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Edge Designation Implementation (1 Viewer)

Gally

Footballguy
I am sure everyone has heard rumors of MFL instituting an "Edge" designation.  Does anybody know what that means?

I  wonder what it means for MFL to have "edge" designations.  Does that mean you will have DT, DE (for 3-4 ends), Edge (4-3 DE & 3-4 OLB), LB (4-3 LB's, and 3-4 ILB's) or will they do something else?  Do they just add the "edge" and the players remain as DE's or LB's but the 4-3/3-4 appropriate guys also get "edge" designations?  

If they go with the first scenario (Edge as it's own designation) then your league will have to decide if they make "edge" a required lineup spot or just add it to either/both LB/DL starting spots.  As a commish I will make it as flexible as possible so that nobody gets screwed.  Without knowing exactly how they are doing it I am not really sure what that means yet.  

Any thoughts or rumors?

 
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rockaction

Footballguy
I think this is a great topic. I have personally been wondering how Zealots will treat the designation if the rumors bear fruit. I'm pretty sure MFL is definitely moving to this, but I don't know how future alignments in future leagues will look, much like Gally asking. 

I mean, it makes a huge difference with respect to how I'd use blind bidding dollars down the stretch. (If I had any, I'm just talking in general terms here.)

 

Gally

Footballguy
Until I hear otherwise I'm operating under the assumption it's simply ED and IL. 
ED =  OLB, DE, ????

IL = DT, ILB; ?????

I assume you mean Edge will only apply to LB's and DE's won't be affected.  Is that what you mean?

 

inyoutees

Footballguy
Sorry, to clarify - ED, IL, LB, CB, S...IL is interior lineman. I think there will still be a few weird cases, but they will be obvious hybrid types.
This is my base case as well, though I have no evidence to support it.

For implementation, it just makes too much sense to simply rename "DE" to "Edge" and then shuffle the designations for 3-4 OLBs and DEs.  Likely the easiest way to get from point A to point B with databases, programming, displays, etc

 

Flying Elvis

Footballguy
Based on previous change implementations by MFL, I assume it will be a poorly communicated plan that forces users to scramble to understand (and vote on) multiple aspects at the 11th hour. This seems like it's been a long time in the works but I can't find anything, anywhere, from MFL detailing the concept or their plans to implement it. 

I'm hoping that commissioner tools will allow some control over the implementation to accommodate the typical timeline of voting on changes to implement the following season.

 

Dacomish

Footballguy
I'm also looking at it from a Commish standpoint, we use DL (DT/DE), LB (OLB/ILB) and DB (CB/S) so hopefully that being more genric may not be affected too much here. I'm with Gally wanting to make things as flexible as possible, but it would be nice to know early enough to have an effective talk with my league. 

 

Gally

Footballguy
I'm also looking at it from a Commish standpoint, we use DL (DT/DE), LB (OLB/ILB) and DB (CB/S) so hopefully that being more genric may not be affected too much here. I'm with Gally wanting to make things as flexible as possible, but it would be nice to know early enough to have an effective talk with my league. 
We have the same designations as you.  My initial thoughts would be to either add an Edge position as a starting spot or to allow Edge to be played at either DL or LB.  The latter would allow owners to still play their guy at the position they expected them to be in either case.   I am not sure which way would be best/fairest.

 

Dacomish

Footballguy
We have the same designations as you.  My initial thoughts would be to either add an Edge position as a starting spot or to allow Edge to be played at either DL or LB.  The latter would allow owners to still play their guy at the position they expected them to be in either case.   I am not sure which way would be best/fairest.
I had the conversation with my Asst Commish last night and we both feel we just make Edge able to play DL or LB it gives greater flexibility and will add some extra value for OLB's who put their hand in the dirt to play DL in our system. My LB's are all ILB's so it won't benefit me but it will others! 

 

Flying Elvis

Footballguy
Gally said:
So it sounds like they are just shifting rush LB's to DE and 3-4 DE to DT.  No flexibility just a straight positional switch.  I am not sure if I like that or not.  Scoring system matters as to how big of a change this really would be.  
Agreed. I like it for the value added to Rush OLB guys. However, switching 34 DE to DT will likely crush the value of existing DTs in any league that runs that position. 

Ultimately,  my leagues will discuss and vote and likely implement for 2023 to give owners proper lead time to adjust rosters.

Then there's the 2 that have a conmish that's fading in availability. Those will be interesting. 

 

Tick

Footballguy
Agreed. I like it for the value added to Rush OLB guys. However, switching 34 DE to DT will likely crush the value of existing DTs in any league that runs that position. 

Ultimately,  my leagues will discuss and vote and likely implement for 2023 to give owners proper lead time to adjust rosters.

Then there's the 2 that have a conmish that's fading in availability. Those will be interesting. 
My guess from what I read is that MFL is changing a bunch of designations.  The default will be the new scheme, and if your league wants to wait a year, they'll have to manually change to the old positions... if I were a commissioner in a league considering doing that, I'm not sure I'd want to sign up to be the guy responsible for position designations and the backlash.

 

Gally

Footballguy
My guess from what I read is that MFL is changing a bunch of designations.  The default will be the new scheme, and if your league wants to wait a year, they'll have to manually change to the old positions... if I were a commissioner in a league considering doing that, I'm not sure I'd want to sign up to be the guy responsible for position designations and the backlash.
We are a contract league so our rules state that a position designation will not change while under contract.  Essentially if you give a guy a contract as a DE he stays at DE for the duration of the contract.  Once the contract expires the player reverts to the default position.  This has worked really well so owners don't get screwed (or the benefit) with a position change half way through a contract.

For us we have also adjusted DT scoring to make that position more relevant.  Having 3-4 DE's switch to DT will have a significant impact and greatly increase the value of the guys switching from DE to DT.  We will have to discuss what we want to do with that to make sure it doesn't make those guys too dominant now.

 

Tick

Footballguy
We are a contract league so our rules state that a position designation will not change while under contract.  Essentially if you give a guy a contract as a DE he stays at DE for the duration of the contract.  Once the contract expires the player reverts to the default position.  This has worked really well so owners don't get screwed (or the benefit) with a position change half way through a contract.
I'm glad that works for you guys... from the outside it sounds messy, but it must work in practice.

 

Dacomish

Footballguy
As our league uses DL and LB it will flood the DL pool a bit but also deplete the LB pool. Some of my managers will have a bunch of DL monsters but few LB options so I don't see anyone making out alot here in that lineup system. If anything it makes the Def flex more DL centric for some. 

 

Tick

Footballguy
https://supersmashpros.football/2022/01/23/idp-draft-capital-and-hit-rates-2021-edition/
I really like this article overall, but this bit is a good example of the switchover that seems to be happening this summer across IDP: 

All the players are now grouped by their “True Position”.  This means that nominal 3-4 Outside Linebackers like T.J. Watt and Von Miller are classified as Defensive Ends, and 3-4 Defensive Ends like Leonard WIlliams become Defensive Tackles.  Sleeper is using true position already, ESPN changed to this format in 2020 and MFL is changing to true position in 2022.  

 
G

Guest

Guest
I have the feeling when Davenport updates RIGHT before season starts he will just list the rush LBers as DE's. MFL knows most of us only use them so they won't give us notice. 

I can start only 2 DE's and 4 LBers in most of my leagues so I have been trading for ILB/MLB that should start the season as starter so I can trade them when this happens and everyone freaks out.

 

lsutigers

Footballguy
Our commish utilized this website/tool https://stickyposition.herokuapp.com/ to bring our MFL in-line ahead of the eventual change (whenever it happens).  Pretty legit and I can't find any flaws with the logic (16 team, 11 D starters and taxi, so pretty deep benches).  DT/DE/LB front 7 only, CB/S not included, so no updates for box safeties that play near LOS.

 
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Tick

Footballguy
Our commish utilized this website/tool https://stickyposition.herokuapp.com/ to bring our MFL in-line ahead of the eventual change (whenever it happens).  Pretty legit and I can't find any flaws with the logic (16 team, 11 D starters and taxi, so pretty deep benches).  DT/DE/LB front 7 only, CB/S not included, so no updates for box safeties that play near LOS.
Yeah, that's Adam Tzikas's tool... he also has a cool lineup manager tool at https://stickyzboard.herokuapp.com/.

 

Young 8

Footballguy
I opened a "support ticket" on MFL and they gave me a very vague answer about this, I don't think they're gonna officially do anything.

 

SKI

Footballguy
I opened a "support ticket" on MFL and they gave me a very vague answer about this, I don't think they're gonna officially do anything.
I did as well, and I got a very explicit response:

"No, we don't have any plans to change how the IDP positions are designated. Your league can choose to change a player's position if desired by using the Setup > Players And Rosters > Change Player Position screen to move DE's to LB or vice versa, for example."

 

Enderdog

Footballguy
Maybe FantasySharks will take care of it for MFL.  It's too much guesswork as it is now.  The Chargers are mostly a 3-4, but Bosa is always listed as a DE.   Does Mack get listed as a DE or does he stay a LB like he was in Chicago, even though they play the same position in LA?  If he does remain a LB do they make Bosa a LB too?

 

rockaction

Footballguy
This really sort of affects how I go about drafting rookies. I have four second round picks. I'd like to know if we're moving to EDGE or not. Davenport seems to want to. MFL should probably get with it and just do so. That's my two cents. 

 

Riddick02

Footballguy
This really sort of affects how I go about drafting rookies. I have four second round picks. I'd like to know if we're moving to EDGE or not. Davenport seems to want to. MFL should probably get with it and just do so. That's my two cents. 
They needed to do it in Feb/Mar if they were going to.  My dynasty leagues are already deep into activity now with auction style free agency done and rookie drafts in 2 weeks.  Think the ship is sailed for the year. 

 

Tick

Footballguy
We don't have plans to make overall changes to the classification of players. We do have regular off-season player position updates (typically once a month), so those will still happen. But it would be up to your league to decide if you want to make these types of player position changes across the board in your league.
MFL’s response when I asked.

 

Gally

Footballguy
Well, I guess I know who I'm dropping to make room for rookie drafts on MFL... Quinn, Golden, Barrett, Christian Jones, Von Miller, Matt Judon, Rashan Gary.
Not necessarily in big play scoring leagues.  (I know you know that but some others reading might not)

 

tripp

Footballguy
Well, I guess I know who I'm dropping to make room for rookie drafts on MFL... Quinn, Golden, Barrett, Christian Jones, Von Miller, Matt Judon, Rashan Gary.
RE: Von Miller. When Rotoworld did depth charts, we could reliably predict that he'd be changed to DE now that he's on a defense with 4-3 architecture. Now? Who flippin' knows!?

 

Hankmoody

Footballguy
Not sure why we would expect MFL to rescue anything, they have always given us the "we get our designations from X external source" copout in the past.  What I thought I read, and why I jumped on a bunch of them last year, was that that external source (Fantasy Sharks) was intending to just list them all as DE so that MFL's import would catch it that way.  Do we know anything about that?  Miller already is but I don't see any significant others (Mack should at least, they are 4-3 base).

 

Tick

Footballguy
Not sure why we would expect MFL to rescue anything, they have always given us the "we get our designations from X external source" copout in the past.  What I thought I read, and why I jumped on a bunch of them last year, was that that external source (Fantasy Sharks) was intending to just list them all as DE so that MFL's import would catch it that way.  Do we know anything about that?  Miller already is but I don't see any significant others (Mack should at least, they are 4-3 base).
A few posts up, I linked a twitter discussion with Gary Davenport, the IDP guy at Sharks (who also just joined the FBG staff).  We have to read between the lines a bit, but he wants to make the wholesale change, and MFL doesn't want him to because everyone whines so much and they just don't want to deal with it.

 

Riddick02

Footballguy
Well luckily the market may start balancing it out on its own for tackle heavy.  As we continue to see the NFL go away from multiple LB usage, those leagues that are starting 3+ are going to have to shift more and more to using those "edge" type rushers.  The market is just so considerably thin right now, and I'm eyeing those guys more and more in the hopes to just have somebody that puts up some points in the spot. 

 

Hankmoody

Footballguy
A few posts up, I linked a twitter discussion with Gary Davenport, the IDP guy at Sharks (who also just joined the FBG staff).  We have to read between the lines a bit, but he wants to make the wholesale change, and MFL doesn't want him to because everyone whines so much and they just don't want to deal with it.
Right, but that was about MFL making changes.  That's my point, they never will.  The change needs to be at their source which is FantasySharks.

 

Tecmo

Footballguy
I thought MFL uses Rotoworld for their position designations....   Go to Rotoworld depth charts and you will see the EDGE designations

 

Tick

Footballguy
I have a team with Maxx Crosby and Josh Allen as my only good DEs. It just got gutted.

Traded Joey Bosa for Danielle Hunter last season because I thought Bosa might get the LB designation.

I just can’t get these changes to make sense in my head. If they weren’t moving to EDGE because everyone would complain, how do they change four top-10 DEs to LBs and not expect screaming?

 

Dacomish

Footballguy
I have a team with Maxx Crosby and Josh Allen as my only good DEs. It just got gutted.

Traded Joey Bosa for Danielle Hunter last season because I thought Bosa might get the LB designation.

I just can’t get these changes to make sense in my head. If they weren’t moving to EDGE because everyone would complain, how do they change four top-10 DEs to LBs and not expect screaming?
I have Hunter too and after 2 years of holding him through injury its very frustrating to see his value get nerfed like that.

The Crosby owner also had Von Miller so at least he didn't lose a roster spot per say, although not exactly a great tradeoff..

 

MAC_32

Footballguy
This is why we adopted true position in our MFL leagues this offseason. I strongly recommend everyone that stays on the platform do the same. 

 

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