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Edge TD or not? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter krameruf
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Diamond One
Footballguy
I was actually going to ask the same question. Didn't see the game & not a lot of help from the AZ / STL game thread. Anyone care to shed some light on this?
Otis
Footballguy
There's no way he CAN'T have gotten credit for that TD.
After the ball rolled out of his hands and into the end zone, it was picked up by someone on the defense and he layed on the ground with it. A Cardinal player then touched him and subsequently ripped it out of his hands -- which didn't matter, since he was already down. So, if Edge didn't get the touchdown, then it was a fumble recovered by the defense.
So, since they ruled it a TD, it has to be credited to Edge.
So bizarre.
After the ball rolled out of his hands and into the end zone, it was picked up by someone on the defense and he layed on the ground with it. A Cardinal player then touched him and subsequently ripped it out of his hands -- which didn't matter, since he was already down. So, if Edge didn't get the touchdown, then it was a fumble recovered by the defense.
So, since they ruled it a TD, it has to be credited to Edge.
So bizarre.
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Diamond One
Footballguy
From the gamebook on NFL.com as of now --2-6-SL 6 (3:48) E.James right guard to SL 1 for 5 yards (W.Witherspoon). FUMBLES (W.Witherspoon), recovered by ARZ-R.Wells at SL -5. R13TOUCHDOWN.Play Challenged by SL and Upheld. (Timeout #1 at 03:32.)
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Why do you seem so certain?
CA_7
Footballguy
Because he probably owns Edge in multiple leagues
Team
Footballguy
Because I watched the game and saw the play.
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Team
Footballguy
James scored on a 5-yard run, lunging with the ball in with one hand and fumbling into the end zone after apparently getting stopped a yard short. Officials first ruled that Cardinals lineman Reggie Wells had recovered a fumble in the end zone, wresting it away from St. Louis cornerback Jonathan Wade.
Rams coach Scott Linehan challenged the play, which was later reversed to a James touchdown.
AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service
Copyright 2006-2007, The Associated Press, All Rights Reserved
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/gamecenter/r...0071007_ARI@STL
Rams coach Scott Linehan challenged the play, which was later reversed to a James touchdown.
AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service
Copyright 2006-2007, The Associated Press, All Rights Reserved
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/gamecenter/r...0071007_ARI@STL
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Cool. I can always use the additional 6 points. Hope CBS Sportsline catches it soon.
Sputnikv8
Footballguy
CBS gets its #'s from nfl.com. So, nfl.com is where it needs updated.
stugnut
Footballguy
During the game the announcers said that NFL league headquarters (whatever that is) had reviewed the play and they determined that it was an Edge fumble recovered by the offense in the endzone for a TD. This was after the TD had been taken away from James.
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Diamond One
Footballguy
Again, from NFL.com -- ( http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/digestofrules ):
Fumble
1. The distinction between a fumble and a muff should be kept in mind in considering rules about fumbles. A fumble is the loss of player possession of the ball. A muff is the touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.
2. A fumble may be advanced by any player on either team regardless of whether recovered before or after ball hits the ground.
3. A fumble that goes forward and out of bounds will return to the fumbling team at the spot of the fumble unless the ball goes out of bounds in the opponent’s end zone. In this case, it is a touchback.
4. On a play from scrimmage, if an offensive player fumbles anywhere on the field during fourth down, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If any player fumbles after the two-minute warning in a half, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If recovered by any other offensive player, the ball is dead at the spot of the fumble unless it is recovered behind the spot of the fumble. In that case, the ball is dead at the spot of recovery. Any defensive player may recover and/or advance any fumble at any time.
5. A muffed hand-to-hand snap from center is treated as a fumble.
Fumble
1. The distinction between a fumble and a muff should be kept in mind in considering rules about fumbles. A fumble is the loss of player possession of the ball. A muff is the touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain possession.
2. A fumble may be advanced by any player on either team regardless of whether recovered before or after ball hits the ground.
3. A fumble that goes forward and out of bounds will return to the fumbling team at the spot of the fumble unless the ball goes out of bounds in the opponent’s end zone. In this case, it is a touchback.
4. On a play from scrimmage, if an offensive player fumbles anywhere on the field during fourth down, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If any player fumbles after the two-minute warning in a half, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If recovered by any other offensive player, the ball is dead at the spot of the fumble unless it is recovered behind the spot of the fumble. In that case, the ball is dead at the spot of recovery. Any defensive player may recover and/or advance any fumble at any time.
5. A muffed hand-to-hand snap from center is treated as a fumble.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
You know, if you click the Gamecenter tab in that link, the TD still says "Reggie Wells, 0 Yd fumble return."
dancingbones
Footballguy
From NFL.com play by play
Team
Footballguy
Yep. Noticed that.
I'm hoping it stays on Wells as I'm playing against Edge, but I don't see how it does.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
NFL.com and CBS Gamecenters both have it as a fumble recovery by Wells for a TD.
As of now, there is no reason to think it would be scored any other way.
As of now, there is no reason to think it would be scored any other way.
I thought that changed this year when nfl.com dumped CBS and started doing it's own live updates.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I hope it stands. I played Reggie Wells over Jamal Lewis on a hunch.
Diamond One
Footballguy
Just for grins here, let's say that it is indeed a Edge TD (AGAIN, SPECULATION)... When does the NFL review and update plays like this? Monday morning??
Otis
Footballguy
Other than that, to those of us who watched the game, that result is impossible.
Why? It wasn't 4th down, it wasn't inside of two minutes, thus a fumble can be advanced. Those are the rules.I did not see the game, but it looks like a fumble to me from the NFL.com replay.
Otis
Footballguy
As I tried to explain above, after the ball came out of Edge's hands it rolled further into the end zone and one of the Rams players grabbed it and was laying on the ground with it. As he was laying there, a Cardinal jumps on top of him. He should have been down at that point if it were a fumble, and it would have been a lost fumble and change of possession. However, Wells thereafter ripped it out of his hands. It just seemed to me like the scorekeeper or whomever misinterpreted the call by the refs, because the only way that series of events could have been ruled a touchdown -- before the ball was in the possession of the Rams and downed -- would be if Edge actually got it into the end zone.
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From what I saw the ball was coming out as he crossed the plane. I did not see any evidence in replay that showed clearly where the ball came out. You may be stuck with the Wells recovery.
ScoobyDoo
Footballguy
Why are you arguing things that don't exist as far as the officials on the field are concerned? The officials on the field clearly called it a fumble and clearly called it a recovery by Arizona. Maybe they screwed up on the initial fumble, maybe they screwed up not giving it to St. Louis, but I fail to see how after the game is over the NFL can change the scoring to something that DOES NOT include a fumble when clearly one was called and reviewed on the field.
Tony Jabroni
Footballguy
Yahoo updates everything on Tuesday or Wednesday. This could be tricky. I recall Mcnabb last year getting credited for a 'goofy' TD on a pass/lateral later in the week.
From play-by-play.
From box score There's going to have to be a clarification somewhere. I'm guessing the scoring issue lies in that the box score does not list it as an Edge TD.ETA:
This is from the game recap. I'm assuming it will be ruled an Edge TD and scores will be updated.
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kutta
Footballguy
I was at the game and saw it a few times on the big screen at the stadium. It looked to us that the St. Louis guy never had possession of the ball, and Wells eventually came up with it.
ScoobyDoo
Footballguy
AGAIN.How can they rule it an Edge TD when the officials ruled on the field and after the review that THERE WAS A FUMBLE??? They just going to erase the fumble? I don't think so.
G
General Tso
Guest
You are mistakenly assuming that the refs viewed it as you did - that Rams guy "recovered" the fumble. yeah, if in fact the Rams guy had possession and THEN the ball was ripped out by Wells, it would have been a touchback. But the refs didn't view it that way. They viewed it as still in play when Wells recovered it. The call was reviewed and upheld.No Edge TD. Sorry.
A
awesomeness
Guest
if James did fumble, why wasnt it a touchback when the STL player picked it up in the endzone?
ScoobyDoo
Footballguy
LOLHave you read the thread? The officials apparently did not believe he "posessed" the ball.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
:ding:
I dont know - just reporting what I've read and seen. Whatever the NFL rules is what FF will rule - I'm sure we'll get some clarification over the next day or so. A lot of people seem to be confused.
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The Man With No Name
Footballguy
The NFL doesn't. Elias Sports Bureau does.
A
awesomeness
Guest
i only saw a highlight, but from what i saw he was lying down on the ball for a good couple of seconds with teammates all around...
Otis
Footballguy
When did the officials on the field "clearly" call anything a fumble? If anything was "clear," the announcers and viewers would have not have been so confused. All I saw was that they called it a touchdown. I didn't see any ruling as to how the TD was scored, and the announcers were equally unsure.
Otis
Footballguy
WHEN DID THE OFFICIALS RULE IT A FUMBLE??That's the point here, chach. Nobody saw that. They called a touchdown and thereafter said the ruling on the field stood. We know there was a touchdown -- I just didn't see any clarification regarding who scored it. That's why the play-by-play and box score are inconsistent. It's not nearly as "clear" as you are suggesting. Did you watch the game??
ScoobyDoo
Footballguy
NFL play-by-play has this.(3:48) 32-E.James right guard to STL 1 for 5 yards (51-W.Witherspoon). FUMBLES (51-W.Witherspoon), recovered by ARI-74-R.Wells at STL -5. TOUCHDOWN. Play Challenged by STL and Upheld. (Timeout #1 at 03:32.)
That clearly says fumble to me. If there were no fumble they would have said so during the review.
Otis
Footballguy
Thank you.
Otis
Footballguy
I'm not "mistakenly assuming" anything. I'm simply saying that the officials gave no clarification as far as I or the announcers could tell. I wonder how many people in this thread actually watched the game...
Otis
Footballguy
Thank you.
ScoobyDoo
Footballguy
The play by play.
(3:48) 32-E.James right guard to STL 1 for 5 yards (51-W.Witherspoon). FUMBLES (51-W.Witherspoon), recovered by ARI-74-R.Wells at STL -5. TOUCHDOWN. Play Challenged by STL and Upheld. (Timeout #1 at 03:32.)
The box score.
Reggie Wells, 0 yd (Neil Rackers kick is good), 3:32. Drive: 10 plays, 78 yards in 4:22
Looks dang consistent to me. You really think they're just going to erase the fumble?
(3:48) 32-E.James right guard to STL 1 for 5 yards (51-W.Witherspoon). FUMBLES (51-W.Witherspoon), recovered by ARI-74-R.Wells at STL -5. TOUCHDOWN. Play Challenged by STL and Upheld. (Timeout #1 at 03:32.)
The box score.
Reggie Wells, 0 yd (Neil Rackers kick is good), 3:32. Drive: 10 plays, 78 yards in 4:22
Looks dang consistent to me. You really think they're just going to erase the fumble?
Otis
Footballguy
Why is that?All they had to do was confirm that the play resulted in a TD, and that's what they did. Ultimately the coaches don't care -- the football result is the same. The refs didn't bother to clarify for the fantasy nerds.
Because the STL player did not have possession.
Otis
Footballguy
I'm not asking anyone to "erase" anything. I just don't know what the ruling was and I don't know if the boxscore and/or play-by-play accurately reflect what happens. The officials were not entirely clear, and that's why the TD wasn't given to Edge at first, and then a few minutes later was, and then a few minutes later wasn't again. People were confused. I'm sorry if you can't accept that.Did you watch the game?
Otis
Footballguy
Or because there was already a touchdown and it was a dead ball.
ScoobyDoo
Footballguy
As I have shown. The play-by-play and the box score are consistent.
