4, then certainly a buy, but I imagine that he is viewed higher than this by his owners in most leagues. I can think of at least 25 WRs I'd rather have in a dynasty, and I believe his TD% rate is going to regress to the mean.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I agree 100%. I am looking for more longterm value/ranking.Top 15 potential, top 25 potential? What would you be willing to give to get/give him up for?
I tihnk I'd flip that list upside down. Brown has a chance of getting released at the end of the year and going elsewhere. With an offensive line. Scott/Ware could be playing sooner than most think if Bradshaw has a recurring foot problem. Jacobs looks done. Tanner has the size but who knows if he can play against NFL 1st stringers. Besides, he sits behind 2 other young RBs. Jones just doesn't look like an every down player and isn't going to beat out DMac. Rodgers is behind Turner (under contract for 2 more years) and who was the last 5'5 7/8" RB to make it big in the NFL? lewis is behind McCoy. He'll never be more than a backup with the Eagles. You'll have to stash him for 3 more years.
EBF
Footballguy
Too much emphasis on situation there. Brown failed with Indy. No reason to think he'd excel elsewhere.
I like Lewis and Rogders. I don't know when they'll get an opportunity, but they have talent.
As for short RBs, I'd point towards Maurice Jones-Drew and Darren Sproles. Wouldn't mind having them on my FF team.
I like Lewis and Rogders. I don't know when they'll get an opportunity, but they have talent.
As for short RBs, I'd point towards Maurice Jones-Drew and Darren Sproles. Wouldn't mind having them on my FF team.
Agree with EBF. Donald Brown blows, not an every down guy, ever. When did a running back need to be tall? Like the Sproles comparison with Rodgers. Just hope Atlanta can find a way to use him, and I think they will in the second half of the season and especially next year after Turner surpasses the 30-year-old mark.
squistion
Footballguy
As a Sproles owner for 5 years, I can tell you that this season is the first that I ever felt comfortable starting him. He is too small to be an every down back and when the Chargers tried to use him in that capacity, he failed miserably. He has found the ideal situation in NO but he hasn't carried the rock more than 12 times in any game and is averaging less than 6 carries per game - his real value has been in the passing game.Similarly, smaller backs like Philips and Rodgers probably need the stars to align properly for them to be the next Sproles and it has yet to been seen that they handle the lead RB duties - they might, but at this point it is an open question.I really like Tanner and have stashed him in a couple leagues - but being behind Jones and Murray, I think it will be a couple years before I see a return on my investmentTaiwan Jones intrigues me - a speed merchant who is bigger than most people think (at 6-0 and 195 lbs). With DMC out this week, he will get a few carries in relief of Bush, but I am not expecting much. However, Bush will eventually do a Michael Turner and leave the Raiders which will make Jones the main backup behind the frequently injured McFadden (although another back would be brought into the mix).Da'Rel Scott might be the most promising of the bunch. Bradshaw can't stay healthy, Jacobs is probably gone after this season and Ware so far hasn't done much with the opportunites he has been given. Scott looked great in preseason and the Giants have a good track record with recognizing RB talent in the later rounds (Jacobs being taken in the 4th and Bradshaw in the the 7th). The wildcard with Scott is whether he can get down the pass blocking to protect Eli and if he can master that he seems to have the best prospects to become a starting RB before the others.
Sanders is out for a few weeks after having his knee scoped.May give Titus Young a shot at a roster spot next.
He performed well prior to the BYE and shows some potential.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
What is the prevailing opinion on Jonathan Stewart? You'd have to think this offense is going to improve and a rising tide raises all ships. Is he still Top 20 dynasty material? I'm a McFadden owner, and I was thinking of trading him for Bush, but that seems like a huge drop in value.
Isn't Bush set to be a free agent? Maybe he'll earn a starting job elsewhere next year
az_prof
Footballguy
I disagree that Brown has "failed with Indy," and beyond that, I would argue that failing with Indy doesn't mean he isn't going to be a good NFL RB elsewhere. He has had two bad years partly because it took him a while to learn to pass block(something he is now good at), partly because of injuries plaguing his first two seasons (not good but the same could be said for Darren MacFadden), and partly because his skills are not well suited to the shotgun style, option run scheme.This year he leads the team in yards per carry: he has 4.7 ypc; Addai 4.4; and Delone Carter, 4.0. All have nearly the same number of carries. If you have watched Indy, he looks like a different back this year. He also has done well as a receiving back although Indy has not taken full advantage of that: over 2.5 seasons he has 35 receptions and has averaged 11.2 yards per reception--which is very good.In short, I am very high on him if he goes somewhere that runs a more standard Pro style run offense. I would love to see him with the Giants or maybe Seattle. And if he goes to a team that uses him more as a receiver, he can be a very good PPR player. I have always liked him but Addai was better than we thought and held him off, reducing his opportunity. Plus injuries and pass blocking hampered his development. But he would not be the first HB to emerge in year 3 or 4.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
Vincent Brown. I like Rivers to turn it around eventually and he should end up being the #2 .
What does everyone think about Peyton Hillis for next year? Buy low for next year? If Cleveland signs him, I'd think he has the job to himself.
Otherwise, take the chances that another team signs him and you get a goalline committee back at the worst?
Otherwise, take the chances that another team signs him and you get a goalline committee back at the worst?
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Is Robinson signed long term with Dallas? This could be a terrific audition for him for another team next season - guy looks very good, has always has the talent, just hasn't been able to stay healthy.
Sup_Yo
Footballguy
Cleveland won't be re-signing him. He'll move on elsewhere.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Robinson looks really good. He is a solid buy regardless of Miles/Bryant being in his way. Romo has trust issues with everyone but Witten, but he seems to have faith in Robinson. That is a good sign.
People don't put enough emphasis on situation. Just ask Stewart owners.People always point to MJD when discussing smaller RBs. That's a little like pointing to Spud Webb when discussing whether a short guy can make it in the NBA. There will always be exceptions. The chance that a guy under 5'6" and under 200 lbs will become an every down RB in the NFL is much smaller than that of a bigger guy. If J. Rodgers ran a 4.39 like MJD or a 4.47 like Sproles (instead of the 4.59 he ran), I might give him more of a chance. But, being small and not very fast won't get you too far in the NFL. As much as I subscribe to your BMI stuff, in the NFL, absolute size eventually matters.
EBF
Footballguy
Rodgers and Lewis are both very heavy for their height. Neither has great straight line speed, but both have excellent foot quickness, which is more important for a RB anyway. I wouldn't suggest that either is a lock for stardom, but they're both talented players who have already forced their way onto the field. Why not take a punt if the price is cheap? You're not going to unearth the next Ahmad Bradshaw or Darren Sproles by being close-minded.
Dave Larkin
Moderator
Most definitely. I have watched every snap of every Panthers game so far this season and I can tell you that Stewart is outplaying Williams, and it's not close. Stewart is running with great power, low pad level and ferocity, punishing defenders for attempting to get in his path. Williams is pedestrian at best, breaking off some decent runs here and there but it is obvious that he lacks the quickness he used to possess.I would be buying on Stewart - Newton will not be the primary rushing threat in this offense in the long term. Chudzinski will, in my opinion, rely on the ground game more in the coming weeks after what happened to the Panthers on Sunday against Tennessee.
